Too many assists as ADC

Woook3r·Dec 27, 2014·2 votes·2,280 views

Hey,

I picked up draven a few days ago, I really like him I just have trouble in that I get too many assists if I dont snowball in lane. At one point in my last game i was 3/4/11 and this really hurt me because I didnt have enough gold to buy bfs and the enemy is buying armor ect. I am falling off.

Why is it that I cant get these kills, and also, is there a way to make my screen wider? I feel like I have more room on other ppl's screens when i play on there computers. I want to zoom out more. When I am on the back line I cant see the enemy.

46 Comments

Sirin GioroDec 27, 20144 votes

Kill secured by support > enemy bot lane running away and survive

CS > kills Laning phase is ok if it's peaceful, but it's better if you get kills and stomp your lane because that's how Draven's lane is supposed to be The most important thing for an ADC is to farm Kills are secondary, and it depends on your support whether you'll be getting the kills or not You can also make solo plays but don't try to 1v2 enemy bot lane like our typical ADC If your support is not doing anything then hug tower and farm under tower Also get heal instead of barrier unless you're laning against Tristana Sometimes it's better to let your team get the kills, so that the enemy team would think that everyone on your team is equally fed, better than "Focus Draven, he's fed as fuk", then you die = your team loses teamfight

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

Taking heal helped somewhat. I get flamed for it tho.

I dont know what barrier has to do with trystana specifically though.

BrofessorFDec 28, 20142 votes

barrier is better than heal against tristana in lane generally because her DoT applies grievous wounds and reduces the heal amount by 50% like ignite

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

Sirin GioroDec 29, 20141 votes

{quoted}

Taking heal helped somewhat. I get flamed for it tho.

I dont know what barrier has to do with trystana specifically though.

Few patches ago, heal got buffed a little (cause now Summoner Heal heals your nearest ally too, granting both of you movement speed) Tristana's E applies grievous wounds (decreasing enemy health regen), that's why Barrier is best against ignite/grievous wounds But fk Tristana, right? So even though I'm laning against Tristana, I still get heal. No idea why someone would be flaming at you for getting Heal. LOL

ChexMexDec 28, 20142 votes

OP you are asking for help on a thread then trying to argue with me hint: probably not a good idea

this is a warning, you're going to look really bad or really smart depending on your

solo queue rank
how many people you've coached
how many diamond accounts you have
how many in game guides people approve that you wrote
how many years you spent on league

i suggest you take my advice and shush.

Edit one: Also note your few days of experience versus my years worth

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

Who are you to warn me? Most of your posts dont even address the first post. Seriously. I didnt ask you for a build. I didnt ask you about my role as adc. I asked you how to scale better by finishing kills rather than letting an already fed pantheon finish it with his e.

For instance. If kassadin gets fed, I am a huge target for him and being a person who gets kills and assists, I am big gold for him. If i am more fed, Ill have the damage to sustain for longer. I CAN kill a fed kassadin. I did it in the same game he fed off of me. I just need BT, IE Last Whisper and elixer of wrath.

Woook3rDec 27, 20141 votes

I dont mind that teammates get kills. Kat or kassadin fed is great and Its ok when support finishes one I coulnt. But idk. a couple more kills would have gotten me a bfs at a very important juncture. After you get BT the next thing is to increase damage to up your sustain? Then I go for phantom dancer for the qol (catching axes).

I think a big part was that I just figured out that changing my in game resolution widens my screen. Before, I couldnt even see the boundary of my own fog of war. Now when I have an ally nearby, I actually benifit from the increased vision and I am not ever running up to catch sight of the enemy front line. That was happening and I would still get focused. Yes I would get a kill for my teammates, but I wold also die soon after. due to stuns ect.

I can be a little safer now and still know whats going on.

ChexMexDec 27, 20141 votes

You're missing the point of ADC. You aren't the batman of the game.

You are the saboteur whose primary focus is to destroy towers and inhibitors while dealing sustained AD to enemy champions you can reach, regardless of whom it is.

You getting fed does not make your life any easier, just your teammate's a lot harder. They have to keep a 1500~2500 health champion alive from other champs that do that much damage in 1-3 hits.

Assists generate a handsome amount of gold, so getting 10+ of them is a really good thing.

Build for draven

item 3031 item 3006 item 3087 item 3035 item 3072 item 3026 OR item 3102 OR item 3022 .

Woook3rDec 27, 20141 votes

Phantom dancer is better than shiv.

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

Did i ask for a fucking build? Did I say i thought i was batman? If i look at the probuilds site do i see winning acd with this disparaty between kills and assists?

FUCK NO.

You suck at answering questions.

