Sona's utility needs some serious power boost

only zhule··40 votes·1,810 views

For a champion who is basically all about the team utility, Sona's utility leaves A LOT to be desired. Her mana costs are painfully high, her range is a joke for a champion as fragile as she is, and she is slow as dirt, and she is so reliant of AP that you can't even get up to par till 15-20 mins into the game. Plus all of these don't even touch on the fact that her utility is really feast of famine. While i will readily admit her utility is probably #1 in the game if you can be tagging your whole team with each cast, as soon as you start missing even one ally those skills start seeing huge diminishing returns. "only managed to tag two allies? well it's not garbage but it's certainly isn't award winning.... only tagged one ally? why did you even bother casting the spell!!"

Her movement speed is probably the most painful problem to deal with. given that she lacks a stun or escape tool (outside flash). Having some of the lowest base movement speed in the game just makes her a painfully easy target for even the most basic champions to catch. I understood this issue back when her aura's were always on and had a 1000 range, people should feel good if they catch her. But now you have to be near the front lines to be helping your team, so being super slow to boot just doesn't work anymore. For those who mention her E speed boost, this would be wonderful but it has a HUGE cooldown and until you get a couple points into the skill max your CDR and have a fair chunk of AP it just doesn't give enough of a boost for long enough to really provide a meaningful use of the skill. And this is the big issue even at max CDR the skill is still on a 7.2 second cooldown, given that basically every other character has some form of gap closer, long range slow, and/or higher base movement speed there is basically no way to escape an enemy who is chasing you, or run down a target who is fleeing from you. Two things to keep in mind are that the movement speed bonus starts at 3 seconds, you can get an additional half a second per ally tagged but this still means that even if you tag all your allies you will have just over 2 sec where the aura is not effecting you. The other key thing to remember is that the aura decays over time meaning that while the 13-23% movement speed bonus sounds amazing you often will not get the full bonus for more then a brief moment meaning that again you will not be able to sustain the speed you need to be hyper mobile around the map.

Let's now move to her W, heal/shield. This skill is very cost prohibitive in the early game and in the late game it often doesn't provide enough of a bonus to really swing fights, often feeling like a win more ability. At the start of the game the spell costs a whooping 80 mana to cast, and heals for a pitiful 30 per target, with a half % boost per 1% missing health, meaning that if you heal a target who is at 1% health you do 45 points of health. Yes i am aware that the spell heals two targets mean that for the cost you are getting a base heal amount of 60 with a possible max heal of 90. Even with this factored in the mana cost to healing done is still painfully lacking. To give a counter example, please look at Taric (the only other champion with a split heal), his mana cost starts at 60 and heals both targets for 60 health. Meaning that for less mana this champion can out heal you by 33-50%. If we look to the late game this skill often stops being about the heal and becomes more about it's secondary effect (the shield). Here we run into a different kind of issue. That being that her aura range is painfully low forcing her to be in the middle of her team, who all need to be very bunched up, to apply the shield properly. The shield also has it's own set of problems, those being that it doesn't last very long 1.5 seconds so if not used very selectively it can fall off an ally before it absorbs any damage. The other big flaw is that the shields on their own aren't all that impressive assuming maxed W ranks and a maxed ultimate your skill provides a 150 +20% AP shield to your allies. This will usually mean blocking 1/4-1 of an attack (auto or skill), not all that impressive if looked at individually. This skill much like her E would probably be amazing if you could reasonably spam them, but since this skill has a 10 second base cooldown, meaning a 6 second cooldown at max CDR, you often will be unable to cast the spell more then once or twice in a fight. The skill might also be saved if Sona's aura range was large enough that she could skirt the edges of the fight for better positioning. However since all her "auras" have a super small radius, you will often have to be in the middle of your group in easy engage range of your opponents (and since she is so fragile even mild focus will kill you quickly).

