Giving Essence Reaver an Identity.

Nilok··43 votes·3,668 views

For a while now, Essence Reaver really haven't had a good identity. It is built out of Vampiric Scepter and BFS, just like Bloodthirster, but outside a few cases, is simply an inferior Bloodthirster. By the time you would get Essence Reaver, most ADC can deal with mana issues, and the life steal is wholly worse than Bloodthirster. A major problem is that Essence Reaver is so similar to Bloodthirster, you will almost always choose Bloodthister over Essence Reaver. The best way in my opinion to stop the comparison, is to remove the Life Steal and change it to a stat that is just as coveted.

With the current PBE changes to Black Cleaver losing the flat Armor Pen, some people are concerned about what they are going to build out of the Brutalizer besides Ghostblade, if they are not jungling, for AD casters. I suggest changing Essence Reaver by dropping Life Steal from the item completely and replacing it with flat Armor Pen so it builds out of Brutalizer and the baby Essence Reaver Riot has been planning so it has the identity as the other Legendary build path for Brutalizer and sister item to the new Black Cleaver, instead of a worse Bloodthirster, for AD mana based casters. By giving Essence Reaver flat Armor Pen, but not attack speed or crit, it favors AD casters who don't make much use of auto attacks. Furthermore, champions that don't use mana or are resourceless will have more trouble using this item since it will not be as cost efficient for them. I would also recommend having it so Baby Essence Reaver triggers mana on auto attack, while Essence Reaver proper triggers on physical damage to differentiate the two and support both mana hungry AD caster and ADC champions.

Thoughts and suggestions?

Edit: ShinobuElveszett had a good suggestion on how a future Essence Reaver could look.

{quoted}

summoner 31 Wannabe Essence reaver: item 1037 (875g) + 475g = 1,350g +25 attack damage +10% cooldown reduction Passive (unique): Killing a unit restores 6 mana.

item 3508 Essence reaver: item 3134 (1,337g) + summoner 31 (1,350g) + 563g = 3,250g

+50 attack damage +20% cooldown reduction Passive (unique): +20 armor penetration Passive (unique): Basic attacks restore mana equal to 3% of the physical damage dealt, increased by 1% per every 1% missing mana (up to 6%). The mana restoration passive... I think it should be more clear and intuitive, so I just changed it to 3-6% from 2-8%.

53 Comments

BeerOfRoot484312 votes

item 3042 + item 3508

Ooooooo yeaaaaaaah. Jayce Ezreal Sivir LeeSin

Nilok14 votes

Ooooo yeaaa... Lee Sin, what are you doing here?!

Maximum Zilean14 votes

{quoted}

Ooooo yeaaa... Lee Sin, what are you doing here?!

Well considering how overloaded his kit is, i'm sure Lee sin can find a way to make the item work on him.

This is a joke, not QQ'ing about Lee sin's balance or anything.

Nilok5 votes

I figured it was a joke, it's why I joined in.

Lee Sin can't make use of the primary uses of the items, mana, so I'm not too worried.

Champion Skin3 votes

But hey AD + CDR is pretty good on Lee Sin if you go for that burst Assassin Lee Sin XD

TheI3igDaddy13 votes

I thought it was a joke on how Lee can't see what items he's buying.

BeerOfRoot48431 votes

Ok, listen. I know AP support Lee Sin is all the rage right now, but I like to spice things up a little. So I've been trying out the unconventional AD support Lee Song.LeeSin

DeusVult1 votes
CubedJustice1 votes

Ooooo yeaaaaaah.Zed

50000000000000001 votes

{quoted}

item 3042 + item 3508

Ooooooo yeaaaaaaah. Jayce Ezreal Sivir LeeSin

Wait, LeeSin ?

Desmond Law7 votes

Long Sword + Faerie Charm + 400gold = Mana Needle Mana Needle: 15 AD 25% base mana regen

Mana Needle + Brutalizer = Essence Reaver 80 AD 10% CDR +10 Armor Pen 25% base mana regen Unique passive: Dealing physical damage will recover 8% of your maximum mana over 2 seconds.

Cindikle1 votes

I'd say this is actually a really good idea. But with the armor pen, it needs to lose at least 20 AD.

High AD+armor pen is just not a good combo.

Venowolf1 votes

That is a huge amount of mana refund, in 12 basic aattacks I have all my mana back...

Its better:

Unique passive: 10% of the physical damage caused, turn into mana over the next 2 seconds.

