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How about this for a Yas rework?

Niyumi··3 votes·407 views

So, there's a thread asking about that Yas rework Riot was planning on doing, and what happened to it. A Rioter came along and said that they've been trying ideas out, but they hadn't come up with anything they liked. So, I wrote down a rework that I thought sounded fun and solved Yas's issues, and someone told me to write my own post since it sounded like a good idea. So, I'll do just that. ^^

So, Yasuo is actually fun to play against level 1-7ish. Then he backs, buys one crit item, and can just entirely ignore his kit and statcheck you to death with his autos that crit 90% of the time with one item and do absurd damage -- then it gets to be infuriating. And when he buys lifesteal and autos you for 500-600+ on top of his Q that has a 2 second CD... he just becomes a statcheck late game with hyper mobility and all kinds of survival tools and CC.

And he really has no counterplay other than him fucking up. He has an answer to every situation.

A samurai is all about precision and control, right? So, instead of autoing at the speed of light with reckless abandon, make him into a real samurai type thing. Give him some real counterplay, and lower his bullshit synergy with lifesteal and crit items while preserving his ability-oriented gameplay and all the things that make Yasuo the very loud, drunken samurai he is.

So, first off, cap Yas's attack speed. I feel like 0.8-1.2ish would be fine. You could increase his base AD or something if you need to, or make extra AS give him bonus MS or something. There's a reason for this later on.

Passive: Honestly, his passive is fine for a melee skirmisher thing. But, there needs to be one small change:

  • His autos cannot crit.

    • Double crit still applies to Q

Q: His Q can stay the same stab thing he has, but a few changes to it:

  • First, lower the base damage.

  • Second, a passive on his Q: When Yas autos, he creates weak points on the enemy (stacking 3 times).

    • Using his Q on an enemy with this debuff will consume the stacks to make it deal X% extra damage per stack (perhaps it could pierce 15% armor per stack as well).

AS would still lower the CD on his Q

Yas does not generate stacks on his Q anymore

W: This can stay the same, but it needs to spawn in FRONT of Yas, not inside of him. Just change the animation slightly and make him slash the ground in front of him or slash upwards and make a wall of wind.

  • But if you're feeling nice, have it break after blocking an ultimate ability (still blocks the ability).

E: This one needs some changes:

First, make it a skillshot instead of targeted.

  • So Yas dashes in a straight line (speed and distance scaling with MS maybe), autoing everything he passes through (these autos can crit, and gain the double crit from his passive)

    • 100% AA damage for first target struck, 80% for second, 50% for everything else

      • If a champion is the first target struck, they gain two stacks of his auto passive thing.

  • Give it a limited number of charges, maybe 2-3, that recharges based on AS.

  • Now has a ~3s CD.

R: So, Yas's R is bullshit as it is currently. So let's give it more counterplay (which you supposedly like) and give Yas some clear windows of power where he's scary and feels good about what he's doing:

  • New passive: When Yas lands a Q on a target with 3 stacks of his auto passive, his ult activates (one cast per 3 stack Q, does not stack) -- uses the Shiiiiinng sound from the current Q stacks, and has the wind blowing around him like it does.

  • Yas's ult is now a two-part. First part, he dashes (not a blink) incredibly fast in a direction (after a slight delay, maybe 0.2ish seconds, the whole sheathe grab thing you know?). If he hits a champion, he throws them into the air (using the current E>Q tornado combo animation), and deals a small amount of damage. If a champion is thrown into the air, he leaps up after them, does his thing he does now, and slams them into the ground.

    • After casting, every auto (and first hit of E) for the next ~5s will apply three stacks of his auto passive at once.

Has a 10s CD (on both activation and second cast) per target, but otherwise has no cooldown

Now, I'm not a professional game designer, and that could very well be broken, but it preserves Yas's identity as a fast skirmisher (while enhancing the samurai feel) that relies on a lot of button mashing, combos and twitchy fingers, preserves his teamfight power (but now it's on him rather than his team stacking knockups), but adds meaningful windows of power to his kit, allows people other than himself to counterplay him, and in my opinion would make for some very high points in his gameplay that feel good, rather than just the one and done ult we have now.

