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People are complaining about things Veigar could do for many years now.

Curling Veigar··114 votes·6,786 views

Wow! his ult oneshot me, the AP champ with 800 AP and 30 magic resist! (his ult use to have a 120% AP ratio) wow! he has over 1k AP! (when has this ever not been a thing) wow! he has a stun! (it use to be instant) omg he does too much damage! (he use to have a 120% AP scaling ult with a https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsUxhRs22EogWAcUnEygMVGvrn0MZUBWycqbwXQSlseM3zQ40hIGkJXA added to his full combo. he'd literally 100-0 a volibear with nothing but spirit visages in season 2 if he was even the slightest bit popular. trust me, i've 100-0'd full MR tanks before in season 3-4)

lol. and what changed about him? nearly nothing. he was always able to get a fuckton of AP from his Q. now his W is a tiny bit faster and he gets about 100ish more AP per game. 100 AP to veigar and a faster w means nothing if you land your stun.

Also, I said he was a great champion months ago, tried defending him, and everyone disagreed with me. Now froggen plays him about a week after his most recent buffs and suddenly he's OP. He was much more broken before 5.2 but no one knew for some reason. why complain now when he did the same thing but better back then? I'm not saying he isn't strong right now. he is.

Typical boards.

Also, I did the math

Old Veigar with 450 AP and dfg does more damage than new veigar with 750 AP.

Old veigar's combo would do ~3094 (have to factor the %hp dmg that dfg active did) so say a 1900 HP vayne since that's around her base HP at level 18

New veigar would do 3030.

152 Comments

A Superb Villain53 votes

People were surprised by how easy it was to dodge Event Horizon, but now they have grown complacent and forget they are supposed to dodge it in the first place.

Rufus Crabmiser4 votes

Yea, easy to dodge. It's either walk into wall and die or be forced to stand inside it and die.

A Superb Villain20 votes

The only thing I have never managed to dodge inside Event Horizon is Primordial Burst, for obvious reasons. Unless Veigar traps you against a wall or minions block your path, there is absolutely no reason Dark Matter should hit you.

And if it is his teammates that murder you inside the ring, congratulations, you were caught out of position.

Lux Magus1 votes

I've actually dodged (maybe a bad Veigar player's) combo while inside his circle of stun a couple of times now. It seems pretty easy because they get cocky and blow everything in the place where they think you might get stunned at. You can't dodge his ult though. :(

LeprechaunJinx1 votes

You played properly then, a lot of Veigar's ability to hit you if you're not stunned is to anticipate where his enemy will try to leave the ring. Dark Matter (his meteor W) has a pretty small aoe and won't hit you near the edges of his stun if he places it in the middle and his Baleful Strike (Q) is relatively thin too and isn't an instagib.

Deciding if you can make it out of the stun box in time is a huge aspect because if you're uncertain there's a good chance Veigar may throw it near the edge, hoping to get you as you try to slip through rather than stop in the middle and dodge or throw some damage back.

Seekêr15 votes

pre rework veigar was terrifying. especially as support.

Curling Veigar25 votes

[{quoted}](name=Orphic Greed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zGaP99Kz,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2015-09-30T01:27:09.130+0000)

pre rework veigar was terrifying. especially as support.

my entire point is this

no one called him strong or op even though he was about 70% better and had reliable.. everything

Seekêr3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sadistic Veigar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zGaP99Kz,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-09-30T01:37:53.262+0000)

my entire point is this

no one called him strong or op even though he was about 70% better and had reliable.. everything

Ye, I was supporting you OP. There are lots of champions that were strong end went unnoticed until their reworks. Cass was one of them.

Stephenizgod13 votes

Seriously! I was like one of the only people defending new Veigar and i got minimum 50 down votes on every comment or post about it... Now these babies are crying about it all of a sudden? This is why Riot doesn't listen to the boards... You complain about the stun non-stop, claiming the 1000 AP by 20 minutes doesnt mean anything if he cant stun (like the fuck? how?) you complain its too hard to hit or too easy to dodge, well what changed? the ability seems to be the same, there is still a delay... I dont get you folks, seriously you all said his stun was too worthless because it was too easy to dodge. THEN WHY DID YOU STOP DODGING IT?!?!?

