Anyone else notice that almost everyone who claims this, has next to no games played as Sona? Gone through like 2 dozen people's match history, and not a one of them has had more then a dozen games with Sona in over a year. You would think that with her "easy, auto targeting burst that does 50% of your opponents health" that she would be seeing all kinds of play.
TNHA Baritone36 votesWhy do people count Lich Bane as part of her kit?
Without Lich Bane, she just doesn't do that damage
CasterGilgamesh3 votesSame reason why people counted Death fires grasp as part of a mages kit? That's the reason riot gave compensation buffs after it was removed. So it says that items can be counted as part of a kit
Pika31017 votesYa, what great "compensation" they did for those champs. They nerfed Veigar's stun, crippled Ahri's damage output, nerfed Syndra's everything. All** IN ADDITION** to removing DFG, so they all got double-nerfed.
Rito needs to learn wtf the word "compensation" means, cause apparently their definition is OVER-NERF.
Chaotic Reks19 votesthey seem to know what it means when it comes to their favorite champs 
Pika31016 votesI see your point 
You win this time.
A Miss Fortune1 votesWith Lich Bane she does a TON of damage though. Her Q/AA combo can burst people down if you do go AP Sona Mid or something and there's not much counterplay to it. If you're not a dominant lane bully you'll just get poked down, and if you're someone squishy like Leblanc you'll get hit hard before you can hit back.
Though It's not like she's freelo because her mana costs are high as Riot's balance team and Sona feels like she has the defensive stats of a caster minion.
TNHA Baritone5 votesShe does most dmg with Staccato plus q plus Lich Bane meaning that combo takes a couple seconds to come up and is VERY mana consuming like you pointed out.
Opponents can choose this time to attack cause she cannot do anyhing to hurt you in the mean tine but I agree with you
1000angrybees12 votesI've played HUNDREDS of games with Sona, I literally have no idea how many I've played that I can't even remotely begin to guess the amount (I have over 200k mastery points with Sona too). Whenever I see someone pull the 'SHE'S SO OPPRESSIVE' or 'SHE CAN HALF HEALTH A SQUISHY' card I'm immediately like
she's a support mage with bad scalings, bad base damage/values, awful defenses and bad defense growths, worst MS tier, average mana pool and growth, heavy spell rotation costs (even just healing itself), and decently long cooldowns without enough CDR that has to buy a 3k gold item to be even remotely effective with damage- who has to get into AA range to deal like 65% of it all- and you're bitching about it? Sweetie. Please.
Ulquiorra9957 votesThose same people are blind to the fact that Sona's damage comes almost fully from 2 items that anyone can build: LB and Ludens. ANY champion with decent amount of AB and those 2 items will chunk you.
BoxOfFedUpFrogs 5 votesShe's just not nearly good enough to be in competitive play compared to other support or burst mage picks. She's too easy to lock down and kill. That said a sona with lichbane who stacks her passive right can time a q auto to completely mess any squishies day up. I've done more than 50% health as burst damage plenty of times, but it's single target damage and it requires getting that second stack off passive before hitting the q combo. People who are mad about sona's damage are probably just mad because it's not skillshot or long cooldown related which is what league has been moving towards.
Pika31028 votesOh I'm sorry. Are we including Lich Bane as part of her own damage now? I was under the impression that gasp it's an item that LITERALLY ANY CHAMPION IN THE GAME CAN BUY and WAS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO CREATE AN ARTIFICIAL FAKE DAMAGE SOURCE FOR CHAMPIONS LACKING IN THAT REGARD. Was I just imagining that this whole time and Lich Bane is actually one of Sona's spells that she starts the game with at level 1?
yay nibbers6 votesWhat's your point? Literally every champion in the game needs items to do damage. Some use different items than normal. Lich Bane synergizes with Sona's kit exceptionally well so it's often built on her. It's a recognized damage-spike item and applies to Sona as much as any other champion. It's just like Ezreal when he gets his own Sheen/Triforce or Shyvana when she sates her Devourer (and has BoRK), or Riven and Hydra.
Pika31014 votesExcept the difference between Lich Bane and say RoA or Deathcap, etc. that you are intentionally ignoring is that Lich Bane CREATES its own damage source that is 100% independent of who the hell you build it on. Sona herself has shit scalings, shit bases and does no damage, but trolls keep insisting the contrary based on the false information of Lich Bane.
