Some Rioter wrote a couple days ago that they cant abandon autofill without double or tripple queue time. I would say: ok.... DO IT!
90% of my lostgames are because of autofills!
Syrile17 votesAgreed. Full-stop.
KirbyCake12 votesNot that simple. If you were to design a system with absolutely no auto fills, the queue times would increase indefinitely. The queues would be bottle necked by the least played roles and the other people queueing up for other roles would stack up.
BigFBear11 votesone of the Rioters who are responsible for queue said "doubled or trippled"
sir d wreck2 votesone of the Rioters who are responsible for queue said "doubled or trippled"
I think one of the issues with this was that people in high elo would have to wait really, really long times if their queue was doubled or tripled. I don't know a good solution, or have a side one way or another, but I remember Riot mentioning this a while back. For most elos it would be fine, but for high elo it would be unreasonable.
Votable Jester9 votesCould always just make autofill only for high elo then.
3TWarrior2 votesby like two to 10 minutes
back when league used the old system, queue times for diamond and above could reach 40 minutes...I believe it was due to another effect but I do not remember what
KirbyCake5 votesby like two to 10 minutes
back when league used the old system, queue times for diamond and above could reach 40 minutes...I believe it was due to another effect but I do not remember what
Old system was they waited longer to auto fill somebody. Reasoning is that the system knows that it is going to auto fill somebody so why not do it earlier?
The fact that people do not queue up for all roles evenly will bottleneck any queue system by the least played role. It doesn't take long before queue times get out of control if you don't auto fill people.
Assume you have 100 people who queue and 15% of people queue top. then you have 25 people stuck queueing. 5 minutes later another 100 people join queue and 15% of those 100 play top. You will have 50 people stuck queueing after that point.
Now I don't have the data on riot's queue system and what % of people are queueing up each role but the fact that they are auto filling at all means there is a bottleneck and queue times can increase indefinitely.
3TWarrior3 votesumm, no, the old system was the free for all "get it first by call or negotiate for the position" system that was present until the end of season 5
if it were a fair system, it likely would have only placed you into teams with people of equal or higher rank so that we don't get situations with platinum against challenger, etc, but now the system seems to allow differences as great as multiple categories apart for the sake of making matches faster
Big Salami Tommy3 votesNot that simple. If you were to design a system with absolutely no auto fills, the queue times would increase indefinitely. The queues would be bottle necked by the least played roles and the other people queueing up for other roles would stack up.
you mean to tell me before season 6 the queues were infinite?? and how many people play this game?
haaaaaaalp2 votesNot that simple. If you were to design a system with absolutely no auto fills, the queue times would increase indefinitely. The queues would be bottle necked by the least played roles and the other people queueing up for other roles would stack up.
That is actually blatently false. You rotate the same players back into the pool after a game ends. Queue times hit a steady state, they don’t keep going up.
Yboat1 votesThat is actually blatently false. You rotate the same players back into the pool after a game ends. Queue times hit a steady state, they don’t keep going up.
Yes, but it will never get there as people will leave que r, players will stop playing. I don't have a prob waiting 10 or even 20 mins for a game, longer then that it's a prob. Like my last 3 games, all under 3 mins. In every one of those games my mid laner did less then 10k damage and one only did 1900 as ahri in a 4x min game. I would gladly wait 10 mins. Not to have those players again. I fill 90% of the time as I enjoy it. It's just when you get in instant que and you get that it really turns you off too the game. Time in que for a good game is ok, time for crap game is not. Seems too be happening more often lately
Quiet Dude10 votesAuto fills are the spice of life though. They are the wild card and make things unpredictable
Midg3t35 votes[{quoted}](name=Quiet Dude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6HqiF7H,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-28T16:11:42.406+0000)
Auto fills are the spice of life though. They are the wild card and make things unpredictable
Which is something we really want in soloq....not rly.