BeMyFriendPlease12 votes

When he was first reworked, he relied on his enemy's stupidity more than his own skill. Now he is more normal-mage like

Curling Veigar11 votes

{quoted}

When he was first reworked, he relied on his enemy's stupidity more than his own skill. Now he is more normal-mage like

On patch 5.4 he was utter garbage and half the reason the best veigar in the world quit league. Now he's almost as strong as old veigar without an instant stun and dfg which I find pretty remarkable on riot's part

19902013RIP Kira1 votes

DFG is gone for long now....plus Veig now can get 1000AP at 20 minutes mark pls tell me more how you could do that in the old days...Oh wait you couldnt....

Plus really? because he dosent have insta stun (0.25second delay) that allow him to get so much ap that fast?

GTFO he will get nerfed he is absurd every person that play veig from pro to soloQ player laugh about how OP he is...

So no matter how much you try to defend him riot would nerf him!

Catastrop1 votes

I don't think you realize how easy it was to actually get kills with old Veigar. It didn't matter if you didn't get great cs to boost your AP, by twenty minutes having at least 10+ kills wasn't anything strange for a Veigar. That's 50 plus Ap farmed along with whatever he had accumulated from minions and items. It was easy to get at least 400-600 AP by twenty minutes.

19902013RIP Kira1 votes

and now he can get 1000 at 20 minutes so we both agree that the new veigar is broken..so why you try to argue?

Catastrop4 votes

Because you're trying to tell me New Veigar is OP, which he is not. Sure he can farm 1000 AP by 20 minutes, but that's because you clearly have no idea how to fight Veigar. Riot took out his only safety mechanism by nerfing his stun, there is no reason your Jungler and you shouldn't take advantage of that. If he starts One Shotting people, don't complain. He started doing that because you let him. He's just doing what he's meant to do and it's ridiculous that there are people who QQ'ing over this. My point is the same as OP, why are people suddenly complaining about him now and not then when he was way more reliable? It just makes no sense.

19902013RIP Kira1 votes

because his W was having bigger Delay 1000 AP is not a small thing while the old veigar in order to get 1000 AP he needed 30-40 minutes....now he only need 20 and when you make his W a skill that take 100% of the champ AP easier to hit and on top of that you make the champion easier to get AP there is a problem

And who say that the old veig was good? i mean that what the whole point that riot nerf him and they remove DFG but now they over buff him which make him even more strong than he was

And if you think 1000 AP is nothing then what ever i am done with you

mikemcparty2 votes

Do you complain about nasus too?

ModIts Yuu and Mi2 votes

{quoted}

Do you complain about nasus too?

No, because Nasus 1. Doesnt 100-0 you 2. Doesnt scale off your own stats and 3. Actually falls off late game.

"But they stack!" And that's where the similarities end as they're entirely different Champions.

Veigar's a bad design (albeit a cool one! The little dude is cool! Just flawed.) Nasus-- while this is definitely debatable-- is an okay design in my opinion.

Battlecast Sona3 votes

NASUS FALLS OFF LATE GAME? SINCE WHEN?

ModIts Yuu and Mi2 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zGaP99Kz,comment-id=0001000000000003000000000000000200000001,timestamp=2015-09-30T19:02:11.008+0000)

NASUS FALLS OFF LATE GAME? SINCE WHEN?

Since the dawn of time.

The only way he doesnt fall off is splitting.

At full build, he doesn't 100-0 you, Lifesteal recovers the "wtf dmg" of his Q, QSS removes his Whither long enough to kill him, teams collectively kite his ass, and armor/magic pen is now in abundance enough to kill him.

Battlecast Sona1 votes

A character that scales infinitely cannot, by definition, "fall off". At any point in the game.

Hyrum Graff1 votes

[{quoted}](name=A Vitriolic Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zGaP99Kz,comment-id=000100000000000300000000000000020000000100000000,timestamp=2015-10-01T03:41:07.679+0000)

A character that scales infinitely cannot, by definition, "fall off". At any point in the game.

Nid is actually right. He falls off because late game is most often about teamfighting, and in a teamfight nasus just gets kited to hell. It doesn't matter how much damage you have if you can't get it off.

darkmatchwaldo2 votes

Nasus....falls...off...late......game.......i think you lose all credibility with that statement right there.

ModIts Yuu and Mi1 votes

{quoted}

Nasus....falls...off...late......game.......i think you lose all credibility with that statement right there.

No, it's just that people below a certain elo cant tell. Typically Gold 4 and below. Let me see...

Yeah, it shows you're Silver 4.

People in S4 dont understand how to chain their abilities together as needed -nor- counterbuild properly to deal with him so they dont notice how and when he falls off.

darkmatchwaldo1 votes

Whatever you say man. You must be right, you're a higher rank than me.

