Support items aren't being abused because they're broken

Ahristocats·Jan 6, 2018·34 votes·2,389 views

Except because riot buffed the damage for no reasons at all

is being built because riot nerfed warlord. Warlord was stupid, gave you infinity sustain and allowed you to bypass the laning phase Riot made flee footwork with a healing penality on minions, what did adcs do? they found something to replace it and built targon "but they built targon before" yes to give supports more money to rush because back then the meta was "whoever has ardent first wins the game" is being built because it allows you to get gold without farming, and thus you can spend the rest of your time poking toplane with kleptomancy to get more gold, and nasus/gangplank are broken with it

solution?

nerf tribute damage melee only and buff base hp+base hp regen by a small amount nothing, just nerf kleptomancy

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

58 Comments

yoshi2790Jan 6, 20184 votes

Support items are abused because RIOT tries to give supports the same power budget on a lower income. Support items don't need to be nerfed. Supports should get more gold and the items should cost more and give a little bit better stats.

This whole post is ridiculous.

AhristocatsJan 6, 20185 votes

oh yeah man, those adcs are totally building targon for that insane hp it gives, or that insane shield that depends on max hp :/

yoshi2790Jan 6, 20182 votes

That's totally not what I said or Implied at all. Try reading my comment again, think about what it means and comment again. Because this is totally not what I said at all.

Board circlejerk of the week: support items

AhristocatsJan 6, 20183 votes

you do realise that targon is being built by adcs not because it has the same power budget on a lower income but because of the sustain?

only zhuleJan 6, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Support items are abused because RIOT tries to give supports the same power budget on a lower income. Support items don't need to be nerfed. Supports should get more gold and the items should cost more and give a little bit better stats.

This whole post is ridiculous.

While i agree, the question then becomes HOW? How do you make supports get more gold and experience in lane without allowing for something stupid like 2 carries bot lane who both, after all is said and done, are only like 1-3 CS worth of gold behind the enemy team's ADC (who is using the current system)

BALDG1VEN BOOMERJan 6, 20184 votes

I like how you slide this random Thresh buff into your post.

AhristocatsJan 6, 20183 votes

it's not a thresh buff, nothing would change if you buff his base hp by 40 to compensate the 75 hp he lost from targon, and buff his hp regen to compensate the sustain he lost nothing would change

Mister SupportJan 6, 20184 votes

Other idea, for Relic line the procs don't regenerate if you kill minions with no stacks available.

For spellthief line, make it also go on CD off if monsters AND while it's on CD you can't proc the gold effects. Currently of its on CD due to farming, you can still proc previously stacked passives.

Coin line I agree, Klepto just needs to be adjusted.

BhagswagJan 7, 20181 votes

No. As a Braum player, I want that juicy farm while my bot laner is gone.

Keep the minion penalty on frost queen's shit. It has additional damage and ranged abilities, so it needs that penalty.

HäxelJan 7, 20181 votes

you should only farm if the minions gonna die to other sources like your tower or your minions, not farm by your own greed. If an adc knows how to maipulate his lane you would jsut screw his plan up. If you not lane vs a heavy poke lane you wouldn't even loose mch by not generatig stacks during that moment where youf arm alone. And even fi you lane vs poke youa re fck braum, guy with e "Unbreakable". A few extra seconds for generating stacks in exchange for more gold wouldn't hurt you that much. I can tell that nerfing Relic statwise or making it melee only so Thresh , Rakan or whoever wants to be a bit more defensive early would be far worse for championdiversity or defensive champs like Braum.

BhagswagJan 8, 20181 votes

Of course. Wave management is important. I'm not gonna push the lane and fk the adc lol.

ClementineJan 6, 20184 votes

Thresh doesn't need buffs lol

AhristocatsJan 6, 20183 votes

Coin has 47% win rate on him, targon has 49.5% win rate

https://i.gyazo.com/6753c5588bf3829c0d1ce6c50ac35969.png

if you force him to pick coin he will be nerfed

ClementineJan 7, 20181 votes

Good, Thresh should have a lower winrate since he's a hard champion to play well. That's why Thresh got nerfed when he had a 53/54% winrate.

AhristocatsJan 7, 20181 votes

and his win rate is already low

ClementineJan 7, 20181 votes

50% is low?