Quiet Dude3 votesOh, well good luck with that then
Tobykachu9 votesThey absolutely are predictable. It's an almost guaranteed loss if they put an autofill against a main of that role.
Starcraft243ver3 votesNo it's not, as long as the guy has half a brain and aknowledge he should play a passive lane on a champion who can clean easily.
Now when the support main starts playing Cassio top, you shouldnt expect anything good, but it has nothing to do with being autofilled, it's just a lack of basic logic.
Tobykachu3 votesIt's not a lack of basic logic, it's a lack of understanding the ins and outs of a certain role. Someone who mains top lane will understand exactly when their champion is strong, when the enemy champion is strong, when the enemy jungler in near them and play safe etc whilst someone autofilled won't know any of that and are reduced to hoping their team can carry them.
Starcraft243ver3 votesNope. You dont need to understand your role in order to not feed, not get caugh and not garantee a loss for your team. Yes you are unlikely to carry, but you dont need to carry. Not being a dead weight the rare times you are autofill is enough.
Tobykachu2 votesUnless you get autofilled to support/adc and get hooked by Thresh/Pyke/Blitzcrank or all ined by a Leona or Alistar. Or you get autofilled jungle and are getting perma invaded by a Xin Zhao/Graves/Kindred. Or you get autofilled top and are against someone such as Pantheon who jump on you every time you try to get any cs.
Starcraft243ver1 votesThen you play sivir or cait and just clear. (or you play Morgana supp) If you are toplane you play a ranged safe champion and you play the farm game as well. (IE Malzar top)
The only difficulty is to be humble enough to recognize that, being autofilled, you will not shine, you will not carry, but at least you can help your team and not be a dead weight.
Tobykachu1 votesIf that was how Riot intended for you to play auto fill, then it'd be a reportable offense if someone first timed Riven and went 2/11/3 (it isn't).
Regardless, a good player has the potential to annihilate someone autofilled to a lane they aren't familiar with no matter what champion they play.
Starcraft243ver1 votesRegardless, a good player has the potential to annihilate someone autofilled to a lane they aren't familiar with no matter what champion they play.
x Doubt. If you face a good player (which only happens when you are in the top 0.1%), you are also good enough to hold a lane.
If you are not in the top 0.1% you can't face good players since you are not one yourself.
Also, most of the time while autofilled i still pick my main champion, plays a bit safer and it's fine. Since now most champions are also viable botlane....
Tobykachu1 votesTrying to debunk my argument based on what qualifies as a 'good' player is irrelevant. To an Iron player a Gold player is good and to a Gold player a Diamond player is good etc.
Most players have certain roles that they completely avoid like the plague and this argument is being made for when these players get auto filled, not when people who play an even split of each role who willingly select the fill option in lobby.
Simply put, League is a mechanical game. Each role has slight intricacies that differentiate it from the next, most notably, the champions that you'll generally be facing. Someone who has mained top lane for years will know exactly which champions do what and when they're at their strongest. Whether their enemy has a super powerful early game and which have a powerful late game and as a result need to be punished during the early game. This is a simple concept that even an auto-filled player should know. They then might be put against someone like a Fiora or Tryndamere and think that they have excellent late game and so they need to fight them early to prevent them from becoming such monsters, only for them to learn the hard way that they are very capable of fighting and winning early game under certain stipulations.
The reverse is also true. They may sit so far away from a Pantheon that they are unable to get any CS and Pantheon becomes huge just based on his CS lead. These sorts of arguments can be made with every single role in the game.
Starcraft243ver1 votesYou are taking extreme cases and turn it into generalities.
I'm not a genius, but when I pay attention i'm very capable of at least not feeding and still getting enough CS to stay revelant in the game in any role.
Not automatically by playing the role as it's supposed to be played, when i'm autofilled ADC I will play a mage because I KNOW i do not have the mecanics. When playing support vs a hard lane you might take Morgana to be extra safe, but you can also play a mage as well.
People who "can't autofill" are both lazy and not imaginative.
