Certain Jungle based Abilities Seem To Hold back Champions

Professor Ward·Oct 22, 2017·35 votes·1,649 views

Some that first come to mind quickly are Nunu-Q Volibear-E Hecarim-W

Of these listed they all seem extremely gating when used in actual fights, and are all something that can be easily moved to a passive or added on to another ability without really much notice.

Its just not fulfilling to not be able to use q on nunu in a 5v5 unless theres a mon around. (most likely the reason hes non existent in my version of this game)

Basically my point is that, i personally would rather trade weaker abilities that felt more "right" to use in teamfights, for these jungle competent abilites that are non-helpers in teamfights.

24 Comments

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 22, 201725 votes

Heca W heals you for soooooo much lmao. it's the main reason he survives all ins.

DoaenelOct 22, 201720 votes

i disagree, as a hecarim main his w is extremely important not only in jungle but in teamfights as well, healing 20% of all damage dealt in circle is pretty good

Bard R FridayOct 22, 20175 votes

Hecarim W and Volibear E are perfectly fine in fights, on Volibear the slow is the only thing that ever lets him get to someone, and for Hecarim the healing is incredible in teamfights, it heals you for 20% of the damage your whole team does in addition to damage you do.

TwitchInMyPantsOct 22, 20173 votes

Nunu and Voli haven't had proper reworks yet, though most jungle centric abilities have more than one function - think things like Cho R or Elise Q that have different damage values on champs/monsters.

Nunu Q should probably be usable on more than just minions/monsters, I think giving him a mini bite if you use it on a champ would be a good way to give it some decision making for example. Maybe way weaker on champions, though a way to use his sustain in situations that aren't just counterjungling or splitpushing would be good. I think Voli E uses that idea a bit though the slow is fairly pathetic.

SpecterVonBarenOct 22, 20172 votes

Nunu's Q does 1000 true damage on max rank. Definitely needs to be way weaker for champs.

TwitchInMyPantsOct 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Nunu's Q does 1000 true damage on max rank. Definitely needs to be way weaker for champs.

Yeah I guess I haven't used him in a long time, forgot it went that high lol

Still even at 1/3 of that value and a similar heal level it'd be a useful trading tool and make him less of an "Anti-champion"

5000000000000000Oct 23, 20171 votes

If Cho'Gath can do it so can Nunu :^)

######and if that wasn't obvious, kappa

Sire HippingtonOct 23, 20171 votes

I think Voli E uses that idea a bit though the slow is fairly pathetic.

That statement tells alot about the CC creeped state of the game, cause a 50% aoe slow for 3 sec normaly would be all but not 'pathetic'. However, compared to the insane CC that supports and tanks offer these days, it feels like nothing.

XxxLumberJackxxXOct 22, 20171 votes

yup

JuzamOct 22, 20171 votes

I agree that Hecarim's W should be passive, and be changed to a spell damage shield, a snare/slow dispel, or some other defensive ability similar to Sivir's.

MorganFreemanBotOct 22, 201715 votes

{quoted}

I agree that Hecarim's W should be passive, and be changed to a spell damage shield, a snare/slow dispel, or some other defensive ability similar to Sivir's.

Er, wot?

You want Hecarim's passive to be healing for 20% of all damage enemies take within a certain range?

You think that's even remotely balanced...?

TwitchInMyPantsOct 22, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Er, wot?

You want Hecarim's passive to be healing for 20% of all damage enemies take within a certain range?

You think that's even remotely balanced...?

I could imagine that being ok if it activated for a limited period on your first auto vs a champion since most fights you charge in with E first anyway

It'd have to be more gated than it currently is for a thing like that to work, you couldn't just leave it up indefinitely lol. Lots of passives have CDs too.

NCBucketsOct 22, 20171 votes

i hate when my teammates play nunu for that reason

Snake PrinceOct 22, 20171 votes

nunu 's q slows attack speed, you can exhaust their adc twice a fight dude

Done25Oct 22, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake Prince,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zGaWumlP,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-10-22T20:42:01.979+0000)

nunu 's q slows attack speed, you can exhaust their adc twice a fight dude

Correction. You're thinking of his E. Nunu's Q is the "Bite a minion/monster for HP" ability.

Snake PrinceOct 22, 20171 votes

ah yes i forgot this ability , its just hidden stats for nunu and has no real impact yeah

ThunderneedleOct 22, 20171 votes

Evelynn Q refund

Evelynn W damage.

As soon as you need damage to jungle camps with a champ that should do damage. You know it's a shit champ. A good champ doesn't need damage to jungle camps in their kit because their kit is viable.

Sire HippingtonOct 22, 20171 votes

All of those are pretty strong in fight(voli's W would be great CC if we wouldn't have such a massive CC creep esüecially on tanks), nunu's has good passive effects and a really strong heal, though conditional. it would be great if he could consume heroes for very small damage to get atleast half the heal. (edit: forgot about the buff stacking up from eating monsters, that one should atleast affect big minions or, if implementet, from champs so he's not bound to the jungle that hard. However, it's well possible to take a camp as lane/support nunu every now and then to keep the buff running) Hecas is actually just as usefull for heal in lane and the most effective in teamfights...

There are certainly champs that are held back overall because of ther jungleing, but those 3 for me aren't the case, with nun beeing gray area. Things that allow really fast jungle clear ad then balance the champ around haveing a default gold n xp lead imo are what really holds back some champs like Nida or Shy. Because of their insane clears, they are balance in a way that they need to be ahead to be of any use, as it's seen as their default state. If they break even they basically loose, and if they fall behind they are just usless - which also means their endgame is pretty bad as endgame you are always even. This also mostly kills their laneing and atleast for Shy who has not much ganking preassure it really puts her into an ankward spot.

MorticianjohnOct 23, 20171 votes

Just make it 0 damage to champs but if used on the champ he gets a heal similar to what it would be on a minion

PoskeOct 22, 20171 votes

Hecarim W is essentially %delayed dmg reduction which can be countered with grevious

Note how 9/10 viable tanks have % dmg reduction, or abuse the stoneplate

CunkyOct 22, 20171 votes

But if hecarim's w got reworked then how could darkkmane make a full ap hecarim video

KloqdqOct 23, 20171 votes

Still could if he tried.

Jackom1Oct 23, 20171 votes

Heca's W is pretty good in teamfights tho. Use it before crashing into someone with sheen+E+Q, it will heal a lot. Of course it's not as good if you're already full health.

Totally agree on the other 2 though. But nunu and voli or a pretty high on the list of VGUs, which means that we can only sit and wait.