can we buff warding?

only zhule·Jul 28, 2018·41 votes·13,294 views

I know this has some serious effects on the game. But would it be possible to buff support items so that they regenerate wards? I'm thinking something like equal rate as warding trinket OR maybe 10-20 seconds faster. It just seems so counter productive to have to recall to base every 5-ish mins because you need to refresh your wards AGAIN. Like imagine if any other role had that same kind of issue, having to recall every time after doing your "job" so that your item(s) refreshed.

I would also like to point out that between , , and the worst offender there are A LOT of anti ward tools in the game.

52 Comments

AirKingNeoJul 28, 201829 votes

revert zombie ward remove duskblade clearing passive

that's all I want

The Last BalladJul 29, 201813 votes

Make Duskblade a active, so it can be wasted, instead of "oh i stumbled onto a ward. it will die now"

Warlord RhinarkJul 28, 201814 votes

The removal of Tracker's Knife and Sightstone, along with increasing the cooldown on yellow trinket were completely unnecessary if you ask me.

It's almost like Riot just wants warding to be the Support's job and nobody elses'.

My Waifu VanillaJul 30, 20182 votes

It's because the majority of the players don't utilize vision regardless of the tools available. With all the wards available in the previous seasons you could have the entire map lit up like a Christmas Tree if you wanted (which it was in pro play and why you had to run like double sweepers) yet people in the previous seasons would probably still have vision scores in the single digits.

Did you know that there was a time you had a trinket, could buy a sightstone, AND could buy green/pink wards? People still didn't ward.

Warlord RhinarkJul 30, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JyZILGnW,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-07-30T09:36:18.601+0000)

It's because the majority of the players don't utilize vision regardless of the tools available. With all the wards available in the previous seasons you could have the entire map lit up like a Christmas Tree if you wanted (which it was in pro play and why you had to run like double sweepers) yet people in the previous seasons would probably still have vision scores in the single digits.

Did you know that there was a time you had a trinket, could buy a sightstone, AND could buy green/pink wards? People still didn't ward.

It sounds stupid that the few that actually knows how to ward have to be punished because of the many that don't.

rtbf247626423Aug 5, 20181 votes

well i mean they do hate anything besides specific things in specific roles

OtterlyLostJul 28, 20186 votes

I miss pink wards... That's all, really. Just miss pink wards. Oh, and being able to buy greenwards. Yeah, I miss that too. :(

TheSingularityJul 29, 20184 votes

I miss not having a ward limit and sight wards in shop

KrullyJul 28, 20186 votes

recharagable sightstone

DuskDaUmbreonJul 28, 20183 votes

I don't know about it being the same rate as regular wards, or faster, but having some kind of regen mechanic on it would be nice.

Sire HippingtonJul 29, 20183 votes

i'd also like to have more options for warding on non supports. They've always talked about makeing supports not the ward bitch of the team, yet since S6 they have consecutively strapped all other roles from provideing good vision, with the one of the bigger hits beeing the removel of the warding jungle enchant while also tieing wardstone to support items. Though the bigest fail for vision was in S6 when they gutted the trinkets and removed wards from the shop. I'd really love to return to S5 in terms of vision.

BigFBearJul 29, 20181 votes

More options? You have trinket and you can buy control wards. What more? Do you want the whole map visible? Junglers need a chance to gank. In high Elo it's hard enough to gank cause lanes are always perfect warded. More ward options would make the game unhealthy.

remakoroJul 29, 20182 votes

what a load of crap. There were less options for dewarding and more options for warding back in season 4. And people still were able to gank somehow.

IllabetheJul 29, 20183 votes

I really want Tracker's knife back. Jungling with an incompetent team who doesn't ward key locations or at all really sucks when you are crippled out of vision by design.

Anin777Jul 29, 20183 votes

Honestly, remove Duskblade's ward detection but allow it to still have the tooltip showing when you're spotted. They should bring back ward upgrades, allow 2 pinks per players but return sight wards to the store.