Tobykachu1 votesThese aren't extreme cases. This sort of thing often happens when dealing with an autofilled player. Not feeding does not equate to doing well. Say you pick a mage bot lane and the enemy picks a tank, suddenly you're left with no way to deal with said tank once they get a few items.
At the end of the day playing League of Legends is about having fun and playing under tower to avoid feeding isn't fun. Playing with someone who's autofilled also isn't fun.
Starcraft243ver1 votesI as many people ruining game while being in their main role as I see autofilled people ruining in their offrole.
Back in previous seasons (5 and before) pick order ruled and people played every single role.
Bârd8 votesTrust me, no you wouldn't.
Team Builder was a thing.
We've been there.
3TWarrior4 votesteam builder was great but people were ridiculously picky. The matchmaking process was very fun and creative back then, well worth the wait but riot pulled it for "increased queue times" because meta-huggers "left" the queue any time they didn't get a perfect setup
removing the leave button unless the leader disbanded the group probably would have solved that
Iron Phantom6 votesIndeed, I'd gladly accept queues taking 3x longer to avoid autofill
200220125 votesOK, you would, but the majority would not, especially in high elo. The world doesn't revolve around you.
RtClick4 votesI think auto fill should only apply to Diamond + elo. At that level you should be experienced enough to be somewhat competent in any role. Low elo is where auto fill really screws people over, and the low elo player base is large enough for queue times to not be that bad.
Yenn3 votesI think auto fill should only apply to Diamond + elo. At that level you should be experienced enough to be somewhat competent in any role. Low elo is where auto fill really screws people over, and the low elo player base is large enough for queue times to not be that bad.
Somewhat competent doesn't fly at Diamond. If you main mid and only play top 1/20 games, you're going to get shit on by an actual top main who plays top 19/20 games.
Also, most auto-fills at Diamond+ are top and jungle, which are the two worst roles for auto-fill. If anything, it should be removed at high elo, if not entirely for ranked.
Elohaven4 votesThat's you. Not the public majority
BigFBear3 votesThat why i wrote "i". You know what "i" means? It doesn't mean "you all".
And btw. this thread has 66 upvotes and 14 downvotes so if you take this as representative poll it actually IS the majority.
But I think you need IQ over 70 to understand that so don't try to wrap your head around it.
Elohaven1 votesBut you posted on a public forum seeking approval for your post and acknowledgement. The fact this opinion referencing yourself is public on this boards is the same as saying "I want this change" or "I would prefer this change to be added". Thus, my counter is you are a minority in this argument. The majority, outside the boards, want less queue times and this has been proven every season.
Don't try this bravado or "holier than thou" or "I'm of superior intelligence" shit man. It's pathetic to say the least. You knew what you were doing, and now I called you out for it and you're shitting your pants as you hide behind this fabricated wall of security. "I put 'I' hurr durr I didn't mean for people to notice it" - then why post at all.
And btw. this thread has 66 upvotes and 14 downvotes so if you take this as representative poll it actually IS the majority.
How are you going to insult IQ when you can't even understand my post and take a post of such a small sample size as the majority and can't even participate in a forum properly
You didn't come here for a discussion. You came with a fixed mindset and when someone throws a sensible argument at you, you bark and moan at it rather than construct an actual rebuttal.
BigFBear2 votesDude, i just wrote down my opinion, nothing more. And yes.... if i could play without Autofills by just doubled or trippled queue i would prefer it. ofc. Otherwise i wouldnt post it here would i?
I dont know why you have to write "thats you! not the public majority" did i ever say that?? I know that this is MY opinion you smartass. You dont need to clarify that.
And btw. how do YOU know what the public majority wants? Actually you are the one who pretend to know what everyone wants :D I just posted my own opinion, YOU said "they all want something else". So its looks like i have a mini poll with 84 participants to back up my opinion. What do you have?
rofl, your thinking is so bizarre.
Elohaven1 votesIt's been proven because:
My "know" is based on supported evidence that I gave.
