It Would Be Cool if the Broadcasters Could Say a Phrase Other Than "Ardent Censor"

Professor Ward·Oct 15, 2017·80 votes·3,170 views

As a support main, its a joke. No item should ever define the meta as hard as ardent censor has, and especially for this long. Im not sure whats going on, but you know its been too strong for too long, and the baby taps have done nothing to deter me from it.

Lets discuss, this item alone has turned botlane into Janna, raka, lulu, etc. With a RELIC SHIELD AD RUSH, GP10RUNES ON THE SUPPORT, and the absolute forfeiting of sightstone early, huh?

Come on guys. Come on. I love this item and the support role, but when the Attack damage carry starts support items because its stronger than rushing thier own, its probably gotten out of hand.

57 Comments

PePsiLemoNNOct 15, 201723 votes

When you don't realise that live patch is 7.20 while worlds is played on 7.18.

Handin Out NapsOct 15, 20177 votes

When you don't realize ardent is still broken and bot lane is still doing the same exact shit.

Professor WardOct 15, 20178 votes

{quoted}

When you don't realise that live patch is 7.20 while worlds is played on 7.18.

still the second most commonly purchased full item in the game behind Infinity edge. Even after its nerfs.

Jesus Is My KingOct 15, 201713 votes

"As a support main, its a joke. No item should ever define the meta as hard as ardent censor has, and especially for this long. Im not sure whats going on,"

not gonna lie, that was really well put. i guess what caught my eye is that its the truth.

UnboundHadesOct 15, 20172 votes

he didnt say anything at all what are you talking about he just said that prenerf ardent thats in lcs is broken which it was and is completely ignoring the fact that it got nerfed

statelesskillerOct 15, 20173 votes

it got "nerfed" if by "nerfed" you mean they removed the onhit heal (which was pointless anyways sure it can be argued that healing was very good but who cares when adc's have life steal that more then makes up for that less healing when you see the next point i make) and instead gave it MORE attack speed and on hit damage late game,(10% and 10 more) while shaving off 5% attack speed and 5 onhit damage early . . . sure . . . yeah "nerf"

UnboundHadesOct 15, 20171 votes

and? the op was complaing about the prenerf ardent (i know its still broken) because the casters where only saying ardent when it was stronger, also the on hit was one of the main bs points because adcs didnt need to build any lifesteal to drain tank

statelesskillerOct 15, 20171 votes

and the attack speed buffs MORE then make up for the loss of the on hit heal. it literally changed nothing. which would you prefer bork passive being applied more often, or a MEASLY maybe 35 on hit healing?

Professor WardOct 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

and? the op was complaing about the prenerf ardent (i know its still broken) because the casters where only saying ardent when it was stronger, also the on hit was one of the main bs points because adcs didnt need to build any lifesteal to drain tank

i was complaining about the entire situation. Both worlds, and the current patch. The item is still heavily purchased.

Big Black CrocOct 15, 201711 votes

They could say"Ardent Cancer". Hehe xd

KnalxzOct 16, 20176 votes

If Lol Esports has taught me anything. it's that Shootcasters know very few words.

Rotations, Ardent Sensor, Faker Faker Faker.

They're like pokemon at this point.

Moooose2Oct 15, 20173 votes

It's not that strong for that long. They're playing on like 3 patches ago before the ardent change. It still gives health. They're playing the game when the item is at its strongest, of course it is going to be meta defining.

Professor WardOct 15, 20173 votes

{quoted}

It's not that strong for that long. They're playing on like 3 patches ago before the ardent change. It still gives health. They're playing the game when the item is at its strongest, of course it is going to be meta defining.

I figured that would happen, but its still the 2nd most frequently purchased full item in the game behind only item 3031 , its still being bought and rushed just as often.

And you say "of course its going to be meta defining" as if an item ever should be. It never shouldve gotten this far.

WinterwingsOct 15, 20175 votes

You can blame that one on genuine meta-sheeping... People watch LC$ and see Ardent built every game so naturally they do the same in their own games because "Hey it works in LC$ lul..."