Woook3rDec 27, 20141 votes

Then why dont we just have yi on every team in bot lane? he takes towers faster than most adc's

ChexMexDec 27, 20141 votes

PD = Late game power, 500g? more for like 10% more as and some crit lol Shivv= Basically PD but stronger unique passive.

Woook3rDec 27, 20141 votes

not if you have to drop an axe. I do it because it helps me chase and keep axes up. I stand in minion waves to avoid skill shots. Its hard to catch axes in the mosh pit ;)

ChexMexDec 27, 20141 votes

There's a reason why Phantom Dancer isn't ever on 'top items built' It's because Shivv is arguably more cost efficient.

ChexMexDec 27, 20141 votes

It takes skill to play as Draven, that's just one of the things you need to learn to improve.

Woook3rDec 27, 20142 votes

Everyone drops axes bud, but sometimes if it lands in a pile of minions and you are low on mana and you need THAT axe...then you want PD.

Anyway, IE is the most often built item, but BT is MUCH BETTER and the win rate being ~= the purchase rate shows that its the best item....yet it isn't picked the most. My point being, if people pick IE over BT then people don't need to be taken as an authority on Draven.

Do you realize that "There's a reason why Phantom Dancer isn't ever on 'top items built" is a fallacious argument? It is.

Its got in game stats that every ADC uses, but it actually synergizes with Dravens kit! Who else gets the same benefit from that passive? If you were ever going to buy it this is when you buy it.

Everyone drops axes. People who buy PD drop less.

big boi edriDec 28, 20141 votes

http://www.probuilds.net/champions/Draven

A lot of pro players take IE over BT in many situations (sometimes BT first though), and SS over PD the majority of the time. They probably don't know as much as you though.

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

AAAAND in 13 out of 20 games i see, BT is built before IE, judging by the order of item slots. SS is built in a grand total of 2 out of 20.

Unless you think the pro's waste time rearranging their item slot so that BT is in a lower slot than IE.

Were you trying to prove my point?

big boi edriDec 28, 20141 votes

You have to actually click the game to see the build order. Its usually IE first if you look into it. In regards to SS being built 2/20 times, you may want to check back as the data on the site is primarily one person playing him. Most of the time you can see quite a few people using the Champion and get a better idea. For instance, if you look at the "different" people that played him, you will see SS/Ghost Blade taken as well.

If you look further into the build orders where BT was taken first you can usually see that they were forced to back multiple times early in the game. I'm assuming they take BT when they are losing lane and need the dueling power it offers through 20% life steal? Not sure, I'm not the best at this game myself.

I've also noticed a lot of time they can only afford item 1037 on first back which could be another reason I.E. is better. Building up to it gives you a lot more fire power if you can't afford the BF sword first back. Seems to happen a lot in pro games (happens to me too).

Like I said though, I'm not an "elitist", in fact I'm only in Silver. In order to learn though, I try to humble myself and realize that pretty much everyone Gold+ knows more than me. When someone tells me something, I listen and don't jump on the defensive with my l33t knowledge of this game, because I don't have it.

If I think something someone told me sounds fishy though, I do like to double check things. For instance, you think IE before BT sounds fishy. If you take the time to go through this website and look at everyone that plays Draven (not just Arrow, even though Arrow reinforces this in his build orders), you will see IE is the majority of the time taken over BT. Not only Draven, but most ADC's that don't rely on heavy AS to do their job take it first (ex: I think Vayne is different, I see a lot of BoTK first on her). There are however a few times where I actually did see BT taken first. As I stated before, maybe its the dueling power in a losing lane that is needed, I'm not positive.

At any rate, like I said I'm not in here trying to hound you about it. Just showing you facts through pro plays that Vayne Hentai is in fact correct in his statements towards you. Also that you should maybe try to be a bit more humble and listen to these players that are much better and more experienced than us. You may do great with Draven in unranked/Bronze, but I doubt that would carry over into a Gold/Plat/Diamond game (Where the people giving advice you shoot down play).

In reference to your question on making the screen wider, you just need a better monitor. I play on 1920x1080 and can see everything, but I also use my laptop sometimes (1377x768?) and can't see as much. Just a hardware draw back, if you see some type of program that says it will let you zoom out further, that is a hack. They had those in SC2 "Zoom Hacks" and people were quickly banned for them, so I'd recommend staying away from there :P

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

"I've also noticed a lot of time they can only afford pick axe on first back which could be another reason I.E. is better. Building up to it gives you a lot more fire power if you can't afford the BF sword first back. Seems to happen a lot in pro games (happens to me too)."

This is one of the things I was saying. Sometimes its about what you can afford not what is better. For my part, I go for vampiric scepter. It lets me make mistakes in trades and keep farming.

Not using zoom hacks. Just changed to a better standard resolution. It helped a LOT. Thank you.