Yes, it's your opinion but it's hypocritical when you complain when someone criticizes it on a public forum. What did you expect? The point of a forum is for discussion upon disagreements, and that's what I also gave: an opinion.
Except, in my case, I gave evidence to support my statement rather than immediately retort to insults.
Also, just look at the comments. There's already people repeating the same thing I said.
BigFBear2 votesWhere did Riot said that most people dont want queue time doubled or trippled if autofill would be gone??
"its known" is not a valid argument xD
"its been mentioned in pro play" some pro players said that most people dont want that? How do they know? Did they do a survey too?
What Riots "goals" are doesn't have to have anything to do with what people want.
"in the west"... "many"... Where? did you count them? Its like your second argument "its known" Again, i have a mini poll here. You just come with arguments like "ehm... some guys mentioned" but i cant see any evidence.
check mate dude, sry.
Elohaven1 votesI just gave you pretty substantial evidence. The comments here show the same repeated comment that it’s your opinion and disagreements if you want to go “I have a mini poll in my domain so i am right.” Again, this mini poll is insignificant statistically. It has no meaning and a statistical bias.
Pro-players like Doubelift state this because they are also a voice for the community such as when they spoke against the ADC changes that gutted them and the games meta.
You say checkmate but don’t know is what it means. Get off your high horse
BigFBear1 votesCheck! Mate! Dude
Why you still try to win this conversation when I already did.
And it's so cute how you downvote every single post from me after you answered :D Like "ha! Take this too!" You are really hardcore xD
Elohaven1 votesYou proceed to remain willingly ignorant and claim you're absolute. I don't get how you think/see you won anything when you didn't even address my claims. Lol.
You can live in your little world though bud.
Doge20203 votesRiot should make two systems then, one option is matchmaking without auto fill and the other is with auto fill.
That way high elo, or those that want it, have auto fill to make their queue time faster. But there is another system/option for those that don’t want autofill, and doesn’t mind longer queue times.
This could be an option in the game mode selection screen or a button that you have to press when in the lobby
ModAcademy Kayn3 votesRiot already tried something like this internally. What happens, is that this creates a snowball effect, allowing people to choose whether or not to enable autofill. Let's say that 50% of people choose to disable autofill. The 50% of people who didn't, are now autofilling more often to make up for the folk who have disabled it, resulting in more people being autofilled. With people getting autofilled more constantly, people get sick of it, and choose to disable autofill.
This leads the people who didn't disable getting autofilled even more often, and then they start rarely getting the roles they want to play, which leads to them disabling it, rinse, repeat, rinse, repeat. Autofill may be a burden for a few folk, but it needs to be a shared burden, so that the effect is minimal for the player.
Yboat1 votesI get that at the higher elo auto fills are not as good at every roll as the one they main. The real question is why they are so bad at other roles. If your a x elo at position y, why are you whole divisions worse at position z. Seems to me that this is a player base issue, not so much a mm issue. Maybe it's all my hots exp where you don't pick a role. Is it really such a bad thing to go into norms to get up to par with a 2nd or 3rd role?
Serika Zero1 votesI get that at the higher elo auto fills are not as good at every roll as the one they main. The real question is why they are so bad at other roles. If your a x elo at position y, why are you whole divisions worse at position z. Seems to me that this is a player base issue, not so much a mm issue. Maybe it's all my hots exp where you don't pick a role. Is it really such a bad thing to go into norms to get up to par with a 2nd or 3rd role?
Because specialization. you don't go to a doctor and ask that person to give you legal advice about how you slept with your secretary or money laundry. you don't go to an it guy and ask him to get you hooked up with girls. nor do you go to a dj and ask for medical advice about your lower back pain.
Why is such an obvious answer still not understood by this community?