Venowolf5 votes

Well Brutalizer in Essense Reaver have a lot of sense. Its have a more useful stat than the life steal, actually the build path for ER is the same of BT and to be honest it a worse item, so Brutalizer + Mini Reaver can be a better build path!

Maximum Zilean3 votes

I kind of agree. On AD carries its a bad item, since by the time you get it. You could have gotten a stronger item to help your damage.

But there are still a few champions it works great on. Jayce is a good example, it gives him the AD he needs to remain relavent, and helps with his mana costs pretty well.

Its not an item for every champion, but there are still a select few who use it well.

Nilok2 votes

Nor should it be, Essence Reaver should be reserved for mana AD casters like Jayce or Patheon. I feel that by separating the health sustain from the mana sustain and giving it flat armor pen instead, it will be less similar to the other premier sustain AD item Bloodthirster, and more specialized as one of the main AD caster items.

Mitch Sorenstein1 votes

It's not a good item on pantheon. only a few champions every build Essence Reaver, Ez and Jayce. That is the problem, and item for only two champions? By the time you reach late game, champions overcome mana problems, you need the mana early game, but it's not a good item to rush. If anything, they should revert it to its original stats (at launch, it was a cheap item with inferior stats), so adc's can rush it (but does adc's need a buff? I don't know).

I would like something like: 25 AD, Same mana return on AA's, 10% lifesteal for 1500 gold or something.

terkmc3 votes

Pantheon I completely support this idea

Venowolf1 votes

item 3508

item 3134 + item 1053 + 863g = 3000g

60 AD 20% CD 10% Life Steal

Unique passive: 10% Armor Pen.

Unique Passive: basic attacks restore 2 - 8 % mana, the value depends of the missing mana.

Seraphic Heretic3 votes

I think you're not seeing that essence reaver actually does have an unique identity.

First of all prior to essence reaver any ad champion that needed mana had to build tear or frozen heart or something. Which is very odd considering the amount of offensive ap mana items. Basically if stacking a tear wasn't efficient on a champion or was just tedious you didn't have any way to fix mana issues. So the item is inherently rather necessary.

Also, I think while essence reaver seems to not be popular, that doesn't make it bad. The league community closely follow streamers and the pro scene and if anyone famous uses it you won't hear these complaints anymore.

Most importantly, what I'd like to say is that essence reaver is not just an option it's a good option if you know what you want. Once you built up a shield bloodthirster definitely gives you the edge in a duel, however mana issues are a huge limiting factor that take their place whether you want to admit it or not. Essence reaver on lucian for example, (Not gonna lie, I only really play lucian adc) essence reaver is:

Lucian

  1. Cheaper
  2. Gives you enough mana to use q and other spells much more often with no consequence
  3. Give cdr, an underrated stat on caster adcs

With this item Lucian gains the ability to spam his q much more often offering good poke and wave clear which can quickly overwhelm bt shield advantage. (Which is the only advantage in a fight btw they both give 80 dmg.) Also for each spellcast of course lucian gets a double shot and the dmg for the spell so the cdr is greatly appreciated on lucian.

With essence reaver and a good head on your shoulders you can often find yourself putting out much more pressure than your rival with a B.T. because they eventually feel pressured to use less spells and want to return to base because of mana issues (looking at you graves) while lucian can keep applying the same amount of pressure.

The last main reason I buy this item is that it allows you to use spells to farm camps and creeps faster without having to base. At all. Ever. This is make it an extremely good gateway item for farming up secondary items and participating in more teamfights and drags.

I realize that essence reaver gets torn apart by a lot of famous players and has a very bad reputation so I'm not going to sit here and argue with you about why essense reaver is best because it's not. It's different. 10% lifesteal and shield (B.T. advantage) vs 10% cdr and lots of mana (Essence advantage) But no one on this post seemed to really be able to find a use for this item and as someone that uses it a lot I thought I'd share my perspective on it. Even though I only build it on Lucian. Although I will admit that the item doesn't help out any champion quite as much as Lucian and Ezreal in my opinion simply because these champions specifically are ad caster that deal a lot of on hit dmg to replenish their mana with and there is a direct correlation between how much mana that have and how low their cooldowns are and the dmg they dish out in a teamfight. You can try and be conservative with Lucian and ezreal's mana pools and do just fine. (Most people do.) But you can't deny the increase in dmg output from being able to spam so hard.

