@Riot: Why didn't you annihilate the Institute of War instead of retconning it?

Nilok·May 9, 2015·45 votes·4,578 views

I understand that the writers were having a lot of frustration with the Lore up to that point and how the Institute of War, the League of Legends, was constraining the world they wanted to create. However, was retconning the entire lore really the best idea, both for continuity for players and work load?

Why wasn't the Institute of War utterly annihilated or simply vanished from the world, summoners and all, without a trace?

This would have had the world and lore be mostly in the same place we have currently have, maybe with a short time skip to move the world further forwards, but without the need to retcon so many stories that were connected directly to the IoW and summoners, like Jax, Lee Sin, and Ionian Boots of Lucidity to name but a few.

This also opens up new stories as Demacia, Noxus, Shurima, and all the other city states new and old have to deal with the loss of the major super power that kept balance on the continent for so long and the impending threats like the Harrowing, more and new Void spawn, the Watchers, and everything else as well as each other.

This also explains why Bard has suddenly appeared after being gone for ages. Without the Institute of War to force their balance, the world is shifting quickly towards utter annihilation, who's appearance currently doesn't seem clear or well explained. In fact, Bard almost seems like the Institute of War itself in the from of a champion based on his lore.

107 Comments

67450548_DELMay 9, 20159 votes

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NilokMay 9, 20155 votes

Part of it, but not a good explanation for why the vanishing concept was never considered, where all the summoners and IoW are removed from Runeterra by some unknown force, which would have been a change almost as large as the retcon, but not deep effect the champions as was worried in the post, or the added work load of redesigned all the champions from square one instead of expanding them.

I can understand that a loss of the IoW would have had consequences to the world, but it would have also been a perfect way to introduce Bard as he was presented since he was already in development at the time, as well as Shurima and the Harrowing as it makes them feel even more impactful now that there isn't anyone to 'keep the peace'. A random thought just crossed my mind, was Bard's story modified to make him the new stand in the for the IoW after it was removed or was that the plan before the retcon?

The post speaks about the valuing the storytelling about characters but then also says that a story about a 'crumbling' IoW would effect their characters deeply, which is a good thing you want for storytelling, unless you want your character to be mostly, if not completely, stagnate. That actually raises more questions now on how and if they plan to advance to story in a meaningful way.

67450548_DELMay 9, 20153 votes

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NilokMay 9, 20155 votes

Yes, it was stagnate, but I don't see much of a change. It has been eight months since the retcon, more than half a year, and while the champions are being presented differently with grand introductions, aside from Azir (Edit: and Bard) they don't seem out of place if the IoW was still around since the whole argument at the time is that he would never join.

I can understand that the IoW was a crutch, but so is the retcon. If they had explored some aftermath of a Runeterra without an IoW, however small, it would have expanded the story instead of restarting it. I can understand Disney doing this with Star Wars' expanded universe since that is massive and instead picking the best parts out of it or making nods to it, but Riot has a deep understanding on their lore, its history, and can use it to turn that 'duct tape' into something solid. Remember, even if you build you house where the old one was, it will not be truly 'home' until it is as lived in. The amount of content and insight into the champions and what they did was a fun part of the game, where you could say, "Ya, between fighter her sister, she runs a bakery." Little things like that which add more to the story and the depth of the characters than a few simple paragraphs for a bio.

Bard as presented in the lore is a confusing case. They spend all this money on an amazing animation to introduce Bard, then come out with three paragraphs that just says, people don't understand him and he keeps the balance of the world so it doesn't go boom. There isn't even a tease of a looming threat or foreshadowing for why Bard is here. He has been gone for ages, so long that only a few people even remember his symbol, and now he appears again to stop... something? His lore is currently the most shallow so far as he just seems to be the IoW stand in to fix things so it can't go too wrong.

If they don't finish that big 'lore upgrade' they have been working on by September, a full year since the retcon, I will have to say they announced the retcon far too soon, as they have thrown off the life support, but are still stuck in crutches.

67450548_DELMay 9, 20154 votes

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NilokMay 9, 20153 votes

Gnar would want to be where all the fun people are, he would join.

Kalista is a spirit of Vengeance, either the IoW intervenes and she takes them up on their offer of aid, or she uses them the exact her purpose beneath their nose.

