is that right? ur kidding. i put 100's of hours into learning draven and now i cant qss zed ult......rip this game. that champion is already at a 60% ban rate and you going to buff him like this?
1000angrybees13 votesNow everyone's really gonna push "BUY ZHONYA'S" even though the CD is longer and the item is arguably the same level of mediocrity or worse.
I hope he gets nerfed later for all this shit that's gonna come together in one big massive "we told you so" shitstorm when the AP items don't work out as intended and these seemingly simple changes put Zed even further over the top than he should be.
ViashinoWizard12 votesRiot's said they're aware the QSS change is going to make certain champion like Zed more powerful, and they intend to balance them accordingly once they've had a chance to see exactly how it impacts them.
Wheatloaf9 votesIt was just stupid the amount of things QSS could completely nullify. The fact that it was even worth it to buy a magic resist item to counter Zed should have hinted at some sort of problem.
J Eevo15 votesYes, but the problem was that Zed's ultimate combined with Duskblade pops you with minimal interraction so you can't lifesteal or anything, you HAVE to qss. You know well enough that armor doesn't mean shit against it unless you spec into it heavily like a tank.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesBuy a GA stop crying. Armor doesn't mean shit? Duskblade is pretty much useless against everyone with more than 100 armor (the passive procc) if he's not a 5% remaining health.
J Eevo7 votesGA is unviable on purposed though, 300cd, 4s downtime on death, and resurects you with 30% hp. If zed pops you with ga he did his job, you're not contributing anything to the fight, and will die shortly afterwards if the teamfight ends fast. With Qss you could still fight and it didn't take 2700 gold to kick in.
Also duskblade deals 90+25% of target's missing health, 100 armor will help, but definitely won't nullify it, add to that that ADC's don't reach 100 armor usually anyway, and that Zed builds armor pen.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votes"Unviable" Pretty sure it's been widely used until gage came but after the buffs to GA it's even being picked up even in pro play not to mention is the go to for adcs survivability.
But I guess mindless players don't see GA's benefit now.
J Eevo1 votesA bad counter item is still an item, and you're not gonna use QSS if their assassin is Talon or Kha instead of Zed. People used GA because they had no other choice, so the fact that it was awful mattered less. Now that there's an alternative in gage and maw, hardly anyone gets GA, and even if they do, they sell it when it's passive gets popped in favor of another defensive item.
EcchiOtakuTM2 votesGlad they're nerfing maw+gage so you can only pick up one of them soon so GA can start being a core squishy defensive item again.
Only shame is GA's true power isn't as abusable unless you're premade.
Narsicus1 votesActually, when Zed has a Duskblade that is when armor means the most.
Zed's Initial burst combo is reduced by armor.
Duskblade's proc deals physical damage (reduced by armor) based on their missing hp (which is higher because you reduced more damage from his initial burst)
Then his ult deals physical damage (reduced by armor) based on the damage they already took (which has all been reduced by armor)
So when Zed has a Duskblade his burst combo is actually checking against your armor 3 times which makes building armor especially powerful against him. So building a Randuin's or Deadman's instead of Merc Scimitar is actually going to be perfectly viable and likely significantly better survivability.
SnugglePuggle945 votesYea let's just watch and see how many ADC's build a Randuin's or Deadman's. This keeps looking more and more like the ADC's picking up Zhonya's season if you ask me.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesADCs can just pick up GA like they use to before gage.... It's not like GA wasn't buffed too....
SnugglePuggle943 votesEcchiOtakuTM1 votesBecause good adcs have good positioning and a support to peel enemies off and when GA does pop it gives teams punishment room for more stuff blown to kill said ADC which** only low elo mindsets not low elo itself **can't see value in
Hence the buff for squishies.
No duh that's why it's always been your situational 6th item not your core built item but again lower elo **mindsets **think there's just 1 fixed build for everything.
SnugglePuggle943 votesNot everyone is like that, even if in low elo.
Just like Zhonya's, the item will not save you every time. It's a risk you have to take.
I know it's your situational last item, but still most ADC's I see go for full damage. Me I take at least one defensive item even if my support is god tier and my team peels like hell. I don't think there is a fixed build for everything but because I'm in low elo, what do I know, right?
Smh. I hate rude people who always talk down on those that are in divisions below them.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votes2 and 3) That's pretty much how defense for non tanks and bruisers should be situational but effective instead of just buy and ignore that threat for the rest of the game even if it feels like you're cheated when you can't rely on it you should be relying more on your tanks/bruisers/ and support to help peel enemies off which IK while a lot of players may forget that the role of bodyguarding your important members can win more than trying to solo kill. This is also why I'm happy gage and hexdrinker will be the same passive soon so assassins/adcs won't stack it.