I like phantom dancer because its passive helps me and synergises with draven. It is only 300 gold more expensive. It lets me stand around minions so I dont have to dodge skill shots. It also lets me make mistakes without costing the team.

I am prickly because the build i choose is actually better for me. Im not that good at dodging blitz hooks. Sometimes my support goes in randomly and I loose hp saving him. Thats why BT and PD are really good for me.

NOW, if you dont just look at PRO builds (and god knows they might as well be playing an entirely different game compared to me) BT's pick rate is = BT's win rate. IE's pick rate is >>>>> IE's win rate.

That would mean that in my leagues, against the strats and players i face, BT is stronger.

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

AAAAND in 13 out of 20 games i see, BT is built before IE, judging by the order of item slots. SS is built in a grand total of 2 out of 20.

Unless you think the pro's waste time rearranging their item slot so that BT is in a lower slot than IE.

Were you trying to prove my point? My point was that I.E. is picked on average (not just pro's) 90% of the time. Bt is picked 63%. When BT is picked it wins 60% of those games where it is picked. Those two numbers are almost equal.

The pick rates are almost equal in pro. Thats a different situation tho. By my investigation (not thorough admittedly) it looks like they are usually built:

TOGETHER with BT built first

IE is built by itself. And the game ends waaay before full build.

That is why it appears to be a preferred pick. So the numbers show that IE is built more when really, BT is either picked first because it is better, or IE is picked just before the game ends. Because who needs sustain when the first inhib is down at 20 min.

So it is BT first or not at all.

You cant show me a full build where IE was picked before BT. 2)Everyone is buying mana pots or they are buying essence reaver====Dropping axes. Spending mana to spen them back up. 3)Im getting pissed bc people assume I suck w Draven bc I am new.
Everyone drops axes. Hence the essence reaver and the Blue Pots.

SukishooDec 28, 20141 votes

item 3031 is the damage & crit that you WANT and NEED first as an ADC. item 3072 is okay, but shouldn't be your top priority. As many have said is what you will see most people get in a good game. Only if they are behind then sure is efficient but is always better. Especially on Draven you want item 3031 as fast as possible.

As an ADC your job is to output pure damage, and an 1 item 3031 is where that damage comes from.

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

BT is what gives me sustain and allows me to pressure towers. IE might give you kills people seem to think that towers are more important than kills.

My job is apparently to take towers.

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

Can you crit a tower?

big boi edriDec 28, 20141 votes

Not that I know of. There used to be a bug on Graves though where you could smoke screen the tower and be able to, but its probably been patched by now.

SukishooDec 28, 20141 votes

Yes, Towers are very important, but you don't need sustain in order to take them. IE gives you more damage and allows you to take them faster. The pressure comes from the damage that you have so that you can keep your opponents out of the lane, and IE is still far more damage than BT.

Only ADCs that rush a type of sustain anyway are those that work off of high attack speed such as Vayne Lucian KogMaw Twitch and it's usually item 3153

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

IE does not let you take towers faster. You get the same ad from BT as IE. I dont know what you are talking about. IE has no impact vs a tower. Sustain will keep you in the field longer, you dont need to base. This will allow you to pressure towers better. IE gives you a crit 25% of the time. A critical strike on draven does NOT proc on spinning axe damage. It does not increase his damage output by the same ammount as other adc's. Every attack with spining axe is like a 185% dmg critical. A critical strike with spinning axe is a 285% damage. Thats a ~50% increase. For any other adc the percent increase is 100%. Therefore, critical chance is ~50% as effective on draven. You dont need the crit cause you already have a garrunteed "crit" with the spinning axe.

High attack speed works with draven. If you have high AS you get a really strong burst. Two spinning axes in hand plus a third you can proc if you ability is on cooldown. Thats roughly 2100 base damage without any criticals.

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

This thread is about finishing kills. Not about PD. Not about how good you all are compared to me. Not about Static Shiv. Not about dropping axes.

I get ks'd a lot. It puts me behind. I have to compete with full build kassadins. I need to be fed because kassadin will feed of of me. I get a lot of assists and give a lot of gold when i die.

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

Btw. The best advice, for all you elitists out there would be:

Make sure your screen is on the best resolution, allowing you to see the whole teamfight at once. That way you can have better positioning through a fight. You wont have to lay down damage then quickly kite backwards while panth steals a kill. You can wait for him to engage and pick up kills as needed.

Because that is what helped. Not some bs about Static shiv or the proper build. How about you ask questions too? Like, well can you give me some examples? Instead you all assumed I had trouble keeping axes up and didnt know i was supposed to take towers. I stay after kills to take towers. I usually take the first bot lane tower. You also gave me a build? Did I ask for a build?

