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I don't feel outplayed most the time when I die to a Lee Sin

Divewing·Mar 22, 2017·143 votes·5,592 views

It honestly feels like dying to Syndra after she misses everything else but still kills you with ult. It's not that she's better. It's not that she's good. It's just her kit makes that kind of shit possible,

And I feel the exact same against Lee.

I realise balance shouldn't be dictated emotionally, but surely there's a point where being killed by, for lack of a better term, total bullshit, would factor into things?

I don't see why he needs so much extra power. I could probably honestly deal with his horseshit damage - even the ult-q 1shot combo - if I knew I could at least kill him first. But no, he has ward hopping, 350ms, synergises with simply FARRRRRRRRRRRRRR too many items, and for some stupid reason, gets away with building 1/2 tank, yet accomplishing both.

I ban this fucker every chance I get, and every game he isnt, I spend at least 20 minutes contemplating lobotomy via a ballpoint.

168 Comments

Nanuk PihoqahiakMar 22, 201757 votes

My problem with Lee is that he has a lot of decision making, but anything he decides to do will ALWAYS be on his terms.

He wants to fight you? He can do that whenever he'd like with his Q, ward hopping or dashing to minions. He starts losing the fight? He just kicks you away and retreats, or lurks outside of your range to pick another engage and finishes you off.

DivewingMar 22, 201732 votes

Pretty much, not to mention they have been very generous with the mark duration on his Q. 3 seconds is far too long, 1.5 would be infinitely better. Either that or have the cooldown start after 2nd Q, not the 1st. Or shit, just do both.

QuortMar 23, 20175 votes

Make it like Leona's E! You hit the Q... you're going in! >:3

Ulquiorra995Mar 22, 201711 votes

A hundred times this. Riot talks about how they want their champions to feel interactive - and Lee is anything but. You don't play against Lee. Lee plays against you however the hell he wants, and maybe - just maybe if he fucks up you get a say in the matter. And he still has 3 ways to disengage, so said fuckup has to be beyond colossal.

GayFluffyUnicornMar 22, 201718 votes

Same reason why people hate riven, yasuo. They have all the tools to outplay you and the tools to denying you any chance of outplaying them. What a glorious feeling it was right now as swain to just walk yasuo to death in my ult watching him desperately trying to get to minions to get away. I hope he learned something and never picks him again into swain.

Taliyah RocksMar 22, 201727 votes

You've worded the reason he's annoying better than i ever could.

Lee's going to be my perma-ban until they rework him.

EndlessSorcererMar 22, 201710 votes

He should be permabanned in a couple weeks when his new skin is released.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

5000000000000000Mar 22, 20171 votes

RIP blind pick

ˉˉˉˉˉˉMar 22, 201716 votes

Where the Blind will be picked

Troy242621Mar 22, 201724 votes

I don't care that Lee Sin doesn't have a high win rate, nor do I care his skill ceiling is one of the highest in the game.

I want to reiterate that R>Q>Q isn't an outplay, and it's akin to Annie dropping her R onto someone; literally anyone can do it.

UnboundCreatorMar 22, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I don't care that Lee Sin doesn't have a high win rate, nor do I care his skill ceiling is one of the highest in the game.

I want to reiterate that R>Q>Q isn't an outplay, and it's akin to Annie dropping her R onto someone; literally anyone can do it.

So? There are no champion combo's that are hard. Not Azir, not anyone. Stop being a baby

TwinkieProMar 22, 201710 votes

Gotta stop you on the spot for that one. Lee's RQQ combo is arguably the easiest for him to pull off, but try doing a full insec combo. Q>Q>Ward>W before striking enemy>R>Flash>Dont die because you no longer have any abilities but your E. Or rivens E>Tiamat Combos, each with distinct variance.

There are definitely some combos that no one can pull off right off the bat without practice.