Also It gets pretty old when everyone wants something that isn't a tank or bruiser to have impregnable defense to survive all situations without the help of teammates. It's literally a team game and it's not like protection doesn't work but everyone is in it for themselves. I will still apologize for being rude but ADCs should have situational defense yes but not extremely consistent defense items just like tanks shouldn't have consistent damage(Thank god iceborn/grasp got damage nerfs) but have core defensive items.
Woook3r3 votesthere is no "good positioning" for an immobile adc. almost every ability in the game outranges 550 units.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesSo you're telling me as an immobile marksmen(ashe/ draven/ jhin/ jinx/ kog/ MF/ Sivir/ Teemo/ Twitch/ Urgot/ and varus) You're just going to say standing in front of your tanks/supports /bruisers or staying near somewhere without vision isn't bad positioning lol ok. Think you shouldn't take adc anymore if you can't accept that there is good positioning.
Woook3r1 votesno im telling you that no matter who it is, if the adc is in range of them, they are in range of the adc. go look at ali headbut range. there is no safe.
EcchiOtakuTM1 votesUnless you're going solo you should have your teammates to hold them while you attack and back off when it's not safe again that's how all adcs play except graves and urgot. You have to rely on your team though.
However I can see issues if you just have a pure damage comp like a non-tank/bruiser top laner, assassin jungle, and assassin/non-utility burst mage mid and a damage support in those comps I'll say that positioning won't work since they'll tend to leave you alone half of the time.
But to get good positioning try to examine your teammates and suggest one of them hold their cc-skill just to fend off someone from you. And don't just try to maximize your dps even if you could get off 1000 autos it's safer to just get 1 and move to reposition until you're safe to get another.
I'm also sorry if I sounded too rude just that I do believe the qss will drastically make some champs too strong and yes it can be a nightmare for adcs however I feel that hurrying to complain about it when there's other alternatives to avoiding it is too much of a kneejerk reaction. Unlike the xin buff they're probably going to do compensation nerfs immediately before the patch even releases and again there are other alternatives to avoiding it which also improves building from being too much of a 1 trick pony to what do I need to get like it use to.
Woook3r1 votesEcchiOtakuTM2 votesYes sorry for being too rude earlier x.x
Yea I don't like damage supports because of that I'm fine with you going damage as long as you do 2 things, buy a sightstone item and stay with your adc peeling for them.
I'll have to argue that because players who put time into no-mobility adcs have found great or even better success on them due to how much power their kits usually have. Although draven's win rate is low because he is a high skill floor champ, Urgot and teemo aren't really adcs but top laners and the only non-mobility adcs that are having issues are MF and varus due to too much nerfs on mf who had plenty of counterplay and varus still hasn't gotten a rework to move his W to his passive and give him a new skill.....
Aside from that you can even see that mobile adcs are starting to underperform compared to non-mobile adcs
Horse Grenades1 votesI just posted this and got downvoted to peices ::(((
Woook3r2 votesIve been onshot by rengar thru a randuins omen before. It wont help you.
SnugglePuggle941 votesWell, I can see that as the crit stat on it doesn't work against Rengar, and ADC's have a low health pool to begin with anyway. The armor only helps so far along with the slow. But yea I don't see any marksmen building it in the future.
Wheatloaf2 votesBut it's better to be able to balance Zed around not having his ult literally removed. If Riot insists on being conservative for the initial patch, yeah, Zed's probably going to be FotM pick/ban for the umpteenth time. But they can balance him. Eventually, they will balance him. And this time, no one will have to cry about item counters (let's face it, hourglass is great and all, but not as easy/reliable a counter as QSS currently is).
J Eevo1 votesThat's true but it is a weird design decision especially now that assassins have acess to duskblade, which on Zed allows him to play safer than ever with the dive, as even short dives will end in kills though people exploding twice.
I'd understand if QSS got a raise in cooldown, to match the now 120cd zhonya, but completely deleting the only viable way for adc's to survive zed's combo doesn't seem like it'll be healthy.
Wheatloaf1 votesDuskblade was an effort to both give assassins items that weren't balanced around being bought on Marksmen and to force them to use at least one autoattack in a burst combo, theoretically forcing them to spend more time in the thick of things to deal their damage. It really hasn't succeeded in giving us more than a few extra fractions of a second, but it was a step in the right direction. Honestly, it will be difficult to balance assassins as they currently exist. They're too reliant on bursting as fast as possible.
