When is Riot going to fess up and admit the Juggernaut reworks were all failures on some level?

v good pupper·Apr 3, 2016·5 votes·698 views

Every single Juggernaut rework, and even the Juggernaut champion, are failures on some level. Every single one of them has over tuned stats, glaring gameplay health issues, and incredibly low skill floors for their outputs. There is not a single Juggernaut that comes close to healthy.

The reworks were just tacking on stats to unhealthy and failed champion designs in hopes they would brute force their way to success. In Mordekaiser's case, they recognized his kit was so unhealthy that they tried to cover it up by making him an ADC, even then brute forcing it.

The Juggernaut reworks were lazy and failures. There was no attempt to fix the champions in any positive way. They just tacked on stats and prayed they would see play again. It was pathetic and Riot should just admit it.

14 Comments

I am PacmanApr 3, 20164 votes

What? If you want to complain about juggernauts then you about 8 months to late. At the time of their release they did admit soon after that they fcked up and then proceeded to nerf garen, darius, skarner and mord back in to a balanced state. It took a while but all garen, darius and skarner are all fine champions now. None of them are unhealthy for the game in their current state.

Mord has a whole other set of problems due to his rework itself kinda being messed up but riot still already admitted that and have looked for feedback on him and are probably going to change him again eventually.

CrettApr 3, 20161 votes

They did mention a VGU for Morde eventually

Nameless VoiceApr 3, 20161 votes

I don't know, I'm still not convinced that "stay away from them or you will die and you can never kill them so don't bother trying" is a healthy design.

Because that's what those guys feel like to me if I'm playing a squishy champion, especially a short-ranged one.

Big LincolnApr 3, 20161 votes

Tanky, slow-moving duelist is a healthy design.

Being a squishy champion vs anybody with high base damage is asking to get stomped. Juggernauts aren't exclusive to this.

SintamaApr 3, 20162 votes

Everything they do is a complete failure.

RalanrApr 3, 20162 votes

Garen and Darius turned out fine.

Best KhaZix VoidApr 3, 20161 votes

because usually riot doesn't admit to things that aren't true.

CoolKnightSTApr 3, 20161 votes

Juggernauts was one of the best things they could do. It's a theme that not many games have tried. They basicly are lategame AD damage dealers.

What worries more is how many champions they are going to label as a juggernaut. Poppy was labeled juggernaut and already is on the edge of the limitations from the class.

Some good examples of champion that need the juggernaut discussion is Aatrox Olaf Volibear Hecarim JarvanIV Renekton , ... Some of them are to mobile to be a juggernaut while others have to much focus of their damage in burst damage. Than we have Aatrox with some strange attackspeed scaling what make it really difficult to define it's class.

Since the juggernauts is the first item class that is officially defined in the game it's kinda hard to tell where we should drawn the line.

Currently the official juggernauts add the moment are: Darius Garen Illaoi Nasus Poppy Skarner

Illâoi Evê SiônApr 3, 20161 votes

You're missing Volibear, Trundle, and Mordekaiser on your "official" list. Also, Poppy isn't a Juggernaut. She's a Tank.

CoolKnightSTApr 4, 20161 votes

I'm pretty sure Volibear is a Juggernaut. But Trundle has never been officiale stated as a Juggernaut. Morde was the one I forgot.

Poppy is a juggernaut in the official description of the rework notes.

RalanrApr 4, 20161 votes

Care to link that description? I think she's a tank.

Illâoi Evê SiônApr 4, 20161 votes

RiotScruffy considers (or once considered) Trundle to be a Juggernaut, although most of his damage does come from a light fighter playstyle (basic attacks).

I am PacmanApr 3, 20161 votes

You can't expect to do well with any champion against the rest of the champion pool. Some champions do better against others. The same goes for champion classes and roles in general. Squishy short range champs aren't supposed to do well against equally short range tanky champs.

Juggernauts have pretty clearly defined strengths and weaknesses you can play around no matter which side you are on. They are all short range, lack mobility and cc.

Their biggest weakness is that it is hard to get to you, especially if there is any kind of slow or stun in your kit. They have to make up for it buy either playing smart (hiding in bushes, outflanking etc) or rely on their team to get you in range for them (get sej ultied and then they can just walk up to you)

They are also easy to catch out and gank top lane, however on the flip side most of them have something that will allow them to 1v2 if they can pull it off (darius 5 stacks and ultis, Illoi ulti, Garen w to mirigate damage and survive long enough to get away or ulti)

On a side note: This probably wasn't intentional given how long ago voli was released but have you noticed that he fits pretty much everything a juggernaut has? He is relativly low mobility (got the same sort of speed up as garen with flip instead of silence), is tanky as fuck but mostly brings his damage to fights wtih w and r. He even has his passive as the 1v2 ability.

IncognonymousApr 3, 20161 votes

Gameplay is notorious for being both wrong and dumb, but this has to be the wrongest and dumbest. Even the juggernaut patch was more of a symptom of peoples' ignorance than juggernaut strength. Once people learned how to deal with them, juggernauts literally became the most easily mitigatible class in the entire fucking game.

They cannot force you to play their game, so don't. Congratulations, you just beat a juggernaut.