Isn't it sad that you're expecting a loss when you win a couple games ?

option paralysis·Mar 16, 2017·154 votes·7,533 views

This is just mind boggling to me how blatantly they're trying to make us grind and grind and grind. I don't understand why am I being punished if I played good 2-3 games. Started today at diamond 2, 37 lp, won 3 games in a row, did pretty good, thought to myself 'maybe today's the day when I climb out of d2'.... couple games later the system said 'HAHAHAHAHAHHA LUL FUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUU, HERE'S 2 DUDES WITH 6 GAMES LOSS STREAKS AHAAHAHAHAHHA'. This has become so normal that every time I win 2-3 games in a row, I know I'm gonna lose 2-3 games too and surprise surprise I do. Even when I had a 7 games win streak from d4 to d3, I immediatly lost 6 games in a row. It's so demotivating putting work in this game and then knowing you gotta settle around 50% win rate, if you're not some fucking lcs player. I'm still holding a 56% win rate, dropped from 60% and Idk how much more of this shit I can take. The biggest irony is I would play more games if I knew riot isn't forcing my 50% win rate and not going into games expecting a loss, because I won the game before. This system is a joke. I'm just sad, mad and disappointed.

158 Comments

WyrmbladeMar 17, 201744 votes

My secret is that I genuinely have fun playing the game so it doesn't matter where my elo is or whether I win or lose.

ExsanguinaryMar 17, 201712 votes

The play normals you fucking pleb. Ranked is for people trying to prove their skill.

WyrmbladeMar 17, 201728 votes

I have fun playing the game.

So I have the most fun when I play the game as best as I can. Simple as that.

ExsanguinaryMar 17, 20176 votes

Again, do that in normals, that's what it's there for.

Supreme Senpai69Mar 17, 201736 votes

Yes how dare he enjoy the GAME

PiVoRxMar 17, 20179 votes

If he enjoys the game by screwing it up for others (by playing bad), then he does it in a wrong way.

Sun Wu RyuumokuMar 17, 201721 votes

he never said this....

Anyway its better to focus on the current game instead streak or lp

TuffnarMar 17, 20179 votes

You can play for fun, but people who actually want to play the game to win (crazy right?) have valid complaints about the system. And league markets itself as a competitive game so it's completely fair criticism to say their current system doesn't promote competitive and fair gameplay.

Funkin DunkinMar 17, 20175 votes

Amen!

DynikusMar 16, 201722 votes

HERE'S 2 DUDES WITH 6 GAMES LOSS STREAKS AHAAHAHAHAHHA

If your theory were accurate, wouldn't they have a good chance of winning the next 6 games in a row to get the "forced" 50% winrate?

option paralysisMar 16, 20178 votes

{quoted}

If your theory were accurate, wouldn't they have a good chance of winning the next 6 games in a row to get the "forced" 50% winrate?

Lol, I just check both of those guys, and they have a 50% and 51% win rate. so, pretty much what I'm saying, they had a bigger win rate but dropping to 50% and taking me with them.

DynikusMar 16, 201716 votes

But with your theory, you should go on winstreaks after loss streaks, so someone on a 6 game loss streak should be "forced" to win the next couple games.

In your mind, what's an ideal win percentage for players with fair matchmaking? If matchmaking is working as intended and putting players who are all approximately equally skilled against each other, what should the odds of winning be for either team?

option paralysisMar 16, 20177 votes

{quoted}

But with your theory, you should go on winstreaks after loss streaks, so someone on a 6 game loss streak should be "forced" to win the next couple games.

In your mind, what's an ideal win percentage for players with fair matchmaking? If matchmaking is working as intended and putting players who are all approximately equally skilled against each other, what should the odds of winning be for either team?

I like how you're saying "my theory". Lol, find posts from riot and numerous other players, that's how it is. It's not some "theory". Maybe they'll go on a win streak after this 6 losses. Idk why you're saying like they're never ever gonna win a game anymore. Maybe before those 6 losses, they had 6 wins or they're just plainly bad and/boosted. I don't work in a fucking multi bilion dollar company so I don't have answers, but for starters... they might not put 2 autofilled players on 1 team and 0 autofills on the other team. Promos don't need to be extra hard and the lp gain/loss is too harsh on players, etc..

DynikusMar 16, 201715 votes

I like how you're saying "my theory"

Because it is a theory. If you have good matchmaking, odds of winning or losing should be 50%. Here's a set of data from 40 randomly generated numbers from 1-2 (50% chance for either) 1112122121112111112121212222221211221111

Notice how you have streaks of 1s and streaks of 2s? Convert 1s to wins, and 2s to losses, and you have something that looks like a majority of league players match history.

Games obviously aren't perfectly 50/50 though, as there are a substantial number of factors that go into each game. And as you win more games in a row, if your mmr gets to a level above your current skill level, your chances of losing will be higher until you get to where you belong. Riot matchmaking isn't forcing you to a 50% winrate, it's trying to place you in games to achieve a 50% winrate, as that's fair for everyone.

they might not put 2 autofilled players on 1 team and 0 autofills on the other team.

