Can we Rework Sona into something better?

only zhule··6 votes·2,083 views

TL:DR at bottom

Sona in her current state is "weird" in so many different ways. If you look at her numbers you have an auto target ability that 80-320 magic damage with 120% AP ratio, can give her allies 50-150 bonus magic damage (with 150% AP ratio), you have a heal for 60-220 health with a 50% AP ratio, a shield that can block 125 damage at rank one and up 625 damage at rank 5 on top of maxing out at 150% AP ratio, you have a movement ability that can give a total of 50-70% movement speed to your allies for 3 seconds PLUS 20% AP ratio. To top it all off her ultimate gives her a flat 10/25/40% CDR to her basic spells. On paper this champion would be broken beyond belief.

But once you start breaking down how those numbers work it becomes a whole lot less impressive. That 80-320 magic damage spell with 120% AP ratio, well that can ONLY hit 2 targets and they both will be taking half the damage. So you are only doing 40-160 damage per cast. The bonus magic damage is only 10-30 per ally tagged with a 30% ratio for each. This means that trying to solo lane with Sona is insanely hard since you lack wave clear and your damage output is halved what it would be in a duo lane. Something else to keep in mind is that your single offensive spell is on a 8 second base cooldown. So not only are you doing unimpressive damage but you are also doing HORRIBLE DPS. Her heal is also split between two units meaning that you only heal for 30-110 heal with a 25% ratio for each. This means that you have a negative cost to healing ratio at rank 1, and besides that you won't be saving your ally with a clutch heal during a fight. Her shield can effect herself and all her allies but that means that at rank one it's only preventing 25 damage per ally and has a 30% AP ratio. This ability is on a 10 second cooldown, meaning that you often will get to use it once per fight in the early game. And i think most people will agree that negating 55 damage isn't enough to keep an ally alive if they are being chased. So now we get to her movement speed ability. +50-70% MS (with 20% AP ratio) for 3 seconds sounds AMAZING, but 10-14% with 4% scaling sounds a whole lot less impressive. Finally we get to her ultimate, this is the first instance of Sona having a stun and i will admit it is a stun capable of possibly hitting all 5 enemies, that said it will usually only hit 1-2. Now the passive on this ultimate is kind of weird, mostly in the fact that it was added because Riot admitted that Sona simply didn't do enough in the late game with the traditional 40-45% CDR. Your numbers were just to low and your cooldowns too high to function once everyone was running around with max abilities and a full item kit.

Another thing to factor in when talking about how good or bad Sona is, is what items she "breaks" and how. It's not uncommon for some champions to be abnormally good with certain items. Someone like Ezreal breaks several on-hit items simply because his primary damage source, a long range poke, will trigger their effect letting him output very high damage from relative safety. Sona is no exception to this certain support items are down right "broken" when you use Sona. Take for example any of the items that give bonus heal/shield amount. Where most champions can only get a 1-2 bonuses from the item, Sona's ability can get up to 7 instances of the bonus. We can also look at specific things like Sona's interaction with item 3504 where for a support like Soraka this item would give an 8% bonus to her heal and give a single unit 10-30% bonus AS and 5-20 magic damage on their autos for 6 seconds, on Sona this item can give a WHOOPING 56% bonus to her heal/shields and up to 50-150% bonus AS and 25-100 magic damage on auto attacks. item 3174 is another example of an item that pairs abnormally well with Sona. Your offensive spell auto targets meaning that you can reliably charge the hell out of this item, on top of that since you can shield multiple allies with a single ability it is very possible to trigger a heal on multiple allies with a single cast of your W.

My suggestion to dealing this these issues is to rework Sona. I'm thinking something like a focus on single ally buffs instead of current team wide version. You increase the amount the buff does, lets say double it. So her bonus damage is now 20-60 magic damage (with 60% AP ratio) on next auto, your shield is blocking 50-250 damage with a 60% ratio. BUT these abilities only effect Sona and one other ally. This change removes Sona's "best case" numbers, which frankly are insanely high, and normalizes her with slightly higher base numbers. It also greatly reduces how much power she gets from a heal/shield bonus item, which means more power budget can be spent on aspects of her kit. Too top this all off i also think that Sona would greatly benefit from having a 25% reduction to her base cooldowns. This change would help Sona be able to do more during the laning phase, be it help keep any ally alive, soften up and enemy so your lane partner can get a kill despite your lack of engage tools, or get a kill against an enemy that is near death.

