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You want to know what's funny about Ryze?

Nilok··54 votes·4,960 views
Champion.gg - Ryze Top Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

Watching him fall.

Okay, I know the remake has just come out and people need time to adjust, but this is just bad comedy. Last time we saw a win rate this low was when Bard was released, and this is League of Legends' mascot, the giant statue of whom stands in their office.

I'll give it a week, but I have to ask, what is the Balance Team on and how did they sneak it past security?

Edit: Down votes already it seems. Sadly some people can't laugh at the irony of Ryze falling and the humor that no one in plat+ ranked seems to know how to play his new kit even though there isn't any really crazy mechanics added.

Edit 2: I am still playing Ryze and getting to know his new kit and what works and what still needs work. Currently, my view is his kit is powerful, but a bit at odds with itself at times.

Edit 3: Tank Ryze seems to be dead sadly, with the reduced mana ratios, CDR being wasted on him, and more reliance on AP, I find he needs to take a more traditional burst mage build. His Q also needs some work, maybe have it pass through minions at a reduced damage since it get caught on them too much. His targeted moves seem a little short on the range side and could use a slight range increase.

85 Comments

Mandang033 votes

Why are people still surprised when winrates drop after changes? Seriously, this has happened HOW MANY times now? It doesn't mean you knee-jerk buff, doesn't even mean you buff at all sometimes...

Nilok10 votes

Oh, I'm not surprised, I expected it. However, the scale of the drop is the crazy part. With how the last two major remakes, Tristana and now Ryze, along with the last major champion, Bard, I expect remake to perform in the mid to low 40% win rate at release. I will be pleasantly surprised if it is higher, but I don't expect it anymore.

Mandang020 votes

Do they have statistics for before/after pick rate? I suspect a lot of people who weren't playing him before are trying him now (and failing, by the looks of it). This is the part most people leave out when they discuss winrate changes.

Vistha Kai7 votes

There is a lot of statistic on champion.gg. Pick rate and win rate by patch. Win rate by games played. To name the few.

Statistically everybody who now has less than 50 games with Ryze just feeds and loses. Which is nearly 3/4 of people playing Ryze.

Thryale3 votes

you forgot veigar

Only Play Darius4 votes

Veigar got some serious buffs though, at least he is actually playable right now.

Thryale2 votes

I was refering to his major trough in his win-rate right after the "compensation" he got.

Remlap12231 votes

That was because they never should have shipped him without the dash interrupt on his E, and without compensating for the cast time. That was an extremely stupid move on Riot's part, and why Veigar was so bad, and I refused to play him until the changes. Now I'd say Veigar is the mid laner I play the most (although I don't play mid often).

Thryale1 votes

eh, I wouldn't say he's "terribad" anymore, but he's not the veigar I love to play anymore. I personally really hate his q being a skill shot. Not only does it completely screw my 9% spell vamp strategy, but it also makes it much more difficult to farm q stacks safely early game as it causes him to push the lane when he cannot handle being that far out. (or just flat out miss farm due to creeps being jerks) I also dislike how extremely unreliable veigar is now. That was one of the primary reasons I played him was because of his reliability. He didn't do much, but what he did do, he did well and I could count on him to do it every time. Now, there is little reason for me to play veigar. :(

EnvyDragon19 votes

He's been out for three days. That's not even enough time to get a good statistical average.

Nilok8 votes

Did you read the post? I think not since I already said I would give it a week and was laughing at how low and fast the numbers fell since he was called "Ryze".

Though it is also funny that no one seems to know in plat+ ranked knows how to play his new kit even though there isn't any really crazy mechanics added.

Knight SoIaire 5 votes

i kinda had to upvote this this isnt a rework, 90% of the change was making his q a skillshot, besides that the rest is almouist the same in fuunctionality ... well there is the passive, but a seasoned ryze player should just go into a game and play like nothing happened

Rinky Dinky5 votes

LOL

No.

Look at his old skills and how they functioned.

