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Don't use this sion ult mechanic or you'll get banned!

UrSenpai·3/20/2015, 5:42:41 AM·400 votes·105,684 views

My S2S Trent account was banned for "exploits" At first I thought it was because I haven't verified my account for so long. pics about my permanet suspension:

http://i.imgur.com/7IiWm8O.jpg http://i.imgur.com/aopOPC0.png http://i.imgur.com/pMju2Jr.png http://i.imgur.com/eJP8B0x.png http://i.imgur.com/4XqTiAi.png

I do not use scripts nor was I aware of this being an exploit. I wouldn't risk it due to the huge amount of money and time I spent on this account. I assure you all that Riot doesn't have proof for me using scripts, because you cant have proof for something that someone didn't do, so don't expect any if your asking riot, also I don't know how to prove that I don't do scripts. I can say however that I wouldn't pay money on an account I would script with, since there's a high chance of getting banned.

I truly believe this was an unfair ban, and bans like these should at least have a warning. If they did give me a warning I literally would've taken the "hold" button (h) off my key bindings so I could never do this again. I mention the problem being solved in a small claims court. I only told them this so they wouldn't push me to the side and would send someone higher in authority to deal with this mistake.

Thank you Wookieecookie for looking into the issue and unbanning me. I appreciate it.

390 Comments

RiotWookieeCookie3/20/2015, 7:56:36 PM162 votes

A while back there were a few things going on with Sion's Ult which could be exploited.

One of these methods was like the video you linked, where you could spam the "h" button and jitter Sion's Ult. The other method involved third party scripts and hacks to manipulate Sion's ult.

Our system incorrectly identified you for the latter, and unfortunately the notes left on your account were not enough for our PS Specialists to distinguish between the two.

I deep dived into your games to double check and have released the account. Long term next steps we're going to take a look at the notes left on accounts to better empower specialists with the judgement necessary to resolve these quicker.

I do want to take the time though to note that spamming "h" to jitter Sion's Ult was not intended behavior or an expression of good Sion mechanics. I've poked around and I do believe this unintended interaction was removed with the last patch.

But regardless of whether it was unintended or not it's on us to fix or disable the champion. Especially due to how easy it was to duplicate with only the vanilla LoL client. If we have no indication that the unintended behavior was done consistently and with the intent to create an unfair advantage it's not right for us to maintain a ban on a player's account for using it.

I say this, because there may be points in the future where a bug or unintended interaction is accidentally added to the game which could provide an unfair advantage to players. We do reserve the right to permanently ban any player who exploits this interaction to their advantage. An example of that could be the ZZ'rot's portal bug back in January. Were a player found to be using it to purposely win games, they would be removed. However, a player who accidentally triggered it would be safe.

The Chin3/20/2015, 6:18:14 AM154 votes

if it's a bannable offense, they should probably remove it from the game...

SouL1ess3/20/2015, 6:31:11 AM98 votes

What the hell?

How does this warrant a ban? If Riot disallows it, they should patch it, not ban the person using the mechanics that are ALREADY in the game.

Poptart Evelynn3/20/2015, 6:13:50 AM83 votes

Edited at end of post for seeing what is possibly false about this thread. Edit 2 - Seems actually Riot had a false positive and messed up. Thankfully a Rioter took action :)

Since when were mechanics bannable? This is pretty stupid I was unaware of this not being allowed.

What about Ahri Charm/Flash? Is that a mechanic or exploit? What about Singed sky Attack? What about trapping blue on lil mobs? What about using Naut W to reset auto/e animation cancle to instantly attack? What about animation cancling in general?

Are these really exploits? I don't see how it's an exploit but just part of the game.

I think they are bull shitting you and accusing you of using a hack/script(Which exist) to do it.

Edit - I actually read the image and yea, they said you were using scripts. I'm going to be honest. I'm very aware of the Sion Ult script/injection program that can literally make the ult 100% control 360 noscope on a dime control. So if you got banned for it someone submitted video evidence of you doing that and I don't feel sorry for you. Edit 2 - A false positive and you were unbanned wow. That's nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiREPbbAgJU

Although I'm still worried about what exactly is considered an exploit.