TL:DR

Sona is to slow and lacks engage/disengage Her E doesn't compensate enough and isn't off cooldown enough to make up for it. Sona's heal is too weak to matter in a fight, and costs to much to allow for healing after skirmishes.
Her shield is unimpressive when looked at what it offers to each individual ally. Her Utility cooldowns are so high you can't use the skills often enough in a fight to have much effect on the fight (even with max CDR) Her aura ranges are to short to allow her to be on the edge of combat instead of in the middle She is too fragile/ easily focued to have to be in the center of combat

57 Comments

Aeolian Melodies10 votes

Sona's utility is extremely strong when you consider her best case scenario - hitting all 4 teammates with her auras and having them utilize the buff provided. However, because she is balanced around her best case scenario, she isn't as impressive 2v2 or if you can't tag your whole team; but look at her QWE numbers and take into consideration using that on your whole team. Her numbers are actually insane on paper. But tagging your whole team with all three auras every fight is quite unrealistic, leaving her with a "meh" feeling in most situations.

only zhule1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lh8jyOan,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-23T04:51:16.481+0000)

Sona's utility is extremely strong when you consider her best case scenario - hitting all 4 teammates with her auras and having them utilize the buff provided. However, because she is balanced around her best case scenario, she isn't as impressive 2v2 or if you can't tag your whole team; but look at her QWE numbers and take into consideration using that on your whole team. Her numbers are actually insane on paper. But tagging your whole team with all three auras every fight is quite unrealistic, leaving her with a "meh" feeling in most situations.

That is very much my issue. On paper where you are getting all 4 allies everytime her numbers are insane. But the doesn't happen often in a real game. If her aura range was better so you could blow kisses rather then you having to be kissing the cheek of all your allies (up the range to something like 500-550). That might be less a problem. Her E is still an issue in that outside of your team balling up to push the movement speed bonus isn't often their to give you the speed to get to allies, and movement speed isn't a big factor in the middle of a fight.

RogueWill2 votes

I will rather have The skill based on each scenario something like Irelia Passive. Depending on how many allies you hit you get better results. 1 champion - 50 hp shield 2 champions - 45 hp shield 3 champions - 40 hp shield 4 champions - 35 hp shield

chipndip13 votes

[{quoted}](name=Aeolian Melodies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lh8jyOan,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-23T04:51:16.481+0000)

Sona's utility is extremely strong when you consider her best case scenario - hitting all 4 teammates with her auras and having them utilize the buff provided. However, because she is balanced around her best case scenario, she isn't as impressive 2v2 or if you can't tag your whole team; but look at her QWE numbers and take into consideration using that on your whole team. Her numbers are actually insane on paper. But tagging your whole team with all three auras every fight is quite unrealistic, leaving her with a "meh" feeling in most situations.

So when the ranges on your abilities are that short in explosive LoL team fights, tell me how you're gonna get that to happen while also avoiding enemy cc that's just WAITING for you guys to clump up?

Zorae428 votes

Which hardly seems fair. Amumu's despair doesn't feel useless in 2v2. Ziggs bombs don't feel terrible. Ravenous Hydra doesn't make your AAs do 30% dmg around you.

Damaging AE abilities may do slightly less dmg than single target ones, but they don't feel terrible or like they're balanced around you hitting all 5 people with them.

So why does Sona have to feel so bad when it comes to buffing?

Pika3101 votes

It also assumes that all of your allies can utilize the effect. That is almost never going to be the case. Your entire team won't have damage focused at them in the next half second. Your Xerath won't magically know to walk into range in the next 2 seconds and auto the bruiser waiting for a chance to grab him.

Logically speaking, even in the nigh-impossible chance you can tag all 4 allies, it becomes exponentially more impossible for all of them to actually use the effect you tagged them with. A much more reasonable expectation is only 1, maybe 2 allies at best, including herself...

RedCyclone10 votes

Sona

A support who has one of the lowest base stats in the game A SUPPORT who has some of the lowest base values on her skills (WTF?) A support who needs 300+AP to make her skills have the same amount of utility as she had pre rework

Sadly Riot wont seem to comment on the issue, they dodged my post in the recent red thread even though It's on the front page with a bunch of upvotes

Dasaru3 votes

I honestly consider creating Sona threads of my own. I feel as though any effort I put through is going to get ignored by Riot. The OP of this thread hit the nail on the head though and I agree with him 100% (and is probably what I would say if I made a post). I just hope that Riot sees this and acknowledges us Sona players and actually looks at her kit.

roroi5 votes

While I do agree with your point Sona suffers from a certain problem. She can do A LOT of things, but she's very bad at doing one specific thing.

She had her ups and downs but she was nerfed during her ups.

Her poke from Q AND the power chord bonus after a Q got hit too. Sure I can take this, she isn't known for her INSANE poke. She just has some.

