Boards›Gameplay

The balance of the game is horrendous right now.

option paralysis··170 votes·7,091 views

I don't think I was ever this upset with riot and their balance. Except for cough dynamic q cough. There were always op champs and there will always be but god damn. Now, if you ban camille/jayce/kha/rengar/lb/kat, there's so many left over champs that you won't have a good time against, just to name a few graves/corki/yasuo(not neccessarily broken but just annoying as shit)/malza/lee/syndra/jhin/caitlyn/quinn/varus/fiora and any fucking champ that abuses lethality. 1 second teamfights are soooo much fun amirite. And the worst part is that riot takes their sweeeeet asss time to balance this. Last patch was in a good direction but not good enough, bans remained the same and lethality just made it worse for everything else. If you checked the pbe, there's no additional nerfs for above champs, just nerfs on masteries. Meaning if the masteries nerf won't be good enough (which it probably won't), we gotta wait ANOTHER 3-4 weeks for another patch to nerf op shit. And then coupled with all that, you get into a game where an adc one trick gets autofilled into jungle or vice versa and the game just becomes a masochistic place.

129 Comments

PiVoRx108 votes

Everytime someone says that its worst balance state ever, Riot comes and proves how wrong you are and fucks it up even harder.

ChaosThief10 votes

In other words, don't jinx it.

xelaker3 votes

{quoted}

In other words, don't jinx it.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

Velgam3 votes

http://i.memeful.com/media/post/BRkm0vw_700wa_0.gif

Next is Tragic2 votes

holy logged in just to upvote

Enloct8 votes

Yep, its never the worst balance state ever. It's just the worst balance state **so far. **

Packun Flower25 votes

lethality needs to be addressed first before any kind of balance should take place. This mechanic has completely sent the state of the games balance into total chaos.

Sp33d Zer06 votes

Much like Armor pen before it.

WoonStruck3 votes

Hmm...I wonder what the issue could be...

I wonder...

######Allowing assassins to not fall off via itemization when they're early game champions that are supposed to fall off.

Support Position2 votes

Honestly. I don't know why they didn't make lethality items Assassin buys only. No other class can buy it. Very stupid on riot's part.

InivtesPreeze19 votes

I can objectively say this is the worst state the game has been in ever.

MorgManBasher4 votes

{quoted}

I can objectively say this is the worst state the game has been in ever.

Apparently you never played when black cleaver stacking was meta. Or when Relic shield was so OP and jungling was so bad that everyone stopped jungling and sent 2 top...4 relic shields on both sides, AD, support, top and 2nd support

I'd say black cleaver meta was the worst though lol. 6 black cleaver talon/patheon/etc.

TheSingularity1 votes

Tbh I can't remember any time since relic was implemented that the Jungle wasn't just fine apart from right now. Currently it sucks. Only a handful of champs can clear decently and if you choose anything other than these select few, you will always lose against a team with one of said champion.

While sated devourer was a pain and last season was a mess constantly with no clear direction and drastic/sudden meta shifts. I could still make what ever the hell I wanted work in the jungle.

So I am extremely confused in regards to this so called "4 relic shields on both sides" you claim to have existed and, based on how you presented it was highly prominent in the meta.

MorgManBasher3 votes

{quoted}

Tbh I can't remember any time since relic was implemented that the Jungle wasn't just fine apart from right now. Currently it sucks. Only a handful of champs can clear decently and if you choose anything other than these select few, you will always lose against a team with one of said champion.

While sated devourer was a pain and last season was a mess constantly with no clear direction and drastic/sudden meta shifts. I could still make what ever the hell I wanted work in the jungle.

So I am extremely confused in regards to this so called "4 relic shields on both sides" you claim to have existed and, based on how you presented it was highly prominent in the meta.

The jungle was so strong at the time that most junglers got murdered by the camps and relic shield was so overpowered on it's release that even the ADC built it. Apparently you didn't play then or apparently you were living under a rock because it was extremely meta to see at the very least double relic shield bot and extremely common to see duo relic shield top even in Diamond and above.

Then again you are OCE, so you do live under a rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pu3TwCHL8_8

TheSingularity2 votes

uh huh. We do live under a rock, the greatest rock of all ULURU BBY! Meanwhile the only rock sitting on you is Trumps copper coated turds <3

[zombie-nunu-hearts]

Shuyin17812 votes

There are patches every 2 weeks, don't let your baby-rage blind you to the point you give false facts.

Handy Sandy 12 votes

{quoted}

There are patches every 2 weeks, don't let your baby-rage blind you to the point you give false facts.

I think it's been more than 2 weeks since the assassin rework -> Leblanc

Veltox2 votes

Leblanc was always like that.

Cosmic Warper8 votes

{quoted}

Leblanc was always like that.

