Who thought that camille Q converting trinity procs into true damage would be fine?

RexSaur·Dec 22, 2016·160 votes·7,893 views

There is nothing fine about 600~1000 true damage on a 2s CD with 1 damage item.

168 Comments

DracocrashDec 22, 201673 votes

I have a theory.

Riot are trying to create exceedingly annoying champions before they release 10 bans, so yasuo isn't perma banned.

Faceroll TacticsDec 22, 20169 votes

Yasuo, Camille, Vayne, Ivern, Lee Sin, Vi, Hecarim, Fizz, Poppy, Rengar.

They need to release a few more exceedingly annoying champions I'm afraid

It Hertz When IPDec 22, 201636 votes

You forgot to account for Vayne being banned twice.

GrReaper96Dec 22, 20161 votes

Honest question why is ivem that bad? I understand he can be annoying with his tankiness and ccs but i dont really see how he is someone worth banning compared to others. Is there something im missing?

Spicy RiceDec 22, 20162 votes

He has insane counterjungling capabilities, and his ability to keep his team alive and to force initiation makes him a top tier jungler.

WheatloafDec 22, 20162 votes

Preseason buffed the pants off of him. Support items + jungle changes combined to create a monster. He did get nerfed though, so he shouldn't be as bad as he has been.

TheHurricaneGamrDec 22, 201635 votes

There is no way she is getting 1000 true damage with just a item 3078 . Let's math it out.

Trinity Force gives 25 AD Runes will likely have 15 AD Camille has 120 base AD at level 18 Her Q true damage proc gives 80% total AD extra.

120+15+25= 160 TAD 120x2=240 (Sheen proc) 160x0.8=128 (Empowered Q damage) Assuming that ALL of the attack's damage gets converted to true damage (160+240+128= 528 true damage.) Not only that, but her Q at max rank has a 6 second CD, so she can never achieve a 2 second cooldown in a real game.

While I also agree that Camille is pretty strong right now, those numbers simply don't add up.

RogueWillDec 22, 201615 votes

528 true damage is rather quite high. Is irelia or master yi levels of high without needing her to buidl a lot of AD

agbudarDec 22, 20162 votes

ehm you forgot to mention that with 2 items like lets say item 3071 item 3078 she has 40% cdr so that 6 seconds is at 3.6 seconds

thats still pretty op if you ask me.

hell if morde would have had that kind of damage he would have been nerfed way harder then he already is.

BoundaryBreakerDec 22, 20164 votes

he did have that damage though multiplicitave q

MarshbouyDec 23, 20165 votes

Never use math here, just generalize, be wrong, and complain and you should be fine.

l MrD lDec 22, 201614 votes

i find that the champion is fine. Just learn to counter her or play her and work it out. When i played her i actually found against tanks it was a struggle

PhDs NutsDec 22, 20166 votes

[{quoted}](name=l MrD l,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zQZpNJQj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-12-22T16:14:52.979+0000)

i find that the champion is fine. Just learn to counter her or play her and work it out. When i played her i actually found against tanks it was a struggle

But when you get 1 item you're capable of insta-deleting at least 2 people on the enemy team anyway.

MissingKayoDec 22, 201616 votes

I didn't realize people only had 600-1000 health at that point in the game.

PhDs NutsDec 22, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I didn't realize people only had 600-1000 health at that point in the game.

Hookshot is at least ~150 damage and stuns for 1s W is either another ~150 damage, or 150+%max hp damage Q is a double cast AA reset that procs TF twice and deals 80-100% true damage on the second cast by then.

Yeah you're right, that's probably like 600.

MissingKayoDec 22, 201617 votes

And that takes around 3s or more to do. That's not oneshotting. That's ample time to react and/or do something about it.

PhDs NutsDec 22, 20164 votes

{quoted}

And that takes around 3s or more to do. That's not oneshotting. That's ample time to react and/or do something about it.

It's getting deleted.

And no, there's nothing you can do about it. If it wouldn't kill you in the first round, she can ult.

TF has a 1.5 second cooldown, same as Camille. The combo doesn't take 3 seconds, it takes 2 at most. If timed perfectly, you have 0.5 seconds to get out of range of the second Q cast after the stun wears off.

MissingKayoDec 22, 201618 votes

You do realize.... E has a delay on both E1 and E2 because of animation and travel? W has an inherent delay on the casting wind-up? And that Q2 requires a 1.5s delay after Q1?

Yes, it does take around 3s or more. And no, dying over 3s to a duelist is not being deleted.

RexSaurDec 22, 20168 votes

{quoted}

You do realize.... E has a delay on both E1 and E2 because of animation and travel? W has an inherent delay on the casting wind-up? And that Q2 requires a 1.5s delay after Q1?

Yes, it does take around 3s or more. And no, dying over 3s to a duelist is not being deleted.

Trying to defend your freelo too much.

Any top laner above plat knows this champ is massively overtuned/op atm, and the fact she has 50% + win rates by ppl first timing her in diamond speak volumes.

It needs nerfs like on the whole kit, the fact it has this broken kit while having darius level of base stats is absurd.

MissingKayoDec 22, 201615 votes

What...?

I was only saying it wasn't instant or a deletion by any means, like the user I was replying to was trying to claim. Please read.

LXIIDec 22, 201615 votes

Yeah I bet all those first timers in high elo didn't bother to practice the champ in an unranked environment beforehand.

RexSaurDec 22, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zQZpNJQj,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000100010001,timestamp=2016-12-22T16:38:18.349+0000)

Yeah I bet all those first timers in high elo didn't bother to practice the champ in an unranked environment beforehand.

Most of them dont even play normals.

