Am I imagining things, or is Baron a bit... easy?

Divewing·Aug 17, 2017·124 votes·4,460 views

Maybe it's just cos god forbid I've actually improved since I started, but is Baron dying really quickly?

I remember 20 minute barons were NOT a thing. Now I have games where we lose a fight, but their mid laner goes bot - which doesnt worry me until the baron scream comes through, and I'm sitting here like "Their jungler was at 25% hp, and we killed the tank last fight, how the face did they do that...?".

Just feels like Baron has become a bit of a bitch

100 Comments

OyddAWqJ5rAug 18, 201748 votes

Baron is suffering from damage creep as well

RavoreAug 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zbBcibEo,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-08-18T01:03:13.030+0000)

Baron is suffering from damage creep as well

Baron isn't suffering from damage creep because even in season 2 warwick could solo baron almost at all times.....what do you mean

OyddAWqJ5rAug 18, 201728 votes

Season 2 was a whole different beast. Lifesteal items gave disgusting amounts of lifesteal.

And they stacked.

My Talon build was godly item 3117 item 3142 item 3031 item 3072 lmao

Pierce The VealAug 18, 20179 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zbBcibEo,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-08-18T04:39:19.429+0000)

Season 2 was a whole different beast. Lifesteal items gave disgusting amounts of lifesteal.

And they stacked.

My Talon build was godly lmao

Things change a bit when you realize that that was basically the only viable Talon build.

AhristocatsAug 18, 20175 votes

LW not in this build,

sure

SeekêrAug 18, 20171 votes

At the time you didn't build armor other than zhonyas on any carries, pd/deaths dance combo also didn't exist

AhristocatsAug 18, 20176 votes

at that time, LW was total armor pen which was deadly against squishies

SeekêrAug 19, 20171 votes

Uhm no, LW was inefficient against squishies until late game. Flat pen is more effective against champions that dont stack armor.

AhristocatsAug 19, 20171 votes

LW was not inefficient against squishies

reduced total armor by 35%

squishies all had a base of 80 armor at lvl 18 and adc (at least in high elo) took GA as a last item

why are you trying to teach me how the game was before when i had 2174 elo back then

XxxLumberJackxxXAug 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Uhm no, LW was inefficient against squishies until late game. Flat pen is more effective against champions that dont stack armor.

It was slot inefficient not stat ineffecient

Pierce The VealAug 18, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zbBcibEo,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-18T12:16:34.586+0000)

LW not in this build,

sure

ADCs didn't build any armor.

And armor pen interacted differently than it does now.

Though reallistically yeah you build would be three bloodthirsters, youmuu's, and last whisper.

Infinity edge was more expensive and didn't give 100-125 AD like bloodthirster used to way back.

So all in all half your build was bloodthirsters anyway.

AhristocatsAug 18, 20171 votes

read above

LW worked on total armor

Pierce The VealAug 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zbBcibEo,comment-id=0005000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-08-18T22:22:39.961+0000)

read above

LW worked on total armor

True.

DivewingAug 18, 20171 votes

Yomuus gave crit chance though, and IE had a higher crit chance than now, so with the double AA from Q, critting on at least one of those was not unlikely

Pierce The VealAug 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yomuus gave crit chance though, and IE had a higher crit chance than now, so with the double AA from Q, critting on at least one of those was not unlikely

IE was still just not reliable enough. It was fun, but gimmicky. The youmuu's IE combo gave 35% crit, which wasn't entirely enough to justify spending more on an IE for 30-50 less AD.

UnboundHadesAug 18, 20173 votes

What if baron got a new ability every tIme it died so it gets harder and harder to kill it

OyddAWqJ5rAug 18, 20175 votes

It already scales with time

UnboundHadesAug 18, 20177 votes

Champs out scale baron unless u have a 2 hour long game which never happens

OyddAWqJ5rAug 18, 201711 votes

Which they should. Baron should became a threatening objective as in if the other team takes it, but when you can 2 man Baron with just ADC and anyone to tank it in under 10 seconds it becomes an issue of very little decision-making required.

SpecterVonBarenAug 18, 20173 votes

Well Riot decided to make Baron the standard step of ending the game rather than being a gambit to turn a level playing field in your favor.

nice tableAug 18, 201739 votes

riot: we don't want baron to feel like a late game snack ... baron is now a 20 minute snack.

CrisisEchoesAug 18, 201728 votes

Its an inherant problem with the new dragons. Mountain drake is actually rediculously busted. Get 2 of em and our paper pillars turn into feather pillars lmao

SinlaireAug 18, 20178 votes

3 earth dragons, an ocean drag, and a bit of exaggeration you can almost sit under towers and still come out net positive on health at this point.

TheDonarAug 18, 20178 votes

{quoted}

3 earth dragons, an ocean drag, and a bit of exaggeration you can almost sit under towers and still come out net positive on health at this point.

They stop lobbing projectiles at you and start lobbing item 2003 at you

WorryWolfyAug 18, 201726 votes

Baron thinks you're easy

DivewingAug 18, 201720 votes

Baron is correct

King of TroIIsAug 18, 201717 votes

Baron, along with Rift Herald and Dragons should not be stationary targets. They should move around the pit and river. When someone comes near it, it should run away like Scuttle Crab and do damage to do you like a Caitlyn kiting Darius. Only when you circle it with your team should it become more stationary. Get some AI on these mother fuckers and make them less like turret killing and more like hunting the monster in the river.

invisiblecat1Aug 18, 201715 votes

If you have an adc that isn't 0/9 you can kill baron at 20 minutes We really should be talking about how literally every champion in the game can solo rift herald at 15 minutes

FairyfleurAug 18, 201712 votes

As long as you hit the eye any champion in the game can solo it.

