@Riot If you find the Malz rework forces him to be put on ice...

Nilok·5/10/2016, 11:17:42 AM·60 votes·4,262 views

Could you instead just revert his kit to 6.8 so he isn't left in the trash for years like Urgot?

Edit - 07/27: It may be time for some drastic changes to Malzahar to solve how unhealthy he has become.

The rework for Malzahar has unfortunately missed the mark of its stated goal of making Malzahar healthier. The main problem with the rework has been his passive and how much of his power budget it takes up. The fact the his passive is a more powerful Banishes Veil has only made Malzahar more unhealthy. This combined with his new Voidlings that are either very strong or very weak depending has not helped matters either.

In addition to my recommendation to revert the changes on Malzahar to his 6.8 kit that has been much easier to balance and enjoyable to play, if you truly feel the need to keep some form of Malzahar's current passive, attach it explicitly to his ult. This removes the annoyance and frustration of trying to fight Malzahar early game when he can laugh off a hit or gank simply because of an overpowered passive, while still protecting him from a single CC when he does ult.

Best of luck getting Malzahar back to a healthy state -Nilok

72 Comments

The Yetii Rider5/10/2016, 2:20:52 PM20 votes

Sigh...

This comes up every time there is a rework. The answer is no.

Riot got Malz new ability icons, a new animation for his passive, and new coding for his Voidlings.

That is a lot of time energy and money spent on art and coding that will not simply be reverted. Performing this rework cost resources. They need to make it better, not give up on it entirely.

Onkel Malte5/10/2016, 6:54:45 PM9 votes

I 'd actually love to see Malz reverted and put on pbe for extensive testing.

They can't gather information about his playstyle and performance on a 90% banrate anyways.

But I think we've gotta live with extensive nerfs and then buffs following until he's viable again.

AshranReaver5/10/2016, 12:38:47 PM9 votes

Yes please. The rework killed so much of what Malz was.

NoSkillShreking5/11/2016, 1:47:21 AM7 votes

Revert?

http://reactiongifs.me/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/mr_chang_senor_chang_laugh_spits_milk.gif

Keep dreaming, never before has there been a revert in this game, only more "Reworks."

He'll probably just end up like Ryze, he's on his 4th right?

ForeverLaxx5/10/2016, 6:53:28 PM7 votes

Riot doesn't do full reverts once something hits the Live servers. Hell, they almost don't even do partial reverts to single abilities once it hits the Live servers. If they can't get the balance right on the new design, then the new design is going to be kicked in the shins repeatedly until it can't stand up to anything that isn't the dumbest of enemies.

Look back at various other champions for reference.

Karma Deified5/10/2016, 5:43:31 PM6 votes

Passive - Summon Voidling

On every fourth ability use Malzahar Malzahar summons a Voidling that remains on the field until it is killed or 21 seconds have passed.

When multiple Voidlings are active, they all gain 50% bonus attack speed.


Q - Call of the Void

Malzahar summons two orbs at the target location perpendicular to which way he is facing after a 0.5 second delay, dealing magic damage to all enemies caught between the orbs and silencing them.

Magic Damage 80 / 135 / 190 / 245 / 300 **(+ 80% AP) **

Silence Duration 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 seconds.


W - Null Zone

_Malzahar creates a zone of negative energy for **5 **seconds, dealing magic damage every second to all enemies standing on it, capped at 120 against minions and monsters. _

Magic Damage 5 / 6 / 7 / 8 / 9%** (+ 1.5% per 100 AP)**


E - Malefic Visions

Malzahar infects the target enemy's mind, dealing them magic damage every half second over 4 seconds. If the target is affected by Malzahar's other abilities, the duration of Malefic Visions will refresh.

If the target dies during this time, they pass Malefic Visions onto the closest enemy, refreshing the duration and restoring 2% of Malzahar's maximum mana.

Magic Damage 80 / 115 / 150 / 185 / 220 **(+ 70% AP) **


R - Nether Grasp

Malzahar knocks down the target enemy champion and channels for up to 2.5 seconds, suppressing them and amplifying the effects of Null Zone and Malefic Visions.

Bonus - Null Zone _Null Zone expands over the duration of Nether Grasp and refreshes it's duration at the end of the channel. _

Bonus - Malefic Visions _Malefic Visions spreads from the target of Nether Grasp to nearby enemies. _


Context/Goals

Malzahar was best used for his control style with emphasis on zoning and tank busting.


Summon Voidling/Void Swarm

Malzahar is not a summoner at his core. While the niche jungle playstyle uses the Voidlings, it is in no way necessary to amplify an already adequate playstyle to such an extent.

I imagine there was some motivation in removal of randomness regarding making Voidling creation an active. But, Voidling summoning was already a calculated effort and does not need any change.

A removal of the Voidlings' delayed power and a buff for bringing out more than one Voidling is a decent idea and can be kept.


Call of the Void

Required no changes damage-wise. It's not the easiest skillshot to land and it's damage should be a heavy deterrent to chasing Malzahar.

With that considered, the silence reduction is a welcomed change and can even be further reduced with little issue.


