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I would like to disable my surrender option and then be grouped with players who do the same.

Uiru··84 votes·6,846 views

There is nothing more disheartening than the guy who sees the score down by seven and gives up. That guy then feeds, doesn't ward, runs in 1v3, and does a lot of other stupid things to turn your possible defeat into an absolute certainty. Because he has given up.

Just then I won a game (it was all me, baby) because the enemy, who had gone from 1/7 to 47/35 by the end of it, overstayed once. ONCE. We had two inhibs down, they had two bare but 100% inhibs, and our team was obviously getting outplayed left and right. We were giving away dragons like it was halloween and dragons were made of delicious candy that we had had enough of. They had at least two barons. Nobody was warding, nobody focused their adc, our adc was just happy to be there, we had a suicide Riven who seems to be on every team I get matched with these days, the whole thing was dire. Then three of them fucked up and died to our nexus turrets. Three of US blitzed their base, got the inhibs, then ran back to continue turtling. That was the foothold we needed to outlast them, and victory came to the unlikeliest of teams. (There were winions!)

I think there were two surrender votes (1/4 both times).

At this point, you are surely snorting in disbelief. Your monocle has undoubtedly fallen into your tea. "But this sort of thing is the exception, not the rule!" you haughtily retort. The thing is, it doesn't have to be. People think they lose when they're down a few kills and then they go out of their way to make it happen. They don't realize that they would win a lot more, and climb a lot faster, if "make this game end as soon as possible either way" would be replaced by "stop making this any worse and wait for them to make a mistake". Because they're going to. Everybody throws in League- your job as the defending team is to be ready for it, and you don't do that by feeding, or raging, or afk'ing, or crying for reports when it's your damn fault we're in this mess in the first place.

You never surrender in ranked. If I made a poll regarding this, there would be people agreeing with me, and there would be people disagreeing with me. All I want is to be matched with the people who agree with me, and this can be achieved via disabling the surrender option. Because YOU NEVER SURRENDER IN RANKED. Putting it simply, if you believe comebacks are impossible in most cases, you are probably contributing to why that is, and I don't want to carry your ass to victories you don't deserve.

edit: Some deets: Gametime: 1:04:29 Enemy gold lead: began at 26 mins, peak 12.3k at 1:03, ended 9.6k Ally scores: Lux 11/9/12, Riven 14/11/13, Janna (me) 0/8/21, Rammus 4/10/16, Lucian 6/9/14 Enemy scores: Jinx 17/6/16, Shen 3/9/27, Viktor 8/5/25, Warwick 14/6/22, Thresh 5/9/33 (so you know when I say dire, I mean -dire-)

And we WON THAT. Because everybody kept trying, and was able to capitalize on their throw.

edit2: A lot of replies seem to think that this is a separate queue. I don't think it has to be. Matchmaking will sort ten random people by rank, and then, if it notices that it can fairly put the no surrenders on one side, will do that. There has been mention that this would screw up matchmaking even more, which I don't believe is possible given the mess that is the current matchmaker. There could even be another option with "don't match me with no surrenders" if you really like surrendering.

[ ] Disable my surrender and match me with others who do [ ] Enable my surrender and don't match me with others who disable theirs [x] Enable my surrender and match me with whoever (default)

In all cases, the matchmaker will make a best effort attempt (if you get matched with eight no surrenders, you're probably going to have to learn to close out a game).

edit3: Won another unwinnable game. I was 1/18/33 Janna. You should have seen the other guy. This one I credit to both our team not giving up in general, and our adc knowing how to right click. (There are some amazingly bad adcs in silver I!) Azir helped. Some people in the comments are questioning for my main, as this is obviously a level seven NA smurf. It's Uiraya on LAN if you'd like to check this out. We actually took the gold lead at halftime this time, but with the difference in kills and towers you'd think it was uphill the whole way. Five dragons! Would have been six if Draven hadn't given one away...

