I have never in my life been bullied more than I have on league of legends. Not even close. I understanding taking everything on the internet with a grain of salt, and have been frequenting internet games, forums, etc, since the day internet was purchasable at home. But the utter disdain for fellow humans I find here is incredible.
I wholeheartedly consider league of legends an abusive addiction of mine, I want to play, but damn does it feel terrible when I do.
ModThe Djinn40 votesYeah, sometimes it can be really frustrating.
My recommendation? See if you can find a community to play with. A 3-5 man queue is often MUCH more enjoyable than queuing up with a bunch of random players, and gives you a big measure more control over the entire experience. There are quite a few friendly, welcoming, mature gaming communities out there, and it's definitely worth the time to find one. :)
Professor Ward25 votes[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AZj8AOEw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-22T16:53:25.058+0000)
Yeah, sometimes it can be really frustrating.
My recommendation? See if you can find a community to play with. A 3-5 man queue is often MUCH more enjoyable than queuing up with a bunch of random players, and gives you a big measure more control over the entire experience. There are quite a few friendly, welcoming, mature gaming communities out there, and it's definitely worth the time to find one. :)
Actually what I frequent is a 5 man group of friends, but everytime I get into solo queue(usually earlier morning) its a shock to the system how terrible the community is. I know at my age I should be able to let these things go, it just seems a little too much sometimes.
And thanks for the advice.
ModThe Djinn22 votes{quoted}...but everytime I get into solo queue(usually earlier morning) its a shock to the system how terrible the community is. I know at my age I should be able to let these things go, it just seems a little too much sometimes.
I totally get you. I'm only a bit younger than you, and I still use the mute button pretty frequently whenever something like that happens. I'm playing to have fun, not get yelled at for flubbing up my level 1 and giving Riven a kill!
Anonymity can be a hell of a drug to some people. :(
Mimr4 votesActually what I frequent is a 5 man group of friends, but everytime I get into solo queue(usually earlier morning) its a shock to the system how terrible the community is. I know at my age I should be able to let these things go, it just seems a little too much sometimes.
And thanks for the advice.
I think it's a good thing that you can't let those things go, that means you're not likely to do them yourself.
KaRniVooL136 votesas a fellow elder of the gaming community you would think that people only act this way cuz of being behind the keyboard and monitor because they are safe from any repercussions of their behavior ... and we both know if you talked or treated anyone like this face to face you would get put in your place and might lose some teeth along the way...
i learned that lesson long ago as a kid... run your mouth , talk shit, belittle others and so on and when that person has had enough you are gonna get popped in the mouth ... sadly we cant reach through the fukin monitor huh?
just wait for league to add voice comm in client
[zombie-brand-facepalm]
TheGreatRasputin9 votesThen you'll be able to hear the dickheaded 12 year olds shrieking at you through crappy voice mods about how bad you are, and that they're a Challenger smurf. More like Challenged Smurf.
KaRniVooL133 votessadly yes...
cuz i dont have 14 hrs a day to play league...
i have to work... so im not gonna be as practiced as they are on the game or in shit talking
sadly it goes back to parenting dont it ? think god ( knock on wood , hope the phone ring to go on murray ) that i have none of these lil fukers running around in the world due to me
PhantomGG5 votesActually what I frequent is a 5 man group of friends, but everytime I get into solo queue(usually earlier morning) its a shock to the system how terrible the community is. I know at my age I should be able to let these things go, it just seems a little too much sometimes.
And thanks for the advice.
my advice is learn to enjoy solo que, for when you play with the same people to much you will find yourself getting frustrated with habbits they have.
I say healthy league of legends is 50 percent with friends 50 perenent solo
Just my personal experience though.
Samura Yukisuna1 votes[{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AZj8AOEw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-22T16:53:25.058+0000)
Yeah, sometimes it can be really frustrating.
My recommendation? See if you can find a community to play with. A 3-5 man queue is often MUCH more enjoyable than queuing up with a bunch of random players, and gives you a big measure more control over the entire experience. There are quite a few friendly, welcoming, mature gaming communities out there, and it's definitely worth the time to find one. :)
To add to this, the /mute all chat command is often a good idea to use. It mutes emotes as well, so you wont have to see (and hear) that annoying mastery emote sound every 3 seconds while laning against that Katarina/Ahri/Riven/Yasuo/Talon/Jhin/Thresh
Professor Ward4 votes[{quoted}](name=Samura Yukisuna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AZj8AOEw,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-07-22T16:58:36.934+0000)
To add to this, the /mute all chat command is often a good idea to use. It mutes emotes as well, so you wont have to see (and hear) that annoying mastery emote sound every 3 seconds while laning against that Katarina/Ahri/Riven/Yasuo/Talon/Jhin/Thresh
Not to come off as a full douche but, its also possible to plug your ears and walk away while someone bullies you in person, most people just aren't the type to do that.