However, they can probably get everything to a point where with some smart map and team play, ADCs have a decent chance of living through an assassin. Beyond regular balance, we have the eventual Assassin Class Update to look forward to (it might even be the next one!). Changing QSS might break Zed in the short term, but long term, and for many champions other than just Zed, I think it's a good decision.
BeMyFriendPlease8 votesRiot's said they're aware the QSS change is going to make certain champion like Zed more powerful, and they intend to balance them accordingly once they've had a chance to see exactly how it impacts them.
nb4 3 ad nerf or 0.05% scaling attack speed nerf.
You fucking know thats how they will "balance" him
Spoofghoul1 votesThey will see
3 monts
Exactly
Another 3 months
how it impacts them
Another 3 monts
And then intend
3 months
To balance them
3 more months
Accordingly
Another 3 months
Irelia Bot3 votesPerhaps they will finally add a hourglass like AD item. That is the better counter item but not an option for AD champs.
SKT T1 LaFlame2 votesYes, that is what they are saying and that's how it should be. Zed shouldn't be popping everybody with no counterplay, but QSS isn't the only counterplay to Zed and QSS (nor any item) should be able to negate an entire champ's kit. Also there's an issue when you're buying an item that literally only gives MR against a 100% phys dmg champ. That's a whack power budget.
Woook3r2 votesThey need to just make assassins safer due to increased mobility and give them less dmg. So no oneshotting in the middle of 5 teammates. No oneshotting period, but you can delete any target that is poked below 100% and no one can stop you from doing that because more mobile and windspeakers can grant tenacity.
I dont know why they want to shoot for the stars and try to balance kits that are designed around toxic gameplay. Its not possible. The assassins need to be super safe super reliable and lower reward.
Syruponrofls2 votesThey need to just make assassins safer due to increased mobility and give them less dmg. So no oneshotting in the middle of 5 teammates. No oneshotting period, but you can delete any target that is poked below 100% and no one can stop you from doing that because more mobile and windspeakers can grant tenacity.
I dont know why they want to shoot for the stars and try to balance kits that are designed around toxic gameplay. Its not possible. The assassins need to be super safe super reliable and lower reward.
Every bit of zeds ultimate is telegraphed, meaning you can see when he ults and when its about to pop. if zed can ult into the entire enemy team himself and the team does nothing about it then he deserves to get the kill. its should be a team effort to stop him, and it really just isn't that hard.
Saianna2 votesI'll be totally honest. By playing Draven you lost the right to talk about balance.
It's like a totally new level of hypocrisy...
Valor Bot1 votesAd hominem.
Saianna2 votesI've seen Dravens do things that should be never done by ADCs. And Draven mains were totally fine with that.
They STILL do stuff that is borderline impossible for other ADCs. Unless healing for even up to 400 per empowere AA is totally fine with you.
Or face-tanking a Rammus Or having more burst with 2 AAs than most mages.
Valor Bot1 votesOk, but just because Draven is strong or perhaps too strong (as in your view) doesn't mean Draven players lose their right to construct arguments and/or judgments about Champion balance, or that their views will be wrong each time. It's like saying tobacco users are in the wrong to tell children not to smoke.
Saianna2 votesit was half a joke.
But who cares.. Joke has been missed.
MEMEME6702 votesI highly doubt you intended any of that to be a joke, it would seem you are simply backtracking now as you can't refute what has been presented against you.
It's perfectly fine to admit you may have been wrong, you know.
Saianna1 votesI really did this as a half, slightly ghastly joke.. I have no way of proving it.. Sigh
LaserDeathBlade1 votesYeah but what might actually make more sense is buying an Armor item to survive Zed rather than an MR/LS item.
Zed's entire purpose is to kill a carry, if you don't die then it basically turns a fight into a 4v5. I think it's pretty damn justified for it to be really damn hard to survive Zed ult without peel from allies.
Serika Zero6 votesSry but, when you press 1 button to be back to safety (R) for over 2000 range of chasing. I don't believe you deserve to have an easy time making that assassination.
SKT T1 LaFlame1 votes-gets hit by any hard cc or silence and dies in 2 seconds without being able to r back-
Serika Zero1 votesbuys qss -> mercurial since it gives a strong active, a lot of ad and life steal anyway
what i'm saying is that, if you want a more reliable assassination, you should pay for it with safety after assassination was completed. you can't have both, Zed right now has the second due to his R mechanism. While his 1st is harder to executed when not feed due to current zhonias and qss. But both those items are going to be hit by the nerf hammer
LaserDeathBlade1 votesZed R-ing away isn't exactly useful to a team, hence it's a 4v5