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Okay, you want to know what is wrong with the kog buff in next patch?

Ahristocats··186 votes·7,998 views

where the fuck should i start?

they nerfed a champion that dominated the game for a fucking year, the champion ends up weaker than before and they immediatly buff him one patch later ONE PATCH LATER they didn't even bother to let kog's players time to adapt to the nerf you know, adapt to being weak until 2 or 3 items not being able to kill someone in 2 seconds anymore not building fucking bruiser items but actual damage items to deal damage

it's, "kog win rate dropped! buff him!" meanwhile Viktor had 43% win rate for 1 year, Jhin has 46% win rate EVEN AFTER THE BUFF and has been garbage ever since lethality meta shifted in season 7, Lucian has 46% win rate EVEN AFTER THE BUFF explain how does it make sense for a champion to get buffed when the win rate drops for a single patch, when champions are in the gutter since years?

and they decided to buff the most cancerous part of his kit which is pure rightclicking you had kog rightclicking you to death with only W since tank update in season 7, actually since way before his kit was always unhealthy you nerf the problematic part of the champion that is his horrible arcanic barrage, only to buff it later

they could have buffed his slow, his reveal, his mana cost, his spell damage, something that made him more than building item 3124 and abusing on-hit effect like a ** but no, they decided that kog's W was healthy, having an adc building bruiser items and having 700 range was healthy

and then you guys ask me what's wrong with the kog's buff?

give me a break

168 Comments

Infernape74 votes

On top of reverting the nerf to Frozen Mallet.

DeadUnborn12 votes

they did? fuck yeah Tankmo with new AP items is gonna be broken as shit

Thefrostyviking4 votes

Lots of champs are going to be broken as shit, because pre revert mallet was x)

DeadUnborn3 votes

lots? Excluding Gnar and Kog, which champion is broken with mallet?

Thefrostyviking3 votes

I don't recall a lot except Teemo, but i remember that several champs used ....unusual builds that worked because mallet was as strong as it was and that those builds were just as frustrating as any perma slow build is.

But admittedly i do think Gnar,kog and teemo are the worst offenders.

.....

No wait!

AD kennen, that nasty hell rat was also a user.

SweedishGunner4 votes

Yasuo can use Mallet well too.

kile1471 votes

How is mallet broken? I see people say this a lot and I'm always curious as to their reasons. Do you think item 3025 is broken too? Not trying to attack here, genuinely curious.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Gauntlet´s is pretty oriented towards tanks but i am fairly sure only a select few really use it, it seems to have gotten nerfed outa the meta due to a lack of synergy for the most part, might be due to the stats of Armor/cdr/mana. It's proc also doesn't really deal much damage and it's area of effect is limited....and has a armor scaling.

Mallet on the other hand, offers a lot of health, some AD, and that perma slow which makes it near impossible to get away from the user, which overall synergizes much better with several champs like Teemo,yasuo, kennen, urgot etc.

And the effectiveness of a permanent and strong slow was seen on old Rylai in which everyone who could would always buy the item because it effectively screwed over most other people x)

Fisher No Chains42 votes

I have to agree with you on this one.

Especially now that the game is so early-game oriented, Kog had fucking 54% winrate before minute 20. How was that even fair?

Now he has 47/48% and HE IS SUPPOSED to have this winrate because:

  1. he’s an adc that needs some thought since he’s immobile, and without peel he’s either good or useless/dead;
  2. he’s supposed to be a hypercarry artillery adc so he’s NOT supposed to win early trades and win 54% of the time before fucking 20 minutes.

If anything, this nerf was warranted and justified. He just needs to stop building 2 on hit/AS items then offtank and focus more on AD or other stuff because he should be a glass cannon carry, not some ranged bruiser that outscales everyone with a recurve bow.

NickMP7 votes

The issue with this is that Kog’Maw doesn’t have AD ratios outside of his ultimate, theres surprisingly little difference between a Kog’Maw with 300 AD and a Soraka with 300 AD.

Likewise he wouldn’t scale with lethality well, and no real AS/AD steroid means crit isn’t that attractive either. (Though a full build crit kog is a real nightmare, that goes for pretty much every champion, even melees.)

