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Riot should change Crit to a Tank-busting stat. Here's how (balanced way):

HalcyonDweller··4 votes·845 views

Crit is currently a damage multiplier. I think it could be changed to instead make it so that the damage is better at dealing with tanks specifically.

Marksmen already can build lethality to help them damage other squishy characters. They don't need Crit to help with that as well. Crit should have a specific purpose to be built, just like lethality does.

I think that Crit should be stat of choice for tank busting, that way it becomes less generically powerful while also offering much more clear reason to get it (besides just MOAR DAMAGE - which we already have AD for).

Any of the following changes might work for this purpose:

  1. Instead of bonus damage instantly, a Crit will apply a bleed to an enemy for a % of their HP (could be current or max HP, whichever is more balanced)

  2. Instead of bonus damage, it could grant higher % Armor Penetration for the attack.

  3. Instead of bonus damage, it could convert a portion of the damage dealt to true damage (or just damage that ignores bonus armor.)

  4. EDIT: Instead of immediately dealing increased damage, have Crit apply a mark or buff/debuff that causes the marksman to deal more damage in the future. This idea was too good to leave out, credit goes to Zen 9er in the comments below.

[{quoted}](name=Zen 9er,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zmgBZxJz,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-08-16T20:49:28.720+0000)

Good ideas. What about % HP that builds up like Fervor if you get a crit?

Critically Strike Enemies for a % of their maximum HP that builds up over time. 6/7/8/9/10% Max HP over 5 consecutive auto-attacks starting from your first Critical Strike. Stacks fall off after missing 2 Critical Strikes in a row.

Thoughts?

24 Comments

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

My main concern would probably how it affects the gold value of tank items.

Black Cleaver and Lord Dominik's Regards already serve the purpose of reducing the gold efficiency of armor significantly and this would simply worsen the issue.

Defensive itemization would need to be overhauled significantly.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Perhaps it shouldn't invalidate the gold efficiency of armor.

I can think of a few different ways that might work for this, but I'm open to more suggestions:

  1. Reduce how much crit chance characters can have (by reducing it on items).

  2. change Crit to be a first-hit kind of effect on enemies that helps to enhance the Marksman's future damage on that enemy. This would reward them for repeatedly attacking the target.

  3. Give Crit a cooldown, so you can't crit the same enemy twice within a certain time range.

Zenderana1 votes

2 and 3 will jus tbe broken on hard hitting crit adcs like draven jhin armor pen increase could go above 100% making armor useless and converting to true dmg will help but makes juggs and squishie targets have no counterplay

1 is iffy, might settle the 1 shot with crit but might make the adc be useless cus it didn't deal all its burst and cant sustain as much in the middle of a fight

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Great points, I understand where you are coming from with that.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Can you think of any ways to modify any of these to make them more balanced?

Zenderana2 votes

maybe something like ramp up dmg where every aa adds extra dmg from before like how turrets have a ramp up dmg, kind of like old furvor or how BC works but with aa

Zenderana1 votes

was thinking like 1st aa deals the standard ad value, next increases by half the amount of cirt u have, next increases the crit amount u have, and then 3/2 the amount, but only applies the bonus dmg to the champ that have these stacks

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Hmm possibly, personally I would do it a little differently, but that doesn't mean I think you're wrong. I like your idea a lot, and another user recommended something similar too.

I think it should be like this: Crits mark the enemy, causing your next attack against them to deal bonus damage.

But I'm not dead set on it. There are probably better ways to do it than what I've just suggested.

LethalTempo Jhin1 votes

Jhin ?

HalcyonDweller1 votes

That's a perfect idea!

jwebb01131 votes

adc typically are the ones who kill tanks as it is with armor pen, crit and physical damage with sustain damage

so we already have armor pen, in masteries, items and runes ( lethality ) we have % hp damage items, grievous wounds item 3153 item 3123 item 3033

alot of adcs have % hp damage, executes, as or ad steroids

the issue is adcs getting fed off of squishys snowballing and then being able to cut through tanks

but a champ who is 90% glass cannon with range and damage multipliers will do damage to all champs

HalcyonDweller1 votes

There have got to be ways to balance how their damage scales though. That's what I'm looking for anyways.

jwebb01131 votes

well most of the time their damage scales by game time/ gold income and experience/level

they are put in a duo lane and level slower then mid and top... unless they get a lead early due to a gank , a fight that goes their way etc... they all scale late into the game... where typically is 25+ mins in game

tanks typically hit their power curve mid game ish 14-18 mins in game where the adc dont have enough stats to cut through them

the issues is that outside of pro play ... majority of the players dont understand win conditions, power spikes etc and dont play around this in any strategic way

HalcyonDweller2 votes

{quoted}

-snip-

the issues is that outside of pro play ... majority of the players dont understand win conditions, power spikes etc and dont play around this in any strategic way

I wanted to highlight your last paragraph, but I also think your whole comment was spot on.