??? leblanc was not ban worthy before her rework.

yung swisher2 votes

[deleted]

PB4UAME4 votes

Making sweeping generalizations about roughly half of the voting block in the US who actually voted, in the form of an ad hominem is a truly terrible way to get any point across, except your own biases and faulty logic.

I agree with the first few lines of what you typed, but then you go and ruin any point you might have had.

TheHappyReaperz12 votes

Riot takes time to balance things for a reason. Remember Ziggs ADC? How it seemed so broken and OP? Riot never changed Ziggs. Once players figured out a way to deal with him, he was no longer OP. There is a reason for the time in-between patches. it is a period to gather data, to consider what can be, and what should be changed.

Borbland11 votes

The patch isnt even bad. Its a step in the right direction. But they do nerf so slowly the meta will only change in summer.

TheSingularity4 votes

I 100% agree They need to stop waiting for the "dust to settle" is some cases. EG lethality isn't something you can play around, outplay or itemise effectively against. It is blatantly broken and causing balance issues that obliterate the quality of the game.

The plants were a case where they should wait for the dust to settle, as was the implementation of elemental dragons or the jungle rework.

Lethality along with past issues such as sated devourer, silence assassins or tank ekko/assassins need to be crushed immediately then worked on in a way that doesn't harm game quality.

If riot wants any of these things in game. That's absolutely fine but start small and work them up till they're just right. Not drop a hydrogen bomb on the map and expect the playbase to successfully savage the crap left over

See You At Baron9 votes

I lost to a team of LeeSin Talon Riven Yasuo and Ekko yesterday. It was Lee and Yasuo bot lane. I got cancer from playing that game and have since lost the will to live.

Notice how mid and top go 1/19 combined and we have a teemo jungle with like, no items.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2429787424/220160717

This game is fucked. I mean in general. There's hardly ANY balance at all anymore, everything is OP and does too much fucking damage, Edge of Night exists, invisibility/stealth is uncounterable, Yasuo is still a worldwide epidemic, some of my games end before the 20 minute mark because the snowballs are so fast it becomes impossible to stage a comeback.

Ferus and Ferrum8 votes

Camille Sits at below a 50% winrate at every elo above gold. Stop banning her. She's not OP anymore

FTWolf6 votes

Agreed I used to ban her every game now I just ban her if im staring at a blank screen wondering what to ban, I go fuck it cuz i got 2 seconds left to ban.

Support Position2 votes

I think you need a breathe of fresh air and actually go against her. Cya back here complaining she needs nerfs.

Ferus and Ferrum3 votes

I'm a Poppy main, so I actually don't mind playing against her. I've also won asIllaoi Fiora Irelia and I've seenNasus Riven Rumble Olaf Malphite Kled Jayce Singed Trundle Tryndamere Urgot Warwick MonkeyKing XinZhao all beat her toplane.

As stated she sits below a 50% winrate at fucking master tier and at gold, so I don't know man. She's melee, her only hard cc is a skillshot that lasts for .75 seconds. Her w is dodgeable, and her ult can be negated by untargetable champs, zhonyas, that one assassin item 8 people end up buying every game.Her biggest damaging ability is gated by a 2 second wind-up window.

If you can't abuse that then I'm not sure what to tell you

Support Position1 votes

I dont understand why communities and Riot look at win rates and say "ooh this is totally accurate and totally whats going on"

Camille is probably one of my top 5 most overpowered champions.

Why?

Her Q is an auto att reset and can get to CRAZY numbers for true damage. True damage is NOT blockable. Health purely does nothing in this game vs it. Purely nothing.

Her W's heal and Slow are MENTAL. These were not even close to looked at by a riot employee. They just said yea its fine who cares right. Wrong.

Her E is literally just... So stupid in terms of its hitbox... Range... Speed... And it can go through walls. Like no. This is just a setup for disaster and is so annoying.

R Oh god... I just wanna uninstall at this point. Not everyone wants to get a friend and play in sandbox mode for 8 hours just learning to zhonya's correctly on this stupid OVERPOWERED ultimate.

Consider the following: E - Stunned - Q one auto - R - 2nd Q - (more Q's) or W, W or Q continuously till E is back up to kill the 2nd person she wishes to engage or gets away easily from the E. I don't understand why her E can even go ever walls in the first place....


Things they should be doing already: 

Zonyas, QSS, etc gets rid of ult completely. Or ANY hard CC ends the ult. (personally I would rather the Zhonyas or QSS as stuns would be always over like poor ![Katarina](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.20.1/img/champion/Katarina.png) )

But I already know they're not doing that. So another option would be make WAY more champs with knock backs that can actually get her out of ult. As the ones that can are 100% trash tier and are useless. 