Could not careMar 22, 20179 votes

{quoted}

Gotta stop you on the spot for that one. Lee's RQQ combo is arguably the easiest for him to pull off, but try doing a full insec combo. Q>Q>Ward>W before striking enemy>R>Flash>Dont die because you no longer have any abilities but your E. Or rivens E>Tiamat Combos, each with distinct variance.

There are definitely some combos that no one can pull off right off the bat without practice.

The fact that the most basic combo is still more than enough to kill off most champs should say a lot in this case.

YoungSirJ0eyMar 22, 201721 votes

{quoted}

350ms

This is the main problem I have with him. Vi had her movespeed nerfed for being too mobile recently, and she has lower overall gapclosing range, not to mention that one of her gapclosers is an ult. He should have 340 at most.

Overlord ForteMar 22, 201715 votes

Correlating Syndra hate to Lee Sin hate for that double-dip circlejerk benefit, an interesting play.

If Syndra's ultimate by itself kills you, she's either very fed, you're very behind, and/or a measure of the two plus no defensive itemization. In most practical scenarios early/mid game, she cannot do that without the prior statements being true. Late game she may punch through carry defenses if they only have one item with just her ultimate, depending on what type of defense it is. Hexdrinker/Negatron mean nothing at that point, though Maw of Malmortius may stop her, Abyssal Scepter (lacking the shield of Maw) also doesn't really stand up by itself. When combined with two or more defensive items (Mercurial, GA/Banshee, etc), it gets a lot less feasible for her to do.

But hey, what do I know

PePsiLemoNNMar 22, 201714 votes

Your last 3 games you played Warwick Lux Yasuo . I feel SOOOO outplayed when killed by them

ExcusemeFellowsMar 22, 201718 votes

{quoted}

Your last 3 games you played . I feel SOOOO outplayed when killed by them

Honestly, if you can't dodge Lux's slow ass telegraphic skillshots not accounting for other ccs + fog of war(that could be used for anyone else as well though), then you've got bigger problems.

PePsiLemoNNMar 22, 20176 votes

Her Q has a bullshit hitbox , her E is basically impossible to dodge and her ult is instant after a short delay

AMYS GRAVEMar 22, 201728 votes

her ult is instant after a short delay

What?

DarkRitualMar 22, 20176 votes

It both is, and isn't, instant. It's self-congradictory. Like Glubricant.

PePsiLemoNNMar 22, 20172 votes

It has no travel time -.-

AMYS GRAVEMar 22, 20174 votes

Right, because it isn't a projectile it is a delayed AOE. I was commenting on the fact that the delay means it isn't instant. Soraka silence field is instant, lux laser isn't.

LA LostyMar 22, 20175 votes

The Q is dodgeable, the E is not if she just places it on top of you and you have low mobility. Its decently fast and has a large radius, one of the easiest skillshots to hit in the game.

GayFluffyUnicornMar 22, 20178 votes

if you can't dodge lux skillshots 20 mins+ blabla That's the reason people hate lux as well. It doesn't matter, once she has lost chapter you can dodge 30 times, that one time she hits her Q she 100-0 you.

InsaneSamuraiMar 23, 20175 votes

This is a problem with many champs, and I also don't understand the logic in it. It is never fun to get 100-0ed with no possible reaction because you got hit by one random skillshot. Like you said, all those dodges mean absolutely nothing if the one random hit becomes instant death. It's infinitely more illogical on a champion like Lux, because at least with things like hooks from the support, someone has to be there to kill you while you sit through all the CC, she just does it on her own in one second from complete safety.

KrystleMar 22, 20177 votes

[deleted]

XonraMar 22, 20172 votes

And the dude is still being a hypocrite, so his point isnt invalid.

KrystleMar 22, 201712 votes

[deleted]

DivewingMar 23, 20173 votes

You the real MVP

resumedMar 22, 201714 votes

ward hops into melee range and turns my "difficult" kit into a series of point and click nukes out played

ZT XperimentorMar 22, 20176 votes

He should have the lowest base movement speed, since he has 2 low cooldown dashes.

