About Black Cleaver changes...

Visigoth·Apr 8, 2015·1 votes·848 views

So they're going to make Black Cleaver made from Phage instead of Brutalizer and no longer give base Armor Pen. That will completely screw so mana AD casters. Some being and . On all of them in lane, I rush Brutalizer for early pen, and even in jungle I usually pick up a Brutalizer after my jungle because they do well with armor pen (especially J4 and Pantheon). But this means Brutalizer would only build into . I would never, ever, pick Youmou's Over Cleaver on Pantheon, Jarvan, or Kha'Zix, the shred is lovely and the Attack speed from Youmou's is almost never used. So I now have to sacrifice my early pen or have an item which is mostly useful for its active, which is awful on the champion I'm playing.

At least give us another Brutalizer item, because not counting jungle items there's only one if this change goes through. And I am not looking forward to rushing Phage on Jarvan or Pantheon...

9 Comments

Critmaster GarenApr 8, 20152 votes

edit.: nvm. the maximum armor shred went up to 30%

i really do welcome the extra cdr. whats hurting a little bit is going to be the 15 ad loss. i dont care if the item would be 250 gold more expensive again (back the the current value), if it at least got 10 ad back.

Jaygo41Apr 8, 20151 votes

nononononono this new cleaver is gonna be rediculous on jarvan because it allows him to get tankier as well as build some damage he gets 200 more HP from this, on a champ who's main purpose is to tank

VisigothApr 8, 20151 votes

{quoted}

nononononono this new cleaver is gonna be rediculous on jarvan because it allows him to get tankier as well as build some damage he gets 200 more HP from this, on a champ who's main purpose is to tank

except it destroys lane Kha'Zix. He needs the early Brutalizer for damage, and later gets Cleaver because Youmou's is pretty bad on him. But now You have to wait until you get the whole Cleaver or rush Last Whisper for any armor pen.

Although I could see the new Cleaver really good on some immobile adc's for kiting, like on Varus or Miss Fortune. Wouldn't be a great rush but it could be a decent last item for extra tanky enemies who you need to kite, like Mundo or Sion.

ThePurpleKnightApr 8, 20151 votes

Honestly I am quite excited about these changes, 20% CDR and more HP on the cleaver is what I've always wanted, the phage change seems a little meh, but I mean I didn't really like Brutalizer either, too expensive for a purely offensive item.

This is really gonna help MF out now to since she will no longer have to buy Last Whisper.

FauxfireApr 8, 20151 votes

You're telling me.

R.I.P. item 3074 item 3142 item 3071 item 3270 item 3031 item 3035 Talon

BeatzBoyFTWApr 9, 20151 votes

Talon's already dead during the silence removal lol

Critmaster GarenApr 8, 20151 votes

well, it lost 10 armor pen and 15 ad.

it gained a buch of other neat stuff.

Recipe: Phage + Kindlegem + 825 gold (3000 gold total)

400 HP 40 AD 20% CDR Unique Passive - Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion Cleaves them, reducing their Armor by 5% for 6 seconds (stacks up to 6 times, up to 30%).

Unique passive - Rage - "Dealing physical damage grants 20 movement speed for 2 seconds. Assists on Cleaved enemy champions or kills on any unit grant 80 movement speed for 4 seconds instead. This Movement Speed is halved for ranged champions (Unique Passives with the same name don't stack.)

imo increase the ad value back to 55, and it will be a nice change overall, even with the 10 flat armor pen loss. it gained another 5% shred to make up for that at least.

Toothless LionApr 9, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zBE0ZmKd,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-04-08T19:45:33.378+0000)

well, it lost 10 armor pen and 15 ad.

it gained a buch of other neat stuff.

Recipe: Phage + Kindlegem + 825 gold (3000 gold total)

400 HP 40 AD 20% CDR Unique Passive - Dealing physical damage to an enemy champion Cleaves them, reducing their Armor by 5% for 6 seconds (stacks up to 6 times, up to 30%).

Unique passive - Rage - "Dealing physical damage grants 20 movement speed for 2 seconds. Assists on Cleaved enemy champions or kills on any unit grant 80 movement speed for 4 seconds instead. This Movement Speed is halved for ranged champions (Unique Passives with the same name don't stack.)

imo increase the ad value back to 55, and it will be a nice change overall, even with the 10 flat armor pen loss. it gained another 5% shred to make up for that at least.

You do realize 50 AD to 40 AD = 10 right OP and this guy? The new Black Cleaver is incredibly useful on just about any bruiser. Assassins like Talon, Kha Zix, Zed, and Rengar will also like it but unlikely as a first item.

Critmaster GarenApr 10, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You do realize 50 AD to 40 AD = 10 right OP and this guy? The new Black Cleaver is incredibly useful on just about any bruiser. Assassins like Talon, Kha Zix, Zed, and Rengar will also like it but unlikely as a first item.

for some reason i though it was at 55ad right now. shit happens. id still prefer if they raised the gold cost back to the current value and put those 10 ad back on.

and youre kindof wrong. the flat armor pen is more useful for assassins who go for squishies. against that ad carry with 100 armor, the 10 flat upfront are worth more than that extra 5% shred. the higher shred is more useful for extended fights against high armored targets. so probably more useful for bruisers.