Darius's problem, from a challenger Mordekaiser main

Ahristocats··45 votes·4,826 views

https://i.gyazo.com/f76042c3bba819339de8e015136b87c9.png

He's TOO TELEGRAPHED

look, I know that Darius is fine below but he's literally a "pick to lose" champion in high elo and he's like one of the only one like this i can remember a lot of champions picked few games but Darius is legit never picked

so why is Darius garbage in high elo while being good in low elo? unlike Mordekaiser?

Because obviously the first reason is that Mordekaiser has more range than him, Mordekaiser has 1100 range on W 600 range on ult 525 range on E But the second reason is that Mordekaiser is way less telegraphed than Darius if tristana happens to be in your range for 1 sec as morde, you can still apply one Q and recast W to remove 70% of her hp, you won't kill her but at least you did something with Darius, unless you have noxian might you won't do anything

Darius is legit the only melee i can think about that does absolutly no burst damage before 5 stacks+ult this is what makes him unviable in high elo, because as an immobile melee targets won't stay in your range for 3 or 4 seconds unless something happened

Easy way to fixe him

-reduce his delays -nerf his damage

what will happen: -he will be able to do something in high elo -unchanged in low elo, cuz darius would have anyway been able to do his things due to people cc'ing him/kiting him less efficiently

example of what can happen: -Noxian might bonus AD changed from a flat amount at 5 stacks, to a flat amount on each stack (think of old fervor) -passive damage nerf -Q is now instant at rank 5, but damage and healing are nerfed -W damage increased -R damage buffed when target has 1-2-3 stacks, unchanged with 4 or 5 stacks

73 Comments

greekvandaL20 votes

No we can't have Darius beeing Viable. Low elo's are gonna cry.

Give us more Lux skin and Zoe buffs riot that's what the community wants.

Ahristocats8 votes

As I said, if you reduce Darius's damage but make him ACTUALLY able to dish out his damage in high elo it will be a neat buff while nothing would change in low elo, might actually be a nerf for Darius in that elo since before he could already be able to dish out his maximum amount of damage

Zero Skill Tank3 votes

while nothing would change in low elo, might actually be a nerf for Darius in that elo since before he could already be able to dish out his maximum amount of damage

But it will make low elo Darius gameplay much worse, for both sides. Those delays are the key point of his design, after all his whole rework was pretty all about them.

I can see your point, but relative power level is not the only thing Riot cares for. In fact, they seem to care about interesting gameplay way more, maybe even too much.

Harsh as it sounds, Riot is very unlikely to make Darius gameplay less engaging for he low ELO masses, when the only gain is making a few high elo Dario fans happier.

Ahristocats4 votes

thing is Mordekaiser is also delayed (W total damage needs 4 sec; R total damage needs 10 sec, 3rd Q is delayed)

but he can do things before all of this delay

so when i play Morde, the delays like you say makes the gameplay engaging, but it also does not make the gameplay bullshit becuase if i play darius i'm just going to get bullshited so hard by enemies due to massive delays

delays are good, but not too much

Darius ult is already delayed why is his Q so so so telegraphed (0.75 sec in mid/late game really?) and passive takes ages to stack

remember they reduced lucian's cast times with level to buff him

NineTailedMystic5 votes

So your problem is that Darius goes 0-100 but has too much "0" time? Compared to Morde who is 25, 50, 75, 100?

Ahristocats2 votes

exactly!

DragonShea10 votes

[{quoted}](name=toxicity creep,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxIKsQhe,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-30T23:00:44.262+0000)

No we can't have Darius beeing Viable. Low elo's are gonna cry.

Give us more Lux skin and Zoe buffs riot that's what the community wants.

Let those fuckers cry, i am getting sick of them bitching about some champs being tough to beat in low elo. I had to deal with that shit too as have many other players. if they want an easy game, then fine, let them ruin X class and balancing because of it. But League is also about learning from your mistakes so that you don't end up feeding and improve your win rate. We all get burned in Elo hell but some can handle the heat and rise up in MMR.

greekvandaL2 votes

{quoted}

Let those fuckers cry, i am getting sick of them bitching about some champs being tough to beat in low elo. I had to deal with that shit too as have many other players. if they want an easy game, then fine, let them ruin X class and balancing because of it. But League is also about learning from your mistakes so that you don't end up feeding and improve your win rate. We all get burned in Elo hell but some can handle the heat and rise up in MMR.

