1K gold spent in item = 1K gold spent in item

iluvalar·Jul 10, 2015·1 votes·1,180 views

I really DO LOVE making maths and optimizating my build. Hell, I made my own 2Ko PHP code that calculate every little detail of a build and help optimizing it.

But really the point of this post is exactly this : it's OPTIMIZATION. Yes there is all that question of synergy and scaling. But still, spending 1k gold will still make you somewhat 10% stronger no matter what.

I'm saying this as a tips, because right now, it's INSANE to see all my teamates going on tilt litteraly. Just because I buy a as first item instead of or whatever or is the meta right now. Seriously they start to play poorly, feeding, raging. nearly going afk. Don't be those guys. Yes ! I bought an item that gives 75 AD for 2200 instead of 80AD and 20 Crit% for 3800. I might not be optimal but that's not sufficient to rage and play poorly yourself. BY FAR !

In actuality, I'm using the pretty new mediation mastery to synergize with the muramana. I endup with a free passive. It's pretty decent if you really wonder. And more often then not, I end with the most damage in the game. But still once in a while I have to deal with people arguing about buying "damage" item and really throwing for this.

STOP ! lol. I had my gold, I spent it. It should be OK. Maybe not optimal but OK. Keep going.

10 Comments

OhBoyItsaMegamanJul 10, 20153 votes

I remember you as the person who made several threads trying to explain that Sightstone is a bad item on support Soraka.

You were correct then—and you are correct now—in saying that you do not deserve to have people rage at you or abuse you due to the items you are buying. You are thoroughly incorrect about the theory that spending a certain amount of gold increases your power by approximately the same amount regardless of which items you're buying, and the justifications for your item choices are really pretty bad.

LaukiJul 10, 20151 votes

now this is going to seem offensive and its not meant to but really it has to be so i guess it is.

have you ever thought about why you are silver 5

now honestly your build dosnt matter that much to me (though i will note that a better tank item for adc would probably be randuins or banshees over warmogs as it dosnt give any resistance) (and the major issue with tear in lane is that it sets you back 720 gold and idk if jinx is the sort of laner that can reliably deal with that) (and you need to relize that ie adds crit damage, meaning that your ~ 100 ad with runes masteries and dorans at level 8 coupled with the 80 from ie does an average of 234 damage a hit (before resistances or anything) and your manamune giving ~80 ad plus the pick axe and the long sword you have obtained at this point are dealing 215 damage a hit or something like that)

now they ie scales well into late game and so does manamune, but with her rockets jinx dosnt have the pool to sustain manamune usage and she dosnt exactly use it to poke

continuing the silver 5 strand, builds matter, and yours suck in addition to your useless 720 tear gold (couldve been a pickaxe) you also buy the support blue item and an avarice blade which sits in your inventory for the rest of the game, being useless ( you can make an argument for passive gold but that ship aint sailing). I cant even see how you make it through the first 10 minutes of the laneing phase.

edit: THIS IS NOT REALLY RELEVANT TO THE POST JUST THOUGHT I WOULD RIGHT DOWN MY INITIAL THOUGHTS

iluvalarJul 10, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=oranges and k,realm=NA,application-id=WEuoGbmp,discussion-id=wLbLz0M8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-07-10T02:32:36.050+0000)

now this is going to seem offensive and its not meant to but really it has to be so i guess it is.

have you ever thought about why you are silver 5

now honestly your build dosnt matter that much to me (though i will note that a better tank item for adc would probably be randuins or banshees over warmogs as it dosnt give any resistance) (and the major issue with tear in lane is that it sets you back 720 gold and idk if jinx is the sort of laner that can reliably deal with that) (and you need to relize that ie adds crit damage, meaning that your ~ 100 ad with runes masteries and dorans at level 8 coupled with the 80 from ie does an average of 234 damage a hit (before resistances or anything) and your manamune giving ~80 ad plus the pick axe and the long sword you have obtained at this point are dealing 215 damage a hit or something like that)

now they ie scales well into late game and so does manamune, but with her rockets jinx dosnt have the pool to sustain manamune usage and she dosnt exactly use it to poke

continuing the silver 5 strand, builds matter, and yours suck in addition to your useless 720 tear gold (couldve been a pickaxe) you also buy the support blue item and an avarice blade which sits in your inventory for the rest of the game, being useless ( you can make an argument for passive gold but that ship aint sailing). I cant even see how you make it through the first 10 minutes of the laneing phase.