Kog’Maw is in many ways a Dota style champion, similar to Garen, in that his item choices are meant to work around his weaknesses and enable him, rather then just build 6 items with a given stat, due to a lot of damage being baked into his kit without actually really having scalings.

And one of the best ways to enable yourself as a Kog’Maw in league is ultimately to just buy some tank items. So people do that.

It’s healthy to have this variety of champion builds in the game, and Kog’Maw can’t be limited to only being good in protect the kog comps, otherwise you’d see sub 40% win rates with him still being considered too strong in pro games.

Was Kog’Maw too strong? Yeah, so they nerfed him, rightfully so. Was he too weak afterwards? His winrate dropped to 3% below 50%, if being 3% over pronpted a nerf, I’d argue being 3% below should prompt a buff.

Ahristocats14 votes

wait what? Kog's ult scales AMAZINGLY well with AD

if targets are below 40% hp it deals a MINIMUM of 270 (+ 97.5% bonus AD) damage, which is increased by 1-50% depending on target's missing health

they could have buffed his ult mana cost, or ult range, or something that made kog building AD+crit just like any marksmen and becoming a half poke half hypercarry with his W and at least he would get counterplay because you can dodge his ult, so if more power is put into his ult it's better than power put on his W.

they decided to half revert a nerf that was completly justified because he was cancer before, and unbalanceable

NodirjonSattarov2 votes

He doesn't build AD though. Only AD comes from Rageblade and BoRK maybe. Old Kog'Maw build made his ult potent because he had items like Triforce, Last whisperer, IE, and BoRK as his main items. His ult right now is unreliable and waste of mana for "poke"

Ahristocats3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Kogfather,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2O9qOvXr,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-13T17:17:15.773+0000)

His ult right now is unreliable and waste of mana for "poke"

Yea because riot is afraid of "unhealthy ap kog" when ap kog has skillshots and got gutted in the ground in season 7 anyway

they should buff his ult mana cost, and his ult range not buff his rightclicking

NodirjonSattarov4 votes

I understand why they need to have AP ratios on a magic dealing ability but they really need to get rid of the %HP mechanic to the ability. Make it flat like it used to be, lower AP ratios and increase bonus AD ratios so Kog'Maw can truly be the "Artillery" ADCs. To get this sort of thing going he NEEDS a better mid-game item that helps him spam abilities. Triforce just doesn't scale like it used to + Triforce is more of a bruiser item.

NodirjonSattarov4 votes

  1. but when his team mates do peel him people complain that if Kog'Maw gets out of place he should die (C9 vs WE) https://youtu.be/yLJoPe0YCJg?t=1965

  2. he USED to be an artillery ADC until they made Triforce unreliable on him. Triforce gave Kog'Maw everything he needed to get to mid game. It synergized so well with every aspect of the champion. It was near perfect. Then they (RIOT) forced him to be more AA oriented during the 5AS fiasco in s6 then CONTINUED to let him be the on-hit monster he currently is. The game changed, so has Kog'Maw

Thefrostyviking7 votes

But was he really out of position if his team was in position to immediately bail him out and prevent anything more than like 2 auto attacks from a 1-2 items caitlyn and a ori ulti after the seju ulti?

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

If you watch very closely Caitlyn doesn't actually AA Kog'Maw. She sets down a trap and immediately nets to dodge Gragas. Shen almost taunted him but Galio ult dropped preventing the engage. Only 2/5 people were able to commit to the fight. The only damage came from Ori ult + whatever her other abilities are, and Sej ult + her stun thing. Caitlyn couldn't even manage to get a Q off. They had so much disengage for Kog'Maw + engage for the enemy team. Very unlucky.

Thefrostyviking5 votes

If looking at cait alone it truly seems like she doesn't do anything, but if looking at kog we see him take a hit that deals both magic and AD simultaneously.

I am quite certain that was from cait´s AA+static proc.

But admittedly, it was only 1 auto x)

NodirjonSattarov1 votes

If you look very, VERY carefully Caitlyn doesn't AA. If there was a SS proc, it would have been visible hitting Janna.

Thefrostyviking3 votes

So what did the damage to kog? The AA he took was around 90-110 but only cait could have done that.