Then they made her base healing heal lower when they reworked her BUT gave her a 1% bonus per 1% missing hp. They said it was because she was too good at keeping her duo partner near full health and made it reward you more for using it in clutch situations. Mana cost is a whopping 80 at rank one. The manacost punishes you for using it near full health as well. I liked this tradeoff.

So here's my question - Why did they have to nerf the % bonus healing per missing hp ( 1% => 0.5% ) ? It wasn't that strong even like you said it only matters when the BASE heal starts growing - i.e when you buy AP which in turn leaves you squishy af.

Edit: Also why are the ult bonuses so utterly shit? I mean 10/20/40 damage/ shield is laughable. The ult is balanced around its long cooldown, why can't we give it better bonuses?

I'm not a fan or just buffing these bonuses a lot because then she'd end up with even more power "hidden" in her ability to hit the entire team.

Instead I'd like to propose some sort of "specialisation". When you rank your ult for the first time you can choose which ability you want to get upgrades for at the next ult levels. This way you can give each ability some sort of meaningful reward for choosing it.

Say you're playing versus an assassin heavy team. You get 6, rank your ult and choose to upgrade W. Your W now reduces damage by 5%/10%/15% shielded/healed targets take for 1.5 seconds (same duration as shield). This might not be the best solution but it's just an idea I'm throwing around.

1000angrybees5 votes

How little sense Sona makes right now:

  • better in mid lane, by herself and not supporting an ally except the occasional roaming teammate
  • Gets all the necessary AP she needs to do a lot of damage and support her team well
  • has less distance to close to the safety of her tower than in bot lane
  • can equip her with better runes and masteries to make her faster and stronger
  • can equip any summoner spell you like to help sona win or survive (barrier, ignite, teleport, etc.)
  • can focus less on healing, which takes up a lot of mana, and focus more on poking, harassing and zoning
  • Can easily overwhelm some of the squishy midlaners, or the ones with lack of range or tools to retaliate against Sona's poke

The fact that she functions better as a mid laner, by herself, instead of her first and intended role as a support, really is a giant red flag waving outside Riot's office windows that they just ignore and pull the shades down on.

only zhule2 votes

My big issue is that because they still want her to feel like a support, she no longer has the damage output or other tools she needs to really hold down a good mid lane. Most of this is in her lack of passive auras and how much they use to help in mitigating damage taken and her limit of one damage spell. But what really kind of put the nail in the coffin is that all her spells now have longer cooldowns (+1 second on Q, +3 seconds on W, +5 seconds on E)

Drive By Max3 votes

Why is her ult not considered an engage/disengage?

only zhule4 votes

{quoted}

Why is her ult not considered an engage/disengage?

Because it's hard to land when trying to run someone down or escape them, you often will have to flash ult (much like Annie but with much less burst). And it doesn't stun long enough to provide a means of escape or the ability to finish them off/ cover enough ground that their escape tools can't out pace you again. Often you will have to combo ultimate into powercord E after ult wears off, to provide a long enough window for a proper engage/disengage.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lh8jyOan,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-10-23T05:10:11.833+0000)

Because it's hard to land when trying to run someone down or escape them, you often will have to flash ult (much like Annie but with much less burst). And it doesn't stun long enough to provide a means of escape or the ability to finish them off/ cover enough ground that their escape tools can't out pace you again. Often you will have to combo ultimate into powercord E after ult wears off, to provide a long enough window for a proper engage/disengage.

Her ult is not hard to land,and never will in any situation

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

Her ult is not hard to land,and never will in any situation

except when you need to run someone down before you can hit them with her ultimate, or need to run away from an enemy and they have a good chance of killing you if you get within range to use your ultimate defensively.

Those aside, i would also ask how many other champions need to use their ultimate as a escape tool? Not CAN use it as such but NEED to if they are even mildly caught out of position? Can you name 3?

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

Her ult is not hard to land,and never will in any situation

except when you need to run someone down before you can hit them with her ultimate, or need to run away from an enemy and they have a good chance of killing you if you get within range to use your ultimate defensively.

Those aside, i would also ask how many other champions need to use their ultimate as a escape tool? Not CAN use it as such but NEED to if they are even mildly caught out of position? Can you name 3?