Plus, since he's got some actual counterplay now, and doesn't just auto people to death (AKA, not infuriating and annoying), maybe his ban rate will go down and Yas mains can feed with play him more!

13 Comments

XkeUDhysjK1 votes

Yasuo

HalcyonDweller1 votes

This was well written, solidly explained, and some great ideas :) have my upvote!

I hope Riot notices this post.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Niyumi1 votes

Ha, you do know who I am, right? I remember you being mean to me not a few days ago. :P

But Riot doesn't want to make Yas fair, since he's lucrative as he is now, so I'm not expecting much.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

Ha, you do know who I am, right? I remember you being mean to me not a few days ago. :P

I tend to judge people on their actions, but it's not a permanent thing. If you do something rude and/or irrational then I react negatively to it, that doesn't mean I'm going to shit on your posts in the future if they are good and you have expressed them well. For example, this is an awesome post.

But Riot doesn't want to make Yas fair, since he's lucrative as he is now, so I'm not expecting much.

I'm doubtful of the 'Riot is only out for profit' conspiracy theory, they have made too many choices that benefit players to profit's detriment.

Niyumi1 votes

{quoted}

I'm doubtful of the 'Riot is only out for profit' conspiracy theory, they have made too many choices that benefit players to profit's detriment.

Selling out to Tencent, openly admitting Lee is broken but they leave him that way because he makes money at LC$, calling bugs like Jayce's transform glitch and Syndra's R stutter "worthless and pointless to fix", spending years to do what I could hire high school students to do in a week or two (to drum up hype, you know), admitting to balancing around the spotlight (AKA, cycling the brokens to sell skins)... the list goes on.

The only times they do anything to player's benefit that actually hurts profit is individual developers taking work home and doing it for free (and that guy was probably punished for that, since Lulu has other more expensive skins that look better). Nothing Riot does as a company shows off how much they "put quality above all else", or how much they "care".

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Selling Xayah and Rakan for IP, Changing runes for the sake of the game despite it being risky as a business decision, funding philanthropy efforts such as programs teaching coding, and cancer treatment groups. Stopping class reworks because they were leading to low quality reworks.

Riot arguably does make choices which hurt profits. Ignoring these choices and only focusing on other choices in order to support a conspiracy theory narrative is silly.

Just because they sold out to Tencent, doesn't mean it has been to the detriment of the game. Riot still makes decisions on their own, and Tencent leaves them alone to do that.

Lee is left the way he is because designers at Riot play the game too, and they love lee sin. It's not just a profit decision. It's something done because they favor the character.

I'm going to need sources for the Jayce and Syndra glitch, I've never heard of that before.

They balance around LCS once per year, the rest of the year it's done around average level of play. If you want me to believe that they admitted to balancing characters just to sell skins then you are going to have to provide a source for that as well. That's a little too far fetched for me to take at face value.

Niyumi1 votes

{quoted}

Changing runes for the sake of the game despite it being risky as a business decision

They're changing runes because they have better IP (now blue essence) sinks planned. They're slowing down the overall generation of the currency, and making you spend it on nearly everything you actually want. The new runes also cover up the absurdly bad balance we currently have. Let's Riot get away with milking things for awhile longer while blaming it on the runes.

funding philanthropy efforts such as programs teaching coding, and cancer treatment groups.

That was a publicity stunt. If they want to do charity, they should donate to charity regardless of what people buy.

Stopping class reworks because they were leading to low quality reworks.

A lot of the class reworks were fine. Talon, Kat, LB, Rengar, Mao, Zac (though he's broken, his kit is better now), Sej... The issue is that Riot can't drum up as much hype for a class rework, and so people spend less money on skins and whatnot.

Just because they sold out to Tencent, doesn't mean it has been to the detriment of the game. Riot still makes decisions on their own, and Tencent leaves them alone to do that.

