Soooo Akali is gut?

Pierce The Veal··11 votes·1,657 views
10/18 PBE Update

Based on PBE:

Akali's auto attacks no longer deal a bonus amount of damage (usually around 150 bonus magic damage later in the game)

No longer gains spell vamp.

Replaced with a heal scaling with bonus AD and a damage auto scaling with 45% AP once every 8-5 seconds. On a 600 AP build that's a whole 340 damage in 2 autos, whereas two autos would have given her 300+ damage in current builds, but without requiring her to wait for a second auto, and allowing you to use it multiple times in a 5 second period. Plus, this is a gut to her tower taking power and wave clear).

W gives a blink, only actual buff. But cast time increased, and lasts shorter except at max rank

E: cooldown up by 2 seconds, from 1 to 3, with only a 10% AP scaling buff to compensate.

R: AP scaling down to 25% from 50%, and has a solid 2 second cooldown between ults unaffected by cdr, up from 2/1.5/1 while still affected by cdr.

Soooo, let's see what these changes have killed off.

Akali's waveclear, check.

Akali's CDR builds, check.

Akali's AP builds, check.

And last but not least, Akali herself, check.

From now on, the only viable Akali build is tank akali. Woo hoo.

Edit: I like how I'm being downvoted because I am legit pointing out how a champion is going to be turned into trash.

Edit two: New duskblade of is probably going to be worth buying on her with her changes. Build around items giving her bonus damage rather than stats. Gunblade statikk shiv triforce draktharr perhaps? Throw in a spirit visage for good measure. Consider replacing statikk shiv with ludens if you get rich enough (or buying ludens instead of boots).

Edit 3: am I supposed to think Akali is some sort of amazing champion right now and that's why she's being nerfed? Her winrate is 48% with a pickrate of 1%. If anything, she's balanced or slightly on the side of needing some slight buffs. Yet some of you are trying to justify her nerfs by saying she's utterly strong? At least keep your biases out of balance please. I'm warning you guys, these changes are the downfall of all assassin Akali's and will spark the rise of more people playing tank akali (though less people will be playing akali overall after the changes).

37 Comments

Eyesack3 votes

Yea those ult nerfs need to be reverted immediately

Iceember2 votes

Doing that would put her over the top. Her new passive already accounts for the missing damage. I dont think as harsh of a nerf is needed at later levels but right now with the current numbers we see she deals only a tiny bit less at level 6 with hextech revolver.

Jesus Is My King1 votes

{quoted}

Doing that would put her over the top. Her new passive already accounts for the missing damage. I dont think as harsh of a nerf is needed at later levels but right now with the current numbers we see she deals only a tiny bit less at level 6 with hextech revolver.

and your telling me mathmatically shes stronger when you point out in this very comment "a tiny bit less at 6" so how is she stronger when clearly shes weaker.

Iceember1 votes

No. Pay attention to what I said. I said the passive does more damage and was basically made compensate for her lack of R damage. Her full combo level 6 is negligible. Doing 25 less damage with a revolver rush you also heal for more at level 6 than you did previously. Level 11 with a gunblade you deal ~60 less damage and heal for 55 less. Not this massive nerf everyone is crying about. Actually look at the numbers and you will see that she does more damage with passive than previously not to mention there is another 19 days a whole 19 days for these numbers to get tweaked. Just last night rickless told us that passive got a buff and the scaling went from 45% AP to 50%. They eventually will tweak the numbers but as of right now the difference is so insignificant it doesn't warrant all this pathetic whining. If you wanna whine about the changes go do so with someone else.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Yea those ult nerfs need to be reverted immediately

Yep.

In fact, on top of reverting, I think they should also throw in an AD scaling on her ultimate like to go along with her passive's new AD scaling, to make AD worth considering on Akali.

Irelia Bot1 votes

Actually adding a .4 bonus AD ratio to it would be a really nice option instead.

ANd would open up some items that had not been ideal for her in the past.

item 3147 Also make item 3078 a good choice.

WoonStruck1 votes

Lichbane's already a really strong choice on her if you're going the assassination route, considering her auto attacks offered so much that you have to use them.