AptestAug 6, 20181 votes

should be the other way around. The player should not be notified, but the ward should be visible for a short duration.

Anin777Aug 6, 20181 votes

But that doesn't stop them from oneshotting wards. This way, they know there are wards but they can't do anything about them without oracles.

AptestAug 7, 20181 votes

its ok if they can kill wards.

The problem is, they get to know when they are in vision. If they can randomly detect a ward once in a while but they don't know whether they are detected or not or whether they have the ability or not and basically have to do the guessing game, that leads to them standing in a warded bush and being clueless about it.

What we need is more instances of assassins standing in a warded bush and waiting, while being clueless about being in enemy vision, and then being engaged on.

Anin777Aug 7, 20181 votes

Honestly, we wouldn't need this mental gymnastics if Riot left vision the way it was in S5. Plenty wards that have really low CD late game and plenty ways to clear them.

ApollyonBainerJul 28, 20182 votes

That makes sense however.. Look at what the pros do. Supports have 2-3 control wards most of the time. Every other lanes has at least one as well (maybe not adc) but warding the entire map shouldnt be left up to only the adc. Thats stupid. Its a team game so the team should be held responsible for warding right?

remakoroJul 28, 20183 votes

Are you aware that control wards have shittiest vision range? 600 Vs 1100 on stealth wards. And they also give... different effect due to them being visible. It isnt exactly the same thing.

ApollyonBainerAug 5, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Are you aware that control wards have shittiest vision range? 600 Vs 1100 on stealth wards. And they also give... different effect due to them being visible. It isnt exactly the same thing.

It is a tool for giving vision and taking away the other teams vision. It may have the worst range but if you put it in the right place it does its job

5000000000000000Jul 28, 20182 votes

Tie the ward regen to gold income, maybe? Every 100 or so gold generated from support items, you get a new ward.

TonyTonyMordecaiJul 29, 20182 votes

I've been thinking the same thing with the regenerating wards on sightstone. Maybe just on the full upgrade so that I actually have a reason to get it.

SteelflameJul 29, 20182 votes

I would def not let it be full regen equal to normal regen rate. I'd say that it can regen wards as long as your other trinket isn't on cooldown, and you have built the upgrade. This would be balanced enough IMO, as it means that you are not actively sweeping.

LTK KoRoJul 29, 20182 votes

The more vision is buffed, the less plays are happening in pro play. Currently team can make entire quadrant of jungle+river near it lit. Vision cannot be buffed for a solo q players, because it'll have much greater impact on pro play than soloq. If you're going to give a solo player one more ward per 5 minutes, it means you're giving 2-5 wards to a coordinated team. We all remember know trackers was a mandatory smite upgrade, we don't want to go back to it.

only zhuleJul 29, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JyZILGnW,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2018-07-29T12:29:32.741+0000)

The more vision is buffed, the less plays are happening in pro play. Currently team can make entire quadrant of jungle+river near it lit. Vision cannot be buffed for a solo q players, because it'll have much greater impact on pro play than soloq. If you're going to give a solo player one more ward per 5 minutes, it means you're giving 2-5 wards to a coordinated team. We all remember know trackers was a mandatory smite upgrade, we don't want to go back to it.

except your not. unless you are suggesting that even the non support players are going to forfeit an item slot so they can carry around a support item simply for a regenerating ward effect.