'Imprisoning' Rek'Sai is the same as using Fiddlesticks to execute summoners, more likely due to how bestial she is, she would be more contained to a region and directed into murdering a more intended target.

Bard's purpose is to maintain balance and prevent massive harm to the world, the same goal the IoW has. Though you are correct, as I originally stated, his return would be the expected outcome from the IoW vanishing. Perhaps even the origin of the IoW could have been inspired by Bard due to their shared goal.

Reboot, retcon, it still leaves just a bitter taste in one's mouth. Even DC and Marvel are starting to say "maybe we shouldn't do anymore reboots."

You get a spoon of ice cream from the animation, a spoon of sugar from the bio, and then the pantry is empty, at least until the next champion is released. There is a difference from 'spoonfeeding' and a simple lack of content. There is a difference between a story that has a lot of content hidden away, but finished that people guess at, and a story that is unfinished.

We are shown a distilled version of Bard in the beautiful animation, balance without preference (both sides ended up worse for what he did), but nothing else of real note. The storyteller from "The Wonder Above" was most likely a decedent of the child, or else he is as old as Zilean.

You should never throw away your aids for healing when your muscles have atrophied, you need steady progress before you can even stand, let alone run. If they had been showing more regular lore content than in the recent past, I would agree with you, but they have not. We get a big piece of interesting lore for the world, a champion comes out of it, then we move on.

Still, they have four more months to find their feet again.

Also, I think 'buzzword' has become a bit of a buzzword as well.

67450548_DELMay 9, 20153 votes

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NilokMay 9, 20154 votes

The reason I say a year is due to the amount of respect I have for Riot. If it was less, I would only give them a few months. If that year elapses without their promise fulfilled, it is a hit to my trust for Riot, and wears away at my respect for them.

I didn't mean to make you so upset. Have a good day Denivir.

67450548_DELMay 9, 20154 votes

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DG AshabelMay 9, 20155 votes

Impetual's spamming is annoying but I don't think everyone has the same issues with this that he does.

To continue from your pantry metaphor, the problem everyone has is that the old pantry was destroyed because it was deemed too small and a new state-of-the-art one was promised, but then the new pantry was never built, its architect loudly stormed off the project and the construction crew has wandered off after awkwardly hanging out for a while.

So now we have a couple of fridges sitting in the middle of what was supposed to be the new pantry's foundation, and the interior decorator sometimes drops by and says "Oh yes yes the pantry is still being built we are just having some construction equipment problems, but yes yes the new pantry will come soon and it will be just like the old one but better". Except that nobody believes him anymore because there are no more architect and construction crew, and some of his comments make people wonder whether the previous architect's blueprint is still being followed.

I'm pretty sure most people don't actually want the old pantry back so much as they'd like to do away with all this brick and mortar-style soap opera and get on with the actual pantry-building.

67450548_DELMay 9, 20151 votes

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DG AshabelMay 9, 20155 votes

No, I'm basing my conclusion on the fact that the architect left a statement about quitting on his twitter and commented that the project doesn't have a backup head architect, as well as on the fact that the construction crew no longer pick up their phones and their contact info has been erased from the construction company's website. :^)

GreenLoreMay 9, 20151 votes

{quoted}

'Imprisoning' Rek'Sai is the same as using Fiddlesticks to execute summoners, more likely due to how bestial she is, she would be more contained to a region and directed into murdering a more intended target.

However imprisoning a champ just to force them into the league is not a good idea in the first place. It basically means that the champ has no chance to interact with anyone ever again in a meaningful way and it only adds to the op-ness of the IoW,that they are able to capture and enslave these powerful champs(add in the fact that they are able to summon champs against their will like they did with morgana,taric,malphite,etc. and there is nothing stopping them from just imprisoning all persons who go against their will).

MotajoMay 9, 20152 votes

{quoted}It basically means that the champ has no chance to interact with anyone ever again in a meaningful way

To be fair, something as mindless and monstrous as Rek'Sai wouldn't have much meaningful interaction anyway. She'll either destroy a place, get slain trying, or end up in some bloody stalemate with whatever she was fighting. What else are people going to do, tame her?

