What is the point of Twitch's visible area when his AA range is larger than it ?

Dead flag blues·Feb 4, 2018·18 votes·1,276 views

Title, apart from being able to escape, I honestly don't see the point of this "counterplay"

19 Comments

RaiyzaFeb 5, 20186 votes

Still no nerfs in sight. Banning him every single game since season 6.

ArakadiaFeb 5, 20186 votes

Its so he can't walk right up against you and turn around to escape like he used to. Before he could walk right up and give you a hive five and you wouldn't know it.

SpiritOfOdysseusFeb 5, 20185 votes

Because riot's balance team loves exploiting twitch so they can get into gold

Dasdi96Feb 5, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Because riot's balance team loves exploiting twitch so they can get into gold

More like riot loves jacking off to twitch pentakills while being shielded by enchanters.

greekvandaLFeb 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Because riot's balance team loves exploiting twitch so they can get into gold

They cant even get to gold playing adcs. meanwhile i practiced adc for 1 week after 3 years and got d4 with it lmfao. And i dont think it matters that i was diamond before because * adc high skillcap role * as the community suggests.

SuperLuigiLXIVFeb 4, 20182 votes

Twitch gains a move speed boost when he's stealthed but in range where he would be visible without it.

The detection zone is so he can't just walk away from a melee champion who's on top of him.

Dead flag bluesFeb 4, 201814 votes

{quoted}

Twitch gains a move speed boost when he's stealthed but in range where he would be visible without it.

The detection zone is so he can't just walk away from a melee champion who's on top of him.

Others assassins like Rengar Evelynn have this effect so that you can see when they're close, so you have a few seconds to react. I really hate being exploded from 800+ range by a guy who isn't even supposed to be an assassin without being able to react before dying

SuperLuigiLXIVFeb 4, 20189 votes

I didn't say it wasn't ridiculous. Every ADC meta is stupid as hell, because ADCs are never and have never been weak, even when the meta doesn't particularly favor them.

I was just telling you why he has a detection radius.

ZT XperimentorFeb 4, 20186 votes

I can't find the quote now, but I'd seen someone sum that thought up nicely, along the lines of 'It's never just a whoever meta, it's whoever and marksmen meta'.

Ahri Body PillowFeb 5, 20182 votes

would you rather him pop up a few hundred units away from you or pop up right on top of you

RaiyzaFeb 5, 20182 votes

A few hundred isn't bad. But it 850? THAT is broken.

I Main SwainFeb 5, 20182 votes

personally i think they should revert the stealthing mechanism to how it was before, i never saw anything op about being able to full on stealth for anyone but evelynn since hers is a constant passive. rengar especially i think has been given way too many handicaps, he went from being good and a lot of fun (probably too good admittedly) to being bad and boring for both the player and everyone else. anyways though, getting back to the actual point, i wouldnt have a problem with twitch being able to fully stealth again if they made him less crazy powerful

Teridax68Feb 5, 20182 votes

I would personally support a return to full invisibility as well, though mainly because I think the current implementation of Camouflage adds little in the way of real counterplay, and instead detracts balancing from the real issues with those champions. Out of the three champions with it, two are able to attack from out of its reveal radius (i.e. Rengar and Twitch), and Evelynn now has so much counterplay on the rest of her kit that having an awkward reveal radius doesn't quite feel appropriate anymore. Moreover, the problem with all stealth champions, not just camouflage champions, is when they get to deal upfront burst from stealth, e.g. Rengar one-shotting in a fraction of a second or Twitch auto-melting entire teams within a similar time period. In this respect, unless these champions mess up and move too close, they still don't have real counterplay to their fighting pattern. Because of this, I think stealth champions should be balanced around having fully reliable invisibility, but also heavily controlled damage, such that they can never kill a champion within the same second that they initiate a fight from stealth.

I Main SwainFeb 5, 20182 votes

part of the problem is that assassins are almost literally impossible to balance because theyre a bit of a no win scenario. either they function like theyre meant to and they can assassinate someone almost instantly before they can retaliate and so enemies arent able to really do almost anything about them, or they arent able to immediately kill them and they have to outplay or be seriously ahead to get their kills. i honestly cant think of a way though that they could be balanced in a way that solves both problems

Teridax68Feb 5, 20182 votes

I agree that the balancing of burst damage in League has always been unstable, because a lead or deficit of just a few items can, as you said, make all the difference between the assassin killing their target too quickly, and them not being able to kill anyone at all. Lethality was supposed to be a means of letting AD assassins deal more stable damage, but after many iterations and abuses, it has changed in such a manner that it no longer fulfils that goal at all. It is because of this, along with many other scaling-related problems in League (champions becoming too bursty overall, and often feeling useless when behind), that I think League needs to move away from stat-based scaling in order to become healthier. I think it's fine for teams that are ahead to destroy more objectives, and thereby come closer to killing the enemy Nexus, but I don't think it's healthy at all for individual champions to simply win a fight primarily because they won a fight previously, and in general I don't think champions should be able to get huge advantages in combat unless they've really worked hard for it. I also don't think a champion should be prevented from having any real agency just because they lost a few fights early on, and it's this kind of snowballing that often leads to games feeling so one-sided.

DuskDaUmbreonFeb 5, 20182 votes

Because it's so he can't sneak around on top of you or past you, and so he can't escape just by pressing Q.

It's most important in the jungle and in lane.

In the jungle so he can't walk right in front of the ~~one-shot machine~~ SA Kayn unnoticed.

In lane, it's so he can't waltz right past you and kill you.

And, besides, if he presses W, E, or attacks (R doesn't break it itself, as it's just an enhancer, but R-empowered autos do break it), it breaks stealth.

Ahri BakaFeb 5, 20182 votes

cries * Main here ..

Lios AshenbladeFeb 5, 20181 votes

Reduce the rats range, to 50 less than his stealth range, so you have at least a tiny chance to see him before he pops out... and remove ward clear passive from duskblade

IMAGIRAFFEFeb 5, 20181 votes

I would believe it's because he's a very squishy back liner and needs the escape advantage because it would be too unfair if he could be spotted at the same range as an assassin like Rengar or Evelynn. I know twitch is also an assassin but he's just so squishy that he needs the low detection advantage. Twitch also cannot jump to other units like lots of other assassins so higher detection would make invisibility useless even with his ultimate.