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lh8jyOan,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2015-10-25T18:08:29.982+0000)

except when you need to run someone down before you can hit them with her ultimate, or need to run away from an enemy and they have a good chance of killing you if you get within range to use your ultimate defensively.

Those aside, i would also ask how many other champions need to use their ultimate as a escape tool? Not CAN use it as such but NEED to if they are even mildly caught out of position? Can you name 3?

Talon,Kassadin,Xin zhao

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

Talon,Kassadin,Xin zhao

I'll give you Xin. I'm not going to count the Invisibility ult or the ult that's entire purpose in mobility, as being on par with Sona's need to blow her ultimate.

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lh8jyOan,comment-id=000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-26T22:11:04.715+0000)

I'll give you Xin. I'm not going to count the Invisibility ult or the ult that's entire purpose in mobility, as being on par with Sona's need to blow her ultimate.

Lol you asked I gave you answer. Want more? Rengar,sion basicly because being tanky won't help you 1v4,Mundo. Basicly nobody needs to blow their ult,its situational but anyone including sona can escape in another form,in case of sona's is her E

Hayaishi22 votes

Considering she takes no skill compared to most supports and her kit is more straight forward and simple than most supports, she does fine which doesn't mean she is in a good place.

Point is; if you want Sona buffs she needs to stop being faceroll.

only zhule7 votes

I would disagree on the skill cap. But i assume you are commenting about the fact that all her skills except her ultimate auto target?

While i will admit this does make her easier. Let's be honest for a moment here, if she had to aim all her skills the amount of power she would need to compensate for skill shot Q's, point and click W's, point and click E's? Would be so high that anyone who could master her even a little bit would outclass 90% of other champions. I imagine Yasuo level cooldowns on her poke; Soraka X Janna fusion levels of power on her W.

Hayaishi21 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lh8jyOan,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-23T05:25:36.598+0000)

I would disagree on the skill cap. But i assume you are commenting about the fact that all her skills except her ultimate auto target?

While i will admit this does make her easier. Let's be honest for a moment here, if she had to aim all her skills the amount of power she would need to compensate for skill shot Q's, point and click W's, point and click E's? Would be so high that anyone who could master her even a little bit would outclass 90% of other champions. I imagine Yasuo level cooldowns on her poke; Soraka X Janna fusion levels of power on her W.

Maybe it's not much about skill cap but reliability. For example i consider myself a decent Thresh player and there have been games where i can't hit a hook to save my life, now let's ignore Thresh's balance state, if you can't hit his spells you're useless, if you missed a crucial hook your carry is dead or you let the enemy Vayne escape. This wouldn't happen with Sona. I think it's safe to assume Riot has a hard time deciding how to give her meaningful power that feels good thematically without making her too easy, so they proceed to nerf base stats, give her huge mana costs trying to balance her which just makes her feel shitty to play when take into account what she is MEANT to be.

only zhule5 votes

{quoted}

Maybe it's not much about skill cap but reliability. For example i consider myself a decent Thresh player and there have been games where i can't hit a hook to save my life, now let's ignore Thresh's balance state, if you can't hit his spells you're useless, if you missed a crucial hook your carry is dead or you let the enemy Vayne escape. This wouldn't happen with Sona. I think it's safe to assume Riot has a hard time deciding how to give her meaningful power that feels good thematically without making her too easy, so they proceed to nerf base stats, give her huge mana costs trying to balance her which just makes her feel shitty to play when take into account what she is MEANT to be.

i see your point. You can't really miss with her skills except her ultimate (or if you misjudge your range). But that's kind of half the problem, none of the up front part of your skills is all that impressive. Thresh's hook can make or break a fight. Sona's W might change a really close duel but it's not going to save your ally if they were going to lose, her damage boost on Q isn't often going to be the difference between a kill vs a lose or escape.

This of course brings the biggest problem to the table. She often in the mid game becomes a walking stun and nothing more, If you don't build a lot of AP in the late game she often is just a walking stun with some aura items to help her team. Her other skills stop really mattering because if you miss your ultimate you don't do much of anything for the next 70-80 seconds.

Hayaishi21 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lh8jyOan,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-23T05:40:30.095+0000)

i see your point. You can't really miss with her skills except her ultimate (or if you misjudge your range). But that's kind of half the problem, none of the up front part of your skills is all that impressive. Thresh's hook can make or break a fight. Sona's W might change a really close duel but it's not going to save your ally if they were going to lose, her damage boost on Q isn't often going to be the difference between a kill vs a lose or escape.