But honestly, the problem here isn't the fact that Ardent is broken and crowds out all choices (well in a manner of speaking...it is...) but the fact that the remainder of Enchanter itemization has been changed to being "scaling" items. item 3174 item 3107 item 3222 all work off this principle, and don't really have any desirable first purchase stats... So ofc there is no competition for a first purchase item, the answer is item 3504 everytime.

statelesskillerOct 15, 20171 votes

it goes BEYOND meta sheeping. this item was being abused BEFORE lcs started

WinterwingsOct 16, 20171 votes

That doesn't really change the fact that atm there is absolutely no other item that puts up any competition for a first buy item on a Enchanter champion, does it now? item 3174 -> Works by giving you more AP for %BMR from items so you want to have some other items before getting it... item 3107 -> Has that weird %H/SP scaling so you want to have item 3504 / item 3222 (or both) before getting it... -> Has bad stats (40 MR isn't helping much on a squishy, 10% CDR is on pretty much every other item, same with %BMR, other items with better stats also offer it), only good thing about it is its best-in-class %H/SP item 3190 -> You don't really wanna first buy this on a Enchanter, as it suits Tank supports better, but if you're gonna get it better have some %H/SP or Health ( item 3107 ) items before it...

item 3504 -> On the other hand has literally every stat a Enchanter would want from a first buy item, a good chunk of AP (Their AP scaling isn't amazing but its still good enough), 10% CDR which is self-explanatory, some %BMR for mana sustain/Athene's scaling, 8% Move speed which is always useful on a squishy positioning heavy champion, %H/SP to help with Heals/Shields and Redemption, AND that passive that basically acts as a bonus steroid for your ADC and yourself with incredible uptime (as long as you have Mana for Heals/Shields...) So does it really come as a surprise that it's the "correct" choice every time?

Professor WardOct 19, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Azure Northwing,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X1kMEBKn,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-16T09:23:19.556+0000)

That doesn't really change the fact that atm there is absolutely no other item that puts up any competition for a first buy item on a Enchanter champion, does it now? -> Works by giving you more AP for %BMR from items so you want to have some other items before getting it... -> Has that weird %H/SP scaling so you want to have / (or both) before getting it... -> Has bad stats (40 MR isn't helping much on a squishy, 10% CDR is on pretty much every other item, same with %BMR, other items with better stats also offer it), only good thing about it is its best-in-class %H/SP -> You don't really wanna first buy this on a Enchanter, as it suits Tank supports better, but if you're gonna get it better have some %H/SP or Health ( ) items before it...

-> On the other hand has literally every stat a Enchanter would want from a first buy item, a good chunk of AP (Their AP scaling isn't amazing but its still good enough), 10% CDR which is self-explanatory, some %BMR for mana sustain/Athene's scaling, 8% Move speed which is always useful on a squishy positioning heavy champion, %H/SP to help with Heals/Shields and Redemption, AND that passive that basically acts as a bonus steroid for your ADC and yourself with incredible uptime (as long as you have Mana for Heals/Shields...) So does it really come as a surprise that it's the "correct" choice every time?

Sounds good, but the problem is that this item is so good, that its controlling what other lanes buy, and forgoing finishing the support item or building sightstone, this item is literally the only one in the game to be considered stronger than vision at this point.

WinterwingsOct 19, 20171 votes

What do you think would happen if Ardent was changed to give Adaptive AD/AP instead of Attack speed and On-hit damage...?

IcyPepperOct 15, 20173 votes

You have a point, but I'm not shedding tears over the idea that sightstone doesn't have to be rushed.

LysergikOct 15, 20172 votes

I play Malphite support every game and ban lulu. I have 0 problems facing Janna or Soraka. I am curious what you main.

Professor WardOct 15, 20176 votes

{quoted}

I play support every game and ban lulu. I have 0 problems facing Janna or Soraka. I am curious what you main.

I was a nautilus main, changed to lulu and havent looked back.

Also. Im not talking about what one fringe player does that works well. Im extremely happy you have something that works. But its obvious that this item is changing the game too heavily. Youre banning lulu and playing something that counters them, you shouldnt have to every game.

LysergikOct 15, 20171 votes

You play nautilus support?

HydroxlicOct 15, 20172 votes

I got lvl 7 mastery playing it support, its fairly easy. People ban thresh and blitz if they don't want to deal with hooks but always forget Nautilus has one with a 1 second snare basic attack if he collides with them, but Nautilus can also drag to walls and turrets if he feels like it so its pretty easy to escape when needed as well.

Professor WardOct 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

You play nautilus support?

yeah actually it works rather well. Learn to abuse the auto attack root and its lovely. i play with a shitty flex 5 team but naut sup isnt bad.

LysergikOct 16, 20171 votes

I like nautilus but I think he is much better top lane, has much bigger impact on the game and can be S+ tank.

Professor WardOct 16, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I like nautilus but I think he is much better top lane, has much bigger impact on the game and can be S+ tank.

definitely a great tank top, but i still stand by the fact that naut has a better lane phase than thresh, leona, and braum, which is why i keep on playin em.

SasogwaOct 15, 20173 votes

{quoted}

I play support every game and ban lulu. I have 0 problems facing Janna or Soraka. I am curious what you main.

I am curious what elo you play at, no offense.

LysergikOct 16, 20171 votes

Gold 3

paaOct 15, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I have 0 problems facing Janna or Soraka.

