Playing against Fiora with 2 lifesteal items and a GA...

option paralysis·May 10, 2017·104 votes·6,918 views

Hmmmm, even exhaust doesn't work against her, cuz true dmg. And the healing she gets from those items and passive... puke

175 Comments

DarkRitualMay 10, 201740 votes

If only a mechanic existed that reduced healing effects, and a mechanic that allowed teams to group up on strong splitpushers and take them down.

If only...

kagepaladinMay 10, 20172 votes

well she can parry ignite so that removes that part of reduced healing effects and is grievous wounds still a thing?

JoxcabMay 10, 201743 votes

The only way to parry Ignite is to predict it. Or hope they're a fucking idiot and use it while you're in the parry animation. It's instant cast.

LordGeovanniMay 10, 2017

Pretty hard to predict when ignite is going to be used when it is only used when the enemy is at critically low health and if it is used before then you lose out on stopping the healing before whe dies. The trick is getting fiora to low health in the first place you can blow all your cooldowns and she will just heal it before they come back up unless you some one like mordekaiser. Funny how fiora can get a pass for being a duelist same way darius gets a pass for being a bully (dunkmaster skin anyone though academy is more fitting) when they beat out every other character with the same nieche

aceknighthighMay 10, 201715 votes

Maybe try using ignite to decrease her healing before she gets low, as otherwise you aren't getting the maximum benefit, and you risk it getting parried.

Fiora does not beat out a good pantheon in any way shape or form.

5000000000000000May 11, 20171 votes

How can Pantheon win against Fiora?

AlygrivMay 11, 20175 votes

Literally by existing. You absolutely wreck Fiora in lane. She can do absolutely nothing against your spear spam and you win any all in because your block prevents damage and healing from vitals.

TheSingularityMay 10, 20172 votes

I've built executioners plenty against her but her heals are overwhelming at that point. You'd be better off using that slot to try and out damage her

DarthsteeleMay 11, 20173 votes

If only an 800 gold item existed that could apply grievous wounds every auto attack. Oh wait...

It does! anybody even a tank who has executioners calling will trade infinitely better and usually beat a fiora if they buy it. I know it sucks when people actually have a brain because I'm a fiora main. One would almost think its disgusting that an item that can negate any heal heavy champ: vlad, fiora, irelia, illaoi, any adc, and a bunch of others with an 800 gold investment that usually never loses its use and only becomes more effective.

LOSINGISMYPRIDEMay 11, 20174 votes

if only there was a item who would reduce true damage . Oh wait it doesnt exist fck [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Skins ProjectMay 11, 20174 votes

Right...

Because what's the point of true damage again?

...

RozzetaMay 11, 20172 votes

The issue is that True Damage only works under capitalism. The comunist true damage, dealing the same proportional damage regardless of your HP investments, is a real problem to the LoL Player dream.

Sp33d Zer0May 10, 201721 votes

That build is great for dueling people, but it is pretty poor against team fights. Try grouping with your team and if she splits, force the 4v5 fight and take more objectives than she does due to your numbers advantage.

An Undead bratMay 10, 20176 votes

Tell that to teammates in SoloQ.

Sp33d Zer0May 10, 20172 votes

I do. It usually results in 4 dead enemies and us taking two towers in the time it takes her to take one.

An Undead bratMay 10, 20173 votes

Congrats, my greatest success was Warwick running across the whole map with his W on just to die 1v4 and the rest of my team getting 3v1 owned by said Fiora.

Dasdi96May 10, 201712 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzOUjkFk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-10T16:27:41.109+0000)

That build is great for dueling people, but it is pretty poor against team fights. Try grouping with your team and if she splits, force the 4v5 fight and take more objectives than she does due to your numbers advantage.

Then you realize she can drain tank your entire team with lifesteal + dd passive + ult healing.

Sp33d Zer0May 10, 201710 votes

I do realize what she is capable of. I also know that she is still killable at 6 items. Have your ADC pick up an executioners calling and CC her. Sure, she has her w for telegraphed CC, but if you have a lulu poly, a blitz knock up, or can bait it, hell in a team fight stuff is hectic and she may not even see the CC, you can chain her super easily for a kill.

