Enchanter's biggest problem is that their kits are just uninteractive.

Dead flag blues··14 votes·1,058 views

Sona Even someone without hands could play her, her kit only has one "skillshot"

Lulu Point and click "polymorph" more like "stun", point and click shield, 80% slow on a skillshot undodgeable, R is basically " I click on you and fuck everything"

Janna Point and click shield, point and click slow / ms buff, Knock up used to run away (undodgeable most of the time), R is undodgeable either, basically the "oh shit I fucked up button"

Karma Point and click shield, point and click root, no ult, poke is really easy to shoot, although I like her

Ivern Skillshot root at least this one is fair, point and click shield, otherwise his kit is fine

27 Comments

Leylania13 votes

As someone who loves to play enchanters (not only in LoL) I agree. I would love to see a small rework for the enchanters like we had for assassins etc. change their kits a bit and give them a way to show some skill beside pressing one button every few seconds on the adc. Nami is a good example for how a good enchanter support should look like.

Dead flag blues2 votes

{quoted}

As someone who loves to play enchanters (not only in LoL) I agree. I would love to see a small rework for the enchanters like we had for assassins etc. change their kits a bit and give them a way to show some skill beside pressing one button every few seconds on the adc. Nami is a good example for how a good enchanter support should look like.

Yes I didn't mention Nami because I really love her kit, and it requires some skill to play, and some choices to make

HungryAngry2SPP1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zsK5tU1I,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-02-06T18:54:20.461+0000)

Yes I didn't mention Nami because I really love her kit, and it requires some skill to play, and some choices to make

Played her once, or maybe 2. This 1st idea i get was "wow, this champ is so skilless but's so effective!" ...

greekvandaL8 votes

{quoted}

As someone who loves to play enchanters (not only in LoL) I agree. I would love to see a small rework for the enchanters like we had for assassins etc. change their kits a bit and give them a way to show some skill beside pressing one button every few seconds on the adc. Nami is a good example for how a good enchanter support should look like.

Nami is actually pretty perfect thats why she has never been nagged about.

Lios Ashenblade1 votes

I think Sonas q should work like Namis heal, not that her heal isnt annoying as fuck because it hits hard and heals hard, but sonas Q prioritizes champions, and literally just has to be tapped in range, dont even need to click them lol

Sõna1 votes

My personal idea is that, they could rework shield mechanism. Like giving it to blocks certain % of damage instead of fullyblocking. If you cast a 100 HP shield on your ADC, if it blocks 60-70% damage incoming, then your ADC will receive 40-30 damage directly and convert some of the damage into the shield. It will be much healthier.

I have to say, Sona is not healthy in late game with that AOE moving buff provider. If only Sona would have some game update but it will be impossible.

OverpoweredSoap4 votes

Karma ult is up way too often after her latest buff imo.

Like I don't know if she's overpowered (mostly because she depends on her ult to be useful at all as a support), but jesus christ I can use it at least 3 times in one medium long teamfight.

She already builds max CDR (like most supports), takes ultimate hat since she really isn't mana intensive at all, so she doesn't need mana flow band and her passive takes off 4 seconds of her mantra if she just q's anyone late game. She also gets 2 seconds off of her ult when she autos and since she also builds ardent censor a good amount of the time, her ult is up constantly.

You could say her passive gives her an incentive to be more interactive, and it kind of does, but since her kit is basically about consistent kiting, it can make her feel uninteractive.

As for Lulu , yeah she's always been like that but I wouldn't say her Q is undodgeable. When she's strong she's usually too strong, and frustrating to play against.

Sona will never change from being easy to play, as Riot said they like her as an entry level champion but I honestly think she kinda falls flat on her current power fantasy.

Janna is the queen of peel so its expected she's uninteractive, she wants everyone to stay the fuck back and keeps it that way.

Her rework was a mess and in most cases just made her stronger. I don't think Riot feels like touching her again unless its simply a VU or maybe some cooldown tweaks.

[{quoted}](name=Ionian Vulpix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zsK5tU1I,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-06T20:09:28.163+0000)

Forgot Nami, Bard, and Rakan

Nami does have parts of her kit that are kind of un-interactive (her W bouncing, and her E) but the other half of her kit is pretty telegraphed and warns you she's about to do something.

Bard is interesting.. I wouldn't really count him as an enchanter, but I wouldn't count him as something else. He's pretty unique as far as what he does. The closest he is, is like a mix between tank and enchanter. Sometimes damage. Only part about him that is kind of un-interactive is his passive damage, but he has to constantly roam to get it up in the first place. This means if he's leaving his adc by themselves a lot, its easy to dive them. Of course, if the game goes long enough he gets the damage anyways but that's a thing that applies to a lot of champions.

