The problem with blue essence for a reward...

Better Jungler·Sep 1, 2017·88 votes·3,886 views

absolutely nothing since they're doing that blue essence market.

Good job Riot, this is a good reward that doesnt leave me feeling cheated like my old-style honors.

44 Comments

Sad ChihuahuaSep 1, 201717 votes

Someone not complaining on the boards, thank you.

Also, Riot, thank you as well. I really love where S8 is going, and I've been playing since early S2.

kitcat300Sep 1, 201714 votes

Tell that to the complaint threads that have more up votes at the moment -_-

FirethornSep 1, 20175 votes

Rip

atcfrenchyNov 22, 20171 votes

Did Riot delete those threads?

RiotRiot CactopusSep 2, 201732 votes

TBH we're kinda just chilling to see if people on the boards calm down. When you look at all the changes coming out as a whole, everybody is getting lots of good stuff. I think some people will stay mad, but it'll be hard to feel tilted when you're getting a fat pile of rewards, a cool new leveling system, new free runes that you can edit in champ select, and a crazy special BE store in preseason.

ShadowParkerSep 2, 20171 votes

Can you explain to me how changing the runes to 10 ip is good for Riots finances? I thought I saw a reply explaining that by keeping them high priced and refunding them caused Riot to not lose out on too much revenue until the transition. It kept people from buying champions and influenced more players to spend rp.

DrCyanideSep 2, 20171 votes

IP spent from here on out (I think a little bit before this even) isn't being refunded and those runes aren't being reimbursed. The 10 IP per Rune lets people mess around with any wonky build they wanted to try (Full Crit Damage, max Energy Regen, Revival, etc.) pretty risk free, while still removing IP from the system. Less IP in the system, more RP on champions.

It's better than the full stop on purchasing Runes that would happen.

Kirius DarkSep 2, 20176 votes

Crazy special BE store where I can buy 2 chromas via rune refund instead of having 30 levelling capsules for more champs and at least 5 more champs if I didnt have to get the runes in the first place. k

Better JunglerSep 2, 20175 votes

People will always be mad, you guys could honestly just ignore the negative posts, and look at the raw number of positive posts to see how successful a change looks, since negativity is a constant around here:P.

Question for ya while I get my chance at red text. Urf Warwick was shown to be 150k BE, is this expected to be the highest price reward? Or will there be higher?

UnboundHadesSep 2, 20177 votes

Small pile of rewards*

KrèépySep 2, 20178 votes

First of all by taking away something and putting something else in it's place the only people that are actually gaining are those who had little to nothing invested into this game. Veterans were around when you only had one NA server and stuck through all the bs lag that went along with it, chromas and ward skins don't cut it. These limited edition skins? We had the opportunity to buy them when they came out-hence why we're called veterans.. if we wanted them we would have them. Now you're taking them out of the vault so that they lose even more value and pretend like it's a reward? No. Nobody is getting a "fat pile of rewards" when we have to spend in game currency on it-in game currency that you "give" us after taking away what we earned for a 15% refund. This is BS and yall should know it. Scust.

Edit: Listen to your players Riot. Listen to your players. Listen. LISTEN. Don't make excuses and say it's enough it's enough when we are telling you it isn't. You literally just split the league community how can you sit here and tell us it's ok? You're bad and you should feel bad.

Better JunglerSep 2, 20174 votes

I just read through the novel you wrote on the boards, and ignored it because it's pointless to try and talk sense to you..

Hand out begging, while virtually screaming at the person giving you change.

You're not entitled to anything, I've been playing for just as long as you. I got good usage out of my runes, and rune pages, so the fact they are giving us anything is nice of them. You're not "Special" for being a veteran of an online game. NOTHING you have on your account is actually yours. Riot owns the skins you buy, the champs you buy, the runes, pages, chromas etc. I get you're trying to be a voice for a cause, but you're coming across as a spoiled child.

COBRA C0MM4NDERSep 3, 20171 votes

^ well said.

I'm happy we are getting anything.