It works in plat against much better Fioras than in high bronze/ low silver (not trying to insult you), it should work in lower tiers as well.

Every champion in the game can be over bearing with certain items, it is a matter of learning how to deal with them.

option paralysisMay 10, 20179 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzOUjkFk,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-05-10T16:45:16.510+0000)

I do realize what she is capable of. I also know that she is still killable at 6 items. Have your ADC pick up an executioners calling and CC her. Sure, she has her w for telegraphed CC, but if you have a lulu poly, a blitz knock up, or can bait it, hell in a team fight stuff is hectic and she may not even see the CC, you can chain her super easily for a kill.

It works in plat against much better Fioras than in high bronze/ low silver (not trying to insult you), it should work in lower tiers as well.

Every champion in the game can be over bearing with certain items, it is a matter of learning how to deal with them.

Good advices, but you gotta remember there are 4 other people you gotta watch out for in a teamfight... You can't 1v1 her after couple items since everybodys argument is that she's a "grand duelist" ok then... but then she comes in a teamfight with 4 other people and drain tanks shitload then if she gets her ult off, you can't kill her. Don't say that in higher elo people can deal with her, Revenge literally got rank 1 with spamming fiora, so....

Sp33d Zer0May 10, 20179 votes

People have gotten to rank one with every champion at one point or another. That argument is invalid. If you do want to continue with that argument though, from what I have seen Revenge primarily sticks to small skirmishes and split pushes, not big 5 on 5 teamfights. When he does teamfight in a 5v5, it is usually after he has such a lead on his enemy top laner that it is actually closer to a 5v4

Second, this is exactly like saying that you can't focus Graves because he can drain tank you with those exact same items. If Graves cannot attack, he cannot heal. If he cannot heal, he cannot Drain. If he cannot Drain, he cannot tank. A fiora in the top lane in this current meta means there is likely no tank on the team as the jungle is dominated by carries and the support role is dominated by enchanters and mages. As long as you have some semblance of a tanky front line and your ADC picks up an executioner's, she will not only be able to heal for less, for she will likely die quicker than your tank which will allow your team to turn onto the other squishy members of the enemy team.

I will admit that Fiora is overtuned right now because of the item changes. I am not trying to deny that. There is hard numbers to support it. I am saying she is a lot easier to deal with than people give credit.

LordGeovanniMay 10, 20176 votes

Show me the overbearing taric items

Sp33d Zer0May 10, 20172 votes

Redemption locket right now stalls amazingly for his ult to trigger, along with knights vow mitigating and face providing targeted shielding. I'd you need I can also remind you of pre-rework taric who was permabanned because of his abuse of gauntlet sunfire thornmail core with pure armor rubbed giving his AD 80-95 armor on the laning phase before he got the items

LordGeovanniMay 10, 20173 votes

No one fights tarics ult they just run when it activates but if you dont activate it when the fight starts your team is 4v5 and you mostlikely lose your carry before it falls. I mained pre rework taric if i ever saw him banned in the year before he was reworked it was only twice

Smitty ManjensenMay 10, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzOUjkFk,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-05-10T16:45:16.510+0000)

I do realize what she is capable of. I also know that she is still killable at 6 items. Have your ADC pick up an executioners calling and CC her. Sure, she has her w for telegraphed CC, but if you have a lulu poly, a blitz knock up, or can bait it, hell in a team fight stuff is hectic and she may not even see the CC, you can chain her super easily for a kill.

It works in plat against much better Fioras than in high bronze/ low silver (not trying to insult you), it should work in lower tiers as well.

Every champion in the game can be over bearing with certain items, it is a matter of learning how to deal with them.