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

q- nuke w- snare e-a ball that bounces to enemies and ryze ult-ms and spellwamp steroid also makes him hit aoe

and those things got left intact, they added that passive to kinda tweak his gameplay but they kept him functioning as he did

Anidan1 votes

We gonna ignore the nerfed mana ratios, buffed AP ratios, and 10-30% CDR on ult, as well as his passive which generally changes how he should play based on his stacks?

Quite a lot changed, even if it is more nuanced. His skills still function similarly, but thanks to that passive change of his they should be used quite differently now. Not only that, his general build changed as well. He changed a LOT. Even a long-time Ryze player would need a good bit of time to adjust to his new state.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

We gonna ignore the nerfed mana ratios, buffed AP ratios, and 10-30% CDR on ult, as well as his passive which generally changes how he should play based on his stacks?

and what did they change

you mean like it takes more skill to hit people with his snare because it has lower mana ratio ? we speak gameplay, this is preety much the same, he is still a close range spamming mage

It Hertz When IP2 votes

What if you swapped a car's steering wheel and left front wheel? I mean they're both wheels, and all the major parts are still there, so it should work pretty much the same, right?

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

its more like changing left steering whel with right steering whel , does the same thing in the end

It Hertz When IP1 votes

...your car has two steering wheels?

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

5 but the rest is in the middle so i cant change sides

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

look at his new skills and compare them to his old.

in the past, you hit a rotation and popped the ult to reset your other abilities. now, you hit a rotation to get your passive to pop (which will reset your abiltiies), then ult, then use your reseted abilities. its almost the same exact playstyle, you just get the effects from other places. and you only have the passive window to pull out amazing damage, whether it be AoE or single target.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

He really functions more like a burst mage now

EnvyDragon8 votes

...Wait, so the point of your post was to make a pun off the name "Ryze"?

Gonna leave my downvote, I think.

Nilok5 votes

To be honestly, I have lost more than a bit of confidence with the Balance Team after Bard, Tristana, and now Ryze, and humor is the best way I have to deal with it.

If I can have a laugh and it turns out alright, that's great. Otherwise it simply gets more serious.

ShadyWolfe6 votes

New Ryze and Tristana are a lot more fun now but Tristana definitely needs some buffs while Ryze is too early to tell.

MalzaharAnyLane15 votes

Why does the balance team have to re-learn the same frickin lessons every two years?

Point and click CC does have it's place in the game.

It's going to be hilarious when they rework Fiora, get it epically wrong, and have to remove the silence on Malzahar's Q but forget to double the scaling. Removing silences from LeBlanc and Talon have made them less healthy to play, not more, and Kassadin was gutted twice. Veigar was gutted out of the blue and left dumpstered for a month.

They still won't nerf Lee Sin or Riven or Nidalee properly because they want everyone to be Lee Sin or Riven or Nidalee.

To say nothing of them putting items in the game without considering that there are players in League constantly that know what a champion is most effective with and then go 'Nope, F that, because Riot keeps releasing low impact support item actives, I'm just going to build something stupid and lol when I feed', the kind of drunk players that have the 'Anything is a dildo if you're brave enough' mentality.

It's seriously like the balance and design teams work in separate cubicles and can't even use a god damned Outlook invite or beers after work to discuss how not to break the game.

Nilok5 votes

You forgot Tristana and how any buff they give her is just adding cooldown interactions to her Q and E without addressing any of the real problems. It's okay, Riot wants you to forget Tristana.

ShadyWolfe11 votes

Nidalee may be a little annoying but Riven and LeeSin are not very strong this meta but are in a healthy spot and why are you talking about Rito removing targetable cc's in a Ryze thread? Ryze still has his point and click CC.

Biffolo2 votes

{quoted}

Why does the balance team have to re-learn the same frickin lessons every two years?

Point and click CC does have it's place in the game.

It's going to be hilarious when they rework Fiora, get it epically wrong, and have to remove the silence on Malzahar's Q but forget to double the scaling. Removing silences from LeBlanc and Talon have made them less healthy to play, not more, and Kassadin was gutted twice. Veigar was gutted out of the blue and left dumpstered for a month.