I'd love for that. i actually played Darius for the most part season 7 even as a Rengar/Kha 2 trick cause he was fun till they made bot lane disgusting.

doubleguac5 votes

Let those fuckers cry, i am getting sick of them bitching about some champs being tough to beat in low elo.

The vast majority of the playerbase is gold and below. It's not at all crazy to expect Riot to try to balance the game for most of their players.

I understand that pro level balance should be the priority. And obviously balance is most sensitive at that level.

But, if balancing a champion for the bottom 90% of players means the top 3% of players won't be able to use them in ranked... I just don't know that that's a bad trade-off.

BTW, not saying I want Darius to be guttered or something. I have no problem with Darius. I'm just talking in the abstract.

Leetri1 votes

99,6% of the playerbase is either unranked, bronze, silver or gold. "High elo" isn't even the 1%, it's the 0,4%. Kinda insignificant if you put it that way.

doubleguac1 votes

W/e, you get the point. People are way too quick to throw most of the playerbase under the bus.

FalconPawwwwnch17 votes

Tfw nasus can beat darius in an all in at level 6

Oakleaf Ranger8 votes

I'm pretty agreeable with all this except for making his Q instant. That and changing his heal from missing health. His only "defense" steroid is a missing health heal which was functional/useful before more grievous wound were introduced into the game. His missing health heal might as well be removed at this point past laning phase because he isn't even healing paper cuts at this point.

Ahristocats3 votes

i disagree with you not agreeing on instant Q

Darius needs to have some burst damage to not be a joke It was changed to not make the lane oppressive anymore, and today laning phase ends at lvl 7 or 8 nearly

making Darius Q instant at rank 5 while nerfing the damage and healing is in my opinion a good way to make him viable at all elos

DragonShea3 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxIKsQhe,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-01-31T08:49:10.726+0000)

i disagree with you not agreeing on instant Q

Darius needs to have some burst damage to not be a joke It was changed to not make the lane oppressive anymore, and today laning phase ends at lvl 7 or 8 nearly

making Darius Q instant at rank 5 while nerfing the damage is in my opinion a good way to make him viable at all elos

True, Darius is damn strong in the early game but his biggest weakness is that his is abilities have a wind-up AKA being telegraphed. I think that he needs some kind of abilities that allows him to move faster towards ranged champs and reduce the effects of their CC based on their range. Anything above 400 range will increase his MS and tenacity towards him. that way he can better reach a ranged target while still being a threat to melees.

Foxstep1 votes

It’s not darius being weak, it’s his items being garbage (just look at cleaver) and enemy tops being too strong.

Still no idea why gp is allowed to have a strong laning phase with such a scaling lol

Oakleaf Ranger1 votes

His laning is still pretty strong/decent, against most melee champions that is. The problem is that he has to play aggressive to take advantage of that but isn’t strong enough to 1v2 anymore and lacks escape tools.

His healing needs to be changed/buffed not nerfed. His healing isn’t strong enough anymore to allow him to sustain in fights to actually impact them in his current state.

If his Q became instant he would become a near unstoppable monster who would just rush righteous glory after BC when combined with the all the CDR he tends to build. His ultimate is his burst, unfortunately the power is just way too conditional in his current state.

Seenan8 votes

Imo, his hilt needs to add a bleed stack again...and his movement speed on bleed needs to come back, if even just 1% per stack so he isn't easily as kited. I'm sure anyone would be bleeding if someone knocked you in the face with a decent speed spinning axe hilt.

Ahristocats2 votes

totally forgot about the bonus movement speed on bleed

but yes, it's changes like this that darius needs

along with damage nerf, because he would be too oppressive in low elo

Diamond2Kappa4 votes

He's TOO TELEGRAPHED

Fizz item 3070 hehe

greekvandaL11 votes

{quoted}

Fizz item 3070 hehe

are you penns? i've been eager to ask

Diamond2Kappa4 votes

the one and only :]

greekvandaL4 votes

{quoted}

the one and only :]

how many accs you got banned on the boards lmfao.

