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Best example why matchmaking is broken (in lower elos)

BigFBear··99 votes·20,852 views

My Dia Account https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=bigfbear
-> 11 games winstreak with Voli. -> 23 wins in 28 games.

My Smurf Acc in Gold1 https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Truss -> cant even win 3 games in a row

If you dont play a hyper carry in low elo, you're just being thrown around and the only thing you can do is pray that this gambling system dont gives you another uneven game.

Listen, i dont wanna complain that i cant climb with my smurf. Actually i am part of the problem, because i am one of these smurfs in low elo that makes the game so uneven and unfun. What i wanna say is that i can totally understand the pain you're going through in Plat and below. Its literally elohell. This System isnt able to create even games like i have in Dia now. Strangely enough, as soon as i hit Dia in got only even games. 5 D4 around 53% winrate vs 5 D4 around 53% winrate. Almost every game! And suddenly i could influence the game and felt i have impact to the game. My winrate actually INCREASED after i hit Dia from 48% to 52% (its changes very slow because i needed a LOT of games to get there). And that is the point. If you dont play a meta hyper carry but maybe an off-meta brusier or tank. You need A LOOOOT of games to hit higher elos because you are related to your team and the teams are uneven. In Dia+ its actually possible to carry with tanks as you can see, because people know how to assist you in junge/at scuttle and they follow if you engage and because teams are even.

But to get there... pure agony!!

71 Comments

ChrisBrownze17 votes

Youre literally the problem. So many people smurfing creating insanely unbalanced games where the team with more/better smurfs wins and average players in that elo have zero impact on the game.

WarnercBbT14 votes

[deleted]

WAZZZUP50014 votes

Do you have the stupid?

If he's a diamond smurf who can continuously do well in his elo, there's no reason he shouldn't be able to get out of gold. There's obviously a discrepancy in the matchmaking system.

Velzard of Koz4 votes

He was responding to ChrisBrownze. And this is exactly why I didn't want Chronological View to be default.

Z3Sleeper2 votes

It’s still the default? Sad. Just another reason Reddit > Boards.

Velzard of Koz2 votes

ChV isn't the default (at least I don't think so) but they planned it to be - default and the only one. They decided not to go with that change.

Spitemaster2 votes

The problem isn't chronological view. It's that both exist concurrently. Either one is okay, just not both.

Velzard of Koz1 votes

No, even If Discussion View didn't exist you would still be able to respond to someone else on ChV the same way, it would still be displayed the same way and people would still not understand who responds to whom. WAZZZUP could acces the information to whom Warnec was responding the same way now as he would acces it If DV didn' exist. Nothing would change by removal of DV.

And If ChV doesn't exist it's just bad for people who prefer it while all that's needed is not make it default and for people to understand the difference between the two.

WarnercBbT1 votes

[deleted]

WAZZZUP5004 votes

But he's in diamond on his main, maybe you should read the post again.

WarnercBbT1 votes

[deleted]

WAZZZUP5006 votes

Well, regardless of who you're talking to, telling somebody to just "git gud" isn't going to change or help anything, it's just provocative and counter-productive.

ChrisBrownze3 votes

[deleted]

BigFBear7 votes

It has nothing to do with insecureness. The thing is when you get into higher Elos you need to be very focused every match. And that can be exhausting. Sometimes you just wanna play for fun without being hyper focused (and normals aren't an option because it's matchmaking is even worse). Also I don't wanna play Dia in the middle of the night because people play worse then and it's more coinflip. Mostly I play my first one or two games on smurf and then I play a few games on my main.

ChrisBrownze1 votes

[deleted]

WAZZZUP5008 votes

I'll paraphrase it for you, since you didn't seem to understand: OP doesn't always like to tryhard, and doesn't like normals because the matchmaking is worse. Also, he doesn't like to play at night because it's harder to play your best when you're tired.

BigFBear41 votes

Well, on the one hand you are right - i even said it myself that i am part of the problem - but it's not my fault that Riots system needs so long to detect real Elo of a Smurf and put him there faster. Or that it's so hard to climb faster as Jugg./Tank.

On the other hand, as you can see, i have so less impact as off-meta Jugg./Tank in low Elo most people wouldn't even realize i am a Smurf. In fact they even flame me "Voli trash champ" "Your champ is useless. Stay gold you hardstuck" "better Jungler wins" etc.

Z3Sleeper15 votes

I’m a Yorick onetrick but if I’m ever placed below Diamond I usually don’t even bother. I just play something braindead like Warwick or Rek Sai and abuse the dumbest player on the enemy team til I get to an ELO where playing a juggernaut (or top lane in general for that matter) is even viable.