SheikaRei3/20/2015, 6:07:20 AM66 votes

But that didnt even really do anything! what the hell? It was just making Sion stop his running, thats all. Why the hell would that get you banned? It didnt even effect the game at all. What the flying Teemo . The reason for the ban is ludicrous.

Jalkan3/20/2015, 6:18:20 AM60 votes

Upvoting for visibility.

Violate3/20/2015, 6:34:35 AM52 votes

i have been playing league for 5 years and i never thought that you could get banned for a move THEY put in the game. They never told anyone this wasn't acceptable like control 4 to change looks on a champ (dj sona and knight hunter rengar) i thought this was just part of Sion's kick they should not be banning people for something they put in the game, pls rito.

ImFaze3/20/2015, 6:39:31 AM47 votes

this is not cool you need to be unbanned this is just wrong and unethical. you spend so much time and money for this account and they ban you for something they didnt warn people not to use at all. good luck on your account supportin u all the way, good luck

Awoof3/20/2015, 8:45:49 AM36 votes

Ok, so let's ban every Riven main. They are abusing animation canceling resulting in an unfair advantage.

This is really bullcrap, riot. At least give a warning this is not supposed to be used and just ban if they continue to.

Edit: Also, this is pretty funny:

choosing to use this exploit ruined the game for a multitude of other players

Like, come on, I wouldn't really care if the enemy Sion stuttered forward like that. What does that even accomplish? Giving me more time to walk to the side?

DreadPirateChris3/20/2015, 9:09:58 AM25 votes

If all he did was press 'H' a bunch of times, I don't see how that can be considered any different from any other mechanical trick. There's a bunch of ways to combine or animation-cancel skills that aren't part of 'normal' behavior that are simply considered 'good mechanics'. I'm pretty much unable to play Riven for example because she's balanced around the assumption that people will be doing some weird thing that animation cancels between Q's that I'm not really clear on how to actually do. Instead of calling that trick an 'exploit' and banning players using it, they nerfed Riven on the assumption that all Riven players would use it and forever after she's 'balanced' around that assumption (ie, powerful in the hands of people who can use this 'not-exploit' and worthless in everyone else's hands). Alistar's charge-knockup combo on simultaneous keypress was an unintended mechanic, but that didn't make it an exploit. Annie can shield herself -after- she fires her Q to make it an unannounced stun as long as she does it before the Q lands - I don't know if that was intended or not, but it does seem clear Annie is supposed to have a warning sign up when her stun is available and that -does- bypass it. (Not sure the 1/100'th of a second between shielding and Q'ing would matter to the opponent if you fired the skills in opposite order, but still, the way the trick works makes it -no- chance to react to the stun coming up.)

Maybe there's something more here that wasn't mentioned (some actual hack, for example), but it doesn't make sense at all to ban someone for using a mechanics trick without at least a warning that the trick is considered a bug and not a valid mechanic. Nerf Sion and leave the mechanic, or remove the mechanic and leave Sion alone, but why on earth would you go after players who had discovered a mechanic? That can only make people afraid to experiment with the range of the game.

If there is something more to it, Riot should explain clearly to us why this is an exploit and not a mechanic and how we would know the difference if we found an unusual way to use a champion in the future.

Archenz3/20/2015, 1:02:21 PM23 votes

Riot is so full of shit.

Look at the last response from Riot, Templar Iytsuna, acting all high and mighty saying "We have already explained the context for your suspension. We will not be removing the punishment and consider this matter closed."

People who respond like that to a paying customer who gave the money over the years, thats why I dont have any respect for half the riot team. Disgusting

"Standing defiant in the face of adversity must be tempered with reasoned judgement" Lol yea right, reasoned my ass.

ModKnightsKemplar3/20/2015, 1:22:06 PM20 votes

For the first time, I gotta say I can't stand behind Riot on this.

You only used keys and abilities they included in the game, and it irks me that they would take your account away without even warning you. If they warned you, and you kept doing it, that would be one thing, and if I saw that's what happened, and they banned you, I would change my tune.

As it stands, it sounds like you were screwed by Riot. Pretty shady, indeed.

BakugoBestBoy3/20/2015, 12:56:40 PM19 votes

wut no really, im sorry WUT?!