GreenLoreMay 10, 20154 votes

But she can oppose others.She has her own territory in shurima,so there can be stories of people having to cross the sai and escape/fight her,there can be attempts to exterminate her or she could start trying to expand her territory which could lead to her clashing with other shurima champs like Azir or Skarner(remember skarner is now guarding something that lies underground we don't know what it is,but that alone sounds like they want to set up a scenario where the xer'sai start to burrow into skarners underground cave).

This is waaaay better than "she sits in her cage all die and cries with her non-existent eyes"

DG AshabelMay 9, 20154 votes

In the rare times when I actually have the creative energy on something other than my game, I've been entertaining the idea of writing a Rek'sai Judgment.

My idea was that rather than write an actual Judgment, I'd write a story of the Institute trying to capture her. So they employ several Summoners, as well as Sivir and Rengar (with Gnar tagging along) as the hunting strike force. The capture attempt goes bust, but one of the Summoners does manage to tag her with a beacon spell that allows one to summon her onto the Fields of Justice. From there, Malzahar the Great Void Ambassador manages to convince her into a certain degree of cooperation.

Bam, Rek'sai is still at large and occasionally posing a problem for Shurimans, the stories with her can be set both in and outside of the Institute, and she fits within the lore. Obviously only one way of handling the situation, but I think it serves as a fine example that there are ways to explain why Rek'sai is being summoned without being captive.

( Maybe she and Cho'Gath are dating and sometimes he lets her get summoned instead of him under the condition that she doesn't do anything that disrupts the long-term Voidborn agenda. See? Here's another solution. )

GreenLoreMay 9, 20152 votes

There are some problems with that.First of all Rek'sai is a beast,she isn't just unable to speak,but she is literally a wild animal and the Q&A made it sound that even the other void creatures aren't eager to come close to her,so I doubt that Malzahar(Who isn't even from the void) would be able to convince her into cooperation.

Then there is the fact that even if a summoner was able to slap some summoning spell on her,then why WOULDN'T they imprison her?They could simply summon and capture her.In fact its been implied that there is no need for slapping a summoner spell on her in the first place,because like i already said,summoners have demonstrated to summon champs against their will either way,which they basically did with all the other-world champs(yeah even being on a different world didn't protect them) and lee sin also tried to summon a beast from the kumungu jungle and only failed due to his inexperience.

It would also easily help the shurimans getting rid of her,they'd just need to be like "uh summoners could you just summon her into a volcano or something like this?I mean its not like she is really needed in the league since we already have over 100 champs and she doesn't get along with anyone anyway"

DG AshabelMay 9, 20153 votes

A lot of those are very good points! I'll have to consider them if I ever go back to that story, though it might not happen for a while.

I do feel equipped to answer some of those with possible solutions.

"Could you just summon her into a volcano or something?" Summoning isn't the same as teleportation. While we do have cases of summoners teleporting champions in the Fields of Justice, we don't know if such free-range teleportation is available without a psychic link and a magically infused place like the Summoner's Rift. If it was, Valoran wouldn't have such problems as bandits and piracy because every major business would simply teleport their goods around. Poor Gangplank would be out of job.
Being unable to actually contain Rek'sai could be explained by the purple glow in her tunnels. Perhaps the reason why she can instantly cover huge distance by burrowing is because she can "burrow" through the fabric of reality, essentially creating void portals. Something like that would be very difficult to contain. Yes, they would be able to use the beacon to pull her back to the desired location, but doing that every single time she digs away would be an enormous waste of resources.
Given that we already have champions with completely alien mindsets in Fiddlesticks, Nocturne and Zyra, as well as complete lunatics like Renekton and Teemo, I imagine League would have summoners trained in handling the mental strain of linking up with extremely irregular cases.

GreenLoreMay 10, 20153 votes

1.Summoners were able to summon others from a different plane of existence without the need of a psychic link.Lee sin tried to summon a beast from the kumungu jungle,without a psychic link(and he wouldn't have tried that if it wasn't possible).Even if the volcano thing wasn't possible,it would allow them a well prepared attack against Rek'sai. And well the thing is Gangplank is out of job,his lore mentions that he had to give up piracy to become a champion :p. But the big difference here is that Rek'sai is a monster,there is no reason for her to get any special protection from anyone and she makes a large part of shurima completely uninhabitable.The criminals of most city states are either not nearly enough of a problem or joined the league and thus gained protection from it.