They still won't nerf Lee Sin or Riven or Nidalee properly because they want everyone to be Lee Sin or Riven or Nidalee.

To say nothing of them putting items in the game without considering that there are players in League constantly that know what a champion is most effective with and then go 'Nope, F that, because Riot keeps releasing low impact support item actives, I'm just going to build something stupid and lol when I feed', the kind of drunk players that have the 'Anything is a dildo if you're brave enough' mentality.

It's seriously like the balance and design teams work in separate cubicles and can't even use a god damned Outlook invite or beers after work to discuss how not to break the game.

Because lee sin needs a nerf?

Rinky Dinky9 votes

They added a skillshot on a champion who had no skillshots.

Why is it surprising to you that old mains of former mash forehead on keyboard champion are struggling?

Kass still has a horrid winrate after his ult changes, and he is once again a contested pick in lcs.

The ryze pun is funny and all, but with these boards, it will just create a shitstorm

KilljoyX7 votes

{quoted}

They added a skillshot on a champion who had no skillshots.

Why is it surprising to you that old mains of former mash forehead on keyboard champion are struggling?

Kass still has a horrid winrate after his ult changes, and he is once again a contested pick in lcs.

The ryze pun is funny and all, but with these boards, it will just create a shitstorm

They reduced the damage out put from his combo by a significant amount if you land everything. The shield is insignificant until late game and the other nerfs (really why did they nerf W root duration) are just absurd. He's literally been Eved.

Knight SoIaire 6 votes

there is one problem with the ballance of new things they arent ballanced, and i mean that they dont go through the process of checking whether they are as strong as they should be

basicaly all the reference that the ballance team gets is "whether it feels right" when they play it in their office and this cant work

and once stuff hits pbe, well they cant ballance anything by looking at pbe, nobody realy plays there to win, so there is no legitimate feedback aout allance

thats why new champions are always a crap ballance wise, while unpopular champions dont get any ballance changes at all

the only thing that ballance team can actualy fix is when a popular champion is op or up, besides that they have nothing that would allow them to ballance the game

hence riot should create some sort of enviroment that is strictly tied to testing ballance

Nilok2 votes

A much larger testing pool would help a lot and maybe funnel some rewards back to the tester's main live account for helping to encourage participation. Small things like an IP boost or something like the Tribunal rewards.

MrBuffington3 votes

even though there isn't any really crazy mechanics added.

I honestly think people are underestimating how difficult management of his passive is, and how his game really pivots around that. You go from having 3 okay damage spells to as-many-as-you-can-cast-in-4/5/6-seconds number of spells, so long as you're comboing correctly. With old Ryze you had a few combos to memorize that you could use in pretty much any situation; because of how new Ryze's passive works, you have to adjust your combos on the fly depending on how many stacks of your passive you have and the timing of your attacks to really maximize his kit. Ryze's skill floor and skill ceiling have increased dramatically, the skillshot is really no big deal compared to his passive management.

EDIT: Additionally, there's the 0.25 second restriction on his passive mechanic; you actually have to slow down your combo in order to utilize the cooldown reduction. It's honestly kind of awkward; I can see why they have it in place (he would be absolutely ridiculous without it), but I feel like there's a better way, like shorten the time you have to actually use the combo but remove the restriction on his cooldowns so he can fully reset them, that way he feels more like the machine-gun Ryze and less like a semi-automatic Ryze.

Tsohgder3 votes

I already said this somewhere else, but IMO the trigger spell of his passive should also reduce the cooldown of every other spell. Increase the stacks or something if you want, I don't care.

Feels so underwhelming when you have 4 stacks and only your Q is off CD, and you know you can't use it because it would waste your passive.

For Carthage2 votes

Elise For a moment... I'm not the worst... dreams do come true, if even only for a moment.

Only Play Darius1 votes

Wasn't she god tier at one point?

For Carthage2 votes

Do you think she doesn't dream of once again being like that? She didn't dream of it before because she had always been.