Fact of the matter is: Sona does shit damage; Lich Bane does absurd damage. Sheep are blaming Sona for a situation Lich Bane is creating. It's the same as blaming a knife for some random person committing murder with it. YOU are claiming the knife is at fault.
yay nibbers3 votesYou need to calm down, I see your point already. No need to get personal over it out of the blue. All that said though, it doesn't really change the fact that she can chunk you pretty considerably with Lich Bane in combination with her Q (it's aura included) and Q enhanced passive proc, which does most of the damage by the way (~98% AP scaling total before Lichbane's 50%, putting Lich Bane at about a third of the damage).
I won't deny that Sona's scalings are pretty low, but there are reasons for that and being able to chunk 50%+ of a squishy opponent's HP with Lich Bane is one of them as you mentioned. Though if you look at the math, she's a pretty chunky monkey without it too. Not to mention in low elo she's a terror because people don't really know how to deal with her poking you hard every few seconds in lane. With just a cursory glance at her Q, it would seem like it's a low damage ability. However, throw the aura it gives in and the scaling is effectively 70%, plus decent base damage as the rank goes up. Combine this with the fact that both components (spell and aura enhanced auto) are both targeted so there's no way of dodging them short of staying out of range. When you take into account all the facts, Sona has one of the most reliable pokes in the game with damage pretty high all things considered (total scaling up there with the best, base damage a bit lower but still decent).
We also can't forget how generally useful her kit is and how overbearing it could be with better scaling.
EDIT: I editted in more info before I saw anyone replied
Pika3109 votesYou claim you see the point and then immediately start spewing the same close-minded lies. It's literally impossible for Sona to "chunk" anyone. Yes Lich Bane as an item can do this, but Lich Bane dgaf who bought it, it's going to do that regardless. Continuing to put the blame on Sona is just blatantly prejudiced.
in combination with her Q (it's aura included)
Sona does not use auras. All of her auras were removed in patch 4.13 and replaced with shitty active effects. Those sure as hell aren't auras.
Though if you look at the math, she's a pretty chunky monkey without it too...
I have done the math, numerous times. She factually has the 2nd-lowest damage of a full combo amongst ALL support champions. Claiming otherwise is just straight lying in the purest form.
But let's not forget how generally useful her kit is and how oberbearing it could be with better scaling.
She DID have better scaling pre-4.13 and SHE WAS NOT OVERBEARING. You're just intentionally throwing out buzzwords as propaganda to further your anti-Sona crusade.
yay nibbers2 votesYo I added some more to my post before I saw you'd replied, might wanna look at that.
In any case, I'm sorry you're so resistant to facts. Just because Lich Bane 'dgaf who bought it' it doesn't change how much damage it enables Sona to do. I'm sorry, that's just the way it is. I'm not blaming Sona like you seem to think I'm doing, it's just better on some champions than others. Other notable examples are Fizz and Diana, but champions like Morgana or Swain wouldn't really get much use of it. Side note: I'm not prejudiced against Sona or whatever, I love Sona (got all but her Guqin skin) and have played her on and off since long before her rework. She's one of the first champions I played. I'm simply not blind to the facts.
She does still have auras, they're just different than they were before. Yes, I agree they're worse but they still exist...
I'm not saying she has high full combo damage, I'm saying she can chunk you every so often for a titload of damage. No shit she does less damage than other champions. She's not made to primarily do damage.
What was or wasn't isn't even relevant, what matters is what could be. She could be (not was) overbearing if her scalings were taken too far up. This is why champions like Lee Sin and Kha'Zix both scale off of bonus AD rather than total, to force them to build AD if they want to do a lot of damage. AP doesn't work like that however, AP is by design rather abundant and relatively easy to come by, so Sona's scalings have to be average or lower to balance out the fact that she can give the entire team a one-time damage buff, shield the entire team at the same time she heals herself and a teammate, speed up the entire team, and potentially** stun the entire enemy team**. Notice how many times I used 'entire' and 'team' in the same point. Yes there are other champions that can do these things, but I there isn't a single other champion that can do all of these things in one kit and as easily as Sona can.