I know this kind of effect can have serious implications in pro play, but i still think it's a fair option to consider with how active anti warding has become...... or more specifically item 3147 's ability to "oops i found one (or more) ward, better one shot it"

LTK KoRoJul 29, 20181 votes

Okay, but how do you want to buff warding outside of giving people more wards? Current amount of vision in pro play is basically perfect, teams can set up a good baron vision, but they have to forfeit vision basically everywhere else. Im all in for some kind of counter to countervision being buffed, but definitely no for more wards for everyone

only zhuleJul 29, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=LTK KoRo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JyZILGnW,comment-id=000f00000000,timestamp=2018-07-29T20:28:12.304+0000)

Okay, but how do you want to buff warding outside of giving people more wards? Current amount of vision in pro play is basically perfect, teams can set up a good baron vision, but they have to forfeit vision basically everywhere else. Im all in for some kind of counter to countervision being buffed, but definitely no for more wards for everyone

My issue with it was very nicely summerized by someone else basically "god i love how i've been sticking with my team for the past 5 mins and NOTHING has happened.... guess i need to recall to the shop to refresh wards and hope my team doesn't engage or get engaged on while i haul ass back to them"

My Waifu VanillaJul 30, 20181 votes

Everyone has to deal with that though. I could have IEdge in base on an ADC or something and want to buy it. If my team engages after I leave after not doing anything for 3 minutes that's on them for being bad. This isn't JUST a support thing.

only zhuleJul 30, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JyZILGnW,comment-id=000f0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-30T09:39:04.218+0000)

Everyone has to deal with that though. I could have IEdge in base on an ADC or something and want to buy it. If my team engages after I leave after not doing anything for 3 minutes that's on them for being bad. This isn't JUST a support thing.

Let me paint you a slightly different picture real quick. imagine for a moment that ANY OTHER class had to return to base every 5-6 minutes, not to heal due to a fight, not to buy items, simply because one or more of their items stopped working if not recharged every 5-ish mins. Do you think that the player base would have an issue if that was a running thing that all classes had to deal with?

My Waifu VanillaJul 31, 20181 votes

Except everyone SHOULD be recalling that often. That is: every dragon spawn, ~11 creep waves with about 4 cannons, or 3 full jungle clears. You can amass SO much gold that you SHOULD be spending in that amount of time unless you are literally just running around doing nothing for 5 minutes.

only zhuleJul 31, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Vanilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JyZILGnW,comment-id=000f000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-31T00:50:43.531+0000)

Except everyone SHOULD be recalling that often. That is: every dragon spawn, ~11 creep waves with about 4 cannons, or 3 full jungle clears. You can amass SO much gold that you SHOULD be spending in that amount of time unless you are literally just running around doing nothing for 5 minutes.

You are quoting the amount of gold one can generate in that time frame, i'm pointing out that other items don't loss 50% or more of their functionality. Also it is very possible to burn through your wards much quicker. 5-6 mins assumes 1 ward out at a time. If you have to ward 2-3 places at once (like say multiple chock points) you need to base closer to once ever 1.5-3 mins and spend about 20-30 second getting back to your teammates. That's a lot of down time that is limited primarily to a single role.

LuthianDelphiJul 29, 20182 votes

Its kinda worse atm than usual, just to many assassins running about so you end up having far more duskblades clearing wards than you usually do (Up to 4 per team if you got pyke, assassin mid, assassin jungle, and like quinn or something top although thats unlikely). Its an issue that will probably fix itself once the meta changes.

LeonerdoJul 29, 20182 votes

I'd be fine with that change with that, but not as a straight buff. The current level of overall vision is good I think, but it would be nice to cut out some of the "I've been sticking with my team for 5 mins; nothing has happened; now I need to base for wards; I hope my team doesn't engage without me" moments.

So yeah, adding like 1 ward recharge per 2 minutes, but removing 1 ward from the max stack would be a decent change, IMO.

only zhuleJul 29, 20183 votes

{quoted}

I'd be fine with that change with that, but not as a straight buff. The current level of overall vision is good I think, but it would be nice to cut out some of the "I've been sticking with my team for 5 mins; nothing has happened; now I need to base for wards; I hope my team doesn't engage without me" moments.

So yeah, adding like 1 ward recharge per 2 minutes, but removing 1 ward from the max stack would be a decent change, IMO.

This. 10,000% this. I hate having to base for wards every 4-6 mins, but i also admit that everyone having a sightstone level of vision would make the game super unfun in pro play.