However the better option is halfing her filthy passive at all levels. And halfing the slow and healing from what it is now. Camille IS overpowered. You just never seem to get a good one ever it seems.
Ferus and Ferrum2 votes

I dont understand why communities and Riot look at win rates and say "ooh this is totally accurate and totally whats going on"

Probably because sharing a winrate with Aatrox means that the champ is more than fair right now. It means that there is a window to shut her down, or that she has glaring weaknesses, or that she's a niche pick.

That winrate is standard across every elo above gold btw, so you cant deny it's impact.

Her Q is an auto att reset and can get to CRAZY numbers for true damage. True damage is NOT blockable. Health purely does nothing in this game vs it. Purely nothing.

You mean to say that "armor" does nothing versus it. Camille q doesn't do percentage health true damage, so itemizing health early is rather effective versus her. Her true damage is also irregular as the damage dealt is pretty dependent on whether or not she has a sheen proc up. It can make a difference of about ~200 damage per true damage q.

Her W's heal and Slow are MENTAL. These were not even close to looked at by a riot employee. They just said yea its fine who cares right. Wrong.

I mean the outer portion of her W ican be dodged via sidestepping or moving closer, the slow decays now, and the heal is capped versus minions. It's also got a pretty hefty cooldown as you max it last.

Her E is literally just... So stupid in terms of its hitbox... Range... Speed... And it can go through walls. Like no. This is just a setup for disaster and is so annoying.

Also can be dodged, meanwhile the entirety of the bonuses aka the attackspeed and stun require you to land it. So missing it opens her up to counterattack. where she's down her only hard cc and as steroid.

R Oh god... I just wanna uninstall at this point. Not everyone wants to get a friend and play in sandbox mode for 8 hours just learning to zhonya's correctly on this stupid OVERPOWERED ultimate.

As stated before there are several ways of negating the ultimate, and she's not immune to damage while shes in there with you. I see so many people run to the corners for some reason rather than fight back. As if waiting by the edge is gonna make the ulti run out faster. also the Zhonya's timing is not hard...

Zonyas, QSS, etc gets rid of ult completely. Or ANY hard CC ends the ult. (personally I would rather the Zhonyas or QSS as stuns would be always over like poor )

Riot has already addressed how these ultimates work as withFiora Fizz Vi Trundle Zed These ults are considered debuffs and as such cant be qssed. Any hard cc would be ridiculous as any bruiser would simply be able to negate the effect, really almost any champion.

But I already know they're not doing that. So another option would be make WAY more champs with knock backs that can actually get her out of ult. As the ones that can are 100% trash tier and are useless.

Janna 53% winrate despite enchanter supports not even being meta. So there goes the 100% statistic. Blitzcrank Another 53% winrate and a popular pick for people who get autofilled, so argument getting weaker. Hecarim 51% winrate and a still an occasional ban so there goes the "trash tier" argument.
Poppy 50 % winrate Infamous tank and soft counter to Camille. Zac XinZhao etc.

However the better option is halfing her filthy passive at all levels. And halfing the slow and healing from what it is now. Camille IS overpowered. You just never seem to get a good one ever it seems.

lol. You would have an argument at the champ being "overloaded" with too many working parts, but if she was overpowered she would have her 56% winrate back. Stats aren't everything, but they dont lie either. The bitch isn't immortal. People act like everytime she ults them it's the end of the world. Part of that is a support meta issue, since most of them are carries they cant do shit about Camille jumping on their carries, but you get Lulu Braum Alistar Blitzcrank Janna Leona Nami Karma TahmKench Taric Thresh Zilean and she does fuck all and get's kited, stunned, and slowed to death by a mountain of cc, shields, and heals.

If you wanna play mf support go ahead, but dont complain when you both get blown up by a high damage diver who is doing what irelia would do, but slower and with counterplay, versus point click stuns, gapcloser, free true damage and heal, and more sheen procs that you can shake a fucking stick at all in under 4 seconds.

ModCaptainMårvelous8 votes

there's so many left over champs that you won't have a good time against

That doesn't mean they're broken. I hate going against a Shaco in the jungle. That doesn't mean he's broken or that he's worth a ban.

rtbf2256182417 votes

/malza/lee/syndra/jhin/caitlyn/quinn/varus/fiora

Malzahar, Syndra, Varus and Fiora are not even comparable to the rest you mentioned. Plus, Jhin has a lot of counterplay involved.

Except maybe Syndra but she requires good hands.

Takito21 votes

Varus is probably the most broken champ live hahaha

I just use him for freelo...

Veltox12 votes

Before lethality no one gave a shit about Varus except his mains.

Anidan3 votes

This comment makes me a laugh a bit because it's 100% true.