EDIT: Made an important point more clear
Pika31010 votesIn any case, I'm sorry you're so resistant to facts.
In any case, I'm sorry you're a close-minded hypocrite.
Just because Lich Bane 'dgaf who bought it' it doesn't change how much damage it enables Sona to do.
Lich Bane doesn't cause Sona to do damage by any stretch of the imagination. In truth, Lich Bane causes itself to do damage, because it's an independent damage source. Which I've had to tell you for the nth time now because you refuse to listen. Here, how about we look at Lich Bane together:
Unique – Spellblade: After using an ability, your next basic attack (on-hit) deals 75% base attack damage and 50% ability power as bonus magic damage. (1.5 second cooldown)
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Lich_Bane
Now let's look at Sona's page:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sona
How strange, I don't see the ability "Spellblade" ANYWHERE on her kit. Mayhaps because it factually IS NOT part of her kit like you're claiming?
She does still have auras,
Definition
Auras have four basic characteristics:
They are AoE spells, based on the position of the caster, otherwise known as point blank area of effect (PBAoE) spells.
_They are instant cast, and have **no cooldown**._
_They have an **infinite duration**, as long as the affected target is within range of the caster, and the caster is alive._
They are not dispellable.
It's a matter-of-fact that Sona has the 2nd-lowest damage potential of all supports. She has the lowest base damage on any support spell. She has the lowest base AD on a support aside from Thresh/Lulu.
Her damage per-game is an entire 33% lower than the support average.
http://www.lolking.net/champions/sona
All of these things are facts supported by mathematics, common sense and the English dictionary.
only zhule10 votesThe problem with the arguement about her damage is that most people don't bother to take it the next logical step. In which i mean that people don't bother to look at how a "traditional" Sona build would function on a different support. Lich Bane and Echo do a lot of damage, even more so because you usually are building a lot of AP on Sona. So what happens when you put Lich bane and Echo on someone like Soraka? How does the damage compare with two abilities that can trigger Lich bane, one of which has a lower base cooldown then any of Sona's spells. How about Nami with a traditional Sona build? The problem is that people quote Sona's damage output with these items that inflate it greatly, but never bother to look at how the same items would effect other champions playing the same role.
As for her auras, you do have to remember that they were put in as a means to "compensate" for the loss of the old always on auras. The one time use magic damage bonus is there to take the place of the +20AD&AP aura, the shield there to take the place of the passive armor and MR (with bonus armor and magic resist on Sona and the healed target). The movement speed bonus on use, i can't remember if that was always an aura or if it use to be like the heal and just active targeted one ally for a large movement bonus. Regardless the point is, that her new abilities don't really take the place of the old ones. Mostly because all the current abilities fall of super quickly forcing Sona to have to spam even harder for the same effect. And we all know how much the community hates spam champions.
Pika3109 votesYes, you're exactly right on everything. I've said before, Lich Echo are items that any champ can build. It doesn't have to be Sona; Soraka and Nami can use these just as well and they're more mobile and tankier than Sona too. Between their higher base stats and scalings, they perform far better with those 2 items than Sona ever could. People just rarely build them because it isn't necessary to rely on such gimmicks to do their jobs.
It's not bad for carries to have to rely on Spellblade to do damage, countless already do it successfully: Hecarim, Corki, TF. On the other hand, supports are supposed to be able to function with only their bases and focus on utility. If a support champ has such a severe lack of utility and damage that they require artificial numbers just to do ANYTHING, then it's apparent there's an inherent problem in that champion's kit that needs addressing. Rito has had over 16 months to address it and they still refuse.
Yes, Celerity already had the active effect of 1.5 seconds of movement speed to everyone within 1000 units upon activation. Rito nerfed the active's range and then removed the aura w/o ANY compensation.
Song of Celerity RANGE: 1000 COST: 65 mana COOLDOWN: 7 Song of Celerity old
Stance Activation: Sona grants nearby allies increased movement speed for 1.5 seconds.
yay nibbers2 votesDon't get me wrong, I totally agree with what you're saying, Sona is definitely worse now than she ever was as far as I can remember. All I'm saying is Sona's already pretty decent poke is greatly augmented by Lich Bane and other items. I'm not saying it's particularly easy to do or anything, all I'm saying is the single target burst potential is there and that is definitely a factor in why she's in the state she's in right now.