I will try to push the mute button more than letting it continue though, this is probably the best advice.
5050BS10 votesAs a 40 year old I mute and report any bad behavior. Dont get into it with them just mute and report them.
If the enemy team is the issue then wait and see if you can ask your team to do the same.
Reporting is the only way we can punish this behavior and sadly Riot is not good at following up with it. So we just have to keep using the system they have in place.
Also if in champ select one of your team is super Toxic you might want to think about dodging the match. Saves what will most likely be a loss and the headache. Also there are a lot of MOBA games out there that are not half bad. If you have a 30m wait just go play one of those. Or spend time with the Wife/Huby and kids.
PaladinNO4 votesAs a 40 year old I mute and report any bad behavior.
As a 32 year old, I do exacly the same. Getting into it with them is both a waste of my time and distracting for the ones who has nothing to do with it. And causing distractions is something that is reportable on its own.
Sadly, I don't think the reports do anything, but even with toxicity in champion select, I don't dodge. If I get a feeling this game is already list before the loading starts, I still pick something solid for my role, but go into the game with a more chilled, not caring what happens-approach. "Emotionally detached", I call it - I won't play my best in that mental state, but I won't let anything get to me either.
Who knows, maybe I can learn something with my champion from the defeat.
Sugar Momma2 votesSomething you see a TON in higher Elo is dodging. Dodging because of toxic teammates is but one of many reasons. I've taken well over an hour to get into a ranked game before between queue times + dodges.
What this should tell you is dodging in a situation where you know you're most likely going to lose is actually a SKILL that is conducive to climbing (as sad as that sounds, it is true).
Scary Door8 votesThe worst part about it is that Riot never responds to these types of threads, they never offer any insight as to what is being done, they don't ever acknowledge that players are becoming increasingly frustrated with the toxicity of the community. I really don't understand that part at all.
Riot is seemingly keeping their heads in the sand and keeping the playerbase in the dark---as usual---with regard to this issue. Things were never this bad during the Tribunal system. While the fancy automated system may catch the most egregious or idiotic offenders, it seems to be doing nothing for the run-of-the-mill toxicity that permeates this game.
ModAcademy Kayn5 votesI'd like to see how you'd police and regulate human being's behavior on large scale. Also, the Tribunal was during a time when the community was much smaller
Cavesloth1 votesSo if there are more players now, one would assume there's more people who would participate in the tribunal. Maybe not at a perfectly linear scale of course, but they'll never know until they try it again.
ModAcademy Kayn3 votesThe main question is, what is the Tribunal supposed to do and accomplish? Is it only the questionable cases that need more deciding on? Or is it a straight replacement for the Automated system? At that point, what is deemed questionable, and why do we need X many people deciding on something, than just having someone get reported, the case is seen by manual review, and then handled the same way.
Hell, the mini-tribunal in Player Behavior seems to be aiming that way, asking the community what it's standards are, and then using those standards on manually reviewed cases, which are a lot of the cases. Remember, reports flag games for review, the automated system helps detect consistent use of toxicity and feeding. The two go hand in hand, and it's not just the Automated system.
Scary Door5 votesAlso, the Tribunal was during a time when the community was much smaller
When I started playing in 2011, League of Legends was a tiny little community of just 15 million players. (Source: https://www.engadget.com/2011/07/26/league-of-legends-surpasses-15m-registered-players-1-4m-play-da/ ).
Before the Tribunal was put into "recess" (permanently) it was in 2014 and League had 27 Million daily players worldwide. (Source Riot Games, Jan. 27, 2014).
You won't ever keep your playerbase if the community continues to remain so toxic. Riot hasn't released official numbers with regard to it's playerbase since 2014, leaving many of us to question 'why?' The answer is likely because the playerbase has declined substantially since Season 5. There can be no debate that the number of ranked players has dropped off in each of the past 3 seasons. In North America nearly 2.4 million accounts participated in the ranked ladder last year, more than 3 million the year before and this season only 1,534,138. (Source: na.op.gg)
This doesn't conclusively prove that fewer people are playing League of Legends, it only shows that fewer people are playing ranked games, however based upon longer queue times and Riot's silence regarding the playerbase numbers we can safely presume that fewer people are playing the game.
Toxicity is likely a factor in why fewer people play. So, Riot's silence on the topic is really only hurting them more than anything.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesYou suggest that because Riot refuses to show evidence that their playerbase isn't shrinking, that obviously their playerbase is shrinking. Not sure about which one, but pretty sure there's a flaw in that reasoning somewhere.