2.This is actually a good point,though I find it hard to believe that the powerful summoners wouldn't be able to find a way to restrict her movements.Or it would at least allow for a coordinated strike against her.

3.Its not about Summoners linking their minds with the champ,the question is more how the link functions.I remember that it was explained that champs like swain and j4 aren't trying to kill each other simply because they can't(because there isn't any friendly fire on the SR),which implies that the summoner doesn't have complete control over the champ on the fields of justice,which again would beg the question,why rek'sai goes along with all this.The complete control thing is also something riot didn't want to have,so it would bring another problem back into the game.

NarasimhaMay 10, 20152 votes

Kalista doesn't make any sense, she has no NEED for the IoW. If anything, it would only serve to limit her. She's a centuries old Spirit of Vengence. What need has she of an organization a few decades young?

And while imprisiong Rek'sai is the only logical decision, personally, I've always found that to be the worst option. Its basically the last straw, the way of saying "We couldn't think of any other reason to have them. So we captured them." It limits the character's growth and ability to respond to the outside world.

Also, slight tangent, the story teller was the child from Bard's video, they outright said it in his Q&A.

TauNoob1May 9, 20155 votes

{quoted}

http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/shamwow-vince-look-of-disapproval.jpg

Gnar has no reason to join.

Kalista has no reason to join.

Rek'Sai straight up has no reason to join (and no, imprisoning her solves nothing)

Bard has no reason to join.

The REBOOT (not retcon, they're starting from scratch) is not a crutch, but a new beginning.

When you live in misery, first thing you wanna do is get out, just ask Riot realized their house was a cramped dump, and they got the resources to build a mansion. Doing that takes a long-ass time.

I'm getting real tired of "depth", yet another buzzword. I read the whole JoJ, and I can tell you that Sivir and Poppy going all Lindsey Lohan adds nothing. For gigs? Sure. For actual development? No.

Another buzzword, "shallow": dude, not accusing you of anything, but this is a 50-50 thing: Riot does their part, but you also gotta do yours...

"The Wonder Above" gives you the sneak peek of Bard's shtick, an how the Floating Villages see him.

"Bard: Mountain" gives you the prologue: the Floating Villages are under attack. By whom? Noxus. Why? The Elder guards an artifact capable of splitting a mountain in half. Put two and two together and you downright KNOW what they're gonna use the thing for. Bard does too, and so yoinks it away, else he'd be neglecting his duties.

The kid being carried at the end of the video is the Storyteller from The Wonder Above, and is basically retelling the events of the video to those three kids.

All that's missing is Chapter Número Uno: his full lore. Between the tech issues (yes, actual tech issues, cynicism can stay out, "everything I don't understand is easier", etc.) and who knows what else (Narrative is not telling, because like IronStylus always reminds us: NO PROMISES.) it's been delayed.

People complain about "spoonfeeding" but then throw a fit when they don't spoil anything, and if they do, they cry "z-paw-ee-lur-z!".

Riot threw away the life support and the crutches, and they're rekindling their muscles now. It's about time.

People aren't so much angry about the retcon itself its HOW BLODDY LONG its taking Riot to add any content. It's been over a year and they still have close to nothing done.

Doctor IvelliusMay 9, 20155 votes

All of your opinion aside (plenty of us liked the League of Legends, and it worked fine as a vehicle for telling stories), the central problem remains that the storyline has been, according to your metaphor, homeless and malnourished for months. They haven't built anything on top of the vacant lot; they just bulldozed a functional if overcrowded house and haven't done anything with the rubble.

67450548_DELMay 9, 20151 votes

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DG AshabelMay 9, 20154 votes

It actually is writing issues as well. The Narrative Team has been going without a Senior Narrative Designer for over six months now, ever since Tom Abernathy quit the position. They're about as healthy as a freshly beheaded chicken that's been running around a backyard and leaving blood and feathers everywhere.

Also, a whole bunch of members of the Narrative Team quit since the retcon announcement, so we can assume the chicken is missing wings and a leg as well.

Thankfully, Riot Games are like a mad doctor; they can revive the chicken if they frankenstein new wings and head onto its body. The problem is that they would need to find those wings and head first, and nobody is willing to give them a chicken head for some reason.