SukishooSep 2, 20174 votes

Could still do some work on the Refunds for Runes. Those refunds feel pretty bad cause they are super low compared to what the runes originally cost. It should have been a bit higher % not this like 10% thing.

R0XTARSep 2, 20173 votes

Speaking of the store, the prices are always subject to change hopefully? I don't have all the champs, but I would DEF love to see more URFwick in the game :)

The MechESep 2, 20175 votes

What made you guys decide to nerf how much orange essence skin shards give as well though? Skin shards aren't becoming more frequent since level chests don't drop those, right?

VacusSep 2, 20177 votes

Yeah, most people probably will be distracted by the shiny new stuff.

That doesn't mean that's it's ok to say 'we've heard your feedback about the refund being too low, so we've cut it in half', though.

Siegfriedx1Sep 2, 20175 votes

You forgot to mention the less than 25% refund for all the runes you spent that is the bottom line of why your player base is mad.

You guys have used many artifices to hide and mislead people about it. The same that companies use to not let people know how much they are spending [instead of showing the price of something as money, you show as a random unit with very strange conversion rates].

Changing the name from IP to BE had the exact same goal and adding factors of multiplication on not so clear steps of the change was just plain evil. There is a lot of people believing they will get 100 * 6.5x per tier 3 and you guys know this is not what is going to happen. It's misleading on purpose.

Also not everyone can do the math and fall for the illusion that it's a good refund.

We are getting punished for playing this game for a long time. This whole ideology is completely backwards.

IAintDariusSep 2, 20175 votes

That's the good'ol listen to the community mentality that we all know and respect rioters for. /s

Is "feedback" a meme word you guys throw around in the office?

rtbf225618241Sep 2, 20177 votes

So in other words, you don't care nor have any counter-arguments against what people are complaining about.

That's all i can get out of this at least. The "We're right, you're wrong" attitude meme is really on-point i guess.

FlemmanSep 2, 20173 votes

there is still concern to have tho, and I really hope that you will provide more info in the next few day to settle the dust.

For exemple, what will be in the BE strore? is ww the only skin? will chrome be the same price that they were during ip sales? those question even if futile to you, could please the community since the frustration is probably coming from the fact that the only thing tease is on a BE cap that only veteran player can have (those who were prob there when that skin was free as heel^^). That leave the player who have all champ but not that big amounth of IP with the feeling of "well there will be nothing fun for me in the shop (need the skin for chroma i guess) and that fast champ grinding arrive too late for me anyway"

Another problem I think that need an answers before this goes lives is how you will handle the botting system after the change. Now that reward are only tied to level grinding and not playing a game every day, the number of bot account will probably skyrocket just because the value of them will increase more. Seeing how bot invasion was painfull near a month ago without a quick counter attack from your part, there is a huge concern that some mode with less riot attention will become horrible to play for their dedicated player base if thing stay the way they are now.

My last concern would be about the orange essence who will become even more painfull to get that what we have now, don't really understand why there is a need of decreasing the disenchant value because there is a 50/50 chance you got 2 skin fragment in your level chest (need a key for that?) The fact that getting champ shard willbe the best way to get BE (so you can buy other stuff) means to me that the system will be tuned to make you earn more of them than skin shard, even if you have all the champ already, so once again less orange shard. The only thnig that could be cool here is if "S chest" were now free of champ shard, so you will have a sure income of orange essence without impacting the be level grind system

Lord DusteonSep 2, 20176 votes

It's pretty easy to feel mad when Bob, who just got level 30 today after starting a month ago, is at the exact same point as Jim, who has been level 30 for 4 years. It's even worse when Jim had to spend an entire year of grinding for runes and rune pages to be on even footing and gets a tenth of his effort back, while Bob gets basically free runes.

I think something a lot of Rioters are overlooking is while people got to use the runes they bought for a long time, they were also forced into buying them at exorbitant prices to even play the game. It feels absolutely terrible that the current plan is "sure, you had to spend 2x or 3x or 80x the current cost of runes to play the game, and you had to buy multiple rune pages, but we're only refunding based on the final cost, and only a small partial refund anyway". It's not great that older players are being refunded 30% or less of the IP they were forced to spend to play the game, while new players get a full refund or at least a significantly better refund.

