Aphelios needs to be toned WAY DOWN

only zhule·1/15/2020, 6:33:40 PM·45 votes·14,057 views

The guy simply does too many things and does all of them fairly well. One big issue is that most of his power comes from the passive aspects of his kit rather then something easy to fix like high ratios. Another is that since his kit auto levels, and thus increases all 5 of his abilities at the same time, he naturally has a stronger early game then all other ADC's. This might be 'ok' if he fell off in the late game, but of course we can't have a carry champion do that.

I suggest starting with some of his "invisible" power:

Nerf his poke, something simple like reducing the vision time by 1.5-2 seconds and changing the bonus range from global to just a large extended auto range. Like Caitlyn traps/net give.

His sustain should probably be looked into. Even if he doesn't always have access to it, a passive 8-25% lifesteal is VERY strong.

Much like his sniper rifle, i would suggest some minor nerf to his gravity gun. I would either reduce the slow amount and/or the duration of that slow. Then i would put a range limit on his ability to trigger his root. It needs not be tiny, but again global range on a core kit ability is just too much.

Now we get to the two biggest problem weapons. I have many issues with the flamethrower, First is that it gives a rather large bonus range with it's passive cone effect. Next we might address the fact that this weapon gives a passive cleave (a feat i don't think any other champion has). Then we can address the fact that the cone does 75-100% damage to secondary enemy champions hit, meaning that even if he is targeting minions he does impressive damage to enemy champions who walk towards him to engage. Finally i would address the active ability for this weapon, specifically the fact that Aphelios gets a free auto attack (again at global range) on ALL targets he hits, which also triggers the off hand passive of the weapon used. This means that this weapon will generally have somewhere around 200-1125% bonus attack damage in the form of free auto attacks. The thing to keep in mind here though is the off hand passive, not only will you get a free auto attack but that auto attack will do 1 of 4 things. It will mark the target again allowing for yet ANOTHER free auto attack, it will heal Aphelios for 7+lvl% per target hit, it will slow all those targets by 30% for the next 3.5 seconds (and let you gun swap for a root if you wish), or it will spawn somewhere between 2-5 (possibly more) mini chakrams.

Lastly let us address the train wreck that his his Chakram. I do not believe he can be balanced with a weapon that has a passive auto attack reset. We have seen how insanely powerful animation canceling/auto attack resets are on other champions. This weapon can remain very fast, but he can not remain able to break max attack speed, much less do so with as little as one item.

Finally i would address his turret. This thing is far to strong. Why does the turret need to benefit from his attack speed and crit? Why does a 'pet' need the ability to crit? With the turrets 550 range, most champions (even ranged ones) can not get close enough to auto attack the thing without being within its range. The turret triggers the passive of what ever gun Aphelios used to set it; so it's either giving him global range vision and auto attacks, healing him, attacking with a strong passive AOE cone, or slowing everyone hit (that he can turn into a root from global range). Let us also not forget that the turret can not be targeted until it's active, so even if you do know it's there (Aphelios can also leave multiple turrets if he has some set up time) and you do have the range to kill it without it attacking you, you are prevented.

36 Comments

GFREEMEN1/15/2020, 7:13:37 PM22 votes

careful pointing out anything game play related that is negative will get you board banned

FlameHalbrdOkido1/15/2020, 10:09:02 PM11 votes

Yeah the turret shouldn't heal anything but itself it also should use ammo for each attack, and its range should be shortened

F1uttershy20751/16/2020, 2:59:54 AM4 votes

well its even stated that the Pro's and High high high Elo perma ban him due to the fact that no one can really counter him.

but riot is probably still making a shit ton off his skin so he will keep it

iiGazeii1/15/2020, 6:44:00 PM3 votes

The damage on his turret is paltry. It's not hitting you with copies of Aphelios' autoattacks, each one is tiny.

His range is only global after landing something with limited range. The effective range is only slightly longer than the abilities he uses to get that mark on the target.

Tristana has passive cleave. Jinx kind of does as well. It's not unique to Aphelios.

Aphelios' slow is comparable to Ashe's slow. A 30% decaying slow limits enemy movement the same as a 15% non-decaying slow. Ashe has a 20-30% non-decaying slow with a slightly shorter duration. Ashe's slow (without crit) is slightly weaker early, but much stronger late.

Aphelios can do a lot, but he can't do it all at once. He doesn't have five abilities, he only has two at any given time, whereas most champs have three. His tools aren't better than what other ADCs get, he just gets to cycle between those tools.

i4got2pull0ut1/16/2020, 4:22:07 AM2 votes

There are some changes on Surrender@20 right now that reduce a lot of the healing on the pistol and oppression off the rifle.

I would rather see the champion be giga busted for a few patches as they find a state where hes fair, rather then just turbo gutting the champ and then they either never recover or the buffs to try and save the champ are too big and you are back at square 1 again.

