Getting less Items than your opponents is like playing Texas Hold’em with just 1 card on your hand

BigFBear·Jul 19, 2019·64 votes·13,322 views

TFT and Poker are both games with a certain amount of RNG. In Poker you don't know what cards you're gonna get and in TFT you dont know what champs or items you're gonna get.

You can have luck with good champ- and item-combinations or bad luck whith not getting your tripples or getting the wrong items. This is a healthy amount of RNG.

But getting 0 Items or 1 item while others get 3 items is like playing Texas Holdem with just one card. You have a very low chance to build a Straight, Flush or Full House! And that makes it very unlikely to win.

Get everyone the same amount of items!

33 Comments

General Esdeath Jul 19, 20196 votes

That's actually a pretty good analogy.

You don't know what items (cards) you get, but you at least get them. And some items ( item 3161 item 3026 , Ace, King) are more valuable but you can play around them and strategize.

SedosJul 19, 20194 votes

That's nothing, yesterday I had a game where I went nobles and saw no Garen at all until stage 4-3 or so, then I ran into somebody with a 3 star Garen... at the end of the game I had two 1 star Garens. Balanced, lol.

BigFBearJul 19, 201910 votes

well i think thats part of the healty amount of RNG. Everyone picks from the same pool. If there is an opponent who steals all the Garens, there are no Garens left for you. Simple.

Thats why "pros" check the builds of other players. If you see other players trying to build the same thing as you, you should change your strategy or you will get problems.

hoganftwJul 19, 20193 votes

{quoted}

well i think thats part of the healty amount of RNG. Everyone picks from the same pool. If there is an opponent who steals all the Garens, there are no Garens left for you. Simple.

Thats why "pros" check the builds of other players. If you see other players trying to build the same thing as you, you should change your strategy or you will get problems.

I agree. That's a strategic element of the game, one that actually requires skill and awareness to understand. Getting an item doesn't really require any skill, it just requires luck. I'm all for luck and RNG in the right places, but item drops regardless of what they actually drop, need to be guaranteed.

ShadWoooJul 19, 20193 votes

I played over 100 games of TFT and I will tell you one thing.

I was thinking that it is worth it to take something else because shared pool. Guess what. It doesn't matter. Shared pool or not, there should be tons of copied of the same character in pool. But you might not see one in the whole game.

I am not even sure the pool is really shared to be honest. It seems like everyone got their own personal pool "eaten" from the whole pool. Not even sure if selling units puts them into other players pools. I am definitely seeing the units I sold in the store for entire game and they keep showing every second reroll maybe even more than that.

Lol wiki state there are 39 copies of gold1 units. That means that 4 players could be able to complete rank3 on gold1 unit and there would still be some copies left. Yet sometimes no matter how much you roll you won't get those 9 copies despite there is no other player buying the same unit.

I would like to create some test games to try verify this but so far I wasn't able to find enough players willing to help me with that. As this would require 8 premades.

We Are Venom336Jul 19, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I played over 100 games of TFT and I will tell you one thing.

I was thinking that it is worth it to take something else because shared pool. Guess what. It doesn't matter. Shared pool or not, there should be tons of copied of the same character in pool. But you might not see one in the whole game.

I am not even sure the pool is really shared to be honest. It seems like everyone got their own personal pool "eaten" from the whole pool. Not even sure if selling units puts them into other players pools. I am definitely seeing the units I sold in the store for entire game and they keep showing every second reroll maybe even more than that.

Lol wiki state there are 39 copies of gold1 units. That means that 4 players could be able to complete rank3 on gold1 unit and there would still be some copies left. Yet sometimes no matter how much you roll you won't get those 9 copies despite there is no other player buying the same unit.

I would like to create some test games to try verify this but so far I wasn't able to find enough players willing to help me with that. As this would require 8 premades.

id have to agree wit this......u can be looking for say a gnar for i dunno 20 rolls n no1 has a gnar on the bench or on the battlefield yet u will not get one card.....iv experienced this n iv seen streamers complain about it too

iainB85Jul 20, 20193 votes

I think that's just the nature of RNG personally. If you happened to flip a coin 10 times and 9 times it was tails, you might think the coin was weighted. But you could flip it another 10 times and get 5/5 heads/tails. RNG easily leads to bias when you get unlucky rolls/flips.