I'd also like to add that if the mana portion got buffed, it would become a lot more viable on other champions such as Graves, Corki, Yorick, and Jayce. Which would give it a larger strategic niche in which you can use it. Although I don't think that's necessary because a lot of items are unpopular or highly situational and evening out the use of these items isn't really a priority to make the game better and often just shifts the the balance of power in unpredictable ways. The only reason to buff or change items in the game are really to buff or nerf champions in the game that use it or to make other item paths more viable. And Essence Reaver seems to be a perfectly viable build bath even though it's not popular.

I also may as well include my build path because it doesn't make sense for me to recommend a single item without the build path I think works best for it. And who knows, some brave souls might actually want to try it

  1. Essence Reaver
  2. Cdr boots (Eventually with Furor enchantment. You run very fast after an auto with this and tri and it's very easy to keep up with people.)
  3. Tri-Force 4.Last whisper
  4. /6. Then any combination of:
  • Bloodthirster (if I need to get a bit tankier but still want to focus on dmg)
  • Mercurial Scimitar
  • Youmuu's Ghostblade (I rarely get this buy it's particularly good vs master yi as you can pop this and run at the same speed as him so he can't get autos off while you channel your ult. A full channel of Lucian ult especially with yomus popped is enough to kill a squishy master yi even if he's fed enough to 2 or 3 shot you.)
  • Banshee's Veil
  • Infinity Edge (For the highest burst dmg)
  • Guardian Angel
  • or Blade of the Ruined King (For tank busting. Which you'll have to do often in this cinderhulk meta.)

I realize this build is very off meta and it's basically an ad ezreal build but it works and it works well. The tri-force does a very nice job of giving you crucial defense stats you would gotten from B.T. and make him scrappier while the zeal is crucial for letting you use your double shot procs faster and occasionally crit which is very nice. And the sheen is extremely nice given the amount of spellcasts you make in the build and the fact that you will be auto attacking after each of these casts. The CDR boots are just to help you further abuse the sheen and near infinite mana and allow you to do to dash, use you q and w double shot procs and then have your dash back up. Allowing you to relentlessly combo enemies with spells with no clear weak times when your spells are down.

If anyone has any question or comments of course I'll be happy to answer them but like I said I won't argue with you as to which item is better. They're different.

agbudar3 votes

its not an adc item... its an Jayce Urgot Yorick and arguably Sivir Ezreal

Silents4291 votes

Fuck. Why didn't I think of buying it on Urgot. Sounds like a wonderful idea.

But Yorick wouldn't build it.

CubedJustice1 votes

Yorick actually doesn't have that bad of mana problems. It's just in his recommended items, for no real reason.

ladention2 votes

My idea: item 3134 +item 1027 +item 1037 +388 Gold (3000 Total) Essence Reaver: +250 Mana +60 AD +10% CDR +10 Armor pen Unique passive: Your Basic Attacks restore (5+3%AD)% of maximum mana on hit..

KaisadiIIa2 votes

summoner 31 Wannabe Essence reaver: item 1037 (875g) + 475g = 1,350g +25 attack damage +10% cooldown reduction Passive (unique): Killing a unit restores 6 mana.

There is a reason why the "mini essence reaver" was never pulled to live, and this item solves the problem. Building this you sacrifice flat AD or sustain in exchange for more spamming potential (more mana regeneration and less cooldown).

item 3508 Essence reaver: item 3134 (1,337g) + summoner 31 (1,350g) + 563g = 3,250g

+50 attack damage +20% cooldown reduction Passive (unique): +20 armor penetration Passive (unique): Basic attacks restore mana equal to 3% of the physical damage dealt, increased by 1% per every 1% missing mana (up to 6%).

AD casters usually benefit more from armor penetration than they do from attack damage, since their abilities have higher base damages (obviously) than a basic attack in exchange of less scaling (they usually don't reach 100% bonus AD, but even if they do, they can't critically strike and they don't benefit from attack speed). Cooldown reduction is the ability-version of attack speed. The mana restoration passive... I think it should be more clear and intuitive, so I just changed it to 3-6% from 2-8%.

Nilok2 votes

Your version of Essence Reaver looks pretty good and the knock to the attack damage is wise as 20 armor pen would be overboard with 80 attack damage.

I think Mini Reaver may give too little mana, since it is only 2 more than Doran's Ring but without the regen, but I do like it being gated behind killing something so it isn't too powerful in the laning phase for harassing.

KaisadiIIa1 votes

Maybe we can just increase it to +15 mana upon killing an unit. You'd get 90 mana for last hitting a whole wave, which is, on average, one extra spell cast per wave cleared.