edit3.5: I just noticed the enemy Sona had 68.5% CDR. That explains a little.

edit4: I am pleased to announce that, after c&p'ing a short speech on how I was NOT going to surrender any given game prepared immediately after this post and used in all chats except the last, I went 9 and 3 and am now Gold V. Some of my teammates were baffled and annoyed. idgaf. Because I'm Gold V, and fucks are for silvers. 8)

The losses were:

  1. A near comeback, but Katarina is pretty high up there on Stupidest Design Ever list so she just has to keep slamming her face into her keyboard until it works
  2. An absolute stomp; it's not a morale issue when your bot gives up four kills and a tower before you have your second mana item (thanks for the pointless nerfs, Riot)
  3. A hilarious throw. It happens. They were ready.

19/16, 35 games total, landed in silver I. Won promo with a game to spare. Mostly Janna, then Sejuani, then my poor Lux, neglected and alone. (All she wanted was some mana regen! But some midlaners are more equal (and more energy-based) than others.) Time to go play normals with the diamonds and plats again :p ~Uiru

86 Comments

xSyndicate11 votes

IKR, i jsut had a game where our jinx said ff's gg at 4 mins, its f-ing ridiculous .

redniwediS8 votes

League is a game. Ranked is a game mode in a game. Games are meant to be fun in one way or another, and in the case of League that fun comes from competing with other players. When a game stops being fun people typically stop playing it. League is not a job and so it should not be treated with the seriousness of one. The "never surrender" crowd act like a little friendly competition is equivalent to a life or death situation.

That said there is already a mode where you can be matched with people who think the way you do. It's called Ranked 5s. Solo Queue is the queue where you get matched with random people, team ranked is where you get people who are like you. If you're unwilling to use the provided queue that matches what you're after perhaps you should not be complaining.

Uiru11 votes

{quoted}

League is a game. Ranked is a game mode in a game. Games are meant to be fun in one way or another, and in the case of League that fun comes from competing with other players. When a game stops being fun people typically stop playing it. League is not a job and so it should not be treated with the seriousness of one. The "never surrender" crowd act like a little friendly competition is equivalent to a life or death situation.

That said there is already a mode where you can be matched with people who think the way you do. It's called Ranked 5s. Solo Queue is the queue where you get matched with random people, team ranked is where you get people who are like you. If you're unwilling to use the provided queue that matches what you're after perhaps you should not be complaining.

So you are playing ranked instead of normals because...?

This is a team game and in all modes you have a responsibility to your teammates. If you are not willing to play by that basic fact then you need to find a different game entirely. ~Uiru

redniwediS2 votes

I occasionally play Solo Queue, but I mostly play premade normals and Ranked 5s because I hate playing with random people.

I can easily turn your argument around, since surrender votes are part of League, and if you're not willing to play with this basic feature then you need to find a different game entirely. You are the one proposing a change to the current system, and so you have to convincingly state why this needs to change.

You're saying it should change and complaining about it, not saying why the devs should take the time out of their day to remove something that bothers a minority of players.

Uiru8 votes

{quoted}

I occasionally play Solo Queue, but I mostly play premade normals and Ranked 5s because I hate playing with random people.

I can easily turn your argument around, since surrender votes are part of League, and if you're not willing to play with this basic feature then you need to find a different game entirely. You are the one proposing a change to the current system, and so you have to convincingly state why this needs to change.

You're saying it should change and complaining about it, not saying why the devs should take the time out of their day to remove something that bothers a minority of players.

Nothing would please me more than to find a team and never play solo q again, but contraints on my time simply don't allow it.

I want people on my team who don't give up at the first sign of trouble. This is because I want to win, which is what I thought was the purpose of ranked in the first place. While straight up removing the surrender option would improve things considerably, I recognize that that would be an unpopular move, so an option would suffice.