Why do people like you always try to justify a champ by mentioning team fights? All the thing work fine, ccing her, having ex. Blitz try to bait it or lulu like you said, you just wasted potential 2 or 3 cc and nukes on 1 champion. Now people like you always forget that you're not fighting only Fiora, you have her whole team to worry about, if you have to waste that much cc and attention to 1 champion something there is flawed. And if they are not brain dead they will capitalize on you wasting your abilities on her, and even that doesn't guarantee that you will kill her.

DarthsteeleMay 11, 20172 votes

Because plenty of lane dominant champions are made balanced by their terrible teamfight if they can't happen to get fed and depending on the comp. A naut that protects his carries is going to beat an unfed renekton in a teamfight because he can shut down that diver. A fiora is not going to be as effective as a gangplank or a shen in teamfights because they are not designed to duel a champ and push a lane even though when fed they can, instead they are designed to help out the team when it is grouped

Unless Fiora dominated her lane it should be impossible for her to reach the carry before dying or getting cc-ed in any reasonable team unless she teleport flanked and fiora is by no means a flanker because in the same way she would die for lack of meaningful distance dashes, she lacks as dash that will carry her an actual distance. her q is just for repositioning her passive, small escapes, wall hops, or just generally resetting an auto attack.

Now as a fiora main i do think that one fact that makes her lane strong that is overlooked is the fact that fervor of battle gives 2 stacks on 1 q hit. so i 1 and an auto gets 3 stacks in around 1 second.

No champion is perfectly balanced and fiora is strong however the rework has been out for a while and plenty of people main champions. Personally, i usually win my fiora games however a lot of them happen to be games where i get crushed in lane and spend the next ten minutes farming without getting punshed elsewhere by the enemy team. Most of the time a fiora kills you and its surprisingl its either from the brush like any champion, the first time she's killed you, or if you beat her in lane and neglected the power her first two items she gets bring her after she farmed for a while. And once a fiora starts some momentum its hard to slow it down.

Smitty ManjensenMay 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because plenty of lane dominant champions are made balanced by their terrible teamfight if they can't happen to get fed and depending on the comp. A naut that protects his carries is going to beat an unfed renekton in a teamfight because he can shut down that diver. A fiora is not going to be as effective as a gangplank or a shen in teamfights because they are not designed to duel a champ and push a lane even though when fed they can, instead they are designed to help out the team when it is grouped

Unless Fiora dominated her lane it should be impossible for her to reach the carry before dying or getting cc-ed in any reasonable team unless she teleport flanked and fiora is by no means a flanker because in the same way she would die for lack of meaningful distance dashes, she lacks as dash that will carry her an actual distance. her q is just for repositioning her passive, small escapes, wall hops, or just generally resetting an auto attack.

Now as a fiora main i do think that one fact that makes her lane strong that is overlooked is the fact that fervor of battle gives 2 stacks on 1 q hit. so i 1 and an auto gets 3 stacks in around 1 second.

No champion is perfectly balanced and fiora is strong however the rework has been out for a while and plenty of people main champions. Personally, i usually win my fiora games however a lot of them happen to be games where i get crushed in lane and spend the next ten minutes farming without getting punshed elsewhere by the enemy team. Most of the time a fiora kills you and its surprisingl its either from the brush like any champion, the first time she's killed you, or if you beat her in lane and neglected the power her first two items she gets bring her after she farmed for a while. And once a fiora starts some momentum its hard to slow it down.

Luckily we all know how easily she can get fed, and you totally ignored my point about her team, why do all mains of a champ act like you're fighting 5 vs 1? Fiora can easily beat any laner if the person is a main, and you should know that, also of course if you have a jungler that is not brain dead he will try to get you first blood because if you get the first kill as fiora it's gg for top lane, the enemy will never come back, only if he gets help from mid and jungler for the next 10 min, but we know what that would cause.

aceknighthighMay 11, 20171 votes

Luckily we all know how easily she can get fed, and you totally ignored my point about her team, why do all mains of a champ act like you're fighting 5 vs 1? Fiora can easily beat any laner if the person is a main, and you should know that, also of course if you have a jungler that is not brain dead he will try to get you first blood because if you get the first kill as fiora it's gg for top lane, the enemy will never come back, only if he gets help from mid and jungler for the next 10 min, but we know what that would cause.