Gold 3 LUL

LysergikOct 16, 20171 votes

I was plat but it decayed when hearthstone expansion came out.

xJLx MCHammerOct 16, 20172 votes

I love how people try to downplay how powerful Ardent is

There was a post here a week ago regarding how much gold efficient the items is when the passive is applied to an ADC. It’s amazing that some numbers were like 140% to 500%+ (if applied to more than one person)

The red post from riot even confirmed that the item has insane gold efficiency and they are “okay” with it because it’s to entice people to play support

Newsflash riot, making a class/role OP doesn’t do much regarding the play rate. It’s a temporary fix. Make the class/role more healthy and entice players to play support by doing something other than following an ADC again

The problem is they made every role more centralized and defined regarding what they do. The support role/class need to be redefined in order to get people to play it more, not outright leave support items broken...

Idiotic move riot!

LimrickOct 15, 20171 votes

I really don't understand why they don't disable Ardent in Worlds. If these players are so good, they should be able to adapt.

FairyfleurOct 15, 201710 votes

If you completely disabled a meta shifting item just before worlds the game they practiced with would be flipped on its head, and worlds would turn into "who can find out what's good" and not "who's the best".

HaIlMonitorOct 16, 20172 votes

The meta already has been doing that based on what teams practiced.

MorticianjohnOct 16, 20171 votes

The best team will find out what is good and use it better than the other teams. If you're the best team then you're the best on this patch, next patch and the one after that. Just look at the success SKT has had over the years. Each year is a different meta and each worlds there are plenty of strategic adaptations along the way. SKT has been able to find the best builds, and strategies and been able to execute their plan. If they are the best this year then they will do it again, with or without ardent censor.

SkorchOct 15, 20171 votes

I agree Ardent is a problem, but at the same time Riot has obviously showed they are trying to fix it. it has got like 3 nerfs, and also a nerf to coin to see if that would help bring ardent in line.

Sadly the game is only patched every 2 weeks so if Riot doesnt want to COMPLETELY gut something it can be strong for like 2 or 3 months, which is a long time, but only actually 4 to 6 patches. Which when you think about it, isnt a lot of time to try to make changes other than "GUT"

ProfDrDeathOct 15, 20172 votes

The other thing is, even with the recent nerfs to the item, it will take time for the mindset of the player population to shift away from the Ardent Censer rushes. Especially since it is omnipresent in Worlds and pro play heavily influences what gets played by the general population.

If we were to see regular LCS play on patch 7.19 or 7.20, we'd see way less complaints about Censer/Coin supports, given that the meta should shift away from them.

Don't get me wrong, I still think that AC is a powerful item, but just a powerful item - not an overpowered item as it is on 7.18.

FatedSaviourOct 15, 20171 votes

i remember when i noticed the item and thought why no one was building it, half a year later.............

GorgiolioOct 16, 20171 votes

I just pick brand, rush Frost Queen's Claim and then lay waste to the enemy adc/support. Good luck abusing Ardent Censer when you're stunned and dead. Plus brand is a gold generator with the FQC item line so there's that too.

Papa AndreiOct 16, 20171 votes

Coin and Relic give more gold together than FQC line.

GorgiolioOct 30, 20171 votes

Why would you buy a coin and a relic?

Papa AndreiOct 31, 20171 votes

ADC buys Relic shield

LordGeovanniOct 16, 20171 votes

unless its item 3031 which has defined every meta even on hit ones adcs still get ie. and adcs starting support item is not because its stronger than their own its because they are racing to get their support ardent censer so that the adcs can be come unkillable and the other team is doing the same hence no one is trying to punish relic sheild start. Its a weaker start for a garenteed mid game win

General Esdeath Oct 16, 20171 votes

I also watched Magickarp's video

KnoyleOct 16, 20171 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHp95KO8en4

MelledoneusOct 16, 20171 votes

Quit trying to Ardent "Censor" the shoutcasters you tyrant!

https://media.giphy.com/media/zQXkGUX7bW1Ow/giphy.gif

SpecterVonBarenOct 16, 20171 votes

Ah, reminds me of when Feral Flare was released.

ignyteOct 16, 20171 votes

it does break my heart a lot. I buy dorans blade, i get flamed by my team for not enabling the support faster, and in turn, enabling myself faster.

but its like...come on... thats the Blade of Doran himself!!!! why should i start a relic shield! in a more serious note, you support's are bringing a lot of flak to my role (marksman) , and not on purpose or not to be a douche. its not your fault Ardent just enables us so crazily. you didnt ask for that item to be designed this way. but when people complain about "nerf adc lul they 2 strong" they forget that we have a companion in the bot lane who wants to help us succeed.