Yeah, she deals less damage now though. That's kind of the point.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Lichbane's already a really strong choice on her if you're going the assassination route, considering her auto attacks offered so much that you have to use them.

Yeah, she deals less damage now though. That's kind of the point.

She deals less damage, and now has no incentive to build AP ever. She lost her early game, and her late game, a lot of her sustain, and a lot of her waveclear, and much of her mobility, while she is already a 1% pickrate ~48% winrate champion.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zBJ0n32l,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-10-19T07:18:11.082+0000)

Actually adding a .4 bonus AD ratio to it would be a really nice option instead.

ANd would open up some items that had not been ideal for her in the past.

item 3147 Also make item 3078 a good choice.

Triforce was already a good choice. The ad scaling would make other AD items worth considering.

Drakylon3 votes

Crescent Slash also got a +40/45/50/55/60 base damage buff pushing its rank 1 damage to 70 +(50% AP) +(70% AD) and with the same rank 1 cooldown, making it better for early wave clear. Blink on Shroud is pretty significant, but I feel like the cast time increase was unwarranted.

Not sure about her other damage nerfs though; that ult nerf in particular scares me.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

Crescent Slash also got a +40/45/50/55/60 base damage buff pushing its rank 1 damage to 70 +(50% AP) +(70% AD) and with the same rank 1 cooldown, making it better for early wave clear. Blink on Shroud is pretty significant, but I feel like the cast time increase was unwarranted.

Not sure about her other damage nerfs though; that ult nerf in particular scares me.

In that sense crescent slash is better, for like, the first one or two points in it, after which it becomes sort of crap. We're back to the old e which was crap after it stopped procing her q. This could be fixed if we allowed it to proc her passive/Q.

That ult nerf alone instantly turns akali into garbage. It means she's stuck in a fight for at least 2 seconds no matter what she does. No fancy plays or anything. Add in the damage nerfs and now she has no reason to build AP, and she needs to build tanky to survive when she's in. Good job Riot, you enforced tabk akali!

Irelia Bot1 votes

Having it proc her passive would make her feel better after these changes have thrown so much of the way I have learned to play her has been thoroughly destroyed.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zBJ0n32l,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T07:16:04.665+0000)

Having it proc her passive would make her feel better after these changes have thrown so much of the way I have learned to play her has been thoroughly destroyed.

Yeah. A lot of her strengths are wiped out with these changes.

Nasuuna3 votes

just go gunblade tank like all the other good akali players do,

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

just go gunblade tank like all the other good akali players do,

Funny thing about that. I was doing that before that was a thing. I did that quite often back in season 3. But eventually, it gets to be boring.

Iceember2 votes

Yeah waveclear is gone. What CDR builds? Umm what? Technically with the new passive you can deal more damage at 3-4 items than you did before. Honestly everyone is saying she got nerfed but the way i see it is that everyone is trying to play her like they do on live even though through these changes alot of her regular play patterns got changed too..

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah waveclear is gone. What CDR builds? Umm what? Technically with the new passive you can deal more damage at 3-4 items than you did before. Honestly everyone is saying she got nerfed but the way i see it is that everyone is trying to play her like they do on live even though through these changes alot of her regular play patterns got changed too..

CDR builds itemized around stuff like zhonya's lich bane abyssal etc. They weren't core or anything, but allowed her to have a lot more waveclear and mobility (cause her ult dropped to a 0.6 cd between casts). Also with a blue buff CDR on her made her go hyper carry mode.

Yes, technically her passive deals more damage in the new rendition at 3-4 items, assuming you auto attack no more or less than twice.

Iceember1 votes

What? No. We always built zhonyas(It and gunblade are her core) Even before CDR got added to it. Same with abyssal. Lich usually is a situational item. Blue would allow for more E's and maybe an extra R in fights. Regardless of the CD though you aren't supposed to spam R in fights. You generally want to use 1 R per combo unless they try to run or you needed a quick finisher.