But we can't talk about numbers too much because we can't actually test it.

Krys Star1 votes

I was playing a game, and noticed Cloak of Agility only has two build paths. Infinity Edge, and Phantom Dancer. What if it also built into Essence Reaver, giving Essence Reaver a new and more appealing stat for such auto attackers?! :O

Probably a dumb idea, but just a thought. ._.

Nilok1 votes

Brutalizer already has a crit attack speed build through Ghostblade. I don't think adding Crit to Essence Reaver would be wise as it would become too efficient and people may begin buying it even on non-mana champions.

It isn't that it doesn't have stats auto attack won't want, but there are other items that will be better for them in the long run and Essence Reaver fits better as a high end AD caster item in my opinion.

Venowolf1 votes

Two build path is good enought another items like Hexdrinker, Arm Seeker, Haunting Guise onLy have one build path... Phage finally uses into Black Cleacer so its out of the list!

IwfiKe3qjM1 votes

Dunno... the only 2 things I can think of is:

  • Remove the Life steal (and change it into something else, meaning change the Vamp Scepter)
  • Change the BF Sword (although it will lose it 80 AD)

since others of BF Sword build path is:

  • Bloodthirster (20% L Steal)
  • Infinity Edge (more Crit Damage)
  • Mercurial Scimitar (MR + QSS)

The stats that matters maybe AD, CDR... Mana restore and maybe regen... (maybe AS too...(Stinger + BF Sword HYPE) (Chalice + BF Sword HYPE) (Stinger + Chalice + Pickaxe HYPE) boyz)

Venowolf1 votes

Essence Reaver can be a item to the AD Caster need Brutalizer and some kind of Mini Reaver to make it work.

Xela Syab1 votes

Idk I buy it and it works for me, gives me good lane pressure where I can keep spamming abilities.

Ace Access 1 votes

give it an extra passive

Option1. auto attacks deal X% of max mana as magic dmg Option2. auto attacks steal X% of current mana/energy/rage etc from enemy champs Option3. give it a spell vamp Option4. reduces silence durations by 40%

this is all I could come up with

Champion Skin1 votes

Option1. Ehh I think this could be pretty broken if you combine it with Muranama (and the mana restore would allow the mana to damage activate of Muramana to deal more damage) especially on someone like Jayce who could quickly trigger it 4 times rather quickly (hit + 3 W hits in ranged form)

Option2. Kassadin and Wits End used to have Mana burn and this was removed because it destroyed champions with low mana while doing almost nothing to champions who actually builds mana so I don't think Riot wants to introduce anymore mana burn or mana steal

Option3. Spell Vamp.. yeah that could be good but possibly abusive? I am not sure... and Riot doesn't seem to like spell vamp very much

**Option4.**Ehh I don't think it is very good as there are very few silences left in the game and with it being so rare I don't think it would be very good to have an item with counters it in specific

And you don't actually have to give it a passive though... you could give it an activate... like temporary CDR? A mana restore? Free abilities for a short duration? Hmm I can't really seem to think of much

CubedJustice2 votes

Can you say blue build blitzcrank?

Ace Access 1 votes

active: getting a kill of assist within 5sec of activation of item gives 50% cdr of the last ability used, item cooldown 1:20 mins :P active: use 75% of current mana to restore hp in a 5:1 ratio, coodlown 2mins

this item is hard to think up anything for

PL551 votes

Maybe instead of having the vampiric scepter, they could add in a weaker version of essence reaver (like bami's cinder is to sunfire cape/cinderhulk) so it will solve early mana issues that ad casters have. Then maybe replace the b.f. with one or two other items and give essence reaver different stats but remove the lifesteal. So with your idea it could be Brutalizer + mini essence reaver= Essence reaver: 50 AD +10% cdr +10 armor pen and unique passive

Kiech Bepho1 votes

Mini essence reaver, brutalizer, and vamp cepter. The new trinity force.

Ace Access 1 votes

don't you mean Vampiric Mana Force ? :P

LadyRenly1 votes

Poppy I wish it were a hammer

Ace Access 1 votes

Jayce I know how you feel

Auz the Ripper1 votes

I was thinking it should build out of item 1038 + item 3024 And the stats to: item 3508 Essence Reaver 80 AD 20 armor 300 mana 10% CDR UNIQUE PASSIVE: Your basic attacks restore mana equal to between 2% and 8% of the physical damage dealt, based on your missing mana.