Rito: Hey guys among all your controls theirs a key specifically to make your character stop moving. It's super cool and stuff and you can use it really effectively on champs like rumble and to kind of cheese animations and stuff to fake out your opponents. But hey even though we've never come out and said it before now... DONT YOU DARE PRESS H WHEN USING SION ITS COMPLETELY EXPLOITING THE GAME AND WERE GONNA FUCKING PERMABAN YOU IF YOU DO IT.

I am literally in awe of the stupidity of this situation. You shouldn't have been so polite with them they're being fucking pricks.

Rasv3/20/2015, 12:44:59 PM17 votes

@Riot Please, this is ridiculous. Unban him. A permanent ban is too harsh punishment. Have you really banned (probably dozens of) people for doing this? You should issue a warning or a day ban or something. Don't act like him doing that actually negatively impacted so many people. Most of them probably laughed, and enjoyed a rare moment when you see something completely ridiculous in game. Don't be Nazis about this.

Can someone from Riot please explain this to us so I can decide whether or not I need to be upset?

DropFill3/20/2015, 7:23:01 AM17 votes

It is fun, because riot didn't patch it even though this "exploit" is there for like....5 patches? They should not permaban someone. It is like banning someone because they can cancel riven's Q animation. I mean, isn't that a "exploit" too riot? Because if it is not, sion ult mechanic should not be either

Doubtful Trap3/20/2015, 11:54:55 AM16 votes

If he doesn't get unbanned soon because of this thread.. I'm sending in a request. This is stupid

DarkFaun Fortes3/20/2015, 8:26:24 AM16 votes

This is outrageous!!! I've dropped around $500 on this game already, and I've only been playing sense the middle of season 4.

How can they justify banning you for something THEY PROGRAMMED IN!?!?!?!? You didn't hack them, or install any non-riot programs to affect the game* right?* How is this a Violation of terms and services???????????????

I'm going to upvote this until it is seen, and re-post it on other sites. Personally, I think you should get a lawyer, get your money back, and be compensated for your time.

They could easily fix this with one patch, and they refuse. Intentionally and knowingly making a trap for experimenting players new to the champ!

gottrjr3/20/2015, 12:44:14 PM16 votes

Please unban or refund the money he spent while having the account.

Mack The Knife3/20/2015, 1:33:27 PM15 votes

Logged in just to say this is a fucking travesty. If the situation really occurred as the OP described, Riot needs to unban him IMMEDIATELY, fix their code, and provide remedial training for the customer service rep who handled the situation in such a ludicrously inept manner.

Evoque3/20/2015, 6:40:39 AM15 votes

Dang rito... that should not be ok. At least give the guy a warning first. Then perma ban him if he continues to do this and you would really like him to stop after his warning. How is he suppose to know that it is exploiting the game when you guys are aware of the bug or mechanic and are KEEPING it in the game. I just don't see how you can just go around taking away accounts that don't deserve it. I completely understand that you guys are trying to protect the game but that's just not right... #longliveS2S

HidingOverHere3/20/2015, 2:46:51 PM15 votes

This is not a bannable offense. It's a mechanic they put into the game intentionally or not. They cannot ban you for using mechanics they put in or you would be banned for discovering ward jumps on Lee Sin.

You should have titled the thread "Banned for using mechanics" or something. In your messages to them, you should have made it clear that you did nothing wrong. Because you didn't. There is no way to tell now if something is a built in mechanic or their definition of "exploit" because they never mentioned it anywhere that this is a bug and shouldn't be used. If there was a popup in the game client saying "Sion's ult is bugged when pressing H and you will be banned for using it" then yes it is justifiable to ban you if you continue using it. They did not mention anything about it however, and so this ban is totally unjustifiable.

Dark Mohan3/20/2015, 4:27:37 PM15 votes

We won't be able to go into spectifics of an account's exploit abuse, as divulging this information could compromise future investigations.

Orianna Hey! We are banning you because you did THAT thing. Sion Wha...!? What did I do? Orianna Don't try to fool us. You know what we are talking about, we are talking about THAT thing. Sion This is ridiculous! How can I be banned for an offence that I do not even know? Orianna We won't tell you because it is classifed information. Just to be clear you did that thing and there is no turning back! Your ban still stands.