LIke ive literaly seen someone who said it was legit first timing this champ idk what my abilities do in d4 ranked and it went 16-6-10.

Champion should be hotfixed, you have to be blind if you cant the massive issues this champion has with broken kit + numbers.

LXIIDec 22, 201610 votes

Did you also go to their house before that and make sure they've never played the champ or do you just take everyone on the internet at their word?

RexSaurDec 22, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Suit Thea,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zQZpNJQj,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000010001000100000000,timestamp=2016-12-22T16:42:05.541+0000)

Did you also go to their house before that and make sure they've never played the champ or do you just take everyone on the internet at their word?

Honestly i dont care about what you think anyway, anybody worth their salt or who actually plays top lane knows this champ is op, if you want to be oblivious thats your own problem.

LXIIDec 22, 201610 votes

I'm currently 5-0 with her in ranked, and average 14 kills a game while hard carrying. I never said she wasn't overtuned, I just said your points are all garbage and half truths at best.

Also she's just as good in the jungle, not sure why your entire argument is centered around top lane when Jungle Camille is 90x more annoying.

Sraeg2013Dec 22, 20167 votes

There's a huge number of champions that flat out invalidate her existence. Top lane or otherwise.

Sraeg2013Dec 22, 20167 votes

Maybe, just maybe after playing dozens of different champions some people are able to work out a new champion's kit durning a single game or two.

Needless to say, Camille's kit is really fucking straight-forward.

There are no hidden gimmicks, passives within passives or Chaos-knows how complicated combos.

Passive - AA a champion to get a shield Q - AA reset W - 1/4 of Darius' Q E - simplified version of Jarvan's EQ R - point'n'click like Jarvan's ult

You'd need to be really freaking dense to have problems with a kit like this.

ZedexDec 22, 20164 votes

Its pretty overtuned on top of her base damages and scalings tbh.

RequiemsfireDec 22, 201612 votes

Well I'm not sure if this will be enough to balance her but she has a set of nerfs focusing on lowering her base AD which in turn lowers her sheen procs and basic attacks, and her % AD true damage early on.

https://puu.sh/sXKiR/1eb0871b63.png

http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html

Jeddy017Dec 22, 20163 votes

Actually, those nerfs are already on live servers. It arrived when they added a bunch of hotfix nerfs & buffs to a number of champs.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-624-notes

MissingKayoDec 22, 20166 votes

I have never seen it do more than like 700 unless she built more damage than just Triforce and Ravenous. Replay?

Also, saying it's just a 2 second CD is misleading and inaccurate. It requires Q1 to be used first, and then a 1.5s delay, and then only gives a 3s window to use it.

Wild WesDec 22, 201630 votes

Only 700 true damage on one ability? Okay. Oh my it's on a 4 second cooldown that requires you to auto attack twice? Okay. [zombie-brand-facepalm]

MissingKayoDec 22, 20167 votes

Okay, then maybe get the fuck out of her range or stay with your team who can peel her? [zombie-brand-facepalm]

NoSkillWreckingDec 22, 201624 votes

You mean the range she can close with a massive gap closer and the team she can knock away with her ult?

Wild WesDec 22, 20165 votes

Why yes he does mean that.

Sraeg2013Dec 22, 201610 votes

There's still a 1.5s delay on the true damage.

Lord MalpercioDec 22, 201625 votes

{quoted}

Okay, then maybe get the fuck out of her range or stay with your team who can peel her? [zombie-brand-facepalm]

'get the fuck out of her 2k malphite ult range and stay with your team that she can ult away while making herself untargetable'

TheGoomyGamerDec 22, 201611 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord Malpercio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zQZpNJQj,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2016-12-22T15:47:09.696+0000)

'get the fuck out of her 2k malphite ult range and stay with your team that she can ult away while making herself untargetable'

If you all stay in fountain, when she dives you she'll only get 3 or 4 kills

CppLDec 22, 201610 votes

{quoted}

I have never seen it do more than like 700 unless she built more damage than just Triforce and Ravenous. Replay?

Also, saying it's just a 2 second CD is misleading and inaccurate. It requires Q1 to be used first, and then a 1.5s delay, and then only gives a 3s window to use it.

Only 700?? oh ,thats only darius ultimate on 4s cd...

RexSaurDec 22, 20168 votes

{quoted}

Only 700?? oh ,thats only darius ultimate on 4s cd...

Champion has

Darius level of base stats
malphite ult on a 5s cd at max rank that comes with a 80% attack speed steroid for god knows what reason
darius ult on a basic ability with a BASE 4s CD with a 20 mana cost.
% health damage on 2 different abilities and sustain
and on top of all that, a free kill button for ganks with ult

Ayy lmao.

Sraeg2013Dec 22, 20169 votes

Darius has:

Much more AoE damage
Infinitely stronger and easier to apply sustain
On-demand CC
huge AD steroid

MunchCrunchLunchDec 22, 201616 votes

darius is kiteable.

MissingKayoDec 22, 20164 votes

Camille is also entirely single-target for her relevant damage. W does almost nothing and is more for the slow, and the E AoE is extremely small. She's also far less durable than Darius nor does she have anywhere as much sustain.

Sraeg2013Dec 22, 20163 votes

So is Camille.

Moreso even, because she doesn't have a free pass with Black Cleaver passive being permanently on.

Spicy RiceDec 22, 201612 votes

How is she kitable? Unless you found an area on the map without walls, you be fucked

Sraeg2013Dec 22, 20162 votes

Tell me, do you consider Tryndamere kitable?

Spicy RiceDec 22, 20166 votes

Yes, but guess what.

They aren't the same.

One has a 660 range dash and a slow

The other has around double that range or more (No one has put up exact values), a stun, and a slow.