ChexMexDec 28, 20141 votes

let me chop down your pride and fall in your elo

ChexMexDec 28, 20141 votes

since you don't want to take my advice and anyone reading this will disprove of this ENTIRE argument this is going to be necro'd

don't bother posting any more "help me" threads if you just plan on being a douche.

Woook3rDec 28, 20142 votes

Try addressing the actual post next time. You will sound less like a know it all. I said I had trouble finishing kills. I am interested in finishing kills. I am not interested in a build. I do not have a problem with the way I like to build draven. I go for lifesteal so i can farm and pressure towers while bot lanes go aggro on me and my support.

I wanted to know how to do better in teamfights. Dont bother posting in anymore help me threads if you cant pay attention to the actual issue.

RoaranorDec 28, 20141 votes

How does Draven fall off? o_o One of the highest potential damage outputs as an ADC. Secondly, there's no such thing as too many assists. Farming is your priority, kill gold is extra and shouldn't be depended on. Finally, yes you can wait to pick up the kill, but if you have to stop dishing out consistent dmg just to try and get some gold, then that kinda defeats the purpose. Check end game dmg, not pretty kda

FYI BT is a comfort pick for players who aren't actual Draven mains or if you're behind/losing lane (this includes "pro players") And Shiv > PD except in rare situations, hence why it's getting buffed.

/thread

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

He falls off when kassadin and two others on the enemy team are at full build.

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

Honestly, what am i supposed to do in a situation where kassadin has ~4 items at 20 minutes? I cant stay in lane and farm.

ChexMexDec 29, 20141 votes

[{quoted}](name=CC Kero,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=bAo5IEwB,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2014-12-28T04:33:36.653+0000)

How does Draven fall off? o_o One of the highest potential damage outputs as an ADC. Secondly, there's no such thing as too many assists. Farming is your priority, kill gold is extra and shouldn't be depended on. Finally, yes you can wait to pick up the kill, but if you have to stop dishing out consistent dmg just to try and get some gold, then that kinda defeats the purpose. Check end game dmg, not pretty kda

FYI BT is a comfort pick for players who aren't actual Draven mains or if you're behind/losing lane (this includes "pro players") And Shiv > PD except in rare situations, hence why it's getting buffed.

/thread

Draven falls off because his short range and his predictability become his major handicaps later on. His range is 550~ and there's an obvious spot where axes land, most of the time you have to let them go because there will be a hook flying that way.

RaemnantDec 28, 20141 votes

I think my input in this topic will have to be that in low elos, too many people focus solely on their KDA, and want all the kills to make themselves feel good. You will have jungles that come in to gank your lane when you're down 2 kills, and kill both of your low health lane opponents after you've harassed them down to that point. You need to feed the carries, but people don't understand this, they just want to get fed, be pro, and hoist all you guys on their backs while they carry you as a tank and 1v5 the enemy team, causing you to lose the match. Its always best to spread out the kills, however. Dont expect to have all/most of the kills. A good team will have a nice spread of gold, not just one person fed

Edit: I also looked at your match history. Youre dying WAY too much, so maybe you can get those kills because youre not there to actually do your roll, because you get picked off and get tossed out of the fight too soon. Stay in the back, only go in when your other team mates initiate, and only attack the safest person you can. It is not your job to go in and assassinate their squishies, youre there to only do damage. Never travel into unwarded areas alone, in case your deaths are caused by getting ambushed and caught out

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

I die too much because I follow my teammates into bad situations.

Yes this sometimes happens. A player will just wait for me to DIE then go all in on the enemy I jut laid waste to. Then I have a nice assist to take back to shop. As draven, with a huge speed boost, I sometimes get away. So My assists are usually higher than my deaths.

Overall, the biggest problem was that I would approach the front lines to get sight of the enemy in a team fight. I changed the resolution and now i can see the enemy without putting myself in danger. Problem solved. Thank you for actually addressing the original post.

Also, does my match history tell you that I take a lot of towers? I never base immediately after a team fight? I usually take a tower, sometimes take dragon. I have a lot of deaths because when my teamates ignore my pings to leave, I stay with them and try and do some damage to the next tower with them.

ChexMexDec 28, 20141 votes

The original question was 'how can i get these kills' I answered with your job isn't to get the kills in the first place and to fix your build to receive more kills and do more damage...

Understand what you wrote before you QQ

Woook3rDec 28, 20141 votes

You answered by telling me it was a stupid question. Um. Thats actually not an answer. Its a comment and not a helpful one.

ChexMexDec 29, 20141 votes

You're missing the point of ADC. You aren't the batman of the game.

I never said that. I said you're missing the point of the role you play and you should look at it more as a team player type of role. Don't put words in my mouth