This of course brings the biggest problem to the table. She often in the mid game becomes a walking stun and nothing more, If you don't build a lot of AP in the late game she often is just a walking stun with some aura items to help her team. Her other skills stop really mattering because if you miss your ultimate you don't do much of anything for the next 70-80 seconds.

Yeah exactly.

So i believe (Might not be the case) that Riot sees it this way "Thresh hook can be game changing because there's a margin for error" "Sona's Q can't have the same effect because it's too reliable" So they force Sona to use her auras on 4 people to feel effective (Which is hard as fuck because teamfights are too chaotic) so they might be a little afraid of giving her too much power for not enough trade offs.

IMO Riot shouldn't have reworked her of they couldn't sort that out. Now it's going to take longer than it should to make her feel the Aura support that needs to choose her auras carefully in order to affect her teams in meaningful ways, because as you say, all sona does mid/late game is flash crescendo, hoping she hits 3 or more people.

only zhule2 votes

I would kill just to have actual aura's back. Hell keep the time limit thing but make then auras not one time use effects. Maybe like an AOE heal, that heals in ticks (like Janna's ult) so that you can't get full power just by popping in and out. A reasonable AD/AP bonus so long as you are in the Q field, maybe make it a % bonus.

She strikes me as the character you want for small windows of extreme power. Instead of the old invisible power that never went away. You have these little 3-5 second windows where you and your team get these power spikes. Be it hitting your W to negate a big burst shot, or Q to knock out that Juggernaut before she gets off stun. Basically i'd rather feel like each of my spells had a big effect but a long-ish cooldown. Then feel like i'm only viable if i can manage to tag 4 other people, reposition and tag them a second time.

I guess what i'm trying to say is that if you don't count her ultimate, the only other time Sona feels like she is having a noticeable effect on the game, is when she tags her whole team. But even then it never feels like this huge victory, just mildly above what you would expect form a support.

Pika3101 votes

You can't really miss with her skills except her ultimate

Except that you CAN miss with her skills. You don't control who gets hit by Hymn's bolts. You don't get to choose who you're going to heal. Q just does whatever the hell it wants, tank or squishy they fly at whoever at random. Her heal? Always whoever has the lowest %, even if it's the tank in no danger of dying.

Pika3101 votes

I've always felt the auto-targeting nature of her skills is more of a hindrance than help. If I'm trying to burst down the enemy ADC, I don't want my bolts flying off to tickle the Rene and Tahm. If I'm trying to heal my own team's ADC, I get really annoyed when the Mundo who's Warmog is about to trigger gobbles it up instead.

When you look at Sona's kit from a logical point-of-view, it's actually very inconsistent, hard to control and unreliable. I can't tell you how many times I've intentionally walked a distance away from certain teammates/enemies just to avoid the exact scenarios I listed above. Sona was always reliant on positioning for many reasons, but now it's reached a level of impossibility. I can't be in 2 places at once to take advantage of 2 separate abilities on a single spell that directly contradict each other the way both her Q and W do.

RedCyclone3 votes

Remember that rework about a year ago, the one where Fearless made a huge thread discussing with Sona players what we liked and wanted changing

A MASSIVE support for wanting Sona to have a higher skillcap was in that thread Guess what never happened?

Also a champion being easy should not set them miles behind a champion that is difficult, that's just flat out unfair

CasterGilgamesh2 votes

If she is a utility support why does she play more like a poke Mage? I thought her last rework would move her away from a poke Mage.and put her in a place where she stays in the back and buffs her team similar to someone like Soraka who stays in the back and heals we already have normal mages that can go bot and support I would be ok if sona could poke I just don't want that to be the focus of her kit.

1000angrybees3 votes

They pigeon-holed her into being a poke mage/support and a secondary APC. She originally could stay back if she was playing passively, now she's supposed to be an aggressive poke support that needs to get close to do most of her damage, but is as fragile as sugar glass.