Vistha KaiMay 9, 20153 votes

None of those examples have anything to do with the Narrative team, who are in charge of Lore. Funny ain't it?

XulsigaeMay 9, 20155 votes

The lore was only stagnant because it wasn't being expanded. Many roads led to the IOW, but none of them had to end there. It is limited thinking that makes stories end and not start new arcs.

Jeddy017May 9, 20151 votes

Whoa,where is the original post,the thread this comment came from?

ShínyMay 9, 20151 votes

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4842307&page=2

Jeddy017May 9, 20154 votes

Long time no see. :) First and foremost, I apologize for my own silence on the forums – we definitely owe you guys more interaction than we've given you, and we know we've messed up on that front. We'll try to do better.

Aw yes,another comment from the Narrative claiming they want to improve their communication.And she says "try" too.As a wise master once said,"Do or do not,there is no try." While they certainly have came to the Boards every now & then over the last 8 months,it's clear that the "better" part of that statement isn't happening.

ShínyMay 9, 20152 votes

Just a heads up Runaan is a she :)

Also yeah pretty disappointing regarding their communication, I don't believe Runaan has posted even once on the new boards :\

DG AshabelMay 9, 20156 votes

A critical question to ask here is...

Is Runaan even still employed with Riot? Googling for her name gave me her Twitter and Reddit accounts, but none of those have been updated for a very long time. Her Twitter account only contains one link from March 2015, and her Reddit account seems to have remained untouched since last November.

I feel this is a critical question to ask because none of the other members of the narrative team from that time are still around. Jaredan gave a frustratingly obfuscated answer when asked about it, but other evidence speaks louder than that. Opeli hasn't posted around these parts for at least three months and her Twitter account has been deleted, while Tom Abernathy - the previous senior narrative designer - has rather loudly quit some months ago, and his biting and dismissive remarks hinted that he might have been fired over the negative response to the retcon/reboot/whatever you may call it.

The thing is, just because that was the explanation way back then, doesn't mean it's still the explanation six months later, especially given that huge parts of the narrative team have swapped out and Riot Games doesn't actually have a senior narrative designer (which means they don't have a narrative direction either).

Tesla EffectMay 9, 20153 votes

Yes, I want to know as well. Given the fact that later dev. comments were saying that some form of Summoners will be returning in the lore.

For what I see on their main site of what we know of, Senior Narrative Designer and Narrative Archivist have opened up. Now this is ether to fill more people for the job or to replace the old ones, we are not sure, but the Archivist one intrigues me. This means they have a specific role in the narrative team to gather all the art, writing and so one related to lore and make it more accessable for other people (in other words, a role to help and make easier accessed lore on the main site).

DG AshabelMay 9, 20155 votes

Unless there is something very different about how Riot operates, one doesn't really hire two Senior Narrative Designers to work on a single game. That's like having two chefs in one kitchen or two directors on one movie. The purpose of the SND is to make sure that the work of the entire narrative department flows together into a single vision, therefore two narrative designers is detrimental to a cohesive project because there would be two separate visions.

That said, the first time someone spotted that position on the career list was about a month or two after Tom Abernathy quit. In addition, one of Abernathy's last comments on Riot Games was a scathing claim that the position of a narrative lead doesn't exist within the company. It's safe to assume that they're trying to employ a new Senior Narrative Designer after Abernathy quit, just like it would be safe to assume that Riot has been operating without someone in that position for the last six months (therefore the extremely sluggish developments with narrative).

I said it before, but I don't envy them. It's pretty hard to find a senior narrative designer in this industry, let alone one with four years of experience. A narrative designer with that sort of pedigree would sooner join a company that specializes in story-driven games, since it would give them more opportunity to showcase their work and turn their name into a brand. Not only that, but joining a company that so recently had a huge public controversy regarding their narrative department is simply too much of a career risk.

NilokMay 9, 20151 votes

Good digging on your part and that is some pretty sour news.

If it has been up for six months with no takers for a major position in an prominent company like Riot, than that means Mr. Abernathy's exit may have poisoned the well for Riot looking for established Senior Narrative Designers. If that is the case Riot will be hard pressed to get a Senior Narrative Designer unless there is a public and internal shift in their management and company relating to lore.