Spank the Fox16 votes

Did we really need another thread created barely 12 hours later from your first “Kog nerf partial revert?!” thread?

Someone with many updoots in your other even addressed it was a simple buff between his current value and his old “OP” value that they can test out.

Your argument “Lucian and Vik had to stay trash for a season!” is a stupid talking point. You want more champions to sit in the unviable pile because some other champs did? Logic, where have you gone?

What is this post contributing besides more spam?

Ahristocats7 votes

I am from EUW i woke up today and had 15 or more people telling me "what's wrong with buffing kog'maw" in my other thread that's why i created a new thread answering to them

What is this post contributing besides more spam?

telling riot to not buff kog'maw's right clicking? duh?

Purejoyce3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2O9qOvXr,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2018-02-13T14:43:26.118+0000)

I am from EUW i woke up today and had 15 or more people telling me "what's wrong with buffing kog'maw" in my other thread that's why i created a new thread answering to them

What thread? btw the way you answer to posts is by answering to posts, not by spamming a new thread every time you want to "answer someone". Also you're wrong and your """ideas""" for a buff are terrible.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

If enough people failed to understand it under their other post then I would honestly rather they create a new thread rather than bump their old thread 15 times with the same copy pasted reply. Posting an answer like this consolidates it.

Purejoyce1 votes

{quoted}

If enough people failed to understand it under their other post then I would honestly rather they create a new thread rather than bump their old thread 15 times with the same copy pasted reply. Posting an answer like this consolidates it.

He only needs to bump it once, wtf are you talking about?

HalcyonDweller4 votes

It was clearly a widespread misconception. Better to answer it in a post so that it can be corrected for more people.

Purejoyce2 votes

{quoted}

It was clearly a widespread misconception. Better to answer it in a post so that it can be corrected for more people.

Clearly? Which thread was it?

Also he's wrong, so there was no """widespread misconception" and it's not clearing anything up.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2O9qOvXr,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2018-02-13T14:43:26.118+0000)

i woke up today and had 15 or more people telling me "what's wrong with buffing kog'maw" in my other thread

15 responses in one night all having the same question seems like a pretty good indicator that the question is widely held.

Purejoyce2 votes

I'm not asking for his quote from this thread. I'm asking: which thread is it?

And a "misconception" still is a bad word for this situation, considering op was/is wrong.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

Fuck if I know mate, the dude tends to be pretty honest with their posting, so I took their word for it. If you care so much then go look it up on their fucking profile.

I already switched from "misconception" to "question." You are one reply too late to raise that issue.

"15 responses in one night all having the same question seems like a pretty good indicator that the question is widely held.

Whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant, because their choice to make a new post was predicated on the need to answer a widely held question, regardless of whether their answer was right or wrong.

Purejoyce2 votes

{quoted}

Fuck if I know mate

Then why do you try to answer for him when you have no answers?

the dude tends to be pretty honest with their posting, so I took their word for it. If you care so much then go look it up on their fucking profile.

You seem to know the guy, but missed that great thread with 5423 posts that he totally had to clear up by spamming another thread (that's wrong)? :D k.

I already switched from "misconception" to "question." You are one reply too late to raise that issue.

What? Where? When? You answered to me with misconceptions, so no, not too late. I don't care if you edited your post after I already answered it, if anything it proves my point, so thanks.

"15 responses in one night all having the same question seems like a pretty good indicator that the question is widely held.

As I said, you edited that part out after I answered (twice btw), but nice try. :D

Whether it is right or wrong is irrelevant, because their choice to make a new post was predicated on the need to answer a widely held question, regardless of whether their answer was right or wrong.

It is relevant and that's why you edited it out.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

{quoted}

Then why do you try to answer for him when you have no answers?

Because it is obvious to me why he chose to make another post. Since it is not obvious to you it seemed prudent to make it clear for you.

You seem to know the guy, but missed that great thread with 5423 posts that he totally had to clear up by spamming another thread (that's wrong)? :D k.

Fuck off mate, I'm not interested in a fight. Lay off the inflammatory idiocy. I don't know them personally, I've just seen their posts enough over the years. They are a relatively upright individual.