Passive deals more damage hands down. It makes up a good portion of her damage and goes on cooldown upon the first auto. Its cooldown is per level and I'm assuming based on the traditional Riot "1/6/11/16" benchmarks for cooldowns meaning at level 11 it has a 6 second cooldown with your empowered auto buff lasting for 4 seconds. This is what I meant about play patterns changing so pay attention. You are going to want to try to pop an auto off on the tank or a creep or something before engaging. Then jump em for a regular combo -> Zhonyas -> Combo-ing some other fool making sure you use that empowered auto as well.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

What? No. We always built zhonyas(It and gunblade are her core) Even before CDR got added to it. Same with abyssal. Lich usually is a situational item. Blue would allow for more E's and maybe an extra R in fights. Regardless of the CD though you aren't supposed to spam R in fights. You generally want to use 1 R per combo unless they try to run or you needed a quick finisher.

Passive deals more damage hands down. It makes up a good portion of her damage and goes on cooldown upon the first auto. Its cooldown is per level and I'm assuming based on the traditional Riot "1/6/11/16" benchmarks for cooldowns meaning at level 11 it has a 6 second cooldown with your empowered auto buff lasting for 4 seconds. This is what I meant about play patterns changing so pay attention. You are going to want to try to pop an auto off on the tank or a creep or something before engaging. Then jump em for a regular combo -> Zhonyas -> Combo-ing some other fool making sure you use that empowered auto as well.

No, the cdr build focuses on actually reaching 40% cdr. It's not a common build, and a rather under appreciated, useful, but niche build. It makes sure to get the full 40%, not just lich bane zhonya's abyssal. It existed before those got cdr, but became more easy to do after they got cdr.

As for her passive, the bonus damage is consumed once and is bam, gone. Whereas previously akali could continuously apply it. True, you didn't spam R, but a good akali would be doing something like Q R AA Q R AA taking care to animation cancel everything, including her ultimate. All in the shortest period of time possible. Plus, sometimes what you do is Q- R AA and R away to dodge CC or damage, only to Q R AA again.

Iceember1 votes

If you are comboing Q-R-AA you are doing something wrong. Your typical level 6 combo is Q-wait for cd-R-AA-Q-AA-E-R + ignite if needed. Later into the game using R as an escape is possible but you are probably utilising zhonyas by then.

As for CDR builds: Before those items got CDR building CDR on here meant you wasted stats. Alot of stats. Stuff like mana and mana regen. Not to mention having overall less AP than a typical build...

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

If you are comboing Q-R-AA you are doing something wrong. Your typical level 6 combo is Q-wait for cd-R-AA-Q-AA-E-R + ignite if needed. Later into the game using R as an escape is possible but you are probably utilising zhonyas by then.

As for CDR builds: Before those items got CDR building CDR on here meant you wasted stats. Alot of stats. Stuff like mana and mana regen. Not to mention having overall less AP than a typical build...

Level 6, indeed, Q, wait for Q cd, R AA Q AA R is indeed optimal. Do note I said Q - R - AA - Q - R - AA, as I was assuming that you'd be doing the waiting anyway. There is an issue, however, in that smarter opponents will back off if you put Q on them, and play safe, so sometimes it's just better to Q-R-AA-E and back off, rather than keep all three stacks of ult up permanently. Really depends on your situation. You really seem to like to generalize, as if there's only one way to utilize Akali's abilities well. Sometimes, in fact, it is even better to R Q AA, for the element of surprise, or for the sake of quickness. Smarter and batter akali players can animation cancel the end of R, all of Q, and end up instantly doing a ton of burst. It's just not that easy to do with high ping, however.

As for Zhonya's, it basically plays the role of a second "oh fuck" card next to flash. If you rely on it, Akali is not really playable. It isn't just possible to use R to dodge, it's optimal.

20% cdr from masteries was a thing you know. So no, I never built mana, except if I was buying triforce or lich bane.

Iceember1 votes

Alright. Time to just break things down: You are saying Q R AA into another Q R AA is the way you combo. That's not how you combo at all. You are just expressing how little you know about the champion's kit. Your optimal combo is the one I listed. I understand that it isn't the only combo and I do combo in other ways when playing as the situation calls for but sitting there claiming Q R AA is just sub-optimal and ends up with you dead more times than alive. Also could you please link me to a piece of material showing how I can cancel my TARGETED DASH because I'm sure the entire Akalimains community would love to know how to kill people faster.