AhristocatsJan 7, 20181 votes

No, but 47% is

50% or 49.5% is what thresh should have and it's what he always had unless he was busted like before his nerf last year

Professor WardJan 7, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TcAIYui2,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-01-06T22:41:44.213+0000)

Coin has 48% win rate on him, targon has 50.5% win rate

if you force him to pick coin he will be nerfed

thresh has consistently been doing terrible, hes not getting nerfs anytime soon.

Madsin25Jan 6, 20183 votes

9 damage buff every 30 seconds wasn't needed but it isn't what makes it broken either.

What makes it broken is queens tribute. It's what enables champs like Vlad to do superman moves that would be impossible without it.

I play a lot of FQC vlad and if I have queens tribute I will not get caught the rest of the game, it is impossible to catch me.

IvernBramblefootJan 6, 20182 votes

lol it's some real noob ADC's that are buying either one of those things. they aren't "abusing" shit, all they are doing is shafting their own build with that stupid crap. The reason why I say that is literally every gold income item is a fail to buy as an ADC, does it have...what are the first two words in the term "ADC"? Is it "Item Gold Income Carry?" Is it "Support Item Carry?" Is it "AP magic damage carry?" No. it's Attack Damage. Since all of the gold income items have zehro attack damage, I can't help but feel that any gold income item is a lateral move at best that really doesn't help anyone, not on an ADC.

EschetonJan 6, 20187 votes

{quoted}

lol it's some real noob ADC's that are buying either one of those things. they aren't "abusing" shit, all they are doing is shafting their own build with that stupid crap. The reason why I say that is literally every gold income item is a fail to buy as an ADC, does it have...what are the first two words in the term "ADC"? Is it "Item Gold Income Carry?" Is it "Support Item Carry?" Is it "AP magic damage carry?" No. it's Attack Damage. Since all of the gold income items have zehro attack damage, I can't help but feel that any gold income item is a lateral move at best that really doesn't help anyone, not on an ADC.

Increased lane sustain means you can more easily get cs because it's safer. Which means that Targons, on top of giving free gold over time and gold to your support, allowing them to better keep you alive come midgame, you also get free gold from poking via Bandit.

You know what ADC do with gold? They buy items to kill people with. BF is better than pickaxe. BF is more expensive. More money means more damage, which means a won lane. A won lane means a won game, these days.

Also, item 1083 . Literally an item created with the above in mind.

KlydeFrogJan 6, 20181 votes

I mean I like to get Frost Queens in the mid lane due to damage cdr Mana Regen

AhristocatsJan 6, 201823 votes

noob adc, everyone above master are doing it XD

meddler acknowledged the problem and said it's going to be looked at, no matter if you think it's "real noob adc"

the gold income items have "zehro" attack damage but provide all the sustain you need to bypass the laning phase

KlydeFrogJan 6, 20181 votes

Dorans shield does as well and you see adcs buy it

AhristocatsJan 6, 20185 votes

because doran shield doesn't sustain your support and doran shield gives less sustain than targon

KlydeFrogJan 6, 20181 votes

Dorans shield plus 2nd wind says otherwise

AhristocatsJan 6, 20183 votes

u take 2nd wind on adcs?

KlydeFrogJan 6, 20182 votes

Messed around with it yes due to the poke they had it let me stay in lane longer with grasp and 2nd wind . Then what ever other runes you want .

Spank the FoxJan 6, 20181 votes

The chain just proves how much of a sheep you are, lmao.

NetorareJan 6, 20182 votes

Why do peoples always find something random to bitch about?

Lux TizerJan 6, 20187 votes

You're aware you're on the gameplay boards, right?

SalsonJan 6, 20182 votes

Nah, they're broken since Rito added Quests in mid-season 7.

But really man, just look at this: -decent stats -active -gold generation -quest passive

HungryAngry2SPPJan 7, 20182 votes

W--w-what?

item 3301 If you re lucky you ll get 50 gold for each wave instead of the normal 120

item 3302 it works on melee only and has a 30s cooldown

item 3303 Resets everytime you kill a minion

There's no reason to build it on any champ other than support

And these items or not OP maybe they are, but not as much as Duskblade so stop complaining

AhristocatsJan 7, 20182 votes

{quoted}

If you re lucky you ll get 50 gold for each wave instead of the normal 120

implying that you last hit 0 minions i guess nasus's insane win rate with coin is due to the power of god :^)

it works on melee only and has a 30s cooldown

it doesn't, only the execute is melee only you get all the other effects on ranged champions

every adcs are building it, regardless of the elo

Resets everytime you kill a minion

still deals too much damage, gives a free ghost for no reasons at all is not disabled when you kill a monster

why do you think everyone is building it above d1?