DG AshabelMay 9, 20152 votes

They might be able to find someone if they knock down their expectations a little bit. Expecting a senior narrative designer with four years experience to apply for a position in a company that is only responsible for a single game, one that is not story-driven and has recently very loudly divorced itself from its own lore, is completely bonkers.

Most of the video game writers with so much experience are either already spoken for (Chris Avellone, David Gaider, Jeffrey Yohalem) or are being offered work from all directions (Rhianna Pratchett, Tom Jubert, Jonas Kyratzes). In the latter case, locking themselves into a single company would actually hurt their income and public exposure.

StrawberrycocoaMay 9, 201513 votes

As a former Dawngate player, want to comment on this piece:

The idea that players could influence the story was pretty misleading – at any “story match,” only ten players would legitimately get to fulfill the role of a summoner. In addition, story by vote or story by chance can often end with unsatisfying results (simply because of the random chance). Strong storytelling is deeply crafted.

Dawngate proved to me that player-driven stories CAN work, and work amazingly well.

Dawngate used a serial webcomic as it's storytelling (and promotions) vehicle. It had three-to-four interwoven plot lines and when a character hit a crossroads they put the decision to a player vote by using games played to decide (you make your pick, play games, and the more games and wins you get the more votes you contribute).

But the trick to it is, the player story choices never quite played out how you expected. There was a twist to how it came about.

When Zalgus and Raina had to choose between obeying the mission of their Queen to travel to Maridia as envoys, or to delay their arrival to investigate an attack on the abbey where their childhood friend Kindra lived, players chose to have them travel to the abbey.

Now, players already knew from Kindra's backstory in her profile what was going on: Kinda's backstory is that she slaughtered the sisters of her abbey and became a shadowy assassin. So what we expected of the Kindra story was that Zalgus and Raina catch Kindra in the act of slaughter.

What happened instead is this: Zalgus and Raina arrive at the abbey in the aftermath. Bodies are being burned on a pyre, the abbey is a wreck. They investigate, and Zalgus learns the truth of their childhood friend through clairvoyance magic but spares his sister (Raina) that knowledge. They find a little girl, traumatized and terrified, hidden behind some rubble.

This little girl, however, was a Shaper. The spirit of Terror had bound to her, taking the form of a large wave of ectoplasm.

The terrified little girl lashed out at Raina and Zalgus with tendrils of glowing slime, scattering everything around her. Raina, whose spirit was Preservation, called up shards of stained glass from a broken window and empowered them into a shield to defend themselves until the girl wore herself out and collapsed. They carried her out of the abbey to safety.

So instead of the expected story of Zalgus and Raina catching Kindra doing the atrocities we already knew she did, we got a new character introduced who would have been a playable shaper down the line, and a new Raina skin themed around that stained glass shield.

Player Choices brought about that story path. A new skin and a new character came about from our decisions, but with the way the writing was handled, it still felt engaging. Emotional investment of the readers was still a huge part of it. It was player choice that was ALSO deeply crafted.

What I am getting at is, you CAN have it both ways. Engaging the players directly in a compelling story to flesh out the gameplay was an amazing thing, and I'd love to see Riot pursue it.

Ebonmaw DragonMay 9, 201511 votes

{quoted}

As a former Dawngate player, want to comment on this piece:

Dawngate proved to me that player-driven stories CAN work, and work amazingly well.

I dont think that EA thinks the same

http://rs1253.pbsrc.com/albums/hh594/NKassirer/Reaction%20Gifs/Random%20or%20Other/RegularShoooooohhhhhh.gif~c200

DG AshabelMay 9, 201510 votes

I'm not sure EA can actually think. If they do, their ability to comprehend what makes a successful game is inherently bust.

I and a friend have recently sat down, went through their catalogue of the last two years and discovered that out of 14 non-sports games they released since Mass Effect 3, 8 were simple flops and one was a major publicity disaster.

( We didn't count Dungeon Keeper Mobile because it wasn't a game, it was shame given form. )

Ebonmaw DragonMay 9, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=DG Ashabel,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=lgL6PLhd,comment-id=0000000300000000,timestamp=2015-05-09T23:08:46.457+0000)

I'm not sure EA can actually think. If they do, their ability to comprehend what makes a successful game is inherently bust.