It's a riches to rags to riches story. You wouldn't understand.

Beddlam2 votes

I've played Ryze a lot since the rework, and I think it's just the frequent move of releasing a champ under-tuned because it is more healthy to have a champ too weak than too strong and they will nudge him up little by little. I like the rework, but it definitely needs some changes. To my mind the big change is not his Q. This is a change, and it hurts the reliability of his damage, but that was kind of the point. The big changes are his passive and the nerfs to mana scaling. Utilizing that window of power on a champ with zero mobility is tricky against players who know what they are doing. The mana scaling nerfs and 30% CDR on his ulti make his itemization after RoA and Archangel's less clear too. It will be interesting to see if his win rate goes up after his pick rate goes back down

Tengrichan2 votes

Here is my view on him after playing him several times and trying out new builds:

Most annoying thing that's lost me several kills and generally doesn't feel right is the cast times on his abilities.It's near impossible to chase somebody who has almost equal or greater movement speed.Casting E causes Ryze to stop for a moment while the enemy can get away.It's horrible.The same goes for casting Q and trying to "snipe". I understand cast times are necessary but there is a point where it hampers smooth gameplay which happens in this case in my opinion.

  • The range on Overload(Q) for a "mage" or i don't know what should i call Ryze now is simply not enough.It's not sufficient to for poking or farming from safe distance.950-1000 range would be more ideal for this spell.

  • Rune Prison(W) is alright.

  • As i mentioned the range on Spell Flux(E) should be looked at for a smoother gameplay or the cast time needs to be reduced. Another problem i noticed is Ryze's farming ability compared to used mana and his efficiency at.Let's just say it's rather bad compared to other mids. The problem comes from the inability to deal enough AoE damage with a single spell flux without active ulti.

  • Desperate Power(R) is alright.

All in all there are annoying cast times on his abilities that either need to be reduced or range on spells should be increased.His ability to farm is not efficient at all without using ultimate.However you may say that i should have no problem with this as the ulti cooldown can be reduced via the passive however early-mid game the mana usage is so high that trying to reduce the cooldown on the ulti will deplete mana too fast. So currently there is not much to do against mids who can push wave harder than Ryze.You simply can't interrupt their attempt to roam at all.If you try to push back though you will be out of mana EVERY time resulting in a lost lane because what can you do without mana on Ryze?

Also his itemization sucks.Frozen Heart even with 10% wasted CDR is still the best choice for a defensive item.Tear and RoA is mandatory which leaves us with 3 more big items.Count in FH as another mandatory item and with that we are down to 2 choices.

Tengrichan1 votes

EDIT:His cast times are fucking awful.And the range on E doesn't help either.I am sorry Riot but currently he isn't good.

Beddlam2 votes

Also, since Ryze now only gets 3-6 second windows of power, cc is devastating. If you get stunned or silenced during your passive, you are screwed. Because of this, I've found that the most reliable way to deal damage in lane is R>W>E, not worrying about your passive. This of course, only works if your opponent is standing in the middle of their wave.

Right now I think he suffers from an identity crisis: He is less effective as a tanky AP bruiser because his ratios have been nerfed and CDR is a wasted stat on him, he doesn't make a great assassin because he doesn't have the burst or the utility to deliver his damage, he doesn't work as a sustained AP carry because his short range puts him in too much danger and his damage output isn't reliable. At this point, I'm just not sure what he is good at.

Venowolf1 votes

item 3285 item 3027 item 3040 item 3020 item 3001 item 3025

With masteries 9 0 21

Try that and you can have a good "performance".

Champion Skin2 votes

Why Iceborn Gauntlet over Zhonyas? The CDR is useless if you go 9/0/21 So is the mana/slow better then the AP+Activate of Zhonyas?

Venowolf2 votes

The passive of IBG is very spammable, and I rush 3rd item, so before lvl 16 is a gold efficient, Zhonyas is a good item too, but at the moment I have very good performance with IBG, to be honest not feel very useful the Zhonyas but maybe I need more games.