Allright, ty for looking at my build and really trying to help. It's much appreciated. Combining the manamune to the new meditation mastery, I generate 35 more mp5. Which is enough to fully sustain the rockets which deal 10% more damage, have 150 more range (perma 1/3 of a flash) and aoe. I do lose about 6% of damage that would have came from the offensive masteries. So add that 4% to my 215 damage and consider the gain of range and I think you got the math right. And I DO have the mana to sustain manamune due to meditation. Or to be more exact, I have enough sustain to cast my flash and rockets even with 0 mana left. So my pool of mana can go into the manamune without much negative effects.

The avarice blade is built into statik shiv. So it's far from being a waste. Again maybe not the ultimate best item, but you need to see how quick and well the farming with perma rockets and hurricane goes to appreciate the gold i can fetch from that avarice blade at that moment in my build. It's pretty neat.

Ok so you found the spellthief in my build. hehe. I found that any more AD I buy (doran or sword) tend to make my rockets and autoattacks often push the minions under 10HP. So when I try to push the lane, I counterintuitively end up losing CS by building more AD. If you have a suggestion of starting item, that dont have AD and yet allow me to buy enough hp pot, I'll be happy to switch that spellthief. But spellthief is more impressive then you'd think. By the time i really need that slot it made 700gp, it paid itself twice even if we disregard the extra damage from the proc and the mp5 i get from it. So it's far as being as bad as it look. I enjoy it, especially with the longest AA range in the game.

KazaashiJul 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Allright, ty for looking at my build and really trying to help. It's much appreciated. Combining the manamune to the new meditation mastery, I generate 35 more mp5. Which is enough to fully sustain the rockets which deal 10% more damage, have 150 more range (perma 1/3 of a flash) and aoe. I do lose about 6% of damage that would have came from the offensive masteries. So add that 4% to my 215 damage and consider the gain of range and I think you got the math right. And I DO have the mana to sustain manamune due to meditation. Or to be more exact, I have enough sustain to cast my flash and rockets even with 0 mana left. So my pool of mana can go into the manamune without much negative effects.

As a support main, if I se the enemy ADC [other than Urgot] build a tear, I will be all up on thier ass zoning them off of CS. Pickaxe/BF Sword vs Tear makes for a very one-sided trades.

The avarice blade is built into statik shiv. So it's far from being a waste. Again maybe not the ultimate best item, but you need to see how quick and well the farming with perma rockets and hurricane goes to appreciate the gold i can fetch from that avarice blade at that moment in my build. It's pretty neat.

Ok so you found the spellthief in my build. hehe. I found that any more AD I buy (doran or sword) tend to make my rockets and autoattacks often push the minions under 10HP. So when I try to push the lane, I counterintuitively end up losing CS by building more AD. If you have a suggestion of starting item, that dont have AD and yet allow me to buy enough hp pot, I'll be happy to switch that spellthief. But spellthief is more impressive then you'd think. By the time i really need that slot it made 700gp, it paid itself twice even if we disregard the extra damage from the proc and the mp5 i get from it. So it's far as being as bad as it look. I enjoy it, especially with the longest AA range in the game.

When you kill a minion, it disables the spell thief passive. It's really, really, really, really, really, terrible. You can do whatever you want, but don't expect people to like it when your build makes the game harder.

iluvalarJul 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

As a support main, if I se the enemy ADC [other than Urgot] build a tear, I will be all up on thier ass zoning them off of CS. Pickaxe/BF Sword vs Tear makes for a very one-sided trades.