Bonus points, rune pages (which, again, are basically required to optimally play), are getting a 24% refund. Which is pretty stupid for something you required people own to play the game optimally.

Busty DemonessSep 2, 20174 votes

Since we have you here.... Gonna list my thoughts on the individual aspects of the big changes.

Runes - This is a good thing given that you're removing a barrier to ranked play. However, your compensation feels lacking for those who have gotten full rune sets so they're prepared for the greatest number of possible situations. Blue Essence I can tolerate since that will be the new IP but I suspect you aren't going to add that in prior to the multiplier (at which point I would take the amounts given because they'll be multiplied). My other concern is whether or not these will be merged with masteries, which it appears they will be doing.
Blue Essence - Merging the most useless currencies... I've seen worse changes. I'm still concerned for how Blue Essence will be earned because there's no reason to have it earned solely through capsules/chests upon leveling up.
Special Store - I could tolerate this if it was 100% ongoing with periodically rotating offers. I can't say I like the rewards that will be immediately offered (including Urfwick); but that doesn't mean I can't see the merits of such a shop especially if it was a regular special (because other than RP sales, you don't really do regular shopping specials so it would be nice to see more of those).

I still feel marginally cheated by a number of the changes Riot has made to the game outside of the game (Hextech Loot is an excellent example) and I would love to see parts changed so that more players are happy. I also want to mention that if you're aiming for the casualization route, it's how Blizzard lost most of their WoW player base and that's something to consider with the direction you take your game.

CelebrityOctopusSep 2, 20171 votes

I am sorry that you guys are getting verbally attacked. It's never right to speak to someone like that. The special BE store is a cool idea. The BE returns on the runes though are rather disappointing. I was in the habit of just buying runes when I had extra IP. If I had just bought the basic necessary runes then I would've had enough to get Urfwick. The new leveling system and new rune system are not rewards though. While they might be cool, you guys updating an outdated feature shouldn't be viewed as a reward.

UnvictusSep 2, 20171 votes

The problem I see is that what happens when the BE store goes away? What then do we veteran players who own all champs spend our blue essence on. The limited time store gives us a chance to spend the IP we've saved up, but after that we'll just start racking it up again...

LuciferSep 3, 20171 votes

I'm not mad, but I already have a lot of the content being released (or it doesn't apply to me, like buying fiora skins). I've spent a lot of money on the game, and I have a ton of extra LP and essence I have nothing to do with (and I'll have more soon, since I have every single rune). I wish some new chromas were released alongside this, because I just have nothing to use the essence on... That's my only real complaint.

EkyonKunSep 3, 20171 votes

Okay...this has been bothering me for months, and feel free to ignore this if it's not worth explaining, but aren't we technically just deleting runes while also reworking masteries?

I mean, runes have always been a +stat sorta deal, right? Well the new "runes" act a lot more like how current masteries do now. To me, runes have been something to add base stats to your champion (with mostly unused exceptions like +exp or -death timer quints) while masteries add unique effects like bonus single target damage to minions & monsters, or increasing the cap on your CDR.

The runes reforged system seems like...the latter, if I'm being honest. I'm aware the idea is merging the two together, but merging implies you take aspects of both and put them together. But, correct me if I'm wrong, there are no reworked "runes" that include such basic stats with no side affect. (-10% damage to champions, needing to overcap on CDR, needing to wait lengthy periods of time for any substantial increase, etc)

I'm just kind of wondering why it's called "Runes Reforged" and not "Remastered Masteries" or something like that.

OP Garen SupportSep 3, 20171 votes

I doubt my normal post would reach Riot because the loudest and toxic posts that offers nothing constructive or solution always take front page, but I still wanted to share my idea of Solution when viewed from the perspective of everyone involved.

I assume the reason rune refund prices are low because Veterans will buy most of the stuff they want for free which in results in less profit. I understand that giving anything for free is very generous and I appreciate it.