Chromatic Eagle4 votes

He’s the Tyler1 of the boards.

Jinx Hunter6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxIKsQhe,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-30T23:51:47.227+0000)

He’s the Tyler1 of the boards.

Come on, even Tyler1 doesn't deserve that comparison....

Grubbling Butter4 votes

I'd be so happy to see his insta Q come back

Elkington4 votes

Nearly all of the immobile melees are either telegraphed or their damage has large windows to be played around.

Darius problem, along with most other bruisers, is that his kit is too selfish. This doesn't work out too well on SR, where adc damage outcales everything, making most melee champ's worth based on how much they can assist their bot lane.

If he had some real utility to fall back on he could actually be a consistent/reliable pick.

Ahristocats3 votes

as i said a lot of melees are delayed but they can still do things before their delays

except darius

Elkington1 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxIKsQhe,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-01-31T08:40:35.899+0000)

as i said a lot of melees are delayed but they can still do things before their delays

except darius

Even on release, when his Q came out instantly (and his ult on kill had no cooldown) Darius was a binary pick at best, only strong because he was overtuned. Him and Garen suffer from the same problem, in that all they offer to a team is theoretical damage output. Once they're put into a situation where they can't do that damage they're useless. Being both immobile and melee are pretty much the biggest weaknesses a champ can have in this game, followed by having no utility.

In contrast, they're both decent picks that often carry on TT, but mainly because ranged carries are arguably the weakest picks on the map. Once you take ranged carries out of the equation, they can actually function as champions.

SilentBomber2 votes

{quoted}

Nearly all of the immobile melees are either telegraphed or their damage has large windows to be played around.

Darius problem, along with most other bruisers, is that his kit is too selfish. This doesn't work out too well on SR, where adc damage outcales everything, making most melee champ's worth based on how much they can assist their bot lane.

If he had some real utility to fall back on he could actually be a consistent/reliable pick.

Darius is a Juggernaut and not a Bruiser.By the term Bruiser we actually mean "Fighter" like Jax.Juggernauts like Darius have more sustain on lane due to his abilities and the common "Resolve Tree".

I have 600k mastery points with Jax top and i can say as much,since Darius is a common opponent of me.Darius players are indeed selfish in low elo.Because of his Q's heal and movement speed of his stacks plus of the the phage item,they push their lane hard and do mistakes easily.

I'll agree that,if Riot applies this change as mentioned,players will become less selfish and actually take advantage of Darius abilities.Because most of them don't.

No wonder his alternative name is "Feedarius" :P

Sire Hippington4 votes

One of the worst things that ever happened for darius were the E changes in the juggernaut update. Befor, he could catch mobile heroes of guard and had somewhat reliable utillity. Now good opponents know then to expect the E and have the needed reactions to flash/dash out of the animation so you have little chances to catch them. But i guess we won't see that...

What i really would love to see is mostly a nerf to his passive with compensation buffs:

  • remove or atleast heavily nerf the passive AD-boost
  • bring back an ms-boost on it. like 1% for each stack on an opposing champ,so upt to 5% vs 1 and upt to 25% vs 5 opponents, or give tenacity+slow resist instead, which imo is more fitting for juggernauts, but sadly not that usefull against the overkill on CC/peel and high amount of displaces we have these days.
  • Increase the bleed damage so at max stacks you reach a similar value as with the current AD bonus, but get more value from lower stacks. Also buff the ratio a bit so getting AD feels better, or change it into a total AD ratio so steraks feels better
  • Increase the Ult damage to match the current value at max stacks with the ad bonus and buff the ratio or change it to total ad to work with steraks and scale better into late. Currently, i find his ult to be the weakest part of his kit, it does so little for a singletarget melee ranged ult unless you have noxian might, but if you get noxian might your overall damage is so high that most of the time the ult just is overkill. It's main use would be unlocking noxian might, but it does so little damage at low stacks and has some dealy so getting an execute when your rntier team focuses on that target is rather unreliable. Maybe it would be enough if you get noxian might even if the target dies duering the animation or up to ~0.5 sec after...
  • Increase the Q ratio a bit, or increase the damage it does for each bleedstack on the target a bit
  • Change the W damage fom 140% ad to 135-155%, so it feels a bit better to max, right now darius doesn't feel like he's gettign much benefit from ranks(asides from base stats) once A and E are maxed.
  • Maybe buff his base AS a bit, i really, really miss his old high base AS, made as actually an itteresting stat on him and did alot for his earlygame CSing and trades.
  • maybe slightly buff the E hitbox or casttime to make it a bit more reliable.