I’ve definitely smurfed in Silver and Gold before and goddam is it truly elo hell. I’m literally a Grandmaster but I can’t carry these extreme coinflip low level games if I’m not abusing a hypercarry or extreme early game champion.

demoted to iron14 votes

A huge issue I find in silver is people not understanding how to be carried or lose gracefully. People go 0/10 instead of just giving up CS and EXP and refuse to listen. The priority is always themselves even when they could support the person with potential to carry and win.

Vinbullet2 votes

[{quoted}](name=demoted to iron,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gcetG5qi,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-08T07:29:25.754+0000)

A huge issue I find in silver is people not understanding how to be carried or lose gracefully. People go 0/10 instead of just giving up CS and EXP and refuse to listen. The priority is always themselves even when they could support the person with potential to carry and win.

This 100% they'll complain how they need ganks when they've fed to a point where their laner easily wins a 2v1. Half of them also give up on the game and become useless at that point. I understand it is a problem, but I am also having a fairly easy time climbing since I came back a couple months ago after almost 2 years. Just look at my recent win rates hehe.

New Kid11 votes

Highest I have gotten is Plat 2 and was doing decent in there a couple years ago. I haven't played in a while and my elo has dropped. I have just kind of started playing again and did rank placements and got silver 4 lol. Every game I play now I feel stressed and can barely carry hard enough to win and when I do I get few points for it. How many games will it take me to get to plat again if I am still that good? Waaayy too many no thanks the rewards are just not great enough for the pain I would have to go through for the rank. I have had to learn to ignore people because the problems are always everyone else but them. I keep thinking about what could possibly be a fix for this issue and I think a good fix would be an all around player stat elo that gives buffs to points gained or loss. If you are not feeding and getting good player dmg, you know the same stats to get S's for champs, and are continually doing that even when losing you should not lose as many points because you are not the problem. It would have to be based on all stats since people could just turtle all the time and not help team out to not die. You would need to take in dmg to players, minions killed, gold, as well as positive kda or at least a decent one. Those people should continue to move forward or not get stuck until they start to feed and not get gold or those other things. Once you are doing bad all around constantly you are out of your league. Basically a buff to how many points you can gain all around so that 1 rank (silver 4 to silver 3) doesn't sound like such a grind when your playing with a bunch of crazy kids who don't care to improve because they think they are already done learning or brand new players. That's my opinion,

Kanyoupipu5 votes

How many games will it take me to get to plat again if I am still that good? Waaayy too many no thanks

Amen dude

It isn't fun to play a "team game" when there is a 50% chance your team consists of liabilities rather than assets. It isn't fun. Any system that tries to correct this by saying "just grind 100000 games" is a flawed system.

Meteora7076 votes

this post made me go "huh it can't really be that bad" and hit up a few games of voli on my gold account, it actually was this bad lmao

Sodeb Lacudomite5 votes

I posted something similar a few days ago: My main account in season 6 was Platinum, 61% winrate over 300 games as Warwick https://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=tundra+hunter Same season, same server, my alternate account was Bronze, 27% winrate as Warwick https://oce.op.gg/summoner/userName=ir+sun+smurf

27% despite big personal stats (11/4/8 KDA for example).

For a mid elo (or high elo) player to carry low elo games, they have to adapt.
You won't win in low elo by providing good vision and map control and good calls etc..... low elo is a complete battle royal mess and personally, like the OP, I have a much worse winrate in Bronze than in Platinum. The more I climb, the easier it gets to win.

I also noticed it after a server transfer, which got my MMR reset from platinum to Bronze. My winrate kept improving as I climbed back to my elo. Not because I was improving as I was playing.... but because for me, it's easier to win at higher elo.

Walmart Porn5 votes

LOL i have the same problem though my "high and low elo" isnt the same. I peaked in mid plat 2 seasons ago and got to lazy to get any better sense the rewards arent really worth the effort after gold so ive been hovering mid gold for the last 2 seasons. In mid gold i just play what i like for fun and it just feels like an entirely different environment. I dont really have to ever go "tryhard" unless im duoing with a friend and dont want to drag them down. But then i played with one of my smurfs with my friends to try to help them with their bronze 1 to silver 4 promos and MY GOD it was aweful i had to do it like 4 times. i was playing mid and id be winning pretty decently but next thing i knew my bot would have fed a vayne 11 kills my top sion would be sitting there like what do i do now and my jungler will not have made a gank till 15 minutes in. Ive seen things like trinity singed jungle and spear of shojin teemo. What worried me the most though was the fact that the enemy team in his b1 promos to silver had a silver 1 and 2 bot lane a silver 3 yi and the rest where silver 4. Meanwhile on our team it was me, 3 bronze 3's with average 30% win rates and him and i ended up having to go tryhard adc/sup mode on jinx/lucian+braum or ashe/kench or vayne and it took so much more work than playing in gold. Honestly how on earth are actual bronze and low silver players expected to climb and get better if a mid gold smurf has to spend 3 to 4 attempts at promos just to get to s4. Its just like op playing from diamond into gold 1.