Yboat2 votes[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6HqiF7H,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2019-01-29T15:15:41.422+0000)
Because specialization. you don't go to a doctor and ask that person to give you legal advice about how you slept with your secretary or money laundry. you don't go to an it guy and ask him to get you hooked up with girls. nor do you go to a dj and ask for medical advice about your lower back pain.
Why is such an obvious answer still not understood by this community?
Only you are not doing that. You are asking some one in that field a question that they should know. A doctor should know what ekg stands for regardless of thier speciality. If you can not play every role in this game at least to the point where you don't feed, you should not be playing ranked. Playing all positions will give you a greater understanding of the game.
It's just like if you have a prob playing vs x champion. One of the best ways to fix that is to play that champ. That way you have a better understanding of them , know how to exploit thier weakness and play around thier strength
Serika Zero1 votesyes that's the point. And you ask a doctor what an ekg stands for, and they might know. And tell you. You ask a top laner about wave control on mid lane, and they might now.
You ask a top laner to play support, you're fucked. Likewise for support to top. Or worse, jungle. However, just because you ask a doctor what an ekg means, doesn't mean you should expect an actual answer.
Like, I'm a software developer, but i don't know the definitions to most things, so if I'm asked about "gimme the definition of static", "tell me the characteristics of classes", "what does encapsulation mean", I got no flipping clue. But when something has to be done, and i understand what has to be done. I can implement it and make it happen in a pretty efficient manner.
That's the thing about specialization. And this is what happens in Lol. To a large degree with roles and to a pretty high degrees with champions.
That's why there are so many "one tricks" (or people that play 3 or less champions) at higher elos (above gold). Because they specialized into learning a role, learning how it works, and how to play their champion in that role. How to trade, when to roam, when to gank, when to engage, when to disengage, etc. And most of that is learned subconsciously, as most of us don't make it an active part of their day to get better at this game.
And that's why, back to the initial point. Someone that might be diamond or challanger in mid lane. Is most likely to suck as support. Even if they are amazing on lets say Yasuo or Zed mid. They will most likely be much weaker on Annie for example. While my peak was only plat, I was able to play stuff like pre rework malzahar, diana and pre rework akali on mid at a pretty high level. But if I were put to play lets say Zed, Yasuo, Talon, Fizz, Annie, Vel'Coz, reworked Malzahar, etc. My skill level would drop to gold tier to low gold tier. And I wouldn't be able to win lane or carry games.
Because specialization is a thing. You know how to play against X doesn't matter THAT much. Like lets say: You play top and you are mid or support or adc main, you know darius has a grab, a slow, a heal and an armor shread. And if he attacks you to much, you will blead and his ult will do true dmg. What you do NOT know: when can you trade with darius? how many auto attacks from him can you eat before you HAVE to back out? if he does grab you, do you flash right away, or you trade with him? what do you build as first item, should you go defensive or offensive? do you take tp or ignite? can darius tower dive you? can he freeze the wave? what the fuck do you do when the wave is frozen? and more.
just because "oh wow, i know how the enemy champion plays" isn't enough. And the discrepancy of someone that knows all the little details is muuuuuuuuuuch higher and punishing at higher elos (high dia+). Because those small details make the difference between who is dying and who is surviving. Its a game of who makes the least amount of mistakes wins. In bronze, silver and gold people make mistakes all the time. Even in plat and dia mistakes happen at like at least several times per game. I don't know if i ever had a game where I could say "i played this perfectly, there was nothing i could've done better". So ofc, when both of you make mistakes, then, the "gap" doesn't matter as much, as when a mistake is large enough, you can turn the tide. But the higher elo you go, the less mistakes are being done. And the harder it is to turn the tide. And that's why, specialization pays off so hard.
Again, you don't go to ask a doctor (ie: a top laner) how to do your legal strategy in a case of money laundering and tax evasions (support). You don't ask the ship captain (adc) how long will the surgery take and what are the odds you will survive And you won't ask your lawyer (support) how long till you reach the land as you've been on the see for 3 days now.