As an aside, I hope these downvoters aren't the same crowd who cry about elo hell. ~Uiru

Kitten of Evil1 votes

I don't think suggesting an optional self-imposed constraint is really such a drastic change that it has to be "needed." People could use this or choose not to use it for whatever reason. Personally, I wouldn't join a "no-surrenders" queue but I see no harm in the option.

redniwediS2 votes

If a change is going to happen it needs a purpose beyond a minority of players wanting it (unless it brings in money aka skins). So far no reason for this change beyond this has been provided.

I'm not personally for or against this, I just want someone who is for it to think and find a way of saying it that could start a legitimate discussion, or even get it noticed by the devs. Why is this change worth their time?

Silents4298 votes

Kay.

Everyone has been in those games where you keep trying to surrender but end up winning, the games generally take longer, you take it more serious, and usually its rewarding to end up winning.

The thing is, I hate that. I really truly hate that, I surrender when I can't think of any way to outplay the team, and no having 1 person split push isn't a way to outplay them to me, If the game is one sided, and the chances are slim, I stop having fun and so do other people, no one is happy to be playing and they just want to start over.

I don't like try harding everything, and I don't like that one team mate in denial that we don't have this game, Quite frankly MAYBE we could possibly on a slim chance win, but I am not spending an hour each game to find out if thats the case, Its more unfair to your team wanting to surrender then it is to you and your precious ego "I CAN TOTALLY CARRY US GUYS! JUST KEEP ME ALIVE AND LET ME WASTE YOUR NEXT 40 MINUTES!"

I am not quite sure why you would want a separate queue just because of the rare occurrences you are experiencing but that would be an absolutely stupid idea. "Lets make another queue, to make queue times longer, just because I can't convince 1 other person on my team to click no."

Is getting like 70IP instead of 120IP really a big deal? Do you think people go look at your match history and judge you based on your win ratio?

Get over it.

Caezium7 votes

It isn't about having 1 other person click no necessarily, it's about making sure 1 person doesn't give up and suicide/afk to shorten the game. That kind of mentality is boring and makes it significantly harder, if not impossible to win while even slightly behind. It isn't really uncommon for 1/5 of your team to just decide it is over and make sure it is.

People don't judge you based on your win ratio, but however people commonly judge you if you are bronze. (as far as I can tell)

Silents4294 votes

Adding a new queue just to have surrender disabled isn't going to fix this, I would call you a liar if you haven't had games you just wanted to end, and it would happen just the same if not more often if surrender option were to be gone. You want the game to end so you try a little less hard and the balance swings further in their favor.

A new queue is unneeded and the drama surrounding the surrender vote is excessive, and only morons think rank means anything, its just grinding games to get a better title for yourself.

MidEvilKnight3k2 votes

Higher rank means you are going to play with better players and you will probably get better yourself, which is a large point of this game for a lot of people.

Also, I, and a lot of other people, can have fun while losing. It's often trying to win from behind that can be the most fun, and not only when you actually get the win. And it is very frustrating when my team takes that away from me by surrendering.

There definitely is a point where surrenders are ok, like someone on your team is afk or purposefully feeding.

Silents4291 votes

This is ridiculous, People want to surrender will surrender, if they don't feel like trying as hard then good for them, you are not going to make them do otherwise, or prove they are.

You can't force them to try harder either, sometimes the motivation just slips away, sometimes people are put on tilt and can't focus, other times they get pitted against a fed Katerina or Riven and yell "Bullshit!" at the screen and just want to end the game.

Losing 1 game isn't going to set you back anywhere chances are if your entire team wants to end you weren't going to win anyway, And I don't care if you have carried before the chances of those comebacks isn't nearly as common as anyone thinks. If you think someone feeding or simply not being their is the only time a surrender is a good time, then you need to quit being in denial, because a hell of a lot more reasons exist to surrender.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a392 votes

{quoted}

This is ridiculous, People want to surrender will surrender, if they don't feel like trying as hard then good for them, you are not going to make them do otherwise, or prove they are.