You're absolutely right. But I think that it would make the game more fun overall if entire classes were not relegated to being useless during certain phases of the game. Some champions should obviously still be weaker and stronger at different phases, ie. Darius and Vayne, but overall it should be balanceable for the champions to do their job without also doing other roles' jobs.

jwebb01131 votes

but that is why the game is the way it is... that is why there is clear differences in skill in elos its not always how fast you mash buttons...

the amount of thought that has to go into every decision and how it effects the game through ripples is what most dont understand. they just see X champ did this and Y champ didnt do this. or whatever

people think of the game as a game of checkers when its a game of chess

this is where you see the top tier LCS/LCK teams set up and play around timers, objectives, spells, cooldowns, gold income, power spikes etc cuz what they did at lvl 1 and 2 mins in effects what happens at lvl 6 and so on

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Ok, I think you're right, and I do not mean to disregard your statements here, but I still think Crit could do its job better.

That is why I am trying to get a discussion going about how crit could potentially be changed.

jwebb01131 votes

its fine... its just something people dont consider when they wanna talk about balance changes etc and sometimes you need to step back and see everything as a whole instead of super focus on one part.

and yes this is a discussion about the game its not a matter of who is right or wrong... its sharing thoughts and ideas

but taking your ideas into account and how it would effect the game and how its played needs to be thought out ... this is why balancing issue are more complex then what people realize. and partly why riot balances the game around higher elo and pro play.

and im for making the game better. but lets consider riot has thought of this... and that is why crit items such as IE has such a high cost ... its to curb and effectiveness of the item by cost where directly effects power spikes and curves or the game. by the same token this is why lethality was busted on some adcs cuz of the lower cost and the snowballing of the item it provided the adc to get ahead earlier ... where as assassins needs it... when it is used by a class which it was unintended for creates a balance issue.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

That makes a lot of sense, I had not thought about the overarching impact on the game until you commented about it. Thanks for expanding my understanding of game balance!

PixelPicksTW1 votes

The (general) purpose for crit is to give ADC's a relatively quick ramp-up in damage that maintains its usefulness in the late-game. In essence, the point of crit is not to bust open tanks, but rather to buff a ranged carry's damage enough that they remain relevant amidst their incredibly squishy stats. However, I would like to see some crit items that apply your suggested effects (for example, the first effect is very similar to Lord Van Damm's Pillager on Twisted Treeline item 3104 )

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Thanks for your feedback!

I understand that crit is supposed to give ranged carry's damage throughout the game, but I don't understand why that cannot be accomplished with AD.

I'm glad you liked some of the effects! Maybe even if Crit is not changed Riot could implement something like them in items (like you said they did with Lord Van Damm's Pillager).

Girard1 votes

[deleted]

HalcyonDweller1 votes

Right, I'm actually concerned about how Crit changes would affect champions with unique interactions with Crit, such as Ashe, Yasuo and Graves.

Not sure yet how to fix that, I just wanted to get these ideas out there.

King of TroIIs1 votes

Good ideas. What about % HP that builds up like Fervor if you get a crit?

Critically Strike Enemies for a % of their maximum HP that builds up over time. 6/7/8/9/10% Max HP over 5 consecutive auto-attacks starting from your first Critical Strike. Stacks fall off after missing 2 Critical Strikes in a row.

HalcyonDweller1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

That's a very interesting idea, and I like it a lot!

Something that scales up their damage each time they get a Crit would be a really cool way to make it more DPS focused.

PixelPicksTW1 votes

As it stands, with standard gold efficiency (stats given by cheapest base item with the stat) 1% crit chance is worth 40g, while 1 AD is worth 35g. This is all fun and dandy, but this means that since (assuming you don't have an Infinity Edge yet) crit increases your damage output by 1% for each 1% crit chance you have, AD is less efficient to buy once 40g worth of it does less than 40g worth of crit (for melee champs, the random chance of crit makes it less valuable, but the consistent basic attacks of an ADC means it is much more viable). Now, since 1 AD is 35g, we have to find out how much 40g of AD is. This can be found by using the formula (AD of base*(desired gold/base gold value)) which comes out to 1*(40/35) = 1.14 AD. In order for crit to be worth buying for an ADC, 1% of the ADC's AD needs to be 1.14, which means that an ADC should build crit once they have 114 AD (which for ADC's, usually occurs after buying a Blade of the Ruined King or Infinity Edge [which makes crits even more gold efficient]). All this to say, the reason to buy crit instead of AD on an ADC is because it is much more gold efficient for them to do so.

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