IBG = + 40shield with the passive too.

NorthernDruid1 votes

Zhonya's only has 60 AP on IBG. 60 AP vs 500 mana (slightly more mana if you have the mana increase masteries from utility) is roughly twice the offensive scaling on your abilities. but there's that 8% mana shield that you pop two times during an extended fight.

IBG also brings 10 extra armor, and that slow for kiting/sticking.

IBG is 400 gold cheaper.

So it's a better defensive item (before stasis active), and overall the AoE sheen procc is quite useful.

Lil Soybean1 votes

I'm just going to say one thing.

He was taken toplane for his targeted bullying and tankiness, as well as short range.

Both of those first two factors were removed or weakened with this update, whereas his Q range increased.

Maybe he's at such a low winrate because

  1. He's still being learned, and
  2. Because people are still assuming he's a toplaner and failing with him there, instead of taking him midlane like most mages?
Nilok3 votes

Very possible, I've been experimenting on Ryze and seems to be able to play a burst caster much more, but with the number of hits to his mana ratios which means he needs to build more AP closer to a standard mage. The problem with this is he execpt for his Q, most of his moves are a bit too short to be quite effective unless someone jumps on you, so you build tank. Which leads into the last problem that most good tank items have cooldown reduction that Ryze doesn't want anymore since his can get 40% cooldown reduction with just masteries and/or runes.

His kit is indeed powerful, but it seems to be at odds with itself, which can cause problems.

I'll play some more games and see what I can get out of it.

Lil Soybean1 votes

{quoted}

Very possible, I've been experimenting on Ryze and seems to be able to play a burst caster much more, but with the number of hits to his mana ratios which means he needs to build more AP closer to a standard mage. The problem with this is he execpt for his Q, most of his moves are a bit too short to be quite effective unless someone jumps on you, so you build tank. Which leads into the last problem that most good tank items have cooldown reduction that Ryze doesn't want anymore since his can get 40% cooldown reduction with just masteries and/or runes.

His kit is indeed powerful, but it seems to be at odds with itself, which can cause problems.

I'll play some more games and see what I can get out of it.

Very good points, I was actually specifically wondering, "why did they make his ultimate scale up to 30% CDR...?" 20% would make more sense, with something like Frozen heart you'd hit 40 (Probably with 5% wasted due to Masteries) But with the 30% CDR on his ulti, and 5% from masteries, you could throw in 5% flat in Glyphs and not even need to buy a single CDR item...which leaves me wondering, what in the world is he supposed to build?

Should he go RoA/Archangels, do you think...? But then, what after? Uh...I would say maybe Righteous Glory, for those fast engages + the tankiness, but it also builds out of Catalyst, and stacking 3 mana items might be a bit much, haha...but then again, maybe not? Maybe it's good...

Perhaps this is a good thing, actually. Maybe he can build something Like Abyssal Scepter now, since he doesn't need to build any CDR items if you have the right setup. Another interesting thought is Rylai's. The slow is a little redundant with his target root, but it'd let you chase decently with your targeted E (the splash), or, for example, slow someone from afar with your Q to get close enough to Prison them. I only suggest it because it gives AP and HP which both seem good on him now, and I'm trying to think of good non-CDR items for him to build.

Actually, as silly as it is, maybe Luden's is good on him now? It'd probably look pretty cool with the double-splashing effect on his E, at least. :P And don't forget that it gives you some movement speed.

I don't play Ryze, and I haven't tried him at all since the Rework, so my ideas might all be terrible. But I'm theorycrafting! What do you think?

Nilok1 votes

Rylai's is a good suggestion that I don't see very often on the builds I've seen. RoA and Archangel's are still very core to him since he NEEDS mana for both parts of his passive and can eat his entire mana pool in seconds if you are not careful. His ability to spam may be even more powerful now.

Luden's Echo is a good choice since he can charge it very fast. The rest if fairly standard for AP carries with Rabadon's, Void Staff, Zhonya's, Banshee's, and Abyssal depending.

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