Why do I think this? I don't see any reason why Riot would go out of their way to rig champion roles against the player. There's no personal gain in that for them -- it's not like we're spending really money on these champion rerolls. It's in their benefit to make the game as fair as possible in the long run, so this would be nothing but personal sabotage for them.

Making poor decision choices and offering a gold instead of an item is one thing, but deviously skewing the champion reroll pools to screw over players just doesn't make sense.

ShadWoooJul 20, 20191 votes

I am not claiming riot is sabotaging my rerolls. I claim that it doesn't really seems the pool is shared and instead each player has his own pool and thus no matter how much you roll it is very likely you will never complete that champ to rank3.

Sire HippingtonJul 20, 20191 votes

The shared pool doesn't really work like that for tier 1 champs, their pool is big enough for multiple players to go for the same champ, and even if the chances to get a lvl 3 get smaller, getting atleast 1 is still very likely. Even with 3 people haveing a 3 star garen, there would still be twice as many garens than leonas or kayles left in the pool The shared pool only carries weight for tier 3+ champs or when you aim for lvl 3, and even then it's not a big impact unless MULTIPLE other players go for it.

PhreaktasticJul 19, 20193 votes

{quoted}

That's nothing, yesterday I had a game where I went nobles and saw no Garen at all until stage 4-3 or so, then I ran into somebody with a 3 star Garen... at the end of the game I had two 1 star Garens. Balanced, lol.

I mean, this is simple logic. It's a shared pool. The only RNG playing a factor here was in the early game, when he was likely presented with Garens in stage 1 and you were not. Beyond that, you should've been looking to see who was building Garen. Since you didn't, and you are shocked that someone else had a T3 Garen while you saw none of them, I'm going to go out on a limb and say you don't quite understand the shared champion pool. You have to play around it.

In fact, it is 100% feasible that said player saw your Noble comp and picked up every single Garen they could, just so you couldn't get a T2/T3 Garen on the board. This level of awareness is exactly what you were lacking in your game. Save stage 1, none of this is RNG at all.

Dreamx2Jul 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That's nothing, yesterday I had a game where I went nobles and saw no Garen at all until stage 4-3 or so, then I ran into somebody with a 3 star Garen... at the end of the game I had two 1 star Garens. Balanced, lol.

You have to adjust your picks based on what other players are choosing. This has nothing to do with what the OP is saying.

SukishooJul 19, 20194 votes

But getting 0 Items or 1 item while others get 3 items is like playing Texas Holdem with just one card.

I got either gold or a single item in my first few minion rounds and still manage to end within the top 4. You have to learn to play with what is given and make an advantage.

You're never going to win every game but if you play enough and learn what works when you have it, you can get by

RalinAuraJul 20, 20194 votes

It's not that you're wrong, but you're missing the point of this post. It is a reasonable comparison to a more common luck based game. If you have ever actually played Texas Hold'em, imagine getting dealt only 1 card while some others at the table were dealt the standard 2. You could still do fairly well, maybe even win, but your odds are way lower than those other players.

BigFBearJul 20, 20192 votes

Idk why you get downvotes. I guess some people just don't understand stochastic.

BigFBearJul 20, 20192 votes

Just because you hit 4th place in ONE game doesn't mean that items are not important. They are super important and when you play in high elo you will lose most of your games against people with more items than you. Maybe you can play around sometimes because your opponents are bad but its like playing Summoners Rift with 4 people against 5 and saying "well, if you are good you can play around it". Yeah.... but if the enemy is good too you will lose.

SukishooJul 20, 20191 votes

I never WHAT I hit, I just said I was within the top 4, cause I know how to turn it around and have done it multiple times.

BigFBearJul 20, 20192 votes

Oh wow you must be such a pro that you can do that. But you still don't get the point. If you play vs a player on your exact skill lvl, the one with more items win at least 8/10 games. Simple! Maybe go and google "statistics" and "stochastic" before you try to make a discussion here.

But you are right: items are not important. Not at all. So let's just stay with this item randomness. Why not make even more RNG? Let's make it 100% RNG like roulette. Must be fun.

I had a game yesterday where I play vs someone who had 11 items after the third Creep-Round (Wolfes) I had 4 items at that point. Guess what: he won the game even before the 4th carousel. Try to win that with your smart "I know how to turn it around".

SukishooJul 20, 20191 votes

No, I get it, you're mad cause you don't understand the game clearly.

BigFBearJul 20, 20192 votes

Dude.. It's MATH. Idk what's so hard to understand about it.