As far as other supports go, you can definitely build AP on some of them and do pretty big damage. But none of them can utilize Lich Bane the same way Sona can to do 20-40% or more of the enemy midlaner or ADCs HP in a single spellcast+auto and even more if she gets her Staccato in there.
Here's what I think about Sona's situation, feel free to disagree with this section
Sona definitely needs work, I agree, but just straight up giving her better scaling without taking in all the factors would be reckless. And yes, items, any items no matter who can build them or who they're meant for, are a factor when it comes to champion balance. It clearly shows with how Riot is treating Sona. Lich Bane makes Sona stronger than she really is, that is true, but it's also why she's kept low to compensate. They could nerf Lich Bane, but that would hurt other champions that use it for damage. So, as much as you and I may dislike it, Sona takes the fall. If they were to buff Sona, it would have it be in one of a few ways:
Despite all this mind you, Sona actually has a decent average winrate in plat+ ranked, almost 52%, according to champion.gg. Here we see her winrate fluctuates to even higher with a certain number of games and interestingly comes back down with even more experience for some reason. And, contrary to what Pika310 so angrily tried to shove down my throat, Sona does more damage than the majority of supports. She sits at 8th for damage, and neither the most frequent nor the highest winrate builds even look at Lich Bane until the last item.
Of course, when it comes to healing she's hilariously outclassed by Soraka and even Taric, but they rank among the lowest when it comes to damage. Even Nami, who is just above Sona for healing (about 800ish more), isn't even close to Sona's damage. There's a pretty noticable trend to be seen there.
Keep in mind this is all from a different source than the one Pika310 links in another post, which takes into account all ranked queues and not just plat+, where she's less popular than lower elo queues.
These are just the facts.
ZephyrDrake10 votes[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlhTtBFm,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000010001,timestamp=2015-11-03T19:25:29.768+0000)
snip
so... what we learned was that poke champions poke more often than non poke champions and thus have how much damage they deal total by the end of the game inflated...
Abyssphere7 votes[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlhTtBFm,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-03T17:03:03.673+0000)
This is why champions like Lee Sin and Kha'Zix both scale off of bonus AD rather than total, to force them to build AD if they want to do a lot of damage. AP doesn't work like that however,
AP works exactly like bonus AD. The reason they don't bother specifying "Bonus AP" is because there's no such thing as "base AP", so everything is bonus.
yay nibbers1 votesNot even sure anymore why I brought that up to be honest. The point I was going for is "AP is abundant so Sona has to have scaling that are average-low to balance out the fact that she buffs/heals the entire team" but reading it again that's not even how it came out really.
Dominick Destine5 votes[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlhTtBFm,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000020000,timestamp=2015-11-03T22:45:34.773+0000)
Not even sure anymore why I brought that up to be honest. The point I was going for is "AP is abundant so Sona has to have scaling that are average-low to balance out the fact that she buffs/heals the entire team" but reading it again that's not even how it came out really.
Sona does not "heal the entire team", that's pure nonsense. Her "buffs" are also quite insignificant... pre-rework Sona had some strong team wide persistent buffs, but modern Sona is just a drop in the bucket towards an already weak or strong team , making minimal effect overall.
Sona is already the squishiest champion in the game, saddled with extremely high mana costs, low scaling and no on-demand disable. Sona desperately needs buffs.
yay nibbers1 votesObviously I didn't actually mean she heals the entire team. I was summarizing what I'd said previously. I agree though, her current auras are kind of weak, but I've stated elsewhere the reasons for that.
And uh, I don't know about you, but her W shields have won me and my team many-a-fight when I play her. The AOE stun helps too.
only zhule6 votes[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlhTtBFm,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-03T22:56:20.860+0000)
Obviously I didn't actually mean she heals the entire team. I was summarizing what I'd said previously. I agree though, her current auras are kind of weak, but I've stated elsewhere the reasons for that.
And uh, I don't know about you, but her W shields have won me and my team many-a-fight when I play her. The AOE stun helps too.
Curious on the W shields. Did they win fights are simply help a bit towards already won fights? The blocked damage sounds nice but you will rarely get more then 2 casts off in a fight (most fights don't last longer then 12 seconds if that), and blocking 300-500 damage is nice but rarely does it make or break a team fight (champion leaving surviving with under that amount by the end of the fight).