About those complaints, there is an easy way to make everyone(old players, new players, Riot) happy . The old playerbase complain because they feel cheated out of their IP, the solution would be to simply give back the spent IP 1:1 and increase the IP(BE) prices in the IP(BE) store.

There used to be complaints that there was nothing to buy with IP which led IP being wasted on random pricy runes. That special store might as well stay forever if prices are adjusted to how much Riot feels IP(BE) should cost.

Normally it takes 2 - 4 week to buy a 6300 IP champion. If we assume that people dont spend any IP in a year, then the amount that people can get is between 75600 - 151200 IP(BE) = ~100.000 IP(BE)

Example prices

icons : 2000 IP mystery skin shard: 10.000 IP mystery skin : 25.000 IP mystery champion shard: 1700 IP mystery champion: 5000 IP mystery emoticons : 10.000 IP mystery wards : 10.000 IP Chroma : 3000 IP each Gemstone : 50.000 IP URF WW SKIN : 150.000 IP (or any other high priced skin) Gemstone skins : 300.000 IP

That way Riot would not seem like they neglect the older costumers and there would be always a way to spend surplus IP(BE).

Regardless how the company decides to handle this issue. Im super excited for the next seasons. New runes, new leveling system, friendlier environment for new player base are all big steps in the right direction. Hope the game endures for a long time.

Windows OSSep 3, 20173 votes

The ONLY new thing here that's good is the new rune system, everything else is awful. As far as I know I'm not getting any special rewards (unless you count gimped rune return and if it's some stupid emote that's even worse), a leveling system that most of the time will give me something random I don't want (I already own all the champs and don't care for icons or these emotes), a BE store which not only has the one thing I do want out of it unobtainable by me because I wasn't playing since season 1 (which those people probably have the skin anyways), everything else is either chromas I can't use or more RNG bullshit.

I'd be fine with everything if I just got the full return on my runes/rune pages, cause I'd at least be able to get SOMETHING I wanted out of this shitshow.

Chibi TemplarSep 3, 20173 votes

"Hey guiz, we're not gonna change a thing, but you totally can't be mad forever when you look at this totally cool store with overpriced/lackluster stuff in it! Did I mention it's only there for a limited time? You guys gonna love that. Look at that pretty pile of blue essence that really won't amount to much of anything XD.AND LEVELING. Man you guys are gonna love our totally not blizzard leveling system."

You shouldnt have even replied to this thread.

La BelloSep 3, 20172 votes

Now THAT my friend is a very bold bet. Banking on a synthesis of fleeting distractions, short attention spans and father time to bail you out and solve your problems. Stifling the negativity ,criticisms and cries of the generation X with the positive responses and clamoring of the millennial beneficiaries.

Although I think it should be worth noting regardless of the outcome this is actually beneficial to the disgruntled community and a defining moment in the history of Riot Games. I think its going to go down like this :

Outcome A: you cave in, bend the knee and the work with the community for a more mutualistic deal. It might cost you a bit but ultimately you alleviate a majority of the unhappy campers and show the players that not only do you listen to feedback_ YOU ACT ON IT _

Outcome B: Make no changes and look the other way, show everyone where your priorities lie and give some players a glimpse of your true nature.. Show them that you are a **company ** first and foremost . like the scorpion to the frog you would be teaching us a lesson many soon wont forget.

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/f/fc/Thorgrim.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160418145644

DolynaSep 3, 20171 votes

Well, it does sound like the bots games are getting nerfed as far as rewards go. The IP is going away, and bots games don't have blue essence or chests or such. There will be the leveling rewards, but those probably won't come along very often. For those of us that like to play against bots most or all the time, that's a pretty big hit. Personally, though, I already have all the characters I want, so I'm not really concerned about that.