Tsohgder3/20/2015, 2:11:04 PM14 votes

This ban is ridiculous.

Should we also ban every nidalee that stays in the FoW hoping to hit you with an invisible spear?

Or every Riven who can cancel the animations of her abilities by using them in a certain order.

We all have seen Gragas flashing during his E, he's not supposed to do that, his E is designed so that he can't hit you when you're behind ally minions , we better ban everyone who uses this dangerous exploit.

The Lee Sin in my last game canceled the second Q by dashing to a minion, we can't have that, can we?

Seriously, riot should deal with their own mistakes, players will always find the best way to play their champions, all possible ways to use their abilities to gain a little bit of advantage, that's just how it is, that's why suddenly everyone uses runaan's on Kalista.

If it's possible to do it without third party programs and it doesn't kick people out of the server or something like that, why would you ban people for using in-game mechanics? If you don't like it, just disable the champion and fix the bug, you've done it before.

And this is like the dumbest exploit ever anyway.

Rakvir3/20/2015, 4:15:38 PM13 votes

Disclaimer: I do not care if the reality of this is that this player could be lying to us about some facet or not including the ENTIRE situation at hand. This is not about this particular issue of whether Sion's "trick" is an exploit or not. This is the judgment of character of the representative handling it.

I honestly think this representative really wanted to be on the fight as their last reply to the final commentary this player gives 'em basically rings of the feeling one would get from someone who says "lalalalalalala...I can't hear you, I don't care...lalalalalalalala, just accept my piss-poor mediocre explanation and don't question it....lalalalalalala".

They don't even acknowledge that there needs to be a warning in place or something of that ilk AND proceeds to make sure they have the final word. Customer service or not, they actually don't NEED to re-iterate what they already said. True, it's most commonly done just out of standard business practice but repetition of "you're banned, deal with it" (albeit in more CS-orientated terms) is not a strict requirement.

It's a defensively bullying mechanic. They have this player bent over the barrel already so there was absolutely no reason to blatantly show that they are in charge when it was already painfully obvious.

2pudge1cup3/20/2015, 6:08:31 PM12 votes

I have to wonder about Riot's line between "exploits" and "part of the game".

Look at Nunu when he ults you from a bush. Oh wait, you can't (unless you already have vision of him). It was never intended to be in the game but players liked it so it stayed. It was featured in a pro game many years ago.

Anyway, this'll probably be the part where a red like pendragon or wookie shows up to say a one liner without additional evidence like "you were banned for hacks" and then leave.

Edit: Well I was wrong on the second part. Kudos to wookee for admitting an error.

Ulquiorra9953/20/2015, 12:48:26 PM11 votes

Sorry Riot, but isn't permabanning someone for using something you programmed in a bit too severe? It'd be understandable if it was game breaking, but it's not. What's next? Permabanning Riven players for using emotes to animation-cancel her Q? Because that move is in the same vein as the Sion mechanic above, but is considered an important mechanic in mastering Riven.

Seriously, note it somewhere that it's not supposed to be so. What is a first time Sion player going to think when he accidentally holds his ult? "Oh, cool trick, I'm going to use it" or "Shit, I will get banned for this"? If your answer is 1 - NO FUCKING SHIT. Permabanning a loyal player over something that might have been working as intended because you ONCE AGAIN displayed poor communication about the matter is a dick move.

The Chain Warder3/20/2015, 8:19:13 AM11 votes

Wow, that's really sad and unfair, especially if you were just doing it to look funny and not to turn the game around. :/ They really need to patch that up.

Klatn Yelox3/20/2015, 8:51:19 AM11 votes

See it is this kind of thing that makes me not want to spend money on this game. There are a number of things I want to get, like more rune pages, and a few more champs. But then things like this come along, and I'm like, "Nah, the don't need my money. I'm going to go buy the Kingdom Hearts 2.5 HD Remix instead. It'll round out my collection."

Pretty sure other people think the same way. Riot, fix an exploit like this as a priority. Not our fault we found something that is mechanically awesome within the game. Also, PBE test things for a longer time.

orid3/20/2015, 2:56:45 PM9 votes

League of Legends is filled with undocumented mechanics that players use to gain an advantage, such as animation canceling. Banning a player for using a mechanic without any warning is unacceptable.