The Aoe stun is nice but there are plenty of other champions who can do the same thing, a fair amount of which can do it from further away.
Ratbert5 votesap is only abundant when you have gold guess what supports shouldn't really have. Not to mention if you need to build ap on a support you might as well get a utility mage.
If her scalings are supposed to be bad abysmal, why are her bases as well? Her q and w aren't really buffs, but temporary, single use damage modifiers(one increases, one blocks) and her e is basically a captain's boots.
yay nibbers2 votesWhen I say "ap is abundant" I mean there's lots of items that give it, including several support items which Sona usually builds. Items such as 
, even 
and 
occasionally. It's not a whole lot of AP but it's still there.
The bases are low too for the same reason as the scaling. As well all her abilities have low cooldowns and are easily spammable (another factor in the low scaling). Her abilities low cooldowns are why her auras seem so small too. If cast just once, they are indeed quite tiny, but when you're casting them every few seconds in a team fight it adds up. Her W is blocking more and more damage and her Q aura is making your team do that much more, and every little bit counts. If everyone autos the same target with her Q aura on them, she in total adds 500+100%AP magic damage at level 16 on a single Q cast. That of course requires some teamwork, but it's all about the potential. Even two people attack one target adds 200+40%AP damage to a target. Do that several times in a fight and it really starts to add up.
only zhule6 votes[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlhTtBFm,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000002000000010000,timestamp=2015-11-03T23:23:22.091+0000)
When I say "ap is abundant" I mean there's lots of items that give it, including several support items which Sona usually builds. Items such as
The bases are low too for the same reason as the scaling. As well all her abilities have low cooldowns and are easily spammable (another factor in the low scaling). Her abilities low cooldowns are why her auras seem so small too. If cast just once, they are indeed quite tiny, but when you're casting them every few seconds in a team fight it adds up. Her W is blocking more and more damage and her Q aura is making your team do that much more, and every little bit counts. If everyone autos the same target with her Q aura on them, she in total adds 500+100%AP magic damage at level 16 on a single Q cast. That of course requires some teamwork, but it's all about the potential. Even two people attack one target adds 200+40%AP damage to a target. Do that several times in a fight and it really starts to add up.
Except that her abilities aren't nearly as spam able as people claim. 8 seconds, 10 seconds, and 12 seconds, no ability to weave spells together, and all her abilities give simple one off bonuses. 8 seconds on your ONLY damage spell is a lot when you aren't deleting targets with it. 10 second heal is rather so so. While the shield helps a bit, it doesn't last long enough to really make it worth the low base healing. a 1.5 second speed boost, of like 30-60, every 12 seconds is just unimpressive.
As for AP being abundent, sure you can get a bit from some of the support items. But with low base numbers and low scaling (if you don't tag everyone) trying to play her with 100-200 AP just feels bad. Your damage isn't high, your heal/shield isn't negating much, your speed boost is just bad no matter how much AP you get (3.5% ratio).
The whole "well if you get everyone/ your team all targets one person" logic is a huge problem for Sona. It is not reasonable to expect that all of your ability casts will effect your whole team EVERYTIME you cast them. It is not reasonable to expect that most teams will be able to hyper focus one target in 2 seconds, much less that ALL of your allies will choose to auto attack in that time frame, over using other abilities.
When you put the balance point for abilities at the max it becomes this cluster fuck during the early to mid game. 100-200% AP ratios sound insane, 20-40% ratios sound god awful most of the time. And that is one of her problems her full team power is so good on paper that Riot refuses to see how bad she is outside of it. Even in the late game you often aren't constantly in a 5 man death ball, and that 500+ 100%AP starts looking more like 250+50%AP. No other champion has their abilities toned to only function/ be balanced "correctly" when it hits 4 or more targets.
And yes if you manage to be ignored for long enough to belt out 2-4 casts (which hit your whole team) of both your Q and W, you will have made a large difference in the battle. But can't that be said of most supports? If they survive and land 2-4 rounds of their abilities they will have made a huge impact on the team fight.
yay nibbers1 votesYour ability cooldowns become 4.8, 6, and 7.2 respectively at max CDR. They'll be even lower when next patch rolls out and we can get 45% CDR, they'll be sitting at 4.4, 5.5, and 6.6. In both cases they're pretty spammable, and you're easily able to get multiple off in a single fight unless they have a hilariously wombo combo team to drop yours in seconds.