Nightshade RoseJul 28, 20181 votes

Imagine if all items with actives had this problem.

remakoroJul 28, 20181 votes

Some kind of reward for dewarding might be nice. Like you kill several wards and get 1 charge on your support item.

My Waifu VanillaJul 30, 20181 votes

You already get like 30 gold for dewarding and killed a ward that has an almost 2 minute cooldown. That is more than enough incentive.

Crescent DuskJul 29, 20181 votes

People would buy wards if they had their own ward slots and weren't so costly.

BigFBearJul 29, 20181 votes

Remove Zombieward, remove Ghostporo, remove duskblade clearing passive.

IainG10Jul 30, 20181 votes

I kinda like Ghost Poro; gives junglers a slight tool against counter jungling, now that Tracker's is gone.

It should not have the current damage stat buff though, that was pointless and, frankly, stupid....

GrReaper96Jul 29, 20181 votes

Remember when people had to actually BUY wards?

Spirt Gun YuskeJul 29, 20181 votes

I DISAGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY , I think wards need to cost more , I liked the old warding system more , when Supports actually had to buy wards instead of being given wards for free on completion. Also I hate that pink is visible. There was a clear distinction between good players who warded a lot and payed for wards for the sake of the team, now every idiot has wards so there's lesser skill cap for supports, and SUPPORTS are too strong because of all the free shit they get + overloaded kits.

coming from a support player

Triumphant MindAug 5, 20181 votes

i totally agree with this :D

Pika FoxAug 5, 20181 votes

As a support main; no. Fuck no. Kill ward meta with fire and leave it to die forever. Wards are too good and it always falls to the support to do the majority of map warding. Kill it with fire.

only zhuleAug 6, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JyZILGnW,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-08-05T18:37:59.585+0000)

As a support main; no. Fuck no. Kill ward meta with fire and leave it to die forever. Wards are too good and it always falls to the support to do the majority of map warding. Kill it with fire.

Do you have a suggestion on how to prevent the assassin meta being 10,000% over powered if warding stopped being a thing / was greatly reduced.

Pika FoxAug 6, 20181 votes

Yeah; dont over extend and protect your ADC. And its not like you have 0 wards, people who arent the support also need to learn to ward.

theChibiTinaAug 6, 20181 votes

I don't think they should have nerfed the cooldown on the warding totem because vision is so bad as it is especially in early game before supports complete they're quest. However, the support item shouldn't changed. After completing quest you have unlimited wards that you only have to recall to refill which you should be occasionally recalling to spend gold anyway and you can only have at max 3 regular wards on the map. Since you have 4 wards on a completed support item, you shouldn't be using all of them at once. The reason they took away buying wards from the shop and put this effect on support items is because supports would be 20/30 minutes into a game with only their support item, health potions, and vision wards since warding was always forced onto the support. Currently if you want good vision then everyone has to be warding. They should reduce the cooldown on the warding totem and increase the duration of wards again though because early game vision us so bad and you can get oracle lens and duskblade so early in the game currently. At the very least make it so you can't kill wards with duskblade. Just make them aware that they can be seen. Or make it an active so they can waste it.

LeftyRaydyAug 6, 20181 votes

look riot tried to balance out ward changes in the past by removing the old pink wards which were invisible plus had true sight. They removed those because teams that were ahead just littered the map with these items and removed vision from the enemy team. Now we have the same issue, but worse as the opposing team cannot buy an unlimited amount of wards and with item 3147 being so popular and the stupid plants that riot added into the game clearing wards is so easy. if your jungle gets behind and then the enemy jungler is straight up in your jungle no one can help or move around due to the fact that your jungle will never be safe. There needs to be a way to balance the warding mechanics better because right now their is just not enough ways to ward. and if you ward and your ward is cleared well to F****** bad cause now you have to wait to ward or buy another pink ward, which since you are behind cost more gold just to have it deleted by the enemy jungler or laner.