The Queen Viper2 votes

Meh ... his "stun" is still useless.

Hiadne6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snąke on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zGaP99Kz,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2015-09-30T00:27:52.465+0000)

Meh ... his "stun" is still useless.

Nope, just takes more skill.

JESUSSAYSNO10 votes

Keep in mind Frogen has played Anivia in pro games. He is not the meta, I would say his edge is taking advantage of people don't know how to play against his rather odd champ pool. He's a funny pro player in that regard.

Veigar doesn't need a nerf. He's not nearly at the level he once was with DFG and the instant stun, and assassin's haven't been nerfed at all, bruisers and tanks have been buffed. Veigar still gets rekt by a solid assassin, even more now than ever before due to the stun nerf.

His AP has never mattered. He will always be able to delete squishies. That's his identity. 5% extra on deathcap doesn't mean anything.

Borbland5 votes

Yeah.

I posted a thread after his rework that he is still good. I got downvoted by the same persons that said that Ahri will suck post-dfg-removal (cough 58% winrate cough). Of course, cause everyone was whining, they buffed him, and even then they continued whining.

Personnaly, I was quite playing some Veigar before, but since I was a skillshot mage main, I mostly played him casually. After his rework, he was alot more challenging and can do more things than before, but he was harder. His E was harder to hit, but it was entierly possible, not like "YOU ONLY HIT E IF ENEMY IS A TARD LOLOLOL". His Q could last hit better (Lasthitting 2 creeps at the same time is only hard before 10 min. Afterwards, you start oneshotting mage minions with it) and can poke since it has good range now.

And not to forget, the general mana and CD reductions which were completly overlooked by anybody, which only saw the 0.2 AP ratio nerf on ult, but not the massive CD reduction of it. Nearly every spell had mana/CD reductions, and that made him less mana hungry and more like a poke/burst mage hybrid.

Anyway, If I posted this like 3 months ago, I would have been downvoted to oblivion, now that minds have changed, let's see ^^

LordForrest1 votes

Man, those Ahri changes with were hilarious, everybody was bitching and moaning about how shit tier she was going to be now. Meanwhile, i saw them and go damn, this is going to hurt, isn't? First two games of the new patch, i was destroyed by an Ahri, like i couldn't even do anything and she carried the game, second game i played Ahri and stomped my lane too. Which made me laugh even harder seeing as i only played ahri a few times before her initial change to the dfg assassin which i didn't play because i didn't like the playstyle.

Ultîma4 votes

My only issue with Veigar's kit is the part where his ultimate becomes stronger against you if you build AP. You shouldn't be penalized for buying items and being ahead as Xerath/Ahri/Kassadin/Lux because that's comparable to what happened with the Villain mechanic with Garen upon his rework release. It should have fantastic AP scaling for Veigar but currently it isn't well-designed.

Carry4 votes

Yo. Listen to this.

The numbers associated with a kit actually matter. When riot tweaks a champ like reducing a CD or changing a hitbox or increasing a ratio this causes the champion as a whole to become stronger or weaker. Posts like these pretend those things don't matter. "He was always a similar champ to this, so he can't be OP now cuz he's kinda the same champ xD". It's just dumb. The champ got buffed, it is stronger now, it has the #5 winrate in mid for a reason. It's not random, it's not people suddenly knowing or not knowing how to play against something.

The detailed balance of a kit actually matters, and posts like these that pretend that a vague description of a champion's kit defines its power level, from which numerical changes do nothing, is ridiculous.

NineTailedMystic3 votes

Veigar is actually fine. I don't know why people complain now. Not too strong, not too weak.

PopePancake3 votes

He's come a long way from 5.4, and im happy to see him doing so well!

I happily await the VU that will come someday! Veigar

Akali is SO HOT3 votes

I think it's more of the fact that assassins are so bad right now that there is nobody to stop him from reaching his 1 shot potential with R

MealReadytoEat3 votes

They lowered the CD on his stun and W earlier as well, and these buffs are just making it shine. His stun gets to a 8.8 second CD; it's honestly the strongest skill in the game, bearing in mind its CD.

Fadedpf2 votes

His scaling is higher with new deathcap though...

Curling Veigar12 votes

{quoted}

His scaling is higher with new deathcap though...

the added 5% increase in his AP?

it still comes nowhere near as close as much damage as he did with a dfg my ult would do about 1080 damage when i have 390 AP with dfg alone to champs without AP

Fadedpf1 votes

DFG and all its glory and broken-ness should not be the determining factor on Veigar and his strengths as a champion.