Please stop with the lies man. Yes she is powerful, and yes like many other top laners if she gets ahead she will snowball, but this crap about no one being able to take her 1v1 in lanes is just untrue. She has a very clear, well-defined window of weakness pre-6 and before 3+ items that gives plenty of champions an opportunity to shit on her.

Teemo Pantheon Riven Jax Irelia Quinn MonkeyKing Tryndamere Poppy Nocturne Renekton Ryze MasterYi Lissandra

All of those have a solid shot against her early with a few of them having a decent opportunity to shit on her. Those match-ups are heavily dependent on skill, summs, masteries, and runes, but are certainly winnable. No doubt with the new patch she is overtuned, overbearing, and no fun to lane against, but she isn't some unbeatable champ that has no counters and no counter play. Get ahead on a Fio(who is heavily reliant on her ult for dueling) as she is pretty useless until real late.

Smitty ManjensenMay 11, 20171 votes

{quoted}

5 vs 1? Fiora can easily beat any laner if the person is a main, and you should know that, also of course if you have a jungler that is not brain dead he will try to get you first blood because if you get the first kill as fiora it's gg for top lane, the enemy will never come back, only if he gets help from mid and jungler for the next 10 min, but we know what that would cause.

Please stop with the lies man. Yes she is powerful, and yes like many other top laners if she gets ahead she will snowball, but this crap about no one being able to take her 1v1 in lanes is just untrue. She has a very clear, well-defined window of weakness pre-6 and before 3+ items that gives plenty of champions an opportunity to shit on her.

All of those have a solid shot against her early with a few of them having a decent opportunity to shit on her. Those match-ups are heavily dependent on skill, summs, masteries, and runes, but are certainly winnable. No doubt with the new patch she is overtuned, overbearing, and no fun to lane against, but she isn't some unbeatable champ that has no counters and no counter play. Get ahead on a Fio(who is heavily reliant on her ult for dueling) as she is pretty useless until real late.

Another one who ignores the thing about her team, sigh, also seeing how you mentioned Teemo, you don't really have that much exp, if fiora isn't brain dead, teemo absolutely can't beat her, some others definitely can but no gonna comment on that, your teemo pick is enough to doubt you, and don't reply if you won't consider her team.

Sp33d Zer0May 11, 20172 votes

You can literally say that no champion in the game has a weakness if you pair them up with 4 other champions.

Fiora has to try much harder in a team fight to get the same level of success as other champions who are natural teamfighters do. That is why people say she is a weak teamfighter. It's the same reason most high damage/low bulk melee's are weak in a team fight.

That's like my saying: "Vayne is OP because even if she gets behind, her team can carry her into the late game" ignoring that laning phase is your way to shut her down. "Zed is OP even if you have a GA, because his team can lock you down and he just kills you again" ignoring that GA is a counter item to assassins as it helps deal with the up front burst of their full combo. "Full AP Hecarim is OP, because his team just deals all the damage his W needs to keep him alive" ignoring everything about the champions kits and synergies because hey, their team can carry them.

You see where I am going?

Oh wait, it doesn't matter. This is the gameplay section. Instead of talking to people about ways to deal with a champion until they do get balanced better, you're supposed to kick and scream as soon as someone mentions a way to take results into your own hands.

xJLx MCHammerMay 10, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzOUjkFk,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-05-10T16:27:41.109+0000)

That build is great for dueling people, but it is pretty poor against team fights. Try grouping with your team and if she splits, force the 4v5 fight and take more objectives than she does due to your numbers advantage.

With RH, she can push so fast

Unless you are in high elo, I don't think players can punish the split pushing that quick

And while true, she isn't a great team fighter, these items help her in team fights much more than before. She is able to get a second life, life steal, and more importantly prevent being blown up.