Scary Door2 votesTHere really is no flaw to the logic. Especially because I showed evidence of fewer people playing ranked games. I also said that it does not "conclusively" prove anything, but when combined with the significant increase in queue times along with Riot's coincidental silence on number of players, we can logically conclude that the playerbase is hemorrhaging.
There are multiple reasons for the game to be losing players---but certainly the behavior of the community is near the top of the list; whether it's intentionally feeding, AFK, trolling, outwardly toxic speech, this has definitely driven some of my friends from the game.
ModAcademy Kayn2 votesFewer people playing Ranked games can have other factors, such as balance issues. The que times really aren't that long unless you're in High elo.
And yes, you're saying that if Riot doesn't show proof that proves otherwise, that you're correct. I could say that you enjoy fisting horses, and since you haven't shown me any proof that you don't, I guess I'm correct.
Scary Door1 votesFewer people playing Ranked games can have other factors, such as balance issues. The que times really aren't that long unless you're in High elo.
Except balance has been a constant issue. Queue times, even on weekends at peak hours have increased... I waited almost ten minutes to get into a normal game the other day and my Normal MMR is mid Gold. Even ARAM queues have increased significantly.
Longer queues and fewer ranked players each of the last three seasons (this is not a new phenomenon) poing to trouble---my friends list has virtually disappeared the last few seasons also. It used to be that I had 200-250 people online at any given time, now it's around 10. That's quite a dropoff. Even people I've added the last couple of seasons aren't playing anymore.
I get it, you're a fan---you don't believe the Titanic can sink, I understand that this is unsettling to you, but I'm trying to point out that there are serious problems that Riot should address and this topic of behavior is definitely one of them.
The New player experience is also complete garbage and if you aren't getting new players then your game will die off eventually.
And yes, you're saying that if Riot doesn't show proof that proves otherwise, that you're correct. I could say that you enjoy fisting horses, and since you haven't shown me any proof that you don't, I guess I'm correct.
Except there's a difference between what I've done and your oh-so-elegant analogy; I've shown objective evidence that there is a decline in the number of active players, you (nor Riot) has shown any evidence that refutes that claim. If one side has evidence and the other side doesn't it's kind of a default win for the guy with the evidence... that's kinda how it works there chief.
You don't see Blizzard running out there and openly publishing their WoW sub numbers like you used to either.. same with any video game company that has a product in decline---really any company in general.
But, hey, keep your head in the sand if you like, some of us actually care enough that we want ot fix the issues that this game/community has.. that's what a real fan does, by the way, not simply being a yes-man for the company.
PaladinNO3 votesQueue times, even on weekends at peak hours have increased..
This may be a conspiracy theory on my part, but I believe this is part of why Tencent won't release player numbers anymore. If they did it now, and it showed a vast decline since last time (2012/2014, not sure), people may panic and mass-jump ship while they still can, resulting in further decrease in the playerbase.
Not to mention people wouldn't buy RP anymore, if they feared the servers were going to be taken down in few years time.
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesThe only evidence you've shown is numbers from 2014. You have no other proof to show than that, with nothing to prove in your claim but "If they don't show evidence otherwise, I'm right," which I now know is the Burden of Proof fallacy.
You're saying since Riot can't/isn't showing proof that disproves yours, that you're correct. That's not right. You may have some old stats going for ya, and some interpret-able new ones, but you can only speculate, you have no proof to show that you are correct in your hypothesis.
Hell, the guy above me offered a rebutal to your claim, yet you ignore him seemingly because it disproves your point.
Scary Door2 votesThe only evidence you've shown is numbers from 2014. You have no other proof to show than that, with nothing to prove in your claim but "If they don't show evidence otherwise, I'm right," which I now know is the Burden of Proof fallacy.
You mean other than the raw numbers of players participating in ranked from the last three seasons taken DIRECTLY off of the League API. You mean other than actual numbers from RIOT that show player participation I haven't offered anything? Okay.
As I said, and you can't/won't address: Ranked participation is down, that's indisputable as I quoted earlier. Queue times are up, also indisputable. My friends list has 10 active players as we speak out of a possible 259, whereas I used to have 200+ active at once... now /that/ is anecdotal, but others have reported the same thing. You put the puzzle pieces together and it spells a problem.
I'm being objective about it, you're just saying "no". That's not really an argument.
As for the guy above you. I looked for the mysterious interview that he speaks of and was unable to find it on google. Which means it either is difficult to find or does not exist, I did find numerous sites that speculate regarding the statistics including Forbes, but no solid evidence.