BigFBear2 votes

if you dont wanna play hypercarry you have to be very patient because you need a lot of games to slowly cripple into higher elos. But the higher you get the easier it becomes to carry with teamrelated champions like tanks etc.

Kanyoupipu5 votes

Can we get Riot to acknowledge this or comment? This thread is 100% why the game isn't fun. The system has no ability to measure individual skill whatsoever and the disparities in game are so out of control that games are dictated by the worst player rather than the best.

iDarkWind4 votes

I remenber when I was Masters and I couldn't duo with my duo mate because he was Diamond IV. Do you know what happened on the same day? I got matched with two Platinum I players, and the game itself was a complete fiesta (we ended up destroyed). So yeah, it's quite ridiculous how it is at the moment.

Tiger584 votes

I'm a high silver support player and basically this season I've been stuck in bronze 1 because I can't carry my teams and they usually feed or don't understand macro and just don't close out a game. One game I played Lux and stole a dragon and baron and my team used neither to accomplish anything except for dying and letting the other team destroy our base because the other team was fed and they were all tilted. I'm guilty of occasionally tilting as well, but it is tough to climb when you can't carry.

Jennifer4203 votes

the biggest gamble in low elo is: who plays more lategame champs. doesnt matter if toplane is kayle vs renekton, both players will behave the same way even if you tell kayle she has absolutely no chance vs renekton early, kayle will behave like its a 50/50 matchup.

noone in low elo has patience and powerspike knowledge

Raiyza5 votes

{quoted}

noone in low elo has patience and powerspike knowledge

This. This right here. THIS is the reason why I lose games. Players do not have enough game knowledge to be carried.

Jennifer4201 votes

just check my xayah game where i had 14 kills or so. played her top vs kayle. check out how much this kayle used her kleptomancy. almost none. didnt use her e to poke me once. such a horrible player and obviously said "im a smurf i dont care" lol

Mavëríck1 votes

{quoted}

This. This right here. THIS is the reason why I lose games. Players do not have enough game knowledge to be carried.

I never understood the 1v9 meme until this month. I can 60% of the time become super fed early as bs champs like Yi or Jarven. What I cannot fathom is why people don't wait for me to come feed them kills or trust me to peel for them or cover me while i go for the enemy carries.

It's like they are desperate to carry, die a bunch, then when it clicks that they should've played safe, they play too safe and don't help.

Raiyza2 votes

Yes. Lke I mentioned, it's game knowledge. A good player will know when to do certain things. A bad player will not, and that's why games cannot be carried in low elo.

Power Cosmic3 votes

If you are good but not great, Low elo is far harder bc it isn't hard it's impossible. While intuitively being good should make lower elos quite easy. The rank system is counter-intuitive, which is bad, so adjustments should be looked to be made. Maybe too much is done to protect bad players? Whatever the case, things would be better if good did not play with bad. The first step at becoming good is being effective without feeding.

Galaxyburstz3 votes

Yeah, it took some time but I eventually learned that the only way I could carry low ELO is with hyper carries

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3016113992/242976320?tab=overview

astralwit3 votes

As a fellow jg main, I agree and it's sad. You basically have to pick S tier 1v9 champs with great late game and not off meta picks like Ekko, Naut or Kench jungle. I literally first timed Yi by accident due to a client lag issue and 1v9d but can't do it on picks I'm extremely skilled on. It's just so tragic but the difference between champs in their ability to carry is just enormous. It's not just in jungle... I see my ADC pick Ezreal while the enemy goes Twitch, the game is already hard as hell. He can be really good on Ezreal and is still useless by comparison in teamfights. They generally don't do much in lane either. The better the ELO, the less you need to be raw DPS but it's very frustrating atm on a smurf. Without a 1v9 champion skill doesn't seem to matter much and I can't outcarry the coinflip even when I'm doing great individually.

forist2 votes

So, it's harder to carry with non-carry champions? What? Cmon, dude of course it is. This isn't a low elo problem or a tank champion problem, it's just how the game works. I can't even say that it is a problem tbh.

BigFBear27 votes

Read the post again. I don't complain that i can't carry as a Jugg/Tank I even said a Jugg/Tank CAN carry if teams are even. I complained about the matchmaking that isn't able to put 10 players of the same Elo and winrate in one match.

https://abload.de/img/lolp9kbz.png elo difference: gold 2 to Plat 1 winrate difference: 38% to 84%

https://abload.de/img/lollose104kdy.jpg elo difference: gold 1 to Plat 1 winrate difference: 49% to 90%

get it?

Boo Koo God4 votes

This is the problem especially after a win streak you are given lower win rate teammates. Further decreasing even matches.