For the most part I agree otherwise though. She relies a lot on teamwork to really shine, but she's sort of designed in a way that makes even mediocre teams to a bit better than they might be. Of course you aren't going to get everyone buff with your Q every time, and they for sure as shit won't be all focusing the same target all the time, but even when they aren't that extra damage you give them could be the difference between an enemy getting away with 100 HP or dying to your teammate. The same applies to your heal/shield. A shield for anywhere between 155 to 200 HP can mean life or death if your allies are low, or it can keep them that much healthier throughout a fight. It might not be as much as Karma or so, but hers is single target where yours is just 'stand near the team and press E'.
I agree Sona could use something, but I think you guys are really underselling her. Her squishiness is really her weakest point if you ask me. She's probably one of, if not the squishiest of champs in the game. If Sona were to get buffs, I think that's where they should start.
And yes if you manage to be ignored for long enough to belt out 2-4 casts (which hit your whole team) of both your Q and W, you will have made a large difference in the battle. But can't that be said of most supports? If they survive and land 2-4 rounds of their abilities they will have made a huge impact on the team fight.
Isn't that the point of being a support? Besides baby the ADC, that is. Your job is to make seemingly minor contributions to a fight that all add up to you being useful.
only zhule6 votesI actually don't want to see her get more naturally tanky. I think we have enough champions that just absorb a ton of damage.
I think most people forget that her low base health AND her low mobility are suppose to be the build in counters to her damage. The issue has now become though that those two things are also what makes her utility kind of a crap shoot. With super low range on her utility, you often have to be in the front lines to have any effect, AND need a ton of AP. This means very little in damage resistance items/ health bonus items or in other words you are squishy through out the entire game. Since this is the case you often can be easily focused down when trying to help your allies. It also means that your team often needs to be grouped up, adding the layer of AOE spells to things that counter Sona's skills super hard.
Other supports can offer their utility from a reasonably safe range + it last long enough that most players can get the buff then walk into combat with it. Sona's not so much.
Also, and this might just be me, Sona kind of feels unimpressive as a support unless she is using her ultimate. Your damage bonuses are half decent but they fall off to quickly + can be wasted on minions + can't be used against structures. Your shields add up, but rarely will you land 1 shield and have it matter enough to save an ally. And her E.... OH GOD her freaking E. 1.5 seconds of a bonus 30-60 movement speed just feels MEH no matter what you do and the fact that her personal speed boost decays down to the aura amount means that you often fail to escape or catch up to enemy champions (what with most champions having a gap closer and/or zoning tool).
Even her powercords are pretty unimpressive. 40% more damage (not sure if before or after AP ratio) on the cord; a damage debuff that is really easy to miss (no particle effects/ model changes/ etc); and a slow... a 40% (+4% ratio) slow for 2 seconds. In a world where the average slow is 60% or more and lasts 1.5-3 seconds on a basic ability, your one pre 6 semi CC is a 40% slow for 2 seconds (which also lacks a noticeable visual to show that the target effected).
chipndip17 votes[{quoted}](name=Ron Pitts,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlhTtBFm,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-04T00:21:43.090+0000)
Your ability cooldowns become 4.8, 6, and 7.2 respectively at max CDR. They'll be even lower when next patch rolls out and we can get 45% CDR, they'll be sitting at 4.4, 5.5, and 6.6. In both cases they're pretty spammable, and you're easily able to get multiple off in a single fight unless they have a hilariously wombo combo team to drop yours in seconds.
For the most part I agree otherwise though. She relies a lot on teamwork to really shine, but she's sort of designed in a way that makes even mediocre teams to a bit better than they might be. Of course you aren't going to get everyone buff with your Q every time, and they for sure as shit won't be all focusing the same target all the time, but even when they aren't that extra damage you give them could be the difference between an enemy getting away with 100 HP or dying to your teammate. The same applies to your heal/shield. A shield for anywhere between 155 to 200 HP can mean life or death if your allies are low, or it can keep them that much healthier throughout a fight. It might not be as much as Karma or so, but hers is single target where yours is just 'stand near the team and press E'.