I've seen a doors yesterday hard carry the game. Our top laner couldn't do anything against her and even out Kat would get blow up in 2v1

Cosmic WarperMay 10, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzOUjkFk,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-05-10T16:55:47.513+0000)

With RH, she can push so fast

Unless you are in high elo, I don't think players can punish the split pushing that quick

And while true, she isn't a great team fighter, these items help her in team fights much more than before. She is able to get a second life, life steal, and more importantly prevent being blown up.

I've seen a doors yesterday hard carry the game. Our top laner couldn't do anything against her and even out Kat would get blow up in 2v1

She doesn't push as fast as a renekton with hydra or trynd with shiv though. Her only form of aoe waveclear is hydra

Asayake 5150glowMay 10, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzOUjkFk,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2017-05-10T16:55:47.513+0000)

With RH, she can push so fast

Unless you are in high elo, I don't think players can punish the split pushing that quick

And while true, she isn't a great team fighter, these items help her in team fights much more than before. She is able to get a second life, life steal, and more importantly prevent being blown up.

I've seen a doors yesterday hard carry the game. Our top laner couldn't do anything against her and even out Kat would get blow up in 2v1

I think DD needs to be nerfed, and then a version of it placed directly into Fiora's kit, but only when she's alone. Then nerf her base stats so she's assassin level tanky, even with a Cleaver. Her lifesteal should be plenty if she uses the damage -> bleed to heal.

DeusVultMay 10, 201715 votes

This is the Fiora build atm: item 3074 item 3812 item 3026 item 3071 item 3065 + Boots.

You get 40% CDR, a ton of AD, waveclear, lifesteal and the bonus healing from SV and DD. If you die, you have the new GA. No one can 1v1 you. And in teamfights you are still a monster, and dont die if your ult procs

the weeabooMay 10, 20174 votes

Haha a monster in teamfights. Sure. You mean the environment where there is more than two hard CC spells? Funny.

JorenciceMay 10, 20175 votes

Better hope the enemy doesn't have 2 people in need of that CC

Hello I am BirdMay 11, 20175 votes

tfw you wasted two hard cc spells on fiora that aren't being used on the ADC

LordOfTheLeagueMay 10, 201711 votes

Seriously why the hell she does have so much heal in her kit ? Her passive heals her and her ult heals her so much (both deals true damage too).

It feels so much like Irelia Hiten Style to me. She hits like a truck and heals at the same time.

Once she gets more lifesteal well...

Wtf her ult healing is just :

「 MAXIMUM HEAL: 400 / 550 / 700 (+ 300% bonus AD) 」

I just can't believe that.

ElikainMay 10, 20177 votes

You never actually played Fiora if you believe her passive heals her for anything. It's flat healing that she gains per level. So the only real healing she has is from her ult when it pops and that's based off her BONUS DAMAGE she gets from items and also the duration scales from how many vitals she popped. Considering that she's a champion who goes for all or nothing, her ult heal is a must on her kit.

If you read Fiora's thread when she first came out, Riot did mention that giving her anything else on her ult (straight damage or even long lasting shields) didn't fit her playstyle and made her either super strong or confusing to understand what's supposed to be happening. And her ult healing has been nerfed at the very beginning. it used to be more potent.

GayFluffyUnicornMay 10, 20177 votes

Ah an AOE teamwide monster heal is what fits her playstyle as a splitpusher i see. Her ult heal procc is just one thing too much on an already potent champ.

ElikainMay 10, 20171 votes

An AoE teamwide heal has nothing to do with it most of the time since she wants to splitpush or solo people when she's strong. She can't teamfight for shit as her W isn't long enough to prevent every CC/damage directed at her.

And heal zone is created where her target is so that's more reserved for an engaging champion that flies into her team, it's not an ability her team can capitalize on if she wants to isolate someone in the back in the enemy team. She's gonna get squashed before she manages to kill them unless she's too fed.

I can agree that the choice of her items is rather strong currently. But i can't agree on her kit being "strong". Her kit's power level is just right and her items appear to be a little on the strong side.

AnidanMay 10, 20172 votes

Wasn't her ult put there because they wanted her to be at least somewhat useful in a teamfight so that if she fell behind she was still good for something other than PvE? This was opposed to old Fiora who's entire kit was nothing but damage essentially, which meant if she fell behind she offered little to her team to keep her relevant.