What? Where? When? You answered to me with misconceptions, so no, not too late. I don't care if you edited your post after I already answered it, if anything it proves my point, so thanks.

As I said, you edited that part out after I answered (twice btw), but nice try. :D

It is relevant and that's why you edited it out.

I edited nothing. Here's the comment where I said "misconception"

{quoted}

It was clearly a widespread misconception. Better to answer it in a post so that it can be corrected for more people.

And here is the comment where I called it a question.

{quoted}

15 responses in one night all having the same question seems like a pretty good indicator that the question is widely held.

I acquiesced to reason. You're still picking fights. Stop it.

Purejoyce1 votes

{quoted}

Because it is obvious to me why he chose to make another post. Since it is not obvious to you it seemed prudent to make it clear for you.

That post doesn't exist, OP is full of crap, so not only this thread is plain wrong and stupid, now your initial answer is the same as well.

Fuck off mate, I'm not interested in a fight. Lay off the inflammatory idiocy. I don't know them personally, I've just seen their posts enough over the years. They are a relatively upright individual.

Fuck off mate, you're the one that keeps writing "fuck off" in every other post and then insults me, but hey, glad you stated clearly that "you're not interested in fight", now try to get a matching behavior. I also never said you know them personally, lay off the inflammatory idiocy and stop putting words in my mouth just so you can come up with some insult on the way.

I acquiesced to reason. You're still picking fights. Stop it.

While never saying a word about it and then saying "emmm too late!". Not picking fights, you're just avoiding parts of the messages you're wrong about and then feel insulted when called out. Stop it.

But let's go back to "why are you answering for him?" part. As you can see, OP is in this very thread answering to people, but lo and behold, he still avoids posts where he's called out. Why? I think you know and so do I.

Kai Guy2 votes

Op did have a post going on about the 1% kog buff. I recall reading it but personally I'm having a hard time finding the thread now so I can understand why you feel its untruthful that it existed.

May not be super accurate but the tldr I walked with was op felt that its silly for them to 1 patch later go to the in-between number of 6%, that there are areas in kogs kit that express skill better then his auto attacks.

Personally, I think a slightly harder nerf is a good way to go and that giving your self some wiggle room for buffs is not bad. Partly for community reaction, A weak nerf, weak nerf, weak nerf creates clear frustration, see zoe responses. A stronger nerf, then reintroducing power takes a less time, the mains feel they got a buff after nerf so their champs not as badly off, folks who hate that champ are happy they got nerfed. I think ultimately its a better way to go.

ModCaptainMårvelous4 votes

As a heads up, for both parties involved, remember to keep this respectful or we'll have to take action. It's fine for the moment but it's dancing on that edge quite dangerously.

Spank the Fox4 votes

Bumping doesn’t really work here and addressing the individual concerns is much better than posting the same topic over and over again, resulting in stagnant conversation, since it appears the same people who upvoted the last thread are upvoting this one too.

Which leads into “the whole community thinks x...” when it’s really still just a subset.

Spank the Fox3 votes

And when in the history of ever has Riot listened to you? Or Boards in particular when it comes to balancing.

It’s spamming. Address the individuals who disagree with you in your original thread., if you genuinely care what they think. You are less likely to touch them here and I honestly think you’re perpetuating a circlejerk.

Also, 13 hours between posts is still one waking day. Unless you post a thread before bed, but judging by the fact you stay up to respond, I doubt it was.

GayFluffyUnicorn4 votes

No he wants riot to stop with their fuckin favorism and only push riot approved champs into the meta. What riot does has nothing to do with balance. The game has never been so disconnected, seriously. Every ape beats you just by playing meta because the powerlevel between champs is so disproportional and riot continues that path by ensuring that THEIR vision of gameplay is always meta and the champs that support it while the rest can stay in the trashcan.

lolipopevelynn12 votes

Riots balance team is complete garbage you say? My boi, this is the first ive heard of this news!

In all seriousness tho, balance team has no idea what they are doing

Cowgirl Ed11 votes

"kog is a hyper carry he is only good late game!!1" "he is very useless if someone gets near him he's DEATH!!" "he needs buffs obviously"

these people actually believe all these sentences, lèl.