Though I do agree hes definitely on the "Minimal counterplay / No way to kick from game" list, I would rather this process be slow, and all we can do is give feed back and opinions.

Elohaven1/16/2020, 11:33:02 AM1 votes

Kit is fine IMO. Only numbers need changes.

FSRER1/16/2020, 11:37:56 AM1 votes

I do not understand how you are supposed to play vs him. You can't do extended trades with him (except if you are playing 2 or 3 champs) due to his shielding and low cooldowns and you can't poke him down due to his insane health pool and health regen (Garen got his regen nerfed for a reason!). Late game he becomes extremely too tanky without needing armor items while at the same time being very useful by being able to take the enemy frontliner and smash him ontop of the enemy backline. I would nerf him by reducing his health per lvl and his health regen

Flawless Fetus1/16/2020, 12:10:08 PM1 votes

You made some decent points and some shitty ones. His early game is garbage when compared to most other carries. He's as support dependant in lane as kogma. He spends most of leaning phase trying to survive. Lol.

NelsieLisnen1/16/2020, 12:11:19 PM1 votes

Lol, chill, he isn't nowhere near Kai'sa or Xayah broken levels. At least he needs specific combinations to hypercarry teamfights, when fed mind you. In the meantime something like Xayah with 3 items can win a teamfight with a Q and 3 AAs. And her damage amp is up most of the time. I'm actually glad that a completely immobile, non invincible ADC can have so much potential. Maybe we'll get to see something other than a Varus in pro play at last.

Zullar1/16/2020, 1:08:29 PM1 votes

He does a lot of stuff and my whole team just dies. No idea what is happening. Character is too hard to understand.

VelvetCrotch1/16/2020, 8:46:17 PM1 votes

Riot: you are right! ->> basemovement speed -5

(just kidding but yeah i agree he needs nerfs - a decent Aphelios seems to stomp nearly every other adc)

TenhoQueRir1/16/2020, 9:27:15 PM1 votes

Even all the other champions having 1 Passive + 3 Skills + 1 Ultimate the game stills a lot broken, with this different one I have no doubt he always will be even more broken than anyone. For good, or bad.

McKuntalds1/17/2020, 4:04:07 AM1 votes

They'll release even more broken champions in the future mark my words lol. They'll release an aphelios with an ms steroid and dashes in the future, this is the least of your worries .

Trust me mate, uninstall while you still can. This insane damage and mobility bullshit will only get worse with the seasons

All the best McKuntalds

TheGreatNinx1/16/2020, 2:50:00 AM1 votes

Gravity gun only really has one use and that is to root. Compare to the rest of his kit his graviaton gun is the weakest one. So it needs no nerfs. If any thing the most problematic part of his kit atm is his scyth pistol , Sniper, and shakaram are the main issue. One heals by a shit ton, Other gives great range but it has to many reliable ways to proc that passive, And Shakaram makes your DPS go absoulute batshit crazy especially if he ever gets closer to which should be an ADC weakness but he actually gets even more DPS like wut. Now here is an interesting problem with nerfing the scyth. Last patch they made him even more squishy then what an adc normally is so if you get to him he falls a part like pieces of paper. (Now v.s other adc's its bit more unfair because they really don't gain anything by getting close to him and can't trade with him either due to the fact he gets scyth pistol every game to start) which you think okay Poke lane should beat him but then how often you can poke doesn't make up for the healing he gets early game from Scyth pistol while you wait for your cd to come back to poke him again. So to solve that problem I would recommend changing his starting weapons and push scyth to the last item to fix this issue so when he finally gets to it he would be around lvl4-5 depending how much ammo he decided to deplete and maybe nerf the max lifesteal down to 20%? For Shakaram I am not sure how I would balance this weapon, If it gets nerfed to hard it becomes the gun that says "please throw away at your earliest convenience" which feels bad playing and is bad game play design. Sniper I would make the missile speed slower on his q and remove the ult applying the passive and make it give more ammo for the sniper instead (maybe?) because the fact he can Q + Proc passive then ult you to bring you downl low enough to be killed by auto +passive damage proc is pretty oppressive since the counter play "is don't get hit lol" That;s my recommendation if we were to keep this iteration of Aphelios

Mordechaiser1/16/2020, 5:36:50 AM1 votes

no

Shiroyashayami1/16/2020, 8:03:08 AM1 votes

He has more in his passive than my champion has in his WHOLE KIT xd

Jeddy0171/16/2020, 11:09:51 AM1 votes

You know, is there any specific reason why he has global range on his Sniper & Grav gun Q in the 1st place? Is it some gameplay reason? Some lore or thematic reasons? I mean seriously, how often can you use the global range aspect? Unless Aph is using it against someone who can TP, they have a global ult or if Aph somehow TP away, he's not really using the global aspect. I don't think using it after anyone recall would work since the mark don't last that long....I think. The global aspect is just highly situational.