Sure, Tencent lets Riot keep creative control, but that doesn't mean Tencent isn't a detriment. Tencent dictates how much money they can spend, how much they need to bring in, and controls pricing. We've been getting a lot of 1350 skins lately that aren't 1350 quality, we don't get borders for just buying the skins when they come out anymore, the missions system was totally perverted with paid missions, balance is arguably getting worse with Tencent in total ownership, champ reworks and releases are slowing down... It is absolutely a detriment.

Lee is left the way he is because designers at Riot play the game too, and they love lee sin. It's not just a profit decision. It's something done because they favor the character.

The post I'm talking about specifically said Lee is broken and they know it, but he's left that way because, "He brings a lot to competitive"

I'm going to need sources for the Jayce and Syndra glitch, I've never heard of that before.

Well, that thread in particular is years old. Don't know if I can find it, but I'll look. They basically said that, since the bugs are so minor and are more just annoying than game-breaking, it'd be a waste of dev resources since they're hard to fix. This despite saying they put quality above all else.

They balance around LCS once per year, the rest of the year it's done around average level of play. If you want me to believe that they admitted to balancing characters just to sell skins then you are going to have to provide a source for that as well. That's a little too far fetched for me to take at face value.

Go ask any Sej main in the game. Riot says they balance "around the spotlight" which means they cycle the brokens and milk them for a while, then move on to the others.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

The biggest problem I'm having with your argument is that you're referring to Riot as an entity. The company has plenty of employees who care deeply about the game. I think it's disrespectful to treat them all like profit monkeys who don't care about the game or the players.

I understand that you strongly believe what you are saying.... but the word choice throughout that whole comment just stinks of bias. I'd have an easier time listening to you if you didn't say things like, "milk things for a while" You have no way to prove their intent, and by speculating about that intent you misrepresent them.

"The issue is that Riot can't drum up as much hype for a class rework, and so people spend less money on skins and whatnot." This is speculation again. Unless a Rioter has outright stated this, you cannot go around claiming that it is their core reason for making that decision. Rioters have already expressed precisely why they stopped doing class reworks. When they start work on multiple projects and give them the same deadline, some of the projects are forced to make compromises at the expense of quality in order to meet that deadline. This actually goes against your argument that they don't care about quality.

Nobody can really prove or disprove most of your above claims without access to the inside and visibility to the groups / meetings where such decisions could be made. This applies to the Lee Sin example as well.

Additionally, you're attributing a lot of effects to causes that are solely correlative. Just because thing A happens after thing B happens, does not mean thing B caused thing A.

Claiming that "balance is arguably getting worse with Tencent in total ownership" is also not a good argument. Again, this is very hard to prove or disprove a connection within. I could just as easily say balance is arguably getting worse since Trump became president. Is it true? Maybe. But that has no relevance to proving whether or not Trump is at fault for balance getting worse. This applies to the rest of your examples in the paragraph about Tencent ownership as well.

tldr;

  1. I think you're being unnecessarily disrespectful to the Rioters who do care about the game by lumping them with the alleged 'profit mongers' who don't, and speculating about their intentions without any real proof to back the speculations up.

  2. Correlation does not equal causation. Thing X doesn't necessarily cause thing Y just because they occurred chronologically in time.

Niyumi1 votes

{quoted}

The biggest problem I'm having with your argument is that you're referring to Riot as an entity. The company has plenty of employees who care deeply about the game. I think it's disrespectful to treat them all like profit monkeys who don't care about the game or the players.

Oh don't get me wrong, some employees absolutely care. Remember when they reworked DT Lulu a bit? That guy took that home with him, and did the work for free just because he liked that skin and wanted it to be better for the players. Major kudos to that guy. But, individual developers don't make the decisions for Riot -- that'd be Beck, Ma and Merril. If Ma says to bring in more money, then Beck says to break some popular champs and make skins for 'em, and then the balance team has to just do what they're told.