TNHA Baritone1 votes

Sona needs more depth. She may be "easy" but its hard to make impact with her

legionnaire991 votes

her spells are easier then point and click sona main have no reason to whine

Ulquiorra99512 votes

Go play a few games as Sona. Try to utilize powerchord + empowered AA, your main source of damage, in a lane against any support with hard CC and/or engage (aka every support that sees play these days). Then come back and say how easy she is again - if you can, that is.

legionnaire991 votes

{quoted}

Go play a few games as Sona. Try to utilize powerchord + empowered AA, your main source of damage, in a lane against any support with hard CC and/or engage (aka every support that sees play these days). Then come back and say how easy she is again - if you can, that is.

yea but play vs any champ that isn't Leona Nautilus then go tell me how easy she is

1011001110005 votes

Nami out-sustains her, has a better engage, and proper disengage.

Taric has a point-and-click CC to catch Sona with.

Annie can just outright burst her down.

Alistar can combo her when she comes in auto-range and she becomes an easy kill, and he even has his own heal to sustain.

Blitzcrank just decimates Sona lanes.

Zyra provides netter utility with her snare and can deal spot damage, along with a really wide AoE knockup.

Thresh outdamages and out-CCs her.

Lulu has better poke, a stronger pre-6 CC in Polymorph, and better teamfight utility.

legionnaire991 votes

{quoted}

Nami out-sustains her, has a better engage, and proper disengage.

Taric has a point-and-click CC to catch Sona with.

Annie can just outright burst her down.

Alistar can combo her when she comes in auto-range and she becomes an easy kill, and he even has his own heal to sustain.

Blitzcrank just decimates Sona lanes.

Zyra provides netter utility with her snare and can deal spot damage, along with a really wide AoE knockup.

Thresh outdamages and out-CCs her.

Lulu has better poke, a stronger pre-6 CC in Polymorph, and better teamfight utility.

nami also uses allot more mana

Taric is kinda useless unless youe adc is a bag of rocks

Annie is annie

Alistar also uses allot of mana for the little pool he has

Blitzcrank don't stand still

Zyra will most likey kill you

Thresh same as blitz and poke

lulu has one man lock up like Leona

only zhule1 votes

{quoted}

nami also uses allot more mana

Taric is kinda useless unless youe adc is a bag of rocks

Annie is annie

Alistar also uses allot of mana for the little pool he has

Blitzcrank don't stand still

Zyra will most likey kill you

Thresh same as blitz and poke

lulu has one man lock up like Leona

problem is that trying to dodge that Thresh or blitz means you can't try to ambush from the bushes, you can't extend very far or you risk getting body blocked by creeps and making yourself an easy target for a grab.

Also your counter points aren't really good at explaining how the issues those champions may face makes them equal or in a worse place then Sona.

legionnaire991 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lh8jyOan,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-25T18:11:59.259+0000)

problem is that trying to dodge that Thresh or blitz means you can't try to ambush from the bushes, you can't extend very far or you risk getting body blocked by creeps and making yourself an easy target for a grab.

Also your counter points aren't really good at explaining how the issues those champions may face makes them equal or in a worse place then Sona.

see every champ has counter play what your saying will remove her and i'm all for her ult giving a powercord she is most likely the supp in the best spot not op but not crap

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

see every champ has counter play what your saying will remove her and i'm all for her ult giving a powercord she is most likely the supp in the best spot not op but not crap

Could not disagree with you more. She's balanced around tagging all her allies so laning is really bad, her aura ranges aren't big enough to make tagging allies even remotely easy, she is still made of glass so you can't take a hit (but need to be in the front row for your utility), and her AP requirements are on par with most AP carries.

Sona's counter play is "don't face check a bush at below 20% health, and don't ignore her for 30 seconds during a fight"

1011001110002 votes

Nami's mana costs, aside from ranking W, are on-par with Sona's mana costs. Nami isn't worse in this regard.

Taric is most certainly not useless. He provides a substantial mount of early game armor and armor shred with his w, provides reliable sustain with his Q, and great counter-engage with his e, all while still bringing a ball of stats ulti to the table. It's not something to gawk at.

Alistar uses a lot of mana because he combos, and his combo is ALOT more devastating than Sona is. If he can pull it off twice on Sona alone with adc follow-up, she's as good as dead.

Blitzcrank has such high pressure, he can spend several idle seconds just standing inside the lane bush just exerting pressure with his mere existence. Don't pretend like you don't live behind minions 24/7 afraid of his hook.

Thresh is meaner than Blitz because he has MORE reliable CC.

Lulu can also ult a diving tank and get a multi-man knock-up with her ult, an already stronger CC than Sona's stun. Leona's ulti also has a substantial range and lends her to multi-man lockdowns.