Again, I've provided evidence, objective numbers both current and past and you have shown nothing except for saying "no, that's not true" or "just because all the evidence points to a specific conclusion doesn't mean that's the truth".
You clearly should change your name to James Ismay---it suits you better.
Leetri4 votesThey revealed they had 100 million unique monthly players in September of 2016 in an interview, so they still grew after S5. I doubt it's gonna get much larger, pretty much everyone on earth that's interested in playing is playing it.
10 fps2 votesHow do you expect Riot to control people?
Scary Door2 votesIt's actually really easy. A concept I call Ghost-perma-mute.
How it works is simple; if a player cannot control themselves and repeatedly uses chat as a toxic tool, then Riot should put their account into a permanent mute, except they don't tell the player that they are muted and they still allow anyone on the player's friends list to see their chat. Thus, ghost-perma-muting.
**Why is this a good alternative to permanent bans? **
Players have to make new acconts and potentially damage new players when they are permabanned for toxicity, but if they are muted without their knowledge they can still flame away at their teammates but no one will actually see it. The vast majority of those that receive such a penalty won't even know it's happened to them and those that do won't really be able to do anything about it.
What's to stop them from trolling in other ways?
Absolutely nothing, except that they will be permanently banned if they so chose to engage in the act of intentional feeding, griefing or other such measures.
This is also where we reincorporate the Tribunal system to deal with the type of offenses that the automated system does not have the means to detect.
This is not the panacea, it doesn't not cure League of all of it's woes, but it is a step in the right direction, would be very easy to implement and would quickly and effectively reduce toxicity.
The best part is, I'm giving Riot this idea free of charge... I know... how generous of me, all I ask is for a humble thank you when the community improves as a result. You're welcome, Riot.
Raven Redeemed2 votesFor someone who wants a humble thank you are not very humble yourself.
Anyway, I don't see how this would be much more effective than chat restriction aside from the fact that it carries a perma penalty from the get-go. What your system does not account for is player reform and genuine team communication for the guilty party. Some people have a bad period in their life and (wrongfully) take it out on others. Their fault, but it's human nature and thus understandable. Should that person and their future teams lose the ability to play effectively together for all time due a communication handicap, or lose all the progress and money they spent on an account? Maybe if you think it is so black and white. Some people start black (angsty teen who didn't learn about respect and compassion?) and some drift into the black for a time (lost a spose and is angry?), but those people can and often will reform, especially when they receive push-back like from something like a chat restriction. Just as the US justice system has different levels of punishment, so does Riot's current player behavior system.
In addition, you did not provide any method of accurate and swift detection system for player behavior which I believe is the real issue. Your system won't do anything if it does not find the culprits. Riot's system is actually very effective at ban or reform when it catches people. Unfortunately to detect the majority of offenders in the game without false positives (much much worse than false negatives) in the multitude of league games, you'd need some type of fuzzy-logic near AI program which is not feasible.
Now you might say the Tribunal is the answer. It may be. I don't know for sure which leads me to think you do not either. I would wager Riot's professional player behavior team which include licensed psychologists probably have a good reason for not bring the system back. Perhaps it resulted in too many false bans. Not to mention that an automated system still has to detect and weed out false reports in the first place.
You mentioned in your original post Riot does not let the community know what is going on or seem to be working to reduce toxicity but you either forgot or omitted the fact that Riot told us about the development honor system ahead of time which actively combats player toxicity. I agree it would be nice to hear more from them, but I am not surprised when we don't. I am continually impressed with how much Riot discusses (which takes time) what they are working on with their community, more so than any company I can think of. It seems like this community thinks they have the right to discus all developments with Rioters because they will actually do that from time to time. It requires company time, false expectations and premature community backlash, and commitment to something that maybe should not be committed to (see Riot's premature discussion of Ao Shin for example).
That's my two cents anyway. Sorry for the long post.
Hexs Fortune6 votesI mute all nearly every game I play. Chat is mostly used to complain, taunt or beg for attention.
Mimr5 votesAhh, so I'm not the only old fart (31) here, what a relief.
Anyhows, if someones' annoying you, just type "/mute all" in the chat, it'll completely cut off any incoming chat communication. I know raging and flaming tilts me so I just turn it off so I can focus on the game again. As has been said, pings are enough to communicate anything relevant to the match with.
Still, not everyone is an asshole though. After my last match I got a compliment from the enemy Jhin that I focused him down and killed him in two crucial teamfights (I was Udyr), so that was nice.
KaRniVooL133 votes[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
nope your not the only old fart here
Master Noct5 votesBeing nearly 21 years old now, I don't have a fondness for children (well, those that behave like spoiled brats at least).