Rakan Can be un-interactive if he's paired with Xayah, due to how their kits work together. However, when paired with any other champion, that safety of his E is pretty harshly reduced, making him have to commit in more situations than he usually would. His Q isn't that great (though I wouldn't say its terrible, its just eh). And the change Riot made to his ult awhile back made it so Rakan actually had to touch people with it. And although he builds tanky (like support tanky) he's just as squishy as other enchanters while having a lot more limited range. He's riskier to play than most enchanters because if you fall behind he still has to go in somewhat melee range to be useful, and other enchanters don't really have to.

JustMonika133 votes

If only all enchanters took as much skill as Nami and Rakan did.

no to toxic3 votes

If Rakan takes skill after level 6 then Alistar is a skunk.

JustMonika132 votes

[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zsK5tU1I,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-02-06T20:28:10.441+0000)

If Rakan takes skill after level 6 then Alistar is a skunk.

... And he isn’t?

no to toxic2 votes

Admit it Rakan has little to not counterplay in terms of being engaged on when he reaches level 6. The only thing you can do is stay a W +flash away from him

OverpoweredSoap1 votes

[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zsK5tU1I,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-06T20:32:36.698+0000)

Admit it Rakan has little to not counterplay in terms of being engaged on when he reaches level 6. The only thing you can do is stay a W +flash away from him

Can't Alistar also flash knock up+headbutt you into a team though?

I will say it would take more skill, but there's not much counterplay to that either except staying out of Alistar's flash range as well?

no to toxic2 votes

It has been proven in practice that you can flash it I saw it a few times in LCS. But with Rakan you can`t do nothing since his ult "stuns" you while he Ws so your myth has been busted or how americans say it.

OverpoweredSoap1 votes

[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zsK5tU1I,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-06T21:06:37.280+0000)

It has been proven in practice that you can flash it I saw it a few times in LCS. But with Rakan you can`t do nothing since his ult "stuns" you while he Ws so your myth has been busted or how americans say it.

Fair enough.

I still would say that Rakan's less safer than Alistar just due to how Alistar's how ult works and how much more cc Alistar has, but being able to flash W is rather uninteractive.

no to toxic1 votes

{quoted}

but being able to flash W is rather uninteractive.

who do you mean now Alistar or Rakan? Also with the safety part. Unless Rakan ran with his ult into your nexus tower he can easily E back to his team.

OverpoweredSoap2 votes

[{quoted}](name=no to toxic,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zsK5tU1I,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-06T21:40:05.817+0000)

but being able to flash W is rather uninteractive.

who do you mean now Alistar or Rakan? Also with the safety part. Unless Rakan ran with his ult into your nexus tower he can easily E back to his team.

Rakan.

Rakan's E range is not as big as people make it to be.

The only person who gives him extreme safety with it is Xayah.

no to toxic1 votes

It`s not very big but unless your team is made out of 4 Xeraths who were trained to always be 1000 units away from their enemys you will always have someone near you unless you like I said overextend more then a Vayne running though 2 turrets to catch you.

HeimerLmao2 votes

(Has flashbacks of ult-w fails that lead to losing so many fights) ... Ekhm... Well, guess I just suck.

Infernape2 votes

It's why I like Rakan as an enchanter champ. His heal is a skillshot and using his E usually leaves you vulnerable to being jumped/engaged on.

Ionian Vulpix2 votes

Forgot Nami, Bard, and Rakan

Get Ogre Here3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ionian Vulpix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zsK5tU1I,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-02-06T20:09:28.163+0000)

Forgot Nami, Bard, and Rakan

That's because those are examples of well-designed enchanters with mechanics 'n shit

xelaker2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dead flag blues,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zsK5tU1I,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-02-06T18:48:31.407+0000)

Sona Even someone without hands could play her, her kit only has one "skillshot"

Lulu Point and click "polymorph" more like "stun", point and click shield, 80% slow on a skillshot undodgeable, R is basically " I click on you and fuck everything"

Janna Point and click shield, point and click slow / ms buff, Knock up used to run away (undodgeable most of the time), R is undodgeable either, basically the "oh shit I fucked up button"

Karma Point and click shield, point and click root, no ult, poke is really easy to shoot, although I like her

Ivern Skillshot root at least this one is fair, point and click shield, otherwise his kit is fine

Sona she requires you to sit back and observe the situation. yes, her difficulty is low, but managing a good flow of buffs can make or break a game. We can't all have a ryze like combo of spells that make it look like I'm typing a secret password as fast as I can with only 3 keys.