Zhonyas is an "oh fuck button"? No. It's a tool. If I'm in my opponents backline after killing their ADC mid teamfight do you know what happens if i stand around? I die. They all turn and I die to my opponents. But if I Zhonyas while standing there they can't sit around letting my team kill them so they are forced to focus on my teammates allowing me to come out of stasis into another combo.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

If you're not going to properly read my post I'm not gonna bother explaining this to you. It's all pretty damn simple.

As for the animation canceling, let's just say it looks like you fly at the enemy champion, instantly launch Q right before the end of the ult, and auto as your Q is launched. Pretty simple really. Basically what you do is R mash Q as you fly and also A move click like crazy.

As for Zhonya's? You really don't need it below plat/diamond. It's just really convenient to have. No gold player I have seen really punishes Akali, so I've just found that rushing something like Rylai's works better. It's a tool, sure, but if you begin to rely on it then you will never be a good akali.

Irelia Bot1 votes

I have tried it and the damage is not there. Her passive does not make up for the lost damage from ult and her old passive in the slightest and akali can't even split push as well as before. She is like a fighter without the defensive stats to survive and now all of her abilities require several points to be effective which is lietatlly making her one of the only champs in the game with that limitation. Most champs can put one point into an ability and freely sit on it until late game. Akali use to have her shroud like this but that is no longer the case.

Her passive on live is actually a lot. If you have 300 AP that is 56% of your AD as on hit magic damage or likely around 60 to 70 on hit magic damage for every auto attack. 602 + 50 + .25AP. 170 + (.25300)=245 her passive on PBE as is with 300 AP while level 18 would be 70 + .45*300 =205. There is literally no comparison. And if you throw in more auto attacks the current passive shows itself as even better.

Don't even get me started on the healing part of the passive.

I tried to make this work. I have played akali off and one since the days when gunblades stacked and this is the worst she has ever felt to play. She does not feel like a champ I want to play anymore and does not seem to excel at anything except running away.

The only 2 good things are the lack of pink wards as counters and that W can go over a lot of walls.

Iceember1 votes

The numbers on a level 6 combo. The damage "not being there" must be something you are doing because taking the numbers from the PBE this is what a side by side for Akali both live and PBE looks like. http://imgur.com/a/G0LNs

Belisarius092 votes

Akali Main here. Some of the changes I think I like, and some not so much.

I think OP is mistakenly saying Riot is making Tank Akali the only viable Akali left to play. I think the Changes to E and passive illustrate the exact opposite. E's damage has been just about doubled, at the expense of tripling the CD. This increases her burst while reducing her sustained damage. Same thing with the passive change, her burst is being increased while reducing her sustained damage. We can debate Riot's execution but I think the intent is pretty clear, and it isn't to encourage more Tank Akali, but rather discourage it. So these changes, I'm fine with I think. I don't think I'm a huge fan of the passive change, but maybe it can be worked around.

The changes to ult however, I do take issue with. The damage is being cut in half and the CD is being doubled. The cherry on the top being CDR won't effect the CD of ult. Now that's some BS. I knew they would take away some of Akali's damage to offset the changes to pinks, but this seems excessive. Reduce the damage fine, but not by that much, and don't increase the CD on Ult.

The shroud changes are meant as a buff with nerfs to casting time/duration. The added mobility is nice but I'm not sure I'm a fan of the mechanics, nor willing to trade the duration for these "buffs." Current shroud I can put down where I want. Removing Akali's option to be aggressive with shroud by throwing it in front of her/behind her target to cut off their retreat with the AOE slow is a nerf to what I think Riot intends to be one of the offsetting buffs.

So we have too many, too excessive nerfs, and the buffs to make up the difference are debatabley nerfs as well.

I'm not thrilled. None of this is live yet. Hopefully they rethink a few of these when they get feeback from the pbe.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

While I agree that those are nerfs to tank akali in terms of passive and E, I will say that they are not nearly as big as the nerfs to assassin Akali, and thus I expect people to move towards tank akali. Her new passive has a base damage of up to 170, and considering Akali never built a ton of AP or AD as a tank anyway, the sustained damage lost is more than offset by that base damage, plus, tank akali will be able to survive the 5 second cooldown to reapply it multiple times, and the sustain from passive with its base heal will offset the loss of spellvamp in tank akali but not in glass cannon akali.