Take two players on the same skill level. Give one of them 2 items and the other 6 items. Guess who will win?

The only reason why you made your post was because you want to impress someone.

This thread is about too much RNG and not your shitty "but i had a few games where i won with less items"

You are currently in Bronze 4 ofc you win a lot while climbing to your final Elo. When I start ranked 2 days ago i got first place almost everytime because it's Iron 4!

If I make a Smurf Acc in normal LoL and play in Gold as Dia player I can also win with less items than my opponents. But that's not because items are weak, it's because my opponents are bad.

Should we make item slots in normal LoL RNG too now??

If you reach your skill cap in ranked ladder someday you will maybe realize that items count if you play against players who are as good as you.

JanakinJul 19, 20192 votes

You can still get a Pair, a 2 Pair, 3 of a kind but no Straight, no Flush no Full House!

How come you can not get Straight? If there is, let's say, 2 7 8 9 10 and you have J, then you have Straight, don't you? How come you can not get Flush? If there is, let's say, Heart, Heart, Heart, Heart, Spades and you have Heart, then you have Flush, don't you? How come you can not get Full House? If there is, let's say, A A K K 10 and you have A, then you have Full House, don't you?

I am strongly against that variable number of items shit but this sentence just surprised me :D.

BigFBearJul 19, 20192 votes

yeah you are right. in my head it was like 3 fitting cards on the table.

Ofc, when its 4 fitting cards u can get everything with one card.

My bad.

Nea104Jul 19, 20192 votes

Nearly almost every card game is based upon the same general system. TFT is a card game, so you can't play it blindfolded, of course, but the RNG component will always be relevant. At the moment it's just too relevant, and I bet (pun intended) that they won't change it much.

CameramonJul 20, 20192 votes

This is fundamentally the difference between input randomness (randomness that happens before any decisions can be made and that can allow equal decisions to be made) and output randomness (randomness that simply changes the result of your decision without you having any say in it). Input randomness is a healthy thing, and TFT already has it in champion rolls and what exact item you get. Output randomness is extremely unhealthy, and should never exist. Unfortunately, it seems Riot have actually changed their mind on that for some inexplicable reason, giving us output randomness in TFT, and also not fixing crits output randomness despite promising to do so.

J EpsteinJul 20, 20192 votes

I've wanted to make a post about this for awhile now, but figured I make enough rant posts that I never did.

Also consider how unfair it would be if some people were allowed to pick 2-4 champs/ items during carousel while some got 0-1. Doesn't sound fair does it? so why is it ok for item drop numbers? it's not.

InfernapeJul 20, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hakaishin Yamcha,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=Ul7OuW0K,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-07-20T02:58:35.532+0000)

I've wanted to make a post about this for awhile now, but figured I make enough rant posts that I never did.

Also consider how unfair it would be if some people were allowed to pick 2-4 champs/ items during carousel while some got 0-1. Doesn't sound fair does it? so why is it ok for item drop numbers? it's not.

Especially with how powerful items are in TFT compared to Auto Chess.

Busty DemonJul 20, 20192 votes

I don't care about item RNG. I care about number of items distribution. Don't give me one gold while others get 4 items completed. That's all i need.

MaskedMadnessJul 20, 20191 votes

i have a post about how TFT is mainly RNG rather then actual skill. in the comments i make the poker comparision that in poker even though you could have a bad hand, you can mind game to make people believe you have a good one

in tft if you get a bad hand you literally have no way around it like poker

BigFBearJul 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

i have a post about how TFT is mainly RNG rather then actual skill. in the comments i make the poker comparision that in poker even though you could have a bad hand, you can mind game to make people believe you have a good one

in tft if you get a bad hand you literally have no way around it like poker

Ofc you can't bluff in TFT. I didn't say TFT is 1:1 like Poker. But there are many similarities in both games.

Kala MNKJul 20, 20191 votes

I don't play Dota at all. But after looking at TFT I've checked Dota underlords and it's way better. You can ever play it on smartphones. I like lol over Dota, but on this auto chess mode, I wouldn't touch TFT.

BarkleyJul 20, 20191 votes

The fact this doesn't have 100 more upvotes is disappointing.

FF20 MarshmallowJul 20, 20191 votes

And that's why i don't buy into that whole autochess hype. It's literally just a card game but with champions and i get a lot of hate from people who only play TFT whenever i say so.