Lios Ashenblade6 votes

Kog is an ADC hyper carry, he is useless until he finishes 1 item*

fixed it lol

Daunt2 votes

How is that a problem with Kog then? The on hit itemization is giving those kind of ADCs a really early wake up call. Hit Guinsoo's instead of Kog.

Red Wreckage4 votes

Maybe they have plan to nerf supports soon....you know maybe nerfing toxic excrement like janna/lulu etc. which make little rats into tanks bigger than fusion form of rammus and malphite, that they did this little buff after a heavy nerf.

nelogis25 votes

"soon"

we were supposed to get a bruiser keystone "soon"

I don't think you quite understand what Riot means when they say "soon", a tip it doesn't mean soon it means "soon"

And no they won't nerf supports I can guarantee you that because if they do that then the ADC will get popped because of duskblade assassins (which is a good thing I seriously don't mind anymore if both ADCs are in the grey screen the entire game past 12 mins). Then they would have to deal with assassins and Duskblade and that is just WAAAY too much work for them to handle at once.

If after some miracle they actually did that then they have to nerf ADCs and after that the tanks.

So no. I hope you like the current meta because nothing is ever going to change ever again im afraid.

GayFluffyUnicorn10 votes

Not as long as this excuse of a design team is in charge and even then it would take from now on the rest of the season to fix only the major issues of this game. This game is so heavily disconnected from what it was supposed to be it's insane. I'm glad i stopped playing for two days already and enjoy other games. I just kept playing in the hope that eventually this game becomes better again but whenever i look at the PBE i just shake my head in frustration and i can not understand how this design team is still in charge. Heavily biased, plays constant favorites, doesn't understand their own fuckin game. Balance is basically non existant. The powerlevel between champions is so ridiculously disproportional. Nothing about permashields making adcs unkillable, or cheap OP items making them singlehandedly take over games after two items, haven't watched proplay since s7 not worth my time but i know the meta is garbage. Casters hyping up trashplays pro player would have gotten flamed for it before and riot would have been ridiculed by them for letting this exist, e.g. tristana jumping into three people and either killing them or forcing them to flash away followed by the current casters: WOW LOOK AT THE AD CARRY HE IS PROBABLY THE BEST PLAYER IN EUROPE RIGHT NOW WOW WHAT A PLAY. Tanks still beat you at every stage of the game, now they start to add EVEN MORE CDR AND MAX % HP DMG TO THE FUCKIN GAME. HAS RIOT LOST THEIR FUCKIN MIND!?We have enough of that shit in the game. I could go on but whatever, reddit and boards say everything is okay and the game is in the best state ever so yeah there you go.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

You do realize that aside from fervor of battle there is pretty much no kinds of single keystone that would work for all the divers/juggernauts right? Heck there was even a distance as wide as the crust of the earth to the stratosphere between how good different melees were at using fervor.

They´ll need to implement at least 2, maybe even 3 to cover all the champs that people are complaining about as of currently.

And from what i have seen, all you "brusier" mains don't even know what kind of rune you want! Last few guys who tried to talk about it got their threads drowned in confusion, insults and endless disagreements.

nelogis4 votes

You know when they could have implemented that?

In the rune update

But now ADCs have 4 keystones to chose from :)

Wanna explain me how that happened?

Oh hey have you seen that new tank rune by the way! :D

Riot is at fault here, either they thought Grasp or PTA is enough (which means their playtesting team is .... you can fill in the gap on your own) or they straight up forgot about it (how do you even do that?!) or they KNEW and simply didn't give a shit.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Marksmen should have 3 good/decent choices? O_O

Oddballs like Ezreal and MF might pick something else.

The issue of melee in current league isn't the lack of a rune, it's fundamental overall issue´s that are crippling them, go watch Hasashins latest discussion video if looking for specifics because he talks about pretty much everything i could name as a problem there.

nelogis2 votes

They can use Arey if they really want to, EZ and Draven can use Klepto, MF and Jhin can use comet. Thats enough outliners where you can count it as a 4th keystone

Yes there are other factors that are making melee champs without gapclosers unviable. Doesn't mean the absence of a keystone ISN'T a problem

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