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What was achieved by giving On-Hit junglers AP ratios?

v good pupper·7/14/2016, 7:15:46 PM·8 votes·814 views

In patch 6.10 Master Yi, Nocturne, and Shyvana were given AP ratios, or had their AP ratios increased. The rational for this was that these champs should benefit more from incidental AP on items and from buffs such as Baron buff, and to lessen their weakness against armor. The underlying rational was likely to make Guinsoo's Rageblade a more palatable purchase on them for the Phantom Hit passive; as these champions don't make much use of the AP on the item.

Since then, in patch 6.13, Champion.gg shows that none of these champions are commonly making use of Guinsoo's Rageblade. This is likely because Guinsoo's has become an expensive luxury item. Given that, the only AP these champions get is from the Natural Talent mastery, or Baron buff.

The AP buffs for Master Yi, Nocturne, and Shyvana don't appear to have benefited these champions in any way. Shyvana's and Nocturne's win rates decreased, while Master Yi's increased by about 2%; likely in thanks to the buff on his E. This to some degree illustrates how ineffectual these AP ratio buffs were.

While the AP ratio buffs certainly haven't done Master Yi, Nocturne, and Shyvana any harm; it's doubtful they were in any way successful. Another kind of buff could have been much more successful, such as increasing their synergies with on-hit items in some way. This feels like a very weird change that Riot simply forgot about after it had no effect. I struggle to see what was actually achieved by these AP ratio buffs.

14 Comments

Sire Hippington7/14/2016, 8:25:36 PM4 votes

It was an atempt to make guinsoo's more usfull for those(helping the item aswell, not only the champs), but riot simply failes to see that a 3600g item with pure off-stats(not even lifesteal/on-hit heal) is already a rather bad purchase for a champ that has to get right into the oppsing team and stay there, and that gateing the majority of the items power behind stacks that need 6 AAs just means no melee will ever be able to use the item unless snowballing/splitpushing only, as getting 6AAs of as a melee in a teamfight already is complicated and usually means you succeded at killing a squishy, and paired with the 3600g for no def stats it's just all the more likely to die befor getting those stacks up and actually useing them.

The old guinsoo's was usefull cause it gave more raw combatpower on it's own for less gold and stacked up faster, makeing it a usefull with no other off items or only devourer so you could get tank stuff on top of it rather fast. Now it does little without any other on-hit item and costs a ton while needing to loong to stack.

So yea, the ap ratios prettymuch did nothing, but on the other hand, they also did no harm either, so nice for the few occasion on which you get ap without any draw backs else, and those champs recived some buffs later(granted, riot takes alot time on that, like so often, but i don't think that would be any different without the ap-ratio buffs).

Schàdenfreude7/14/2016, 8:10:20 PM2 votes

They wanted the ap on guinsoo's to actually do soemthing lel.

GerAvos7/14/2016, 7:31:32 PM2 votes

Well whats wrong with some AP ratios, I like it even if they don't really make use of it.

fullbacks637/14/2016, 7:30:15 PM2 votes

I find critical strike on yi to be amazing. item 3031 item 3087 item 3072 item 3508 item 3074 item 3006 .

The time it takes on rageblade/bork build to build it, and do damage over time, is too long. With this yi build I can q an adc and take 50% of their life or more away.

Silly Neeko7/14/2016, 8:08:23 PM1 votes

It was also because of Blue buff..... while at a certain point your passing it over to mid laners etc, it has that slight boost still..... not very effective, but if you can utilize it, good. If not, what harm has it done? Not very much tbh.

I mean no offence to this but you seem to be putting a pessimistic view on this.... glass half empty rather than half full kinda thing :p

Sahn Uzal7/14/2016, 7:30:41 PM1 votes

But people get to do some fun builds now :P Nocturne item 1419 item 3009 item 3124 item 3115 item 3157 item 3091 sounds kinda fun :P

PiVoRx7/15/2016, 12:40:07 PM1 votes

I never considered ap ratios on those champions any valid reason to go ap, like what Yi benefits from it? Stronger Meditate? Please..

After 2 years of playing LoL i came to a conclusion that attack speed junglers have no right to live in this game, always outclassed and outpicked (in LCS especially) by ap/utility/tank based ones, they provide no real value to their team and since objective control now requires teamwork theres no reason to use any attack speed based jungler.

Riot never gives them enough attention unless they become too strong accidentally (rip devourer+guinsoo), and once one steps out of the line gets instantly gutted or given pointless buffs like ap ratios that makes 0 sense for champions that has their damage attacks speed based.