And even so, people around my age, if they act like dicks, I simply shake my head, mute, and report.
Got better things to do in matches, lol.
TekkenPlayer4 votesAs an Apache attack helicopter, I understand your pain. What I learned is that you should never stop spinning, ever
Winters Dawn3 votesWhat I find interesting is people dub league as the most toxic community. I dont believe this. Ive been playing Xbox live for example since the original Xbox. I am now 25. I have heard rages through a headset that would make you think the person was schizophrenic. Internet toxicity is not new, its not worse in league than it is in other games.
And honestly people are not generally like they are over the internet. I would never tell someone they are dumb as shit in person. Not because I'm "weak" or "scared" but because I'm polite and I understand socially acceptable standards. But over the internet thise social standards are hidden because you have anonymity behind the computer screen.
Eternal7913 votesI think part of why people think League has a more toxic community than other online games is because it's kind of the biggest community for a game. So naturally there's going to be more toxic people playing League than on games with less players.
And if someone actually acted as rude as they do online, in person, I probably would tell them how stupid they are before walking away, whether its right or not. I've got zero tolerance for that kind of behavior in or out of a game.
Sraeg20135 votesNow imagine League had a voice chat.
Mimr3 votesNow imagine League had a voice chat.
That'd probably sound something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-f2E-grfjo
PaladinNO2 votes"The espace button..."
Here's a true story: We actually had one such person frequent the local LAN party. He brought a desktop and usually 3-4 keyboards with him. But then he was gone for a couple years, before he suddenly came back and insisted he had calmed himself.
But sure enough, into the second day, we heard his fist impact his keyboard again - except this time, he hadn't brought a desktop PC...he had brought a laptop.
We heard a loud "NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!", then crying, before a crunching sound (him forcing the lid closed - likely crushing the screen as well), and the sound of laptop keycaps dropping down on the floor as he tearfully ran out of the building, and I don't recall ever seeing him on a LAN party again after that.
Sraeg20132 votesMultiplied by every "ally" on your team.
Randomonium3 votesI just laugh at people who are toxic. If they blow a video game so out of proportion that they are telling people to kill themselves over it then its pretty obvious that they are either immature or haven't really accomplished anything with their lives. Its a game after all. I can understand being pissed if you lose your job or you're getting evicted from your house or your spouse is cheating on you but if you get THAT worked up over someone missing an ultimate or getting caught out in a team fight then that's just pathetic. Its equivalent to someone breaking a nail and then calling 911 saying that they are dying.
When you put it in that kind of perspective its hard to take toxic people seriously. That's why I laugh at them.
SzGamer2273 votesThe mute feature is a wonderful thing. I mean unless you're actually sadistic or legitimately crave deprecation I highly recommend employing this feature.
FearlessCreator3 votesThis post is also on the incorrect board.
Linna Excel4 votesPerhaps, but it's kind of detrimental to gameplay when someone is being toxic to you or a teammate.
The easiest way to lose is to attack teammates IMO.
BØLT3 votesFully free games, and eSport games especially, are filled to the brim with children. There are games I've played where the average player age is 30-50 but this is simply not one. For what its worth I find very nice people in ARAM 9/10 of the time, the 'rift' seems to be where only the most angsty-wannabe-elitist kids dwell in 2017. League currently attracts much more children than other games and even when you log in you will see children on the home-screen from these funded teams and such.
(I also left all chat permanently off in the client settings, that is the DEFAULT for a good reason. I am more interested in easily finding timestamps for skills being pinged anyway)
Chønklord3 votes32 here, been playing since s4.
I'm always still amazed by the sheer immaturity and callous disregard for social niceties or even basic human decency shown by so many players in league.
For reference, I played (the original) counter-strike fps game for 6 years competitively (pro scene), and never met this level of toxicity and pure childishness in that time.
What especially gets me is the weak-minded attitude of so many league players giving up on perfectly winnable games -- sometimes they give up completely even before the game has started !
Carteeeer1 votes[deleted]
AbsoluteSadman16 votesWhen you just prove the point of the OP
Digielf1 votesYou can just play against bots once per day to get your 190 IP from daily victory and you wont encounter any pvp toxicity at all, its fast, easy and a lot of IP
PaladinNO3 votesThat's hardly the point, is it. Merely avoiding the toxic people doesn't deal with the problem in any way. For sensitive people, that may be a solution (though unfortunate), but personally I won't compromise on a game's features and offers just because someone can't hold their tongue.
Also, I find there's not much less toxicity in AI games. Ping spamming is frequent, and I see "gtfo of my lane, you ######!!!!!!" (or similar) more often than I would've thought possible.