Lulu polymorph requires proper timing and target choice, her shield can be used for a little damage and vision on an enemy, not to mention her shield completely changes how you can use your Q. Her R can be used to give health to a squishy, or as a pseudo heal, or can be used on the engage to provide a small knock-up and slowing effect around them.

Janna the shield is what it is man, everything doesn't need to be a 4 step 8 passive skillshot. you become slower after you use the slow and the cd on the spell is more than the slow. it's short term reward for a potential long term loss. it also allows you to ignore collision detection while off cd. the tornado isn't dodge-able at pointblank range...neither is a yas tornado, ornn ult, or anything else. and like all knockback spells (alistar headbutt, tris ult, thresh flay) can be used for all sorts of stuff. knock enemies away, block a dash or jump from getting close or from continuing away, flash infront on an enemy and ult them towards your team, hop into the thick of it to seperate an enemy team before they can get organized.

Karma her spells are basic so they can interact with her ult. Q provides a bit of area control, nobody ults the tether unless they went tanky top lol, e shields and speeds the team at the cost of her only real damage, and her ult literally does nothing but alter her other skills

Ivern what do you want shields to be? skillshots? lux is unique in this way, let shields be they're fine.

nothing in league is all that interactive when you describe it like this.

Cassiopeia land your poison and mash those fangs, if they look at you ult.

Talon stand on the enemy and hit them, if they are far away hit R then Q, if they are scary jump over walls until you can't see them anymore

Ahri land a charm them spam everything else, rinse and repeat

Diana land a q, press r. roll about on the keyboard.

Akali roll about on your keyboard making sure to spam your mastery 7

Yasuo roll about on your keyboard as if you are having a seizure. die. spam mastery 7 and appropriate yas emotes.

Jhin throw down a trap, grenade the wave once low, land root and ult.

Rakan R W E back to team.

Nami bubble people, buff adc attacks, heal booboos, ult teamfight.

do you get where this is going? kit complexity =/= interactive. it's how you use it man. little stuff impacts the game. hell aery has gotten me more kills than ignite at this point im pretty sure. and it's seen as the shieldy little brother of comet

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

{quoted}

Lulu polymorph requires proper timing and target choice, her shield can be used for a little damage and vision on an enemy, not to mention her shield completely changes how you can use your Q. Her R can be used to give health to a squishy, or as a pseudo heal, or can be used on the engage to provide a small knock-up and slowing effect around them.

Polymorph is on the same lvl as Tahm's W in a sense, but it doesnt have the same lvl of req set as Tahm's does for the enemy and it should.

DEDManWonderLand1 votes

The difference between lulu and everyone on here is that one Q (which is a skillshot) doesnt nearly oneshot your ADC like hmmm idk sona? Or a tonadoe from jana? Or gee what about karma who ults and even if she missed it still does AOE damage. Thats assuming you built some sort of ap and not just straight healing focused items

newyorkninja2 votes

Since when does Janna tornado oneshot an adc? I haven't seen that since like...season 2? Karma I kinda get but also you said so yourself; if she goes ap and not straight healing (redemption, ardent, or locket) she forgoes sustain and survivability. Ult Q means no Ult E shield either. Sure Lulu doesn't oneshot people with q, but its still an 80% slow plus having polymorph adds even more slow plus disable. That's 4 seconds of someone moving at roughly (due to decaying slow) 20% - ~85% ms. With 2.25 secs of not being able to cast or attack.

Granted Lulu trades off giving attack speed with W if you poly, but it's not nearly as punishing as karma using ult q vs ult e. All of her abilities are mediocre WITHOUT the ult. Hell Lulu Q has the exact same damage as Karma Q but can go through multiple targets, has a much higher slow, and can be redirected from on top of your carry. Only downside is 10% less ap scaling.

Karma's ult has a 36 sec cooldown max rank if she isn't hitting anything, that's a clear window to do SOMETHING as opposed to lulu where if you miss glitterlance you still actually have an ult, a shield that is (again) stronger that karma's, and an emergency 2.25 sec disable/4 sec speed boost.

Edit: Double posted

FlameHalbrdOkido1 votes

4 the most part shields will continue to be point n click thats not the biggest issue, they allow for clutch saves, now a channeled point and click shield like a Varus Q for max strength would be interesting.

even if they made shield ground-targeted that would put TOO much pressure on the support

Lulu is a mess i made post about her W here

Janna's W should be ground targeted, or a skill shot

More from Gameplay

More by Dead flag blues