Null Zone

A huge part in establishing a zone as Malzahar. The proper use of Null Zone separates the "I'm just an ult" Malzahar players from those who see the real potential of the champion.

It is also a big part in his kiting pattern. With these two things in mind, having it tied to his self CC as well as having the positioning tied to the location of an enemy is almost as counter intuitive as the fixed range of Cassiopeia's anti-dash.

Lastly, the "famous" Null Zone ult combo has a lot of power in it's threat. The threat of a Malzahar ult on Null Zone adds to the zoning provided by placing it well.

Making the combo automatic removes a large amount of gameplay from Malzahar.


Malefic Visions

The change to allow Visions to be extended was a good one. Reducing it's damage with that in mind is fine.

And with Malzahar's proper W ability, his control playstyle is even further supported while retaining his balanced state.


Nether Grasp

An ability that could have been removed, but was perhaps iconic or something. That aside, the changes to Nether Grasp were in somewhat of a good direction, though barely. Very barely.

Nether Grasp as an ability was either frustrating for Malzahar or for his enemy. As it stood, it was either used by pick up Malzahars to be an assassin/burst mage or reluctantly used to secure a prime target, turn around when kiting or as a last resort lockdown.

The ability had 2 players unable to play the game for 2.5 seconds with nothing of note except damage.

Adding the Null Zone to ult instead of magic damage is again, barely sensible, with the key issues being the removal of Null Zone as an ability and still no real reason to use it that fits into Malzahar's playstyle.

The above changes make it so that Malzahar can use Nether Grasp to cash in on the control he had on the fight by either punishing clumped enemies, letting his team deal with the front line uninterrupted, forcing disengage, etc.

What Malzahar wants to do in a fight is

  • Keep his assailants away from him.
  • Separate the enemy team/break down their formation.
  • Shred those pesky tanks.
  • Deal sustained multi-target damage.

And these are all well supported with the changes.


With all the above, the reason to pick Malzahar over other mages is well emphasized, rather than changing the champion all together like the update did.

Capt Milkshakes5/10/2016, 6:25:12 PM5 votes

Honestly, the new Malzahar is great. I love it. I loved the old Malzahar. Do I hate that the old Malz is gone? Not really. The new Malz is similar enough that I don't want the old one back. On that note, he's disgustingly over powered. His passive is broken, and just ridiculous. Unfortunately that means he's a priority pick/ban. I never get to play Malzahar anymore. I'm either counterpicked in mid lane by the enemy jungler, or my team doesn't care if I want to play him, they don't want to run the risk of the enemy picking him. Its like Zed, but worse (in my opinion at least).

So TL;DR Malz is great, but he is too great. I'll take nerfs or a revert Rito.

iTaLenTZ5/11/2016, 4:21:14 AM4 votes

lol @ Riot and admitting failure and reverting bad changes. I am realistic. I gave up on Malz, my favourite champ and almost 500K points, for the next 1 year at least he will be unplayable.

LatetotheRace5/11/2016, 6:52:51 PM3 votes

F@#%@#% PLEASE! This BS has to stop, "Oh well we kind of dropped the ball on these reworks" We'll fix them later. Cassiopeia Malzahar Mordekaiser NO! We want the at least semi-playable versions of these guys back, we don't want placeholders that make our champion pool look larger than it is.

FatesDefiler5/12/2016, 8:01:32 AM2 votes

these reworks have killed aram for me. rolling a champ i used to wreck on that i can't play anymore is quite simply, the worst feeling this game provides. that says a lot with the amount of trolling in it. used-to-be-played champs in my graveyard: Soraka Zilean Swain Sona Ryze Nidalee Malzahar Fiora Gangplank Cassiopeia Annie

i would absolutely refund these champs even without any compensation if i could, and think this recent rework was one of the most misguided things i've seen riot do. i can't take it anymore. i jungled malz before this rework and imo this rework which put 50% of his power budget on some buggy, glitchy minions absolutely killed what made the old malz good.

Iris By GooDolls5/10/2016, 8:48:54 PM2 votes

ive managed to play malz mid 2 times so far and it hasent been great, while we got early free drags becuz of his new w, late game my damage was nothing compared to before. we were vs mao+malp combo of tanks, something in the past I could've shredded easily, not with the new kit, the w dmg should be % hp dmg over flat damage.

SociopathFriend5/11/2016, 12:50:57 PM1 votes

I get people saying Malz is OP and so on but... all of these "They killed old Malzahar" comments are just... really? His Q and E are exactly the same- his ultimate is pretty much exactly the same- literally the only differences are the W and Passive. And Malzahar's playstyle is still exactly the same- land the combo and murderstomp your enemy- now with a passive to make this possible without flash. Malzahar is barely different- they did not "kill" old Malzahar.

SpecterVonBaren5/10/2016, 11:32:28 PM1 votes

No. If my scorpion didn't get a revert despite having less drastic changes then why should Malz?

They've never reverted a rework before so they aren't going to do it now, instead of saying "change it back" why not come up with an idea to make his current kit work? Maybe have his new passive only give him CC immunity but if he lands spells on enemies it will stack up damage reduction? Maybe have it so only three voidlings can attack the same target? Ideas ideas.