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

her spells are easier then point and click sona main have no reason to whine

You are aware that if they made the spells point and click they would need to buff the hell out of them. Like say having her Q do the total amount of damage to one target compared to the split between two? Below is a reference at what that might look like

Active: Sona sends out bolts of sound that deal 80 / 160 / 240 / 320 / 400 (+120% of ability power) magic damage to the nearest enemy within 700-range, prioritizing champions.

legionnaire991 votes

[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Lh8jyOan,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2015-10-24T18:10:13.558+0000)

You are aware that if they made the spells point and click they would need to buff the hell out of them. Like say having her Q do the total amount of damage to one target compared to the split between two? Below is a reference at what that might look like

Active: Sona sends out bolts of sound that deal 80 / 160 / 240 / 320 / 400 (+120% of ability power) magic damage to the nearest enemy within 700-range, prioritizing champions.

i know but she is really healthy in her spot lanes that counter her in all-in lanes and she will win any poke lane unless you adc suck and just takes in without trying to move out the way so really buffing her is pointless

only zhule2 votes

{quoted}

i know but she is really healthy in her spot lanes that counter her in all-in lanes and she will win any poke lane unless you adc suck and just takes in without trying to move out the way so really buffing her is pointless

The issue is that except for her, there aren't really any poke lane supports. Lulu is rarely bottom, Janna has range over you, and Soraka doesn't need to poke to win (it helps)

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

If her damage will be nerfed hard,buff her utility however you want

Pika3102 votes

You want to nerf the damage of the support with the 2nd-lowest damage potential in the game, just after Braum? A support that is tied for both lowest base damage on a spell AND lowest base AD(excluding Thresh and Lulu?)

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I8wnYQ9wKIw/hqdefault.jpg

TyroneWatermelon1 votes

{quoted}

You want to nerf the damage of the support with the 2nd-lowest damage potential in the game, just after Braum? A support that is tied for both lowest base damage on a spell AND lowest base AD(excluding Thresh and Lulu?)

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/I8wnYQ9wKIw/hqdefault.jpg

Sona has one of the highest burst between the supports,and nowhere close to the bottom. Just because her Q at level 1 doesn't deal a lot of damage,doesn't mean she has low,Check out how easy to land it is,spammable,plus add the damage she receives within her next aa,(not passive,but you can also add that) The supports with high damage,actually have skillshots that can be missed like tahm,lulu and trash Q. Btw she is utility support,she pays for damage by giving her allies utility,like soraka and taric,but she still have overpowered dmg.

only zhule3 votes

{quoted}

Sona has one of the highest burst between the supports,and nowhere close to the bottom. Just because her Q at level 1 doesn't deal a lot of damage,doesn't mean she has low,Check out how easy to land it is,spammable,plus add the damage she receives within her next aa,(not passive,but you can also add that) The supports with high damage,actually have skillshots that can be missed like tahm,lulu and trash Q. Btw she is utility support,she pays for damage by giving her allies utility,like soraka and taric,but she still have overpowered dmg.

So let's break this down. If her 1 damage spell was point and click you would likely be seeing it do A TON more damage (since it's split into two targets currently). So probably look at it doing about 300-400 (before on hit or factoring in AP) at rank 5. Look at her heal have a higher base amount and an insane shield (can't hit all 5 allies, got to balance it around 2 then.... OOPS giant shields). And i can only image the cluster fuck that would be her E.

As for damage, you are joking right? Have you ever built her like a "traditional" support. Instead of item 3100 item 3285 item 3089 you run item 3110 item 3190 item 3504 . It's amazing how when you don't give her a shit ton of AP items all that "insane damage" suddenly goes up in smoke.

Shénzhì1 votes

A Sona rework could highlight her kit of aura buffs by increasing their potency and range.

Rhythm will be Sona's unique playstyle like how Heimerdinger has turrets. The skill part may be to generate Rhythm and decisively use the correct ability given the current constantly-changing battle situation.

[Variation of Rhythm idea]

Her new passive would amplify the diameter of auras and reliability of Rhythm resource over-time. Using abilities deducts the current stack-value of Volume. Volume stacks may increase more in instances where Sona is required to be a more reliable team-buff.

legionnaire991 votes

sona counter play is all-in pre 6 and don't stand in a line

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