MichaeliabDtAy2 votes

Matchmaking is a curse, it's literally trashing the game. Random teams would be better. When you have a 0/9 veigar, a jungler afk farming when you're under tower 9/10 of the time with your ennemy 10% hp, a 3/9 support feeding a PANTHEON SUPPORT, you know it's impossible to win. IT's so bad one might even wonder if it's not designed to intentionally screw up games.

5050BS2 votes

Yep the system FORCES you to lose at lower Elos. Especially if you have a old account. Riot does not let your Improve over time. It says nope you are trash and we will make you lose by putting trash on your team.

I have two accounts, This one is suck in Bronze and can not climb because I get 2/15 players in almost every match. My other account just got out of Bronze and is climbing because I actually get team mates that have brains most of the time. The matches are even(ish).

I play the same champions in the same roles the same way.

So the only factor is that Riot is MAKING my teams such trash you cant carry if you are close to that rank.

BigFBear1 votes

I wouldn't say it forces you to lose. It's just uneven games. I mean I had also games where I was in the stomping team. In the end it was pretty 50/50 i guess. Stomp or get stomped.

It's just that you can't really influence it. You can play shit and win when you in the stomp team. Yo can play like a god and lose when you are in the shit team. Maybe you can influence every 10tht game or so with a non carry champ. That means you climb very slowly with a winrate of 50,5 or so.

Starcraft243ver1 votes

My Smurf Acc in Gold1 https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Truss -> cant even win 3 games in a row

I see multiple occurences of you winning 3 games in a row.

ll3lackbeard19 votes

{quoted}

I see multiple occurences of you winning 3 games in a row.

Can you just try to understand what the guy is saying in general and stop being one of these nit-pick forum trolls.

Starcraft243ver2 votes

It costs him nothing to be accurate instead of saying blatant lies to try to prove a point.

Also you see this guy saying he's got even games in diamond and you see a few other threads saying d4 is the worst elo ever for matchmaking. There's absolutely no consistency between these posts but still they are all upvoted.

It doesnt make any sens.

A few reasons for his observations might be :

  • He isnt hard trying as much on his smurf as he does on his main
  • He isnt respecting his opponents as much on his smurf as he does on his main (it's my main problem when playing in a lower elo, I play ultra greedy and get punished sometimes).
  • Volibear falls off in late game, and lower elo players do not know how to close a game once they got a lead. Volibear is not a good champion to take towers and push waves so it's hard for him alone to close games. Also games lasts longer in lower elo
  • He is used to play with teammates with a decent skill and mecanics and he expects his gold partners to do the same (following well on ganks and dives) unfortunately it doesnt work.
  • He was lucky recently (After all he played 352 games with volibear this season and got 52% winrate, so his last winstreak is just "something that has reasonable chances to happen over a large number of games".)
  • Volibear is not a good champion to hard carry and 1v5, so when he plays against another smurf who took a hard carring champion, this other smurf can just roll over a lane, gets extremely fed and crush the game, while volibear is powerless.
BigFBear4 votes

Maybe you are right. Maybe I play a bit different in low Elo, maybe I am too greedy or/and expect things from my teammates I shouldn't expect. Or I get triggered too fast by dumb decisions.

But what I can REALLY say because I check op.gg. before every game is, that on my way through Plat I had the most uneven games in terms of Elo and winrate. I had Gold 3 Player vs Plat 1 Player (or even worse) and winrates between 30% and 90% almost every game. Since I am in Dia it's all even games (most of the time). Maybe I am just lucky, I don't know, but it's true.

Starcraft243ver1 votes

You are talking about elo and then you use ranks to compare, i think you just dont understand how elo and ranks work.

The matchmaking does not even look at ranks, because ranks can be meaningless. The matchmaking looks at MMR. And it's hidden.

I'd bet the gold 3 with 95% winrate wins against the plat 1 with 47% winrate.

BigFBear2 votes

Ofc they did. Did I ever say the golds were the bad players? The Golds with 80-90% wr deleted everything in those games. Because they were some Dia1 or Master Smurfs. And I know what hidden MMR is, but the system just needs too long to detect real Elo that's what i said.

Or put the 90% winrate smurfs together in one game even if it means 5 minute queue time instead of 30 seconds.

If you put 90% winrate and and 50% and 30% in one game it just can't work. The game just doesn't know for sure if someone with 27 wins out of 30 games is from Plat1, Dia1 or Grandmaster. But someone with 20 wins 20 loses in Plat is pretty sure a Plat player. So put the 50-55% players together and let them have fun. But don't mix these 90%-Smurfs or unranked players in those games.

Starcraft243ver1 votes

Problem is when you put the 90% winrate players together, they will not climb. They will get 50% winrate at the end. So they'll start to play against the 50% plat again, and crush them again.

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