I seem to recall something along those lines, and people wanted Fiora to be more useful if she fell behind.

Hinagiku33May 11, 20171 votes

Correct, Riot stated that they wanted to give Fiora (and all skirmishers really) a team utility of some kind so they had any reason at all to be with their team and were capable of literally any contribution at all if they fell behind.

The reason Fiora got reworked in the first place was because her old kit was literally 100% damage with no CC and no utility of any kind. A Fiora that fell behind in lane might as well just AFK since there was nothing they could offer the team...and a Fiora that got ahead could practically 1v5 since all of her kit's power was in straight damage.

I'd be okay with the heal being replaced by some other kind of utility, but Fiora desperately needs some kind of utility just so she isn't completely useless if she loses lane.

Elkington VIMay 11, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fiora All Night,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yzOUjkFk,comment-id=000800010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-05-11T00:26:58.294+0000)

Correct, Riot stated that they wanted to give Fiora (and all skirmishers really) a team utility of some kind so they had any reason at all to be with their team and were capable of literally any contribution at all if they fell behind.

The reason Fiora got reworked in the first place was because her old kit was literally 100% damage with no CC and no utility of any kind. A Fiora that fell behind in lane might as well just AFK since there was nothing they could offer the team...and a Fiora that got ahead could practically 1v5 since all of her kit's power was in straight damage.

I'd be okay with the heal being replaced by some other kind of utility, but Fiora desperately needs some kind of utility just so she isn't completely useless if she loses lane.

I thought she was reworked because of Blade Waltz lack of counterplay.

Besides, she should have to give up something to deal the kind of damage she does, on top of being one of the best duelists. Give her reliable utility and she'd just straight up outclass a lot of champions that actually have to make trade offs, especially other melees. She's already a stronger pick than most melee champions even now.

aceknighthighMay 11, 20172 votes

She gives up her entire pre-6 early game kill potential by having so much of her kit's power invested in her ultimate.

Her other 3 abilities are primarily used to trade safely and survive until she get's her dueling/utility ultimate.

And I wouldn't call a heal that relies on killing an enemy and hitting vitals, or hitting all 4 vitals reliable. Especially with the number of shields, heals, stasis effects, escapes, and other death defying abilities. You see Fio's ult go down, you keep that person up, peel her off, or kill her, and reengage on their team 4v5, or 5v5 with Fio having wasted her utility and a solid portion of her true damage. Don't let her flank you, and it isn't too hard to back off of a team fight if you don't over-commit.

Morgan le FeyMay 10, 20176 votes

item 3123 item 3070 Fiora [slayer-jinx-catface]

LichKing234May 10, 20172 votes

but then what about tanks when you need lord Dominics more than mortal

LemurMonsterMay 10, 201711 votes

I really dont understand why people are defending such a disgusting champ really.

GayFluffyUnicornMay 10, 20177 votes

Well fiora is fairly popular in soloq. People excuse her for being "mechanical" (which isn't even true, i'd say if there is a scale from easy to very hard she is medium) and the boards not only love hating something like lee the other half loves defending every disgusting shit like ahri and fiora and riven for example. I guess they just want to enjoy their freelo and fear she might get nerfed (rightfully so).

LemurMonsterMay 10, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Well fiora is fairly popular in soloq. People excuse her for being "mechanical" (which isn't even true, i'd say if there is a scale from easy to very hard she is medium) and the boards not only love hating something like lee the other half loves defending every disgusting shit like ahri and fiora and riven for example. I guess they just want to enjoy their freelo and fear she might get nerfed (rightfully so).

I am just pissed because my main has no Solo at all anymore. You would figure he would do great on this tank meta but there is nothing. His laning is so easy countered now. Mega too easy telegraphed.

WarpesMay 10, 20178 votes

no see it's ok tho, because fiora mains will tell you "she's one of the most well balanced and well designed champs yet"

[zombie-brand-mindblown]