SincarnationNov 23, 20171 votes

My only problems with the blue essence store are that emotes arent in it (the good ones, not the poro look at all my blue essence ones) and there is still basically nothing for veteran players with banks of IP

Absolutely fucking waste it on gemstones (a shitty system we shouldnt be supporting, fuck loot exclusivity) Urfwick - wow look at that ... fancy ... recall? It doesnt even particles why do people care about this thing? Two emotes for look at how much BE I had Mystery Icons - Yay randomness, unfortunately I've been playing long enough to have the icon I want for whatever reason (psst decouple summoner icons and profile backgrounds) Mystery Chibi Icons - Yay randomness, admittedly some of these were cute see above and why I use an elementalist lux icon Chromas - Same as usual only complaint is personal in that the ones I want were too recent to be in the store -_- Mystery Champions - Banks of BE, I have every champ could ever want

Can't gift with it and can't even mystery skin, I would've been happy being able to gift champions. I would've done the same thing I did with Xayah and Rakkan and become Santa temporarily just giving champs to people on friends list because eh fuck it. Maybe its just me, I really didn't want something that was just look at my massive pe err I mean BE. Like everyone can get one skin they want with BE, I feel like the rewards were in the wrong direction.

SwaidSep 1, 201710 votes

Except, you know, for limited runes that came out seven years ago that are worth the same blue essence as every other rune...

https://i.imgur.com/cWEpDSz.jpg

Better JunglerSep 2, 20176 votes

Its really petty to go that low with it haha. They honestly shouldnt HAVE to give us anything, because even if we did buy the runes 5 years ago, we still benefitted from having them and using them. So it's riot being somewhat generous, and you're gunna be mad over the tiniest portion of its reward?(discontinued runes from 7 years ago)

HutchSep 2, 201710 votes

Ill keep saying this, as I have said it before. Runes cannot "pay for themselves over time." They were permanent like champions. If Riot suddenly decided to make half of all champs free while reimbursing 10% of their IP costs, and it just so happened to be champs that you own, you would be mad. Now, everyone has what you already had, and you can buy like 4 champs with your refund...but its ok, those champs "already paid for themselves" because you got to play with them for a few years.

This is Riot absolutely betraying their oldest, most loyal, RP-purchasing players. When your veterans feel that you broke their trust, that spreads throughout the player base, because veterans shape the opinions of new players.

Better JunglerSep 2, 20176 votes

No this is a bunch of spoiled children wanting rewards for something they feel entitled to. I don't think you understand that literally not ONE aspect of this game is yours, or ever has been regardless of the amount of money you spend. The champs arent yours, the runes arent yours, the account name isnt yours. If riot were to say "League of legends will shut down permanently tomorrow." You would lose everything, and wouldnt get reimbursed for any of it.

iamthegoatofwarSep 2, 20173 votes

Yha but if riot is as money hungry as I expect they understand that the ones with the wallets who feel like they're getting F'ed might rebel. granted they've made enough money off of league that anyone who was important to the company for several years can be completely fine. The biggest issue is that if they made another game they couldn't go under the company name "riot" as they'd likely be met with harness and distrust off the bat.

Automated RivenSep 2, 20171 votes

What about when riot reworked kat, karma, poppy, and all these other champions I loved playing. Nobody was lining up asking for refunds when that happened. It's the same principle.

BolwinkelSep 2, 20171 votes

Yeah, I benefited from something that I had to buy in order to be able to win a game.

Better JunglerSep 2, 20173 votes

Yes.... You did. lol

RobronoSep 2, 20179 votes

Not gonna lie, the Blue Essence Market is a stroke of genius, now all they need to do is tweak some of the numbers for rune reimbursement and they'll have a perfect plan in place.

ADC BardNov 23, 20171 votes

The whiners are a minority anyway, just ignore them lul

Bard

Clockwork MadokaNov 23, 20171 votes

I've been mostly against the system so far, but I'll give these latest changes a try and get a few levels to see if it had any improvement. I would like to see, when possible, a "highest and lowest" possible results (not BE gain, but specifically rewards). If possible, I would love an answer for some of the following...

Is the new batch of BE random, or is it always the same amount gained?

Do you always get the same number of shards, or is the number random between 1-5 like before?

Have the drop rates for higher champion shards been changed?

Is there any system stopping someone from getting multiple higher-cost champ shards in a single chest?