Shroud is now more of a gimmick, and has a more limited use potential. I think changed it so it can be reactivated to blink would be better than forcing it to be a blink in the first place. Placing the shroud where I want is a huge part of Akali's gameplay.

Ult nerf is a gut. A double whammy gut.

Belisarius092 votes

{quoted}

While I agree that those are nerfs to tank akali in terms of passive and E, I will say that they are not nearly as big as the nerfs to assassin Akali, and thus I expect people to move towards tank akali. Her new passive has a base damage of up to 170, and considering Akali never built a ton of AP or AD as a tank anyway, the sustained damage lost is more than offset by that base damage, plus, tank akali will be able to survive the 5 second cooldown to reapply it multiple times, and the sustain from passive with its base heal will offset the loss of spellvamp in tank akali but not in glass cannon akali.

Shroud is now more of a gimmick, and has a more limited use potential. I think changed it so it can be reactivated to blink would be better than forcing it to be a blink in the first place. Placing the shroud where I want is a huge part of Akali's gameplay.

Ult nerf is a gut. A double whammy gut.

Yeh, I agree on shroud. None of us asked for that dash. It's gimmikcy and ultimately restrictive on how we use shroud. I'd trade that uneeded added mobility for the old R or a Q buff.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Yeh, I agree on shroud. None of us asked for that dash. It's gimmikcy and ultimately restrictive on how we use shroud. I'd trade that uneeded added mobility for the old R or a Q buff.

Yep, yep.

WoonStruck1 votes

Psst...they made Akali's early game so shit because she was a problem.

What do you think this 'update' is trying to change?

Her passive was a large portion of that problem.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Psst...they made Akali's early game so shit because she was a problem.

What do you think this 'update' is trying to change?

Her passive is a large portion of the problem.

Except they also gutted her late game, her teamfight, her waveclear, her last hitting ability, her burst, and her sustain. What is left? Her mobility? Also nerfed overall. All that is left are her base damages.

WoonStruck1 votes

Gee...you think maybe there's a reason they gutted her late game?

It was absurd. I had 4k HP and 150 MR as Skarner once (full build), and she near-instantly blew off 2k after my shield. She had no penetration, and wasn't even fed. She got dicked on all game. She wasn't even full build.

I didn't die, but that's one of the moments I looked into it again and realized she got over 400 damage out of her passive at 4 items, and that her Q was a .9 AP ratio on a 3 second CD. Then you look at her ult numbers.


There's a reason Riot nerfed her late game. Nerfing her late game was the only reasonable thing to do if they wanted her to be an acceptable champion.

Pierce The Veal1 votes

{quoted}

Gee...you think maybe there's a reason they gutted her late game?

It was absurd. I had 4k HP and 150 MR as Skarner once (full build), and she near-instantly blew off 2k after my shield. She had no penetration, and wasn't even fed. She got dicked on all game. She wasn't even full build.

I didn't die, but that's one of the moments I looked into it again and realized she got over 400 damage out of her passive at 4 items, and that her Q was a .9 AP ratio on a 3 second CD. Then you look at her ult numbers.


There's a reason Riot nerfed her late game. Nerfing her late game was the only reasonable thing to do if they wanted her to be an acceptable champion.

I mean, it's not like she has a negative winrate with a 1% pickrate or anything. The only people with any success on her have a hundred plus games on her, and you're telling me the only way she would be acceptable is if she got further nerfed?

Her winrate is negative throughout the game, and only turns positive or increases towards late game. She is a late game champion (with a spike at when she builds gunblade). Nerfing her lategame while also nerfed her early game is utterly gutting her.

PapaGreg211 votes

It looks like she is worse overall.

Talisid1 votes

Gee its almost like this rework is not balanced yet and is still in testing.

Pierce The Veal2 votes

{quoted}

Gee its almost like this rework is not balanced yet and is still in testing.

It's almost like it's purposefully gutting her, not attenpting balance.

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