You can't force them to try harder either, sometimes the motivation just slips away, sometimes people are put on tilt and can't focus, other times they get pitted against a fed Katerina or Riven and yell "Bullshit!" at the screen and just want to end the game.

Losing 1 game isn't going to set you back anywhere chances are if your entire team wants to end you weren't going to win anyway, And I don't care if you have carried before the chances of those comebacks isn't nearly as common as anyone thinks. If you think someone feeding or simply not being their is the only time a surrender is a good time, then you need to quit being in denial, because a hell of a lot more reasons exist to surrender.

The suggestion is optional though. No one is forcing others anything.

Silents4291 votes

Except they want a separate queue where it isn't optional, their isn't even an option. Which is moronic.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

Except they want a separate queue where it isn't optional, their isn't even an option. Which is moronic.

There are two queues for you to choose. If you want surrender available, just queue the original one. It is optional.

Silents4291 votes

Splitting the queue up even further is moronic, it means longer queue times for everyone.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

Splitting the queue up even further is moronic, it means longer queue times for everyone.

I didn't say anything about the longer queue though.

Since you changed the topic, I believe you agreed that no one was forcing others anything. You failed reading.

Silents4291 votes

Of course you didn't you imply having a second queue for those who don't want surrender, And I pointed out how that was stupid because longer queue times for everyone.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

Of course you didn't you imply having a second queue for those who don't want surrender, And I pointed out how that was stupid because longer queue times for everyone.

And then proceed to change the topic. How about you admit you misread what the OP said?

Silents4291 votes

He wants to be grouped with people who also have surrender disabled. This is re-reading what he said. And again. In case your too damn slow, I said that would be bad because queue times would be much longer.

IS1a442cd69a169ed293a391 votes

{quoted}

He wants to be grouped with people who also have surrender disabled. This is re-reading what he said. And again. In case your too damn slow, I said that would be bad because queue times would be much longer.

You point earlier suggested the quene wasn't optional. That's what I was addressing, not about the longer queue.

Silents4291 votes

"Except they want a separate queue where it isn't optional, their isn't even an option. Which is moronic."

If you meant this, I meant in the optional queue, Because even the people that would be for this separate queue have wanted to surrender before.

Or in the case of an AFK or someone actually feeding.

MidEvilKnight3k1 votes

I guess I should have included one more case where I surrender, it is when the attitude of your teammates has degraded, it does not have to do with how far behind you are.

From my experience the amount of time between we have a chance of winning and I want to try and we are losing right now and there is no point of surrendering is not very long. So for the most part I surrender when someone AFKs, DCs, or the rest of the team has given up or started raging.

GaleWinUnleashed5 votes

Trying to surrender is fine. Trashing any chance of a comeback because you no longer care is not.

JevelFaithful2 votes

{quoted}

LET ME WASTE YOUR NEXT 40 MINUTES!"

Is getting like 70IP instead of 120IP really a big deal? Do you think people go look at your match history and judge you based on your win ratio? Get over it.

Not to be a prick : but 40 minute is the time a short game usually takes in you count queuing+champSelect+loading. So tell me, if both action take the same time in your life, do you prefer a win or a win plus a loss.

On a personnal note, coming back is half the fun of the game. Of course, some are just lost. At that point I just see what we can do even if we loose. Because just winning that 1 fight by outplaying is worth it. Even if the score is 1/7 by 15 minute, you can still outplay the other team and actually turn it around. That is what those late-game composition (the ones that ask that you waste your next 40 minutes on them) is about.

On your last point, people sometimes DO look at your match history on the forum. In ranked, your LP number also looks at your win ratio. So does your promotion. So does your MMR. So your last point is actually completely invalid. (in ranked at least.

FastAsHeck2 votes

Is getting like 70IP instead of 120IP really a big deal? Do you think people go look at your match history and judge you based on your win ratio?