Curling Veigar7 votes

{quoted}

DFG and all its glory and broken-ness should not be the determining factor on Veigar and his strengths as a champion.

I know, but why didn't people complain about his damage back then? Was it "fine"?

Fadedpf8 votes

Well in season 4 where Veigar was doing all this. ALL the assassins where at their prime. Rengar Khazix ( are your jungle picks. It was almost always Rengar VS Khazix) And mid lane filled with Leblanc Zed Akali Katarina Talon . So he was still outrageous, just very very hard to pull off because of the Assassin meta and pressure it had on a champion like him. Now with Assassins not the only thing being viable and all the AP changes and DFG removal he is actually a champion with his own place rather than press point and click nukes with DFG and instant stun and hopefully win the game. His scaling is higher with New death cap and getting Q stacks with assists now and double stacking. So his nukes on paper on weaker but in reality not really changed at all. It is all up to Riot if he is too strong. I think he is way stronger now with people mastering him and using his Q like you are supposed to. He has a lot more flavor to him with all the changes. So you have to take into account the current items in the game and his potential with all the changes he has. I think he is a little to strong myself.

Curling Veigar3 votes

{quoted}

Well in season 4 where Veigar was doing all this. ALL the assassins where at their prime. Rengar Khazix ( are your jungle picks. It was almost always Rengar VS Khazix) And mid lane filled with Leblanc Zed Akali Katarina Talon . So he was still outrageous, just very very hard to pull off because of the Assassin meta and pressure it had on a champion like him. Now with Assassins not the only thing being viable and all the AP changes and DFG removal he is actually a champion with his own place rather than press point and click nukes with DFG and instant stun and hopefully win the game. His scaling is higher with New death cap and getting Q stacks with assists now and double stacking. So his nukes on paper on weaker but in reality not really changed at all. It is all up to Riot if he is too strong. I think he is way stronger now with people mastering him and using his Q like you are supposed to. He has a lot more flavor to him with all the changes. So you have to take into account the current items in the game and his potential with all the changes he has. I think he is a little to strong myself.

Just going to say that new veigar's mid game is a lot worse than old veigar's. His nuke is weaker on paper and in reality, i see the numbers every day in game.

Battlecast Sona3 votes

that doesn't mean the poster is wrong. Veigar has a really hard time against a lot of the popular assassin picks, but currently they're not as in-meta as a lot of mage picks, which is what Veigar excels at countering.

WarlockLaw2 votes

Veigar loses to poke mages worse than assassins during laning phase as veigar lacks enough range to poke them back and can't q farm well under tower

4th3t0s3 votes

It seems you guys are forgetting about the OLD dfg, not the magic damage amp active; but the 25%(?) + 4% per 100 ap max hp shred that literally had him 2-shotting tanks when he reached midgame.

THAT was borderline unhealthy; he's far better off now, for himself, and the meta.

HidingOverHere1 votes

{quoted}

It seems you guys are forgetting about the OLD dfg, not the magic damage amp active; but the 25%(?) + 4% per 100 ap max hp shred that literally had him 2-shotting tanks when he reached midgame.

THAT was borderline unhealthy; he's far better off now, for himself, and the meta.

it was funny that if the game went on long enough he literally COULD one shot anyone though improbable, deathfire could reach over 100% of anyone's current health

WarlockLaw1 votes

That is way past critical mass Veigar.

My favorite part of late game Veigar was dfg ulting a tank to kill them, then w into q on the adc for a near instant double kill. Then proceed to go back to farming while my team wins the 4v3

HidingOverHere1 votes

{quoted}

That is way past critical mass Veigar.

My favorite part of late game Veigar was dfg ulting a tank to kill them, then w into q on the adc for a near instant double kill. Then proceed to go back to farming while my team wins the 4v3

or just deathfire ult tryndamere and he cant even react to ult

brad2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sadistic Veigar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zGaP99Kz,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-09-30T00:04:21.641+0000)

Wow! his ult oneshot me, the AP champ with 800 AP and 30 magic resist!

800 ap.... if it was only 800 nobody would be complaining, try 1500-1800

Curling Veigar8 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hi lm Brad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zGaP99Kz,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-09-30T00:46:49.996+0000)

800 ap.... if it was only 800 nobody would be complaining, try 1500-1800

no i mean the champ that got oneshot had 800 AP and 30 magic resist

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