KeevalroyMar 22, 20172 votes

That, and he's **BLIND. **

ThubanMar 22, 20175 votes

{quoted}

That, and he's **BLIND. **

You neglect how heightened senses work in a fantasy environment. Tenshi from Mortal Kombat? The Force? Anything Quentin Tarantino? Ki? DBZ? Narutardashians?

??? ... !!?

Zephyrous XMar 22, 20176 votes

i'd be fine with Lee if he could only ward hop once every 30 seconds . Also why the fuck does he have 350 movement speed

Dominick DestineMar 22, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zephyrous X,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HyxEqIQf,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2017-03-22T21:21:33.055+0000)

why the fuck does he have 350 movement speed

That's the real question.

Characters with extremely high mobility like Yasuo and Lee Sin should be saddled with very low movement speed to balance them out.... but no, both of them have very high MS alongside their mobility.

KaìjuMar 22, 20176 votes

Lee feels like a champ that every time I "outplay" him, it feels more like he just wasn't good. A good Lee Sin will curb stomp so hard, that he has little issues. Riot always says, "Well he has a lot of play out play potential." The issue with that is say one champion has one out play option, like one stun, a second champ has two out plays, a stun and a dash, and a third has three, a stun, dash, and a displacement. Champ three, if played well will always win because he simply outlasts the enemy with more outplay options. You literally "outplay" them until they have nothing left and are too spent to stop you killing them.

deadlychuckMar 22, 20174 votes

Yasuo falls into the same boat.

WinTheWarOnPantsMar 22, 20176 votes

Every time i dodge his Q only for him to ward hop E-R, I question why I even play this game lol

Troll for TrumpMar 22, 20175 votes

Basically Yasuo/Riven/any champ designed with the purpose of mechanical intensity to look good in montages.

SwaggyMcGhee420Mar 22, 20174 votes

Except all are easy to play around, unless you don't know what you're doing or they're significantly better than you.

Troll for TrumpMar 22, 20171 votes

Sorry, but they really aren't, for the reasons listed here

SwaggyMcGhee420Mar 23, 20171 votes

What do you mean? Those are reasons they may be frustrating to play against, not why they're hard to play around.

Troll for TrumpMar 23, 20171 votes

Those are the same thing.

You're only frustrated at that champ because it's hard to play around them. What else can you be frustrated at?

-Visuals -Voice Art -Spam Taunt(Zed/Nami?)

?????

SwaggyMcGhee420Mar 23, 20171 votes

No. Yasuo is frustrating to play against because he's mobile and can spam his q and e with basically no consequence. He's easy to play around, however. Just play passive early when he's likely to cheese you, and start Doran's Shield and Ninja Tabi.

ThilmerMar 22, 20174 votes

Lee Sin is too versatile and quite strong, and the only reason Riot doesn't simply rework him is that he has a lot of fans.

lilpokflufMar 22, 20172 votes

I mean do you have to feel outplayed every time you die for it to be fair? I don't play lee sin but maybe people just think he's a fun same way you think your favorites are fun.

AazzlanoMar 22, 20179 votes

....yes? if you died and had absolutely no say in the matter, and the opponent did nothing that requires any sort of skill, how in the hell is that fun or engaging gameplay? or fair?

PsybicilinMar 22, 20175 votes

You do have say in the matter though. You can choose to position behind your tank, you can cc him, you can dodge Q, you can summoner 4 , you can buy item 3102 , you can item 3340 / item 2055 to know where he is. I honestly think he's just best countered by smart league of legends and communication/vision.

InsaneSamuraiMar 23, 20173 votes

These are options, but they all are in regards to desperately trying not to die to him. As far as actually stopping him and shutting him down, apart from Lee making tons of mistakes, there isn't much to be done. You are either so fed you can cc and instantly kill him(in which case just about nobody is going to be an issue), or he's doing what he came to do and flying over a wall when he's done.

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