I and a friend have recently sat down, went through their catalogue of the last two years and discovered that out of 14 non-sports games they released since Mass Effect 3, 8 were simple flops and one was a major publicity disaster.

( We didn't count Dungeon Keeper Mobile because it wasn't a game, it was shame given form. )

Of course they do, they think about money(?)

Ariel the CruelMay 10, 20154 votes

out of 14 non-sports games they released

And yet. The sports games all still raked in crap-tons of money. Even though the only thing they changed was the numbers on jerseys. EA Standards.

Be thankful they [mostly] ignore Bioware after the acquisition.

Vistha KaiMay 10, 20152 votes

Unfortunately last two Bioware games weren't masterpieces anyway.

KrinuMay 10, 20153 votes

Eh, I liked DAI. It wasn't "gush about it for weeks afterward" good, but I definitely enjoyed the game and it was definitely worth my money.

NarasimhaMay 10, 20152 votes

Compared to DA2, it was a godsend. And I did enjoy it. At the least, it was worth the hype.

sp441May 9, 20153 votes

TL;DR: "It's haaaaaard."

Darth Pixy MisaMay 10, 20157 votes

I never understood this, IoW are not the Justice Friends, or the JLA. IoW is the United Nations, full of selfish buracrats and two faced politicians.

Retconing was heavy handed and the sign of lazy writing. You can explain the inactivity in IoW by looking at the UN. Simply Noxus is on the security council and vetos everything, or even better the Noxian and Demacian Reps on the Council are rich merchants and have networks of spies and tons bribes going to make sure nothing is done.

KING OF MASKSMay 9, 20155 votes

Gameplay/story segregation is the lazy way out and they know it. The retcon was a mistake and League is a worse game for it.

Tesla EffectMay 9, 20153 votes

Their site still isnt fully updated from what I see, and thats their main center from where they promote the games news, the lore and many more information. So we cant count off the lore from expanding just yet, if they still arent finished updating their own site.

But for now, the no lore tab at the top will concern me a bit, not much cause the site isnt finished and all, but still concern me non the less.

NilokMay 9, 20153 votes

Sadly, thanks to DG Ashabel's digging, we now know that Riot is still looking for a new Senior Narrative Designer for the past six months after Mr. Abernathy's exit, and due to his last comment, may have a poisoned well for getting new talent. http://www.riotgames.com/careers/25957

[{quoted}](name=DG Ashabel,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=lgL6PLhd,comment-id=00000002000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-05-09T21:45:38.534+0000)

Unless there is something very different about how Riot operates, one doesn't really hire two Senior Narrative Designers to work on a single game. That's like having two chefs in one kitchen or two directors on one movie. The purpose of the SND is to make sure that the work of the entire narrative department flows together into a single vision, therefore two narrative designers is detrimental to a cohesive project because there would be two separate visions.

That said, the first time someone spotted that position on the career list was about a month or two after Tom Abernathy quit. In addition, one of Abernathy's last comments on Riot Games was a scathing claim that the position of a narrative lead doesn't exist within the company. It's safe to assume that they're trying to employ a new Senior Narrative Designer after Abernathy quit, just like it would be safe to assume that Riot has been operating without someone in that position for the last six months (therefore the extremely sluggish developments with narrative).

I said it before, but I don't envy them. It's pretty hard to find a senior narrative designer in this industry, let alone one with four years of experience. A narrative designer with that sort of pedigree would sooner join a company that specializes in story-driven games, since it would give them more opportunity to showcase their work and turn their name into a brand. Not only that, but joining a company that so recently had a huge public controversy regarding their narrative department is simply too much of a career risk.

TheGrandAllianceMay 10, 20152 votes

The "retconn" thing people keep talking about is speculation: Just because a few Riot employes go before a panel and "declare the world over" doesn't mean anything changed. Furthermore there has been ZERO lore updates since then, and of course most champion pages remain the same.

This idea of "summoners" being removed from lore" is only tentative speculation by RIOT, nothing official, and not like RIOT has control over its lore anyways once it exists.

NilokMay 10, 20151 votes

Runaan speaks directly on how they want to remove summoners and how it constrains them.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4842307&page=2#post49817319

However, at this point with the lore team as they are, I doubt anything of importance will happen.