I understand that you strongly believe what you are saying.... but the word choice throughout that whole comment just stinks of bias. I'd have an easier time listening to you if you didn't say things like, "milk things for a while" You have no way to prove their intent, and by speculating about that intent you misrepresent them.

Oh I'm absolutely biased. I can't stand greed, and I can't stand the people who destroyed the gaming genre for me (F2P companies that showed the rest of the industry how well garbage sells).

"The issue is that Riot can't drum up as much hype for a class rework, and so people spend less money on skins and whatnot." This is speculation again. Unless a Rioter has outright stated this, you cannot go around claiming that it is their core reason for making that decision. Rioters have already expressed precisely why they stopped doing class reworks. When they start work on multiple projects and give them the same deadline, some of the projects are forced to make compromises at the expense of quality in order to meet that deadline. This actually goes against your argument that they don't care about quality.

I've worked in the gaming industry a bit, interned at a handful of companies, did a few job shadows. (I live in the Seattle area, so there are TONS of gaming companies here) I know how it all works, and I can pretty reasonably guess the motives behind certain things a company like Riot does. They'll make some cheesy PR speech that talks about poor quality and all that, but that doesn't mean it's true at all.

Nobody can really prove or disprove most of your above claims without access to the inside and visibility to the groups / meetings where such decisions could be made. This applies to the Lee Sin example as well.

I can't prove it, but I can look at all the things Rioters say, all the things they do, and the way they run their business -- combined with my game dev experience, I can make a pretty good assumption.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

{quoted}

Oh don't get me wrong, some employees absolutely care. Remember when they reworked DT Lulu a bit? That guy took that home with him, and did the work for free just because he liked that skin and wanted it to be better for the players. Major kudos to that guy. But, individual developers don't make the decisions for Riot -- that'd be Beck, Ma and Merril. If Ma says to bring in more money, then Beck says to break some popular champs and make skins for 'em, and then the balance team has to just do what they're told.

If you have a recording or video of such decisions being made by those people or if you can find evidence of a credible source such as a Riot employee (former or current) confirming this then I would be inclined to believe you. Until then I will remain skeptical.

Oh I'm absolutely biased. I can't stand greed, and I can't stand the people who destroyed the gaming genre for me (F2P companies that showed the rest of the industry how well garbage sells).

I can't stand greed either, but I'm wary of assuming greed when there isn't proof.

I've worked in the gaming industry a bit, interned at a handful of companies, did a few job shadows. (I live in the Seattle area, so there are TONS of gaming companies here) I know how it all works, and I can pretty reasonably guess the motives behind certain things a company like Riot does. They'll make some cheesy PR speech that talks about poor quality and all that, but that doesn't mean it's true at all.

Reasonable guess =/= certain proof. You're still speculating.

I can't prove it, but I can look at all the things Rioters say, all the things they do, and the way they run their business -- combined with my game dev experience, I can make a pretty good assumption.

Not all game companies are created equal, just like not all businesses are created equal. Some companies do things the shitty way, I won't argue with that. For example, some contractors and mechanics gouge their customers by convincing them to buy unnecessary equipment and services. But that is by no means grounds to assume that all companies in the same industry do it the same way.

Shahamut1 votes

If you cap his attack speed, you can't also say his autos can't crit. He won't have consistent dps for a late game carry.

Niyumi1 votes

No, he'll have consistent DPS, he just won't win entirely through his autos alone. He's meant to be an AD caster, and I'm doubling down on that. If he ults someone, every auto is going to apply 3 stacks of his passive, meaning his Q is goinna hit like a freight train repeatedly as long as he can stick to that person, and it ignores 45% armor, so he'll chunk even tanks.

Means Yas won't be as much a free win / statcheck, but still just as strong (if not stronger) in the right hands.

Shahamut1 votes

Wouldn't know for certain without playtest, but for now I disagree with your assessment. Also, Yasuo is hardly a free win/stat check champ. His win rate and average deaths per game very clearly contradict that claim.

He IS an aa champion as far as his primary damage, but success greatly depends on the proper use of his skills.

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