Get over it.

its not about the IP, its about sending a message

Hyrum Graff7 votes

I'd like to add on another negative consequence of this "surrender early" mentality: teams don't know how to close out games.

So often, an early lead turns into an enemy's surrender, that a lot of people simply don't have much experience closing out games. This is one of the reasons why late-game champs are so effective in lower elos, IMO, is because if you stall, your opponents will often simply let you.

Provengreil5 votes

I came back once, from an hour and ten minute losing streak (Season 4, so continuous dragon losses and so on were just gold). We'd caught up to them pretty much by getting so much passive gold that we equaled their builds anyway. No inhibs (we'd spent the alst 3 minutes desperately clearing super minions), 85 second death timers, the works. they're coming with a baron buff for the kill. their blitz gets a clear shot on graves, amumu flashes in, ults on arrival. we win.

And I hated every stupid minute of the match past 15 minutes when we were 1/12 and 2 turrets down.

In my view, not surrendering while hoping for a magic throw is reserved for tournaments, promos, and nothing else. it's just a waste of time, and can easily be seen as rude.

Stonington3 votes

I like putting up the surrender vote when we're winning and throwing a game just to piss off my team in order to win the game.

Quil Evrything3 votes

YES! YES! I want this option so badly!!

Not because I want to use it... but because all those annoying idiots who refuse to surrender in a hopeless match, will go THERE, and stop being matched with ME!!

Salt and Veigar2 votes

Sounds like something that would lengthen queue times and skew matchmaking even more

Raptamei2 votes

Ok, I'll join your no-surrender mode and afk from the start. Enjoy the next 40 minutes.

Sinlaire2 votes

I for one agree with OP. It should be that you have the option to select "never surrender" and be matched with like minded individuals if possible.

FOR RANKED ONLY

ranked is for serious players playing seriously in all seriousness. generally. to put it bluntly if you don't have the stones to play a full game win or lose then gtfo and go back to normals imo.

Anrui2 votes

Though usually I am against surrendering due to already stated reasons, there are times when I certainly click yes. Some games can feel soul-crushingly hopeless. In some games where I might feel this way and surrender votes don't fall through (or even if I am clicking no but my team has given up). I still find things to do. I still give effort regardless, though I play a lot more cautiously (such as avoiding dark areas of the map and not pushing too far).

When a game feels lost to me, I don't quit trying, feed, or afk. I focus on the little things. I focus on farming. I practice orb walking if I'm playing ADC etc etc. Though I don't keep trying to win the game, I just focus more on the little things and improving my own play for future games. Like this Lux support I had once (who was playing really well considering the dire circumstances our team was in) after I gave her props after stealing a blue from the enemy. She said, "In a game like this it's the little things like this that keep me going." I feel that that is certainly true.

Plus, if you're in a really bad game (or any game at all)...Instead of blaming your teammates just focus on yourself instead. Yes, League is a team game. But you can't help if your ally consistently chases the enemy support alone into the entire enemy team. Or if your mid laner thinks that this time going all in for the 7th time on the already fed Ahri is going to be different and change things. You can't control the decisions and moves of other people in game. Sure pings and suggestions can influence that but all of that is moot if they don't pay attention. (Seriously if more people listened to DANGER pings...)

ChrisB52 votes

Recently my duo queue and I refused to surrender a game. It was something around 20-35 and they were obliterating. Allies didn't know how to group and I kept explaining if we stop roaming and start grouping as a team, we'd win! After about 10-15mins of repeating myself, WE FINALLY GROUPED. The enemy went in diving to our nexus towers. We got two AOE cc ults out, and obliterated, followed by a near ace. We pushed up to inhib and barely claimed the victory. My duo and I were so happy, knowing we were the only two clicking no on surrender. I've had some amazing comebacks and get sick and tired of people trying to surrender the instant they fall behind. I'd love this feature...