SSShutTheDuckUpJan 6, 20181 votes

just a noob question, but why do you think item 3092 is broken?

AhristocatsJan 6, 20181 votes

built on midlaners and junglers (ap) it gives too much damage, the tribute procs that gives gold deals 18 bonus magic damage

in a situation where you proc it 3 times that's a 54 bonus magic damage

SSShutTheDuckUpJan 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TcAIYui2,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-01-06T17:23:35.780+0000)

built on midlaners and junglers (ap) it gives too much damage, the tribute procs that gives gold deals 18 bonus magic damage

in a situation where you proc it 3 times that's a 54 bonus magic damage

But according to both LoLking and Leagueofgraphs it has the lowest winrate of all support items. Even if winrates should be taken with a grain of salt - wouldn't just nerfing the item make supports like Zyra and Xerath too weak?

AhristocatsJan 6, 20182 votes

win rate of items in general never made sense

you can nerf it without nerfing supports like farming reduces the damage of tribute even if i don't agree with xerath and zyra being supports

SSShutTheDuckUpJan 6, 20183 votes

Nerfing damage would hurt them. And I see no problem with different champions to be viable at different positions. One may like or hate certain strategies, like supporting your team by picking a strong early game champion to slow down the scaling hypercarry, then produce CC and zone control on the battlefield. However the more strategies like that we have - the more diverse the game is, and that's a good thing in general

AsudurgaJan 6, 20181 votes

I agree, Fiddlesticks mid with it is hilarious to pull off.

only zhuleJan 6, 20181 votes

nothing, just nerf kleptomancy

Klepto has issues no doubt, but i really don't want to lose the skill when i play Sona. That extra gold income is amazing.

Pumping IronJan 6, 20181 votes

they're abused because give a ton of gold

AhristocatsJan 6, 20183 votes

yeah, those adcs are totally gaining more gold with targon

Pumping IronJan 6, 20181 votes

≈1k and gangplnak with item 3301 even more

AzeranthJan 7, 20181 votes

Buying a gold income item is often smart, and I support fully any attempts riot takes to implement balanced gold generation items as niche items in kits other than the support.

SõnaJan 7, 20181 votes

In my personal opinion， How about giving another resource instead of gold in order to finish the quest or buying item. For anyone who bought the support gold income item [like spellthief] wouldn't be able to receive as much gold as normal laner would do. It can be separated from player who abuse the gold + gold, but gold + [new currency] won't be stacked and not able to buy the item in one go. Yes, we can use [new currency] to buy the same item in same value. But for player who holds support income item, they won't be able to farm as much as other.

If they [who are not supposedly a support] kill a minion with the support item, they will receive half of the gold [roughly 10-12 golds]

For relic, it triggers the half-gold penalty after they have actually killed 4 minions for the healing/instant kill things.

Of course, all of those are just my plain and draft idea.

Kinkou OrderJan 7, 20181 votes

That is what I would do to resolve the issue.

Make it charge more often and reduce the gold provided to the owner of the item for creep kills while the nearby ally gets the full amount of gold.

Marksmen losing out on likely 600 gold by 15 minutes would likely be a steep enough price to stop them from ever buying it while supports would be about where they are now with the current item.

Kinkou OrderJan 7, 20181 votes

They could make it so that Relic shield line of items charge more often but reduce the gold provided to the owner.

Say it only gave the owner only 10 for melee and caster minions and 20 for siege minions and charge about every 15 or 20 seconds.

That would be a sizable chunk of change that marksmen would be missing out on by buying this and would promote supports last hitting more often. The nearest ally would still get the full gold for the kill.

The idea would be to make supports be more active in earning their gold and getting about as much as they currently do if using it all the time but also making marksmen get punished for buying it.

Health restored will also have to be nerfed as well.