The armor is more valuable to the AD caster who would use essence reaver than lifesteal because AD casters either A: want to survive until their combo is finished and then have no intention of sticking around (Ala Jayce, Pantheon, and maybe Talon) B: have other ways of sustaining themselves built into their kits (I.E. Urgot or Yorick)

However the comparably low armor and high price would still make it still less desirable to champions who don't need the mana sustain over a straight AD item and a straight armor item so it wouldn't become an abusive armor/AD item.

Additionally the mana would give it increased synergy with manamune and item

bulldoggamer1 votes

It could use to have an item to build out of that grants the mana passive early on in the game. Like first back early on. And it honestly use either some more AD (I think that would be the best option), armor pen, crit chance, or add the spellblade passive. I think it needs to be able to be a reasonable first item instead of an IE or have it serve a similar purpose to brutalizer, or haunting guise, where you sit on the base item for most of the game and eventually make it your 4th or 5th item.

Cindikle1 votes

It just needs the item that was on the PBE that gave it the mana leach passive that built into ER.

Problem is that the champions who would build it, wont be rushing it. They often want Brutalizer early. Probably T1 boots. After that they usually get their AD item or Last Whisper. If you're past the early game and are not needing mana anymore you'd get BT. If you needed mana you probably got a Tear in the lanning phase. Which costs ~1k less, brings more consistent mana regen tools and the active is powerful. Like ER you wont be finishing either one later. So you may as well get the one that's actually a late game item with equal power for 1k less.

It needs a reason to be a rush item to work. Late game Tear wins. Mid game maybe ER is better, but they're often better options to work around your mana issues.

Visigoth1 votes

Pantheon Olaf Heavy Breathing

Teridax681 votes

Thoughts on this:

  • Essence Reaver desperately needs a smaller mana-restoring component in order to be viable, since right now it's almost always purchased at a point where its passive becomes a lot less interesting (i.e. most champions with mana problems early on don't have to worry about mana issues anymore).
  • While just adding a baby component would do a lot of good for ER, I'm not sure if the game's in a state where the item can be viable (Essence Reaver being unviable might even be a deliberate move): mana-based lane dynamics are heavily dependent on attrition, especially in bot lane, and getting an item early on that unlocks otherwise costly mana gates would mess this that, for better or worse. Ideally, the baby component should have a strong enough tradeoff that only the most mana-hungry champions would rush it, but there's also a risk that all marksmen would end up getting it early on just because of how long it would allow them to last in lane while spamming spells.
  • I think one mistake Riot made when testing Soul Sickle (a short-lived mid-tier component to ER) is that they gave it both mana sustain and life steal: not only does the life steal not do much for people who'd pick this early (e.g. aggressive AD casters looking to apply more pressure through spells), it also means picking this item would let marksmen stick to bot lane like a barnacle by playing passively, which would turn laning into a boring farm-fest. Giving the component CDR instead of life steal would allow spell-based AD champions to play a lot more aggressively with spells on all fronts, without touching their healing in lane.
  • I don't think armor pen works for Essence Reaver because there are already a lot of items out there better-suited for killing squishies (item 3142 , for example, is a caster/autoattacker hybrid item that does just that). The idea of sustain on Essence Reaver also makes sense, because you're already purchasing it for mana sustain.
  • With that said, life steal isn't really the best stat here, since it doesn't synergize with most spells. I think Essence Reaver should be turned into a premium sustain item for AD casters by having its life steal apply on ability-based physical damage too, at least against champions. I don't think the mana restoration should apply to spells, though, since past a certain amount of damage you'd trivialize mana costs, whereas having it only apply on autoattacks means you'd have to alternate between spells and basic attacks to top up.

TL;DR I think Essence Reaver should be turned into the go-to sustain item for AD casters. It definitely needs a mana restoration component to be viable, though doing so without disrupting attrition mechanics in bot lane would be tough to do.

FantasySniper1 votes

Essence Reaver's Identity: You spam, deal way more damage, and don't care about mana. (basically what Muramana wants to be, but isn't at all)

I seriously doubt that there will ever be an advanced item version of ER. Ezreal, Jayce, Sivir, etc, would be too good at harass if they didn't have to manage mana early and not worry about not having enough for an escape or a fight.

JimmyNtheKudos1 votes

I really wish there was a ~1400g item in its build path that gave CDR and some type of mana regen.

DEmperor951 votes

In my opinion, just buff the CDR to 20% and we have an item that is worth getting over BT.

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