TL:DR: Sona would greatly benefit from a rework that pushes her more towards single target buffing instead of team wide buffs. I suggest doubling the base numbers on her buffs but limiting them to a single ally buffed. Reducing the base cooldowns of her abilities by 25%, but removing her ultimate passive. It opens up a lot of power budget by removing the "best case scenario" limiter she currently has to deal with.

P.S. I think it could also be interesting to see Sona with longer base cooldowns but her aura's last a little longer and give bonuses so long as allies remain within. A little bit of her old version and a little bit of her current version.

17 Comments

Daedric Etwahl5 votes

Sona's whole identity though is being able to buff her entire team equally, compared to every other enchanter's single target spells.

While I'm not opposed to a rework as long as it's done well, I am opposed to a rework that turns her into "throw all my buffs on only my carry, and call it a day" like other Enchanters have.

I understand this means that Sona's individual spells are weaker, but I'm perfectly tly fine with this. I'd be fine if they changed her from "spam weak auras" to "well-timed strong auras"

Another possibility would be to give Sona herself a slightly stronger version of whatever buff she's giving, allowing her to make slightly better use of her own spells while not breaking them by multiplying it by 5 champions later on. Her E already kind of does this with her personal time extension on it

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zojJt2Np,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-08-23T03:54:33.093+0000)

Sona's whole identity though is being able to buff her entire team equally, compared to every other enchanter's single target spells.

While I'm not opposed to a rework as long as it's done well, I am opposed to a rework that turns her into "throw all my buffs on only my carry, and call it a day" like other Enchanters have.

I understand this means that Sona's individual spells are weaker, but I'm perfectly tly fine with this. I'd be fine if they changed her from "spam weak auras" to "well-timed strong auras"

Another possibility would be to give Sona herself a slightly stronger version of whatever buff she's giving, allowing her to make slightly better use of her own spells while not breaking them by multiplying it by 5 champions later on. Her E already kind of does this with her personal time extension on it

It's in the P.S. but i honestly wouldn't mind Sona's buffs being switched from single use and spam-able to a short-ish term prolonged buff while in the area. Imagine her Q buff but allies can use it for five or so seconds straight. It means that she is better for trading and less focused on her current hit and run tactic.

A part of me does like the team buff thing, that said i don't like how much of her power budget is wasted by the limitations you have to deal with given her "base case" situations. I wish there was a better middle ground between Shit tier as a solo lane, very bad as a duo, all the way up to damn near broken if you get the whole team.

Manslayer2 votes

I want old Sona back, they should rework her into old Sona. Give everyone 20 ad 20 armor 20 mr and 20 ms forever. I actually really liked that design back then. Sure it was "boring" but you felt like a bard where you were enhancing all your allies to fight better. That and the auras were very large so you didn't have to be massaging everyones backs to actually give them said buffs.

BurakkuRozu92 votes

From what I read, it seems like you are focusing a lot on solo lane sona, even though, as everyone else mentioned, she's all about buffing her team. She should transition from duo lane to team fighting. Not every support is meant to be able to solo lane.

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

From what I read, it seems like you are focusing a lot on solo lane sona, even though, as everyone else mentioned, she's all about buffing her team. She should transition from duo lane to team fighting. Not every support is meant to be able to solo lane.

I would very much like if Sona could work as a solo lane champion. It probably wouldn't even be that hard just make her Q do AoE damage in something like a 100-200 range. Big enough to hit more then one minion if they are closely packed, small enough that you aren't hitting the entire wave.

That aside the point was that she is a really shitty laning partner. She lacks the tools to set up kills or really pressure the lane. I think it would be nice if she was better at that and wouldn't mind if that came at the expense of her being a late game spam happy team buffing monster.

BurakkuRozu91 votes

She can have some lane pressure just with poke, not really setting up kills as she isn't a play making support. That would overload her kit.

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

She can have some lane pressure just with poke, not really setting up kills as she isn't a play making support. That would overload her kit.

You might be right a hard CC might overload the kit. That said there are other ways to set up kills. She could simply have better damage output or at least better DPS (same damage output per spell but lower cooldown so she can do it more often). This would allow her to set up kills for her allies that don't require hard CC.

Sure a full rotation from Sona is going to do some pretty decent damage (for the first few levels), but lets be honest here. That full rotation comes out maybe once every 30 seconds, if not longer. Your Q might be auto target and have a further range then the enemy ADC's auto attack, but to really pressure the enemy you are going to have to get within their auto attack / engage range. And you are going to have to be there for quite some time in order to apply enough pressure (damage) to meaningfully effect their choices.