LXIIAug 18, 20171 votes

The herald is actually my biggest complaint. Thing is WAY too easy to snag for the guaranteed (outside of organized play) 1 or 2 turrets it takes for free.

KloqdqAug 18, 20171 votes

They made it easier so it didn't become impossible to grab. Now it's way to easy. If I got the chance I will grab it every game solo as a top laner because it's that easy.

invisiblecat1Aug 19, 20171 votes

It was never impossible considering you only needed 2 people 1 to tank 1 to hit the eye It was easy enough, but people I guess couldn't comprehend that

KloqdqAug 19, 20171 votes

Well it was less approachable due to the amount of time it took to take it and teh buff it gave was no where near as great as a dragon which could be solo'd and gave your team a massive advantage. Now the objective is not only easy, but also a massive lead.

HachiraAug 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

If you have an adc that isn't 0/9 you can kill baron at 20 minutes We really should be talking about how literally every champion in the game can solo rift herald at 15 minutes

now we're talking about the real issue the new herald is broken if u use it in a 3+ people group where u can make sure it lives long enough to take down 2 turrets. and since it disables the turret backdoor protection any 3 premades/coordinated players can just destroy the entire top lane which you you thought was pushing

PhantomGGAug 17, 201714 votes

it's not so much baron, it's more so new items and champions. Here is a list of champions who will murder baron

Vayne Tristana Kalista Cassiopeia KogMaw Ryze

and just about every champion who is simliar to XinZhao

if you see any of these champions on the enemy team, you have to be super careful with baron.

Tribbles FoxfolkAug 18, 20173 votes

{quoted}

it's not so much baron, it's more so new items and champions. Here is a list of champions who will murder baron

and just about every champion who is simliar to

if you see any of these champions on the enemy team, you have to be super careful with baron.

Vayne especially on that list. There's actually an exploit spot for Vayne near Baron pit towards the bottom as you come in. Tumble into it, there will be pretty much no animation, and you'll get the AA reset + Tumble bonuses. However, because of this greatly reduced animation, she won't get her AS impacted negatively like most Tumbles will do.

That one spot lets her cremate Baron like he was a glorified cannon.

nm1010Aug 18, 201720 votes

It isn't a specific location, any wall cancels her animation. Kayn can also use walls to cancel his q animation.

YaskamasandwichAug 18, 20172 votes

{quoted}

it's not so much baron, it's more so new items and champions. Here is a list of champions who will murder baron

and just about every champion who is simliar to

if you see any of these champions on the enemy team, you have to be super careful with baron.

Don't forget to add The Donger. I have not seen any other champion in a group destroy Baron as fast as that guy has.

SanctimoniousAug 18, 20179 votes

It's an elo thing. People in silver or gold don't know when to call it. lol, I remember doing 15 minute barons when it was available.

crzymdscntstAug 18, 20178 votes

Go play Twisted Treeline.

Vilemaw and the towers on there have the vengeance I wish SR's did.

Bob the ToastrAug 18, 20175 votes

I feel like they should buff it's initial damage and health and then make it scale less well so 20 minute barons are harder but you have to be more careful about it lategame.

Handin Out NapsAug 18, 20172 votes

You should be punished for not being in position to contest baron. If someone goes bot without tp when baron spawns, you should by all means just lose.

DivewingAug 18, 20175 votes

**THEIR ** midlaner

Handin Out NapsAug 18, 20171 votes

I know what you said. That just comes down to you not having vision or control over the single most important objective in the game. I was just preaching that it is the way it is because if someone goes bot while baron is up with no means of transportation, or another plan, you should just lose.

There are really only 2 ways to lose baron currently. One is that you are way too far behind to contest it. Second is you have no wards or control over the strongest buff in the game, and in that sense you deserve to lose.

On a side note what was the enemy team in that game you are complaining about?

DivewingAug 18, 20171 votes

Because I clearly overestimated the threat level of baron by himself.

Apparently he is just some bitch who needs a meatshield to absorb his dmg reduction debuff while an ADC right clicks him for 20 seconds.

Sorry that I gave Baron more respect than the scuttle crab, I'll try to remember that sneezing on baron is enough to kill it so I should drop all my 20 minute wards on him.

EeyoreAug 18, 20172 votes

They made Baron weaker at 20 minutes so that doing him when he spawned was possible - since, they reasoned, there was no point in him spawning before 35 minutes if no-one could actually do it.

However, he still doesn't scale as well as champions and becomes tower-tier very quickly - especially against late game basic-attackers and Brand.

After seeing the Star Guardian boss... I imagine Baron's kinda envious.

WacingTheFindAug 18, 20172 votes

Mountain drakes, damage creep and support items, that is what makes baron look easy as fuck, I've seen an adc take baron with just his support shielding/healing him (very hard to do at 20 min unless fed, but super easy later) or sometimes two DPS champions without tanks, because they can LS of baron. And ofc the tank+DPS combo or abuse cases like Xin Zhao, WW or donger.

However, baron isn't as bad as Elder Drake, that shit is so easy to do it's laughable.

rtbf225618241Aug 18, 20172 votes

I'd say it's just cuz there are so many regenerative abilities now plus shield mechanics and people just know how to juggle aggro. Not to mention that they can simply smite early to get the health out of it so it simply seems like it's easy to do but it's really hard pre-level 14.

ThilmerAug 18, 20172 votes

If the enemy team is dead, you can do Baron with 5 Sorakas.

Baron is supposed to be difficult when the enemy team is alive and can randomly appear in the river to kick your ass when you are at 20% HP and Baron is not dead yet.