The basic idea is to give him more damage without noxian might, and less damage than now with noxian might but therefor better tools to actually move through a fight and go for those executes. The higher upfront damage and buffs to mobillity and E should help a bit at dealing with ranged/slippery opponents while the lower potential damage should make him less punishing vs opponents that can't get away from the noxian might.

Ryusaether4 votes

How about making his W give him movement speed until he hits, so you either use it as an AA reset OR a chasing tool? I thought about tenacity/slow resist as well, but maybe that would be too much.

Darius

YuGiHo3 votes

-reduce his delays

As an assassin main this makes me sad.

Arakadia3 votes

Do you claim to main whatever is most convient at the time? Because you've claimed to main Mordekaiser, and Thresh, and Blitzcrank, and so on.

I'll gladly bring up links, but I'm pretty sure you can't main 3 or more champions.

Leonerdo5 votes

You can main them at different times. Not many people actually main one champion forever.

Arakadia2 votes

Okay but what about 3 mains in one month?

General Esdeath 2 votes

2 in the same role so possible

Arakadia1 votes

It's no longer maiming then though. It would be just playing them a lot.

He's claimed to be a Darius main in the past as well.

General Esdeath 1 votes

He could jump. I used to main Darius myself but I moved to GP.

General Esdeath 3 votes

I feel like he's just an anti-tank champ now. But with tanks being so busted and scaling well, he's not that great.

Seenan3 votes

Imo, his hilt needs to add a bleed stack again...and his movement speed on bleed needs to come back, if even just 1% per stack so he isn't easily as kited. I'm sure anyone would be bleeding if someone knocked you in the face with a decent speed spinning axe hilt.

His ult animation needs to happen a lot faster too. Too many times have I been denied just because it takes forever to do the damage.

Dokueki Kenshin3 votes

I’m not denying that Darius could use some love. Fleet Footwork on a juggernaut is proof enough that there are problems with his kit (even if it does create for more rune diversity). With that being said though, isn’t his kit being more telegraphed supposed to be part of his counterplay? I’m all for buffing him, but not at the cost of removing an essential balancing point.

DragonShea2 votes

Darius is clunky and made to be a heavy anti-melee champion, that is his problem. Because he doesn't have the means to reach ranged targets well. Juggs like Yorick Urgot Illaoi Nasus and even Garen have better gap closing or beyond melee abilities. Even fucking Illaoi can get a ranged champ that messes up with her E can win fights that way and she is similar to how Darius functions as a jugg. if anything Darius needs a means to close the distance of ranged champs as they can kite him hard.

no to toxic1 votes

Urgot range champ with mobility and soft CC has an easiert time chatching up to people then slow angry axe man( Darius )of bad base dmg and having his counters buffed making him overall worse. Why didn`t anyone mention this before.

Jamenawerl2 votes

They could just revert the Q rework, I would love that. The previous one was instant, more satisfying, and more theme fitting.

I mean a dude healing with his axe wtf. Good ol' circle of death Darius was funnier to play as and against imho. Maybe the only real problem was his old passive.

StpTlkinAnBndOvr1 votes

With all due respect isnt mord just flat out dog shit? Ive never heard of anyone getting challenger on him...much less maining/playing him.

StpTlkinAnBndOvr2 votes

[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zxIKsQhe,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2018-01-31T09:03:13.762+0000)

http://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=I%20am%20Rubick%20Sama

No i believe you. Im just wondering how Gnar rumble you name it doesnt smash your champ top. Unless yout tower farming how do you mord at any elo your so gankable n kite-able. Im trash so i know my opinion but im impressed you made morde work top...theres no dragon top.

Ahristocats2 votes

i play him bot lane not top

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