I agree Sona could use something, but I think you guys are really underselling her. Her squishiness is really her weakest point if you ask me. She's probably one of, if not the squishiest of champs in the game. If Sona were to get buffs, I think that's where they should start.
Isn't that the point of being a support? Besides baby the ADC, that is. Your job is to make seemingly minor contributions to a fight that all add up to you being useful.
Not underselling this champ. She's actually pretty damn bad when facing COMPETENT opponents. I hate to dig at you being low Silver, but you wouldn't know just how she falters as a champ down in Silver. Just cause you can win, doesn't mean you're viable. Sona isn't viable since just about every possible lane counters her. She's too squishy for such low payout on EVERYTHING SHE DOES.
Supports aren't for making minor contributions to fights. Their contributions are supposed to complement the contributions of everyone else. With that logic, Sona's current state is ass-backwards. She has to build halfway like a mid-laner just to make those contributions worth picking her over other supports. Makes no sense. I love the champ and the play style, but if I'm going to have to be under constant threat of getting straight 100 -> 0 owned 24/7, I shouldn't get such measly rewards for it.
Anihaku5 votesExcept the difference between Lich Bane and say RoA or Deathcap, etc. that you are intentionally ignoring is that Lich Bane CREATES its own damage source that is 100% independent of who the hell you build it on. Sona herself has shit scalings, shit bases and does no damage, but trolls keep insisting the contrary based on the false information of Lich Bane.
Fact of the matter is: Sona does shit damage; Lich Bane does absurd damage. Sheep are blaming Sona for a situation Lich Bane is creating. It's the same as blaming a knife for some random person committing murder with it. YOU are claiming the knife is at fault.
Although you tone is very pointed right now..... I couldn't agree more. The misconception about Sonas current state when in relation to LB just proves that most of the community is unaware or just claim ignorance.
If you have to use an item as part of your reasoning as to why they are "just fine" or "OP" means that you are entirely missing the point imo. And just for clarification.... Play a lot of sona here and even with a LB & Ludens on Sona, she is still very easily countered (as are most champions everyone says are OP"). Did we all forget counter play?
I am an advocate for some changes for Sona. I heard about how she was pre 4.13 and I'm quite jealous I was unable to experience her with that kit.
Sona, along with many other champs, needs some love!
Emmy Cha0s5 votesPre 4.13 is the correct patch.
LordGeovanni1 votessonas bases are bad thats why her scaleing is good you go try no ap sona
Pika3105 votessonas bases are bad thats why her scaleing is good you go try no ap sona
Her scalings are just as shitty as her bases, if not worse.
Sona's scaling is SO BAD, she factually falls off at level 2 and just gets weaker from then on.
Dominick Destine6 votesHer scalings are just as shitty as her bases, if not worse.
- 2nd-lowest armor of a support at level 18
- Her HP goes from 2nd-lowest at level 1 to still only 4th-lowest at 18
- Her mana is lower than Janna, Soraka and Nami's at all levels from 1 - 18, despite having the identical mana gen pattern
- Her level 18 AD remains tied for lowest of supports, same as at level 1
- Staccato's scaling was lowered from 100% all the way down to an embarassing 40%
- Her heal has the lowest AP scaling in the game and her shield has the lowest amongst all supports
- Both damage spells, Q and R have a moderately low 50% AP
- The loss of auras removed indirect scaling from her kit, replaced with a complete self-reliance of stacking max-AP items, despite having amongst the shittiest AP scalings in the game
- Lowest MS tier in the game means she gets the absolute lowest benefit from MS buffs and items
Sona's scaling is SO BAD, she factually falls off at level 2 and just gets weaker from then on.
Yeowch, I hope Riot is listening.
I am Diamond and although I love Sona as a character, her performance is absolutely atrocious compared to any of the other (good) supports (Ex: Soraka, Thresh, Blitz, Annie, Braum, Leona... hell , even Brand and Zyra are much better than Sona... I'd even settle for Cho'Gath support over Sona)
LVL 5 PORO2 votesAs someone who plays the occasional Sona. Qing someone with a Lichbane+Ludens is the most beautiful thing to witness. The only thing that makes health bars dissappear faster is a fed veigar.