Yboat1 votes[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J6HqiF7H,comment-id=0011000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T19:41:43.275+0000)
yes that's the point. And you ask a doctor what an ekg stands for, and they might know. And tell you. You ask a top laner about wave control on mid lane, and they might now.
You ask a top laner to play support, you're fucked. Likewise for support to top. Or worse, jungle. However, just because you ask a doctor what an ekg means, doesn't mean you should expect an actual answer.
Like, I'm a software developer, but i don't know the definitions to most things, so if I'm asked about "gimme the definition of static", "tell me the characteristics of classes", "what does encapsulation mean", I got no flipping clue. But when something has to be done, and i understand what has to be done. I can implement it and make it happen in a pretty efficient manner.
That's the thing about specialization. And this is what happens in Lol. To a large degree with roles and to a pretty high degrees with champions.
That's why there are so many "one tricks" (or people that play 3 or less champions) at higher elos (above gold). Because they specialized into learning a role, learning how it works, and how to play their champion in that role. How to trade, when to roam, when to gank, when to engage, when to disengage, etc. And most of that is learned subconsciously, as most of us don't make it an active part of their day to get better at this game.
And that's why, back to the initial point. Someone that might be diamond or challanger in mid lane. Is most likely to suck as support. Even if they are amazing on lets say Yasuo or Zed mid. They will most likely be much weaker on Annie for example. While my peak was only plat, I was able to play stuff like pre rework malzahar, diana and pre rework akali on mid at a pretty high level. But if I were put to play lets say Zed, Yasuo, Talon, Fizz, Annie, Vel'Coz, reworked Malzahar, etc. My skill level would drop to gold tier to low gold tier. And I wouldn't be able to win lane or carry games.
Because specialization is a thing. You know how to play against X doesn't matter THAT much. Like lets say: You play top and you are mid or support or adc main, you know darius has a grab, a slow, a heal and an armor shread. And if he attacks you to much, you will blead and his ult will do true dmg. What you do NOT know: when can you trade with darius? how many auto attacks from him can you eat before you HAVE to back out? if he does grab you, do you flash right away, or you trade with him? what do you build as first item, should you go defensive or offensive? do you take tp or ignite? can darius tower dive you? can he freeze the wave? what the fuck do you do when the wave is frozen? and more.
just because "oh wow, i know how the enemy champion plays" isn't enough. And the discrepancy of someone that knows all the little details is muuuuuuuuuuch higher and punishing at higher elos (high dia+). Because those small details make the difference between who is dying and who is surviving. Its a game of who makes the least amount of mistakes wins. In bronze, silver and gold people make mistakes all the time. Even in plat and dia mistakes happen at like at least several times per game. I don't know if i ever had a game where I could say "i played this perfectly, there was nothing i could've done better". So ofc, when both of you make mistakes, then, the "gap" doesn't matter as much, as when a mistake is large enough, you can turn the tide. But the higher elo you go, the less mistakes are being done. And the harder it is to turn the tide. And that's why, specialization pays off so hard.
Again, you don't go to ask a doctor (ie: a top laner) how to do your legal strategy in a case of money laundering and tax evasions (support). You don't ask the ship captain (adc) how long will the surgery take and what are the odds you will survive And you won't ask your lawyer (support) how long till you reach the land as you've been on the see for 3 days now.
If your doctor does not know what ekg stands for, get a new doctor. That is what I am saying. This is not a mm issue,but a player base issue. Over spealizing is bad for and the game
Serika Zero1 votesOver specialization is not a player base issue. It's a human issue. That's how we, humans, were able to get where we are. So, you either go with the scientific route, and this behavior of specialization is ingrained in your genes, as that's how everyone before you did anything successful.
ir you go to religious route, and specialization is how God or the universe or whatever have humans categorized as. Regardless, focusing on just one are is what we are as a race, and it's rewarding. That's like saying omg, logic is so bad in math, that's why math sucks, because logic. Specialization is that basic of a thing I'm still shocked how many of you don't get it