With tears I get perma rockets, which gives the most AA range in the game. That pickaxe will never touch me and it will be pretty one-sided in MY favor. You'd be pocked to death. Beside, between pickpocket and spellthiefs, I'll do 3 cs worth of gold out of you anyway, so i won't even really lose gold.

{quoted} When you kill a minion, it disables the spell thief passive. It's really, really, really, really, really, terrible. You can do whatever you want, but don't expect people to like it when your build makes the game harder.

The proc is down for 12 seconds, but the spellthief keep stacking its charge. If you can time your cs so there is less then 18 seconds between the first and last, the you can make gold out of it. I can read the stats all games long, I can tell It proc about 50% of the maximum amount. Without me playing any different then usual. I make 4.5Gp10 with it.

It would take 13 minutes to repay entirely, but if you take into account the 180 gold of mana regen + the selling price of 146 gold, you break even in 90 seconds. Without taking in account the 30 dmg per minute extra I put on my opponents.

I'm not saying it's ideal, but i'm saying it's not by far a total waste of that 365 gold. I also have more potions in laning phase that if i was going for doran route.

IllllllIIIIlllllJul 10, 20151 votes

Well, to be fair, there's builds like item 3004 item 3078 item 3085 item 3072 item 3508 item 3035 and then there's builds like item 3009 item 3006 item 3020 item 3117 item 3158 item 3047

WalkingInACircleJul 10, 20151 votes

Meh, items are kinda best not overthought. Because you never really know how much gold you'll go back to base with or when you'll have to adapt your build anyway.

...but I love building too.

iluvalarJul 10, 20151 votes

I'm oversimplifying of course. Rushing rabandon on Vayne is a total waste of gold obviously. But let's say that 80% of the items are in a 8%-12% upgrade per 100 gold. There is a lot of items which are not considered "core" at all which could fair pretty well anyway.

I'm not saying there is no optimization possible or that there is no item better then other. I guess the real point of this post is to point out that the impact in a game from being toxic and starting to overthink your teamates builds outweight by far the little disadvantage they might have got from not choosing the pure meta items.

OhBoyItsaMegamanJul 10, 20151 votes

But even at a glance, most items aren't even close. There's an unquestionably superior choice.

Consider Cloak (730g) vs Pickaxe (875g) as a buy on first back. The Cloak gives 15% crit, meaning that your overall damage per second from autoattacks is 15% higher. The cost on a Pickaxe is 20% higher, so you'd be expecting an 18% damage increase, right? Even if it's 20%-25%, you're still in the same ballpark.

If we assume that the adc started Doran's and has normal runes/masteries, they probably have about 83 AD. Adding 25 AD is a 30% damage increase. It also increases the damage output of AD-scaling non-crit abilities and improves last hitting more than a random crit chance would. There's no contest. It is fully twice as good as a Cloak on autoattacks alone (plus additonal benefits) for only 20% more cost.

I didn't cheat and use a Rabadon's here; these are two items that are both IE components and grant the stats that adcs need. I can assure you that you are wrong if you think that 3000 gold gives even remotely the same amount of power whether you spend it on IE or Manamune + Avarice.

iluvalarJul 10, 20151 votes

Don't you overthink it a bit ? Yes you are right crit% is usualy speaking a pretty sub optimal first back item. just by the fact that your AD (with which it multiply) is lower on that point. At the end, we are demonstrating that a player after the first back will be more or less 10% stronger after spending 1k gold. It is still only 10% often a single spear from nidalee or other can have a bigger impact then this. So really, there is no reason to go on tilt and start to throw your own game for this gap.

Again, the tear along with the mediation mastery give me access to 9 rockets per wave. It makes the rockets my new basic attack. That's 10% AD, a huge chance to deal extra dmg in AOE (25% at least) and 150 units of range. It's by far superior to the 30% bonus from the pickaxe. It's also superior to the 20% CS and 250% dmg from the IE. I think you underestimate the mana part of the manamune.

Other ADC can use it btw. Kog could ult every 5 seconds and Urgot could shield and Q at will.