DarkinPrime7 votes

Riot is a trash-tier company masquerading at company made of of competent people

2Behold6 votes

yeah gotta hate a company that is constantly churning out new content while trying to keep the old content fresh and keeping a dynamic game balanced on a 2 week patch cycle. -_-

La Bello5 votes

the problem with nerfing high ban rate champs is that due to their high ban rate its VERY hard to gather enough data to make sure your nerfing the right thing. Riots going to have to introduce incremental nerfs until the champions fall out of permaban status and then adjust from their . in other words the more a champion is banned the longer the window of them being "OP" tends to be.

"unfun champions" are unavoidable somewhat because really more of a personal taste subjective thing that varies from person to person.For instance I can see how you would absolutely loathe Yasuo if your a marksman or mid player but as a top lane player I LOVE playing against Yasuo's they're such easy pickings and they often cant help but outplay themselves. I absolutely hate Kayle Jayce Irelia Tryndamere a hell of a lot more than the champions you listed. Its all in the eye of the beholder really.

LankPants13 votes

the problem with nerfing high ban rate champs is that due to their high ban rate its VERY hard to gather enough data to make sure your nerfing the right thing.

If a champ has a 90% ban rate with a 7% play rate they're still in the top 10% of highest picked champs. As the game stands there's no champ with a ban rate so high it reduces game sample size so much it reduces data available. Even if there was that champ would have something like a 97% ban rate, so the correct call would be to nerf them hard and fast and worry about the consequences after.

La Bello3 votes

so the correct call would be to nerf them hard and fast and worry about the consequences after.

I think that call would grant immediate gratification but it might not be the healthiest thing to do Id argue that you need to make sure you are nerfing the **CORRECT **things first and foremost though. Do you have any idea how often people complain about riot "Nerfing champions into uselessness and leaving them there"? Balance is a very fickle thing and not something that can be solved at a quick glance.

Trias0005 votes

They should disable all lethality items until they're fixed, like any gamebreaking bug.

The Birch4 votes

I'm not Riot so I'm probably missing something huge here, but I can't see a reason why they DON'T do this. What gives?

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Because it's a stupid idea. Lethality is fine, if you're competent. I have one loss as Nasus this year. ONE. As a champion that builds quite a lot of armor. The thing that lethality is "SOOOO good" at beating.

Wheatloaf5 votes

This is a little nitpicky, but Riot patches League every 2 weeks, consistently, for most of the year.

50Shades0fTrynda5 votes

I cant say i disagree with the title...but ,seeing so many people getting upset (including me before) makes me come to the idea how our lives would be much nicer and healthier if we would start playing less when we would see the change we dislike ....in other words ,boycott leaves much stronger impression on so much needed improovement than any logical suggestion/proposal.

have a nice day

Karthus

Sadistic Veigar4 votes

I disagree w/ caitlyn being "op", she's fine imo

statelesskiller3 votes

OPPRESSIVE but balanced i think

EDIT: oh boy the downvote brigade not understanding the defintion of "oppressive"

Yasuo THIS MOTHERFUCKER is oppressive. but he IS balanced

Mordekaiser THIS MOTHERFUCKER can never be ALLOWED to be good because he is a broken champion. its just how he is. in his current state if he is allowed to be "good" he will be 100% pick ban simply because of the nature of his kit. "lol i deal damage to gain a shield" if that isnt a broken concept i dont know what is

Varus THIS MOTHERFUCKER is OP. 900 damage from the fog of war 2 shotting most squishes with a projectile that can be fired right after being fired if you just hold it long enough and is also REALLY fast

Caitlyn this chick has clear counter play to her, you know the range of her trap headshots. her q is highly telegraphed, you can clearly see when she has a headshot and her traps you dont HAVE to stand on. her traps are bullshit under tower yes or just in sieging in general BUT that doesn't make her broke. it makes her OPPRESSIVE. it would be broke if she could just put a trap beneath you and you are instantly trapped and headshotted but thats not how it works. everything about her kit has counterplay to it and is telegraphed except her E and thats because its her only defensive/offensive move

learn the difference between broken oppressive balanced and op you subhuman apes

Velgam9 votes

http://i.memeful.com/media/post/mRPBZwL_700wa_0.gif

rtbf22561824115 votes

Yeah, let's put traps under turrets so the enemy has to play slalom or not even see them due to the camera angle and die. Plus the chain cc advantages that she can put multiple traps under you when you get rooted/stunned.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by option paralysis

Scarra's thoughts about the game right now.
Gameplay132 comments
208
votes
The more I know about rune changes, the less I'm excited for s8...
Gameplay239 comments
196
votes
"Lee Sin falls off dumbass."
Gameplay209 comments
187
votes
Even every streamer I watch is hating on league really bad.
Gameplay179 comments
178
votes
Isn't it sad that you're expecting a loss when you win a couple games ?
Gameplay158 comments
154
votes
Oh look, a 60% win rate Ivern is getting nerfed in the new patch!
Gameplay100 comments
153
votes