BurakkuRozu91 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zojJt2Np,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-23T04:43:23.805+0000)

You might be right a hard CC might overload the kit. That said there are other ways to set up kills. She could simply have better damage output or at least better DPS (same damage output per spell but lower cooldown so she can do it more often). This would allow her to set up kills for her allies that don't require hard CC.

Sure a full rotation from Sona is going to do some pretty decent damage (for the first few levels), but lets be honest here. That full rotation comes out maybe once every 30 seconds, if not longer. Your Q might be auto target and have a further range then the enemy ADC's auto attack, but to really pressure the enemy you are going to have to get within their auto attack / engage range. And you are going to have to be there for quite some time in order to apply enough pressure (damage) to meaningfully effect their choices.

So why exactly should an enchanter have to ability to fully pressure an enemy?

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

So why exactly should an enchanter have to ability to fully pressure an enemy?

Nami

The argument is that it would be nice if an enchanter, in this case specifically Sona, had a way to impact the lane phase. People love to say that Q + AA is going to pressure your opponent, but that's a load of bullshit past level like 2 or 3. The argument isn't that Sona needs to be chunking the enemy for 60% of their health every time she hits. It would just be lovely if she did enough damage that the enemy ADC alone didn't heal 70%+ of the damage i did in between rotations. It would be heavenly if i played aggressively but smart and didn't have to do like a dozen or more rotations before the enemy had to even worry. But most of all it would just be a god send if Sona being part of a fight mattered when your ally is being run down. Because let me tell you, once you've blown your heal and chunked the enemy for something like 25-30% of their health, nothing says "fun" like knowing you are WORTHLESS for the next 6.5-7 seconds, and even then you likely lack the means to turn the battle or finish off a VERY weakened enemy.

Daedric Etwahl1 votes

I mean, my ability to impact the lane depends on who the others in lane are.

For example, a Vayne Rakan lane gets chunked out super hard by a competent Sona. As long as she can dodge Rakan Ws, not really anything they can do to her until level 6, and by then, Sona's side should have a leg up or two on them.

Other lanes are gonna be harder, namely tank engage supports, just by virtue of being bulkier and more dangerous to approach and auto attack

only zhule2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zojJt2Np,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-08-23T09:18:15.836+0000)

I mean, my ability to impact the lane depends on who the others in lane are.

For example, a Vayne Rakan lane gets chunked out super hard by a competent Sona. As long as she can dodge Rakan Ws, not really anything they can do to her until level 6, and by then, Sona's side should have a leg up or two on them.

Other lanes are gonna be harder, namely tank engage supports, just by virtue of being bulkier and more dangerous to approach and auto attack

my issue is usually with mage "supports" like Brand or Zyra . Both in the level of damage they can output with the same support items, and with how their kits seem to take a whole lot less mana to function then Sona's does.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Where the heck are you getting your numbers from? Sona doesn't have a shield for 625 damage +150% AP, she doesn't give allies 50-70% +20% AP movement speed, and she definitely does not deal 120% AP damage with her Q.

That's like saying that any AoE attack deals infinite damage because it can hit any number of targets, or that if you set the oven for 40000 degrees for a 36 seconds it's the same as cooking at 400 for an hour.

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rathar Dashing,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zojJt2Np,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-08-23T04:13:15.166+0000)

Where the heck are you getting your numbers from? Sona doesn't have a shield for 625 damage +150% AP, she doesn't give allies 50-70% +20% AP movement speed, and she definitely does not deal 120% AP damage with her Q.

That's like saying that any AoE attack deals infinite damage because it can hit any number of targets, or that if you set the oven for 40000 degrees for a 36 seconds it's the same as cooking at 400 for an hour.

her shield will block 125 damage at rank 5, it has a 30% AP ration, if you tag all your teammates you can block a total of 625 damage + 150% AP ratio. Her movement speed buff is 10-14%, with a 4% AP ratio, added together its a total of 50-70% movement speed with a 20% AP ratio. The comment is pointing out how insanely high the numbers are when you tag your whole team. But also how unimpressive those numbers are when you look at how much it gives to any single unit.

7thHeaven2 votes

I believe viegar's W deals 1500 + 500% AP as basic spell.

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

I believe viegar's W deals 1500 + 500% AP as basic spell.

i believe a better example might be Soraka or Karthus ultimates. Or other abilities that were "balanced" with the idea that it would be hitting 4 or 5 targets.

Rathar Dashing1 votes

Oh, so it's just a terrible argument. Thanks for clearing that up.

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