Pika31014 votesVeigar or literally every champ in the game. Sorry to burst your intentionally misleading bubble of propaganda, but LICH BANE AND LUDEN'S ECHO ARE ITEMS THAT ANY CHAMPION CAN BUY. THEY ARE NOT SONA-SPECIFIC AND ARE NOT PART OF HER KIT OR ACTUAL DAMAGE OUTPUT.
Hupsis7 votesI think it's only the means how she is able to proc that damage in one bulk that makes it seem very strong.
Viktor and TF are able to do the same with their abilities to enhance their next auto attack.
Baron of Bread1 votesThat is pretty similar to saying that Zhonya's is not part of Swain's or Fiddlestick's kit, but how often do you see them not used? Or more directly related, Twisted Fate with Lich Bane and Garen with Black Cleaver? If an item is nearly always built on a champion then you should consider that item when you discuss that champion, whether or not anyone can build them.
only zhule5 votes[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlhTtBFm,comment-id=000200000002,timestamp=2015-11-04T02:05:39.645+0000)
That is pretty similar to saying that Zhonya's is not part of Swain's or Fiddlestick's kit, but how often do you see them not used? Or more directly related, Twisted Fate with Lich Bane and Garen with Black Cleaver? If an item is nearly always built on a champion then you should consider that item when you discuss that champion, whether or not anyone can build them.
Fair, BUT let me ask you this. If Sona need 200 AP or less to function on part utility wise with other supports, do you think you would see Lich bane being built on her as often? Or better said, if you are going to build a ton of AP why wouldn't you build Lich bane?
Baron of Bread2 votesIf I were to build a lot of AP on Sona I would always consider Lich Bane. However I think that there could be better choices in some situations, such as if the enemy team has a high damage diver so you are trying to use your W chord instead of your Q chord or if getting in auto range of your enemies is really dangerous. In either of those cases, you aren't going for the high damage Q-AA poke that is why Lich Bane is such a common buy on her. Instead you might grab a Spooky Ghosts or Rylai's or Rabbadon's or Banner of Command.
Plenty of champs don't build Lich Bane because of long cooldowns, better choices and not enough time to AA. If a Sona wants more damage Lich Bane is a go to choice because it lets her do damage with all of her casts, not just her Q and R while also making her Q-AA poke 50% AP stronger. But if damage isn't all you are interested in, then there are many better choices for Sona.
only zhule6 votes[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TlhTtBFm,comment-id=00020000000200000000,timestamp=2015-11-04T04:01:16.680+0000)
If I were to build a lot of AP on Sona I would always consider Lich Bane. However I think that there could be better choices in some situations, such as if the enemy team has a high damage diver so you are trying to use your W chord instead of your Q chord or if getting in auto range of your enemies is really dangerous. In either of those cases, you aren't going for the high damage Q-AA poke that is why Lich Bane is such a common buy on her. Instead you might grab a Spooky Ghosts or Rylai's or Rabbadon's or Banner of Command.
Plenty of champs don't build Lich Bane because of long cooldowns, better choices and not enough time to AA. If a Sona wants more damage Lich Bane is a go to choice because it lets her do damage with all of her casts, not just her Q and R while also making her Q-AA poke 50% AP stronger. But if damage isn't all you are interested in, then there are many better choices for Sona.
I feel like if you are already rocking 400+ AP there really aren't many items or situations where you would rather have something else then a Lich bane. That's just my impression though.
TurquoiseYoshi1 votesShe needs utility buffs (W+E) and damage nerfs (Q). She should not be a mage mid laner pretending to be a support.
chipndip18 votesShe needs utility buffs (W+E) and damage nerfs (Q). She should not be a mage mid laner pretending to be a support.
She doesn't need EVEN LESS DAMAGE on her only damage spell.
Baron of Bread1 votesIt would make the rest of her kit feel more impactful when compared to it. :P
Miku Hime sama4 votesHow is that supposed to be a good thing? Shitty utility feels better because damage is even worse?
I guess I should stab myself in the leg to divert my attention away from the paper-cut on my finger? Is that what you're suggesting?
Totalis1 votesexcept that she USED TO have incredibly high burst for a support, now, not so much. the fuck op?
only zhule7 votesSarcasm isn't your strong suit is it?