FastAsHeck2 votes

wow, the stupid people in the comments are real. IF YOU WANT SURRENDER ENABLED YOU WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO PLAY NORMAL QUEUE!!! i think the 2 queues could be mixed up too, it doesnt matter for the enemy if you want to surrender or not. just for matchmaking time.

EverTokki2 votes

True. While some people don't want to waste their time on long games, some players believe that the key is late game when all has their core items up. I like to do that too, and when I surrender, that's the time I really really think we wouldn't win the game. I'd like this mode. I believe in miracles of late games.

TheWins2 votes

Being down 7 kills does not make the game an instant lose, but what you failed to mention was what was the tower count like. Just how many Dragons did you give up? The never surrender folks are generally blind to games that are certainly over. There is nothing more annoying that a crowd of people who will not surrender a match that is clearly over and keep feeding the enemy stats. They put the surrender function in for a reason. BECAUSE SOME GAMES YOU KNOW YOU HAVE LOST AND YOU CAN MOVE ON.

ArcaneFox2 votes

I agree. That is my rule too. In normals I usually wont surrender unless the game stops being fun. In ranked, NEVER surrender!! You never know, and when a game goes on longer, those death timers give you huge opportunities. I wish surrender was disbaled in ranked OR the threshhold was longer, even making it 30 minutes would be better, it may have people try a bit harder if they are down instead of having a bad start and think in their head "ok this game is surrender at 20, idc anymore"

Malix Farwin1 votes

Ranked i can generally understand why people do not surrender but if it is a 20 game lead, all turrets pushed while they still have all but 1 turret with a nasus then why are we still playing. Also i generally dont like being stuck in long hopeless games in normals where the premade 2 people are the ones stopping the surrender.

MidEvilKnight3k2 votes

They will still make mistakes. Don't surrender if the game is going to end soon anyway. Something surprising might happen at the very end and you have a chance again.

speak with tree1 votes

IMO, the surrender option is for when the enemy team is up by 20 kills, 3 dragons, 5 towers, and a baron, or some other insurmountable lead. It's not for people who die twice then want to ragequit.

maikokk1 votes

said scenario is not insurmountable unless you are plat+ , even then im sure a comeback happens once in a while. turtle stall wins so many games in gold and below.

Sukishoo1 votes

hide in that level 7 more.

Uiru2 votes

{quoted}

hide in that level 7 more.

Main is Uiraya on LAN. I'll come home when Riot moves the servers closer to me (I am so east coast I make east coast look central). ~Uiru

bulldoggamer1 votes

I personally love the idea. I would love a team of fellow people who refuse to give up till the end. I'm sick and tired of seeing ff at 20 at flipping 5 min in the game just because someone dies 3 times in lane. I play a lot of late game champs and never get the chance to late game because of people who tuck tail at the first sign of danger. So i would be down for that, or just an adjustment to the matchmaking to match people with a similar voting history.

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

At this point, you are surely snorting in disbelief. Your monocle has undoubtedly fallen into your tea. "But this sort of thing is the exception, not the rule!" you haughtily retort.

haha great!

Hinagiku331 votes

Strangely, in normals I almost NEVER have either team surrender. I think we're just too stupid to quit this far down. We drag out games ALL THE DAMN TIME because everyone picks late game champs and dammit no one wants to finish until they get a full 6 item build.

Yet when I tried ranked, people seemed more concerned with "wasting time" and most games end in surrender. In the mode where winning is literally everything and losing actually punishes you.

I still remember Season 2 back when early game champs were a thing and you could legitimately take out the enemy nexus around 20 minutes. It made sense back then since they could be knocking on your nexus while you had maybe one of their towers down. And even then people treated surrendering as a bad move since if you could turtle and stall them you'd out-scale them and win.

Why does ranked even have a surrender option? I feel like it just encourages idiocy...

Bresn1 votes

We don't need this if Riot simply makes the game detect a ridiculous score like 4 v 5 with 1 v 50 and automatically end the game, especially with 1 or more AFKs.

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