That all depends on how many people are in queue, how long your queues are, what roles people are queueing for, etc. You can't have everyone always get their preferred role without making queues substantially longer.

Promos don't need to be extra hard

If you're playing matches that are supposed to show that your skill sits higher than your current rank, you should have to play against people of the higher rank to prove that's where you belong. If you're trying to get to gold from silver, you should be playing against gold players to show that you can compete with them rather than playing against silver players and stomping them.

and the lp gain/loss is too harsh on players, etc..

If you're well below where you should be, lp gains are great. If you're well above where you should be, lp loss is substantial, because it's all just matchmaking and rank trying to place you where you actually should be.

option paralysisMar 17, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Riot matchmaking isn't forcing you to a 50% winrate, it's trying to place you in games to achieve a 50% winrate, as that's fair for everyone.

Obviously you live in a world where losing because of someone else isn't rage worthy.

That all depends on how many people are in queue, how long your queues are, what roles people are queueing for, etc. You can't have everyone always get their preferred role without making queues substantially longer.

So you're saying it's ok to sacrifice quality of games for lower q times.

If you're playing matches that are supposed to show that your skill sits higher than your current rank, you should have to play against people of the higher rank to prove that's where you belong. If you're trying to get to gold from silver, you should be playing against gold players to show that you can compete with them rather than playing against silver players and stomping them.

Umm noo, I played against a challenger in my d4 promos. That's not ok, if they wanna put challenger against me, then if I win better give me 30+ LP, but I won and that didn't of course happen. Also, with your logic, you could be a gold level player but stuck in silver because youre playing against gold players while being in silver. Doesn't make sense.

If you're well below where you should be, lp gains are great. If you're well above where you should be, lp loss is substantial, because it's all just matchmaking and rank trying to place you where you actually should be.

Again, you're living in a world where everything is right and nothing bad ever happens, maybe because you're unranked talking about the ranked system. The higher you go, the less LP you get, because the system doesn't want you to climb so hard, thus keeping you playing the game longer. I had a 60% win rate and got +19 and -17 in diamond 2. I'd say that's a very fucking lousy lp gain/loss with a fucking 60% win rate.

I rest my case.

DynikusMar 17, 201711 votes

Obviously you live in a world where losing because of someone else isn't rage worthy.

I've been the person that's cost my team the game, I've played with people that cost me a game where I was playing great. It's annoying, but it's part of playing a team game.

So you're saying it's ok to sacrifice quality of games for lower q times.

I would personally prefer match quality over queue times, but riot bases their decisions on pleasing the majority. The majority of players don't want to wait 30+ minutes to get into a game that could end in 20.

Umm noo, I played against a challenger in my d4 promos. That's not ok, if they wanna put challenger against me, then if I win better give me 30+ LP, but I won and that didn't of course didn't happen.

Since you said earlier you currently have a 56% winrate, it's possiblee you had high enough mmr to play against high diamond/masters and even some challenger players. It would be less fair to other low diamond players to get placed against someone who could be challenger level, but is currently in a lower rank because they haven't climbed that high yet. You're matched based on mmr, not rank. How much lp did you win for that game?

you could be a gold level player but stuck in silver because youre playing against gold players while being in silver. Doesn't make sense. If you're a gold level player, you will climb to gold eventually given enough games. Again, you're living in a world where everything is right and nothing bad ever happens, maybe because you're unranked talking about the ranked system.

I have a decent understanding of how the ranked system worked, I just don't care enough to play it much.

The higher you go, the less LP you get, because the system doesn't want you to climb so hard, thus keeping you playing the game longer.

That's... just wrong. your LP gained/lost is based on your rank vs your mmr. If you're silver playing in gold games, you'll win 30+ lp per game, and likely skip divisions and promos. If you're gold playing in silver games, you'll lost a lot more lp than you win until you drop down to the rank where your mmr belong.

I had a 60% win rate and got +19 and -17 in diamond 2. I'd say that's a very fucking lousy lp gain/loss with a fucking 60% win rate.

When you win those games and who you're placed against are important factors in mmr and thus lp gain/loss. For example if you're a challenger smurf doing unranked-challenger, and you have a 70% winrate until you hit diamond, then you drop down to a 60% winrate, you're going to lose more mmr than you gain in wins, and your lp gain is going to approximately even out.

Harvey RabbitMar 17, 20172 votes

Why don't you be honest and admit you made that string of numbers up. It doesn't look at all like a typical string of random numbers, such as: https://www.random.org/integers/?num=100&min=1&max=2&col=1&base=10&format=html&rnd=new

Just like your example, I could say that a real string of random 1s and 2s with 50% chance of each looks like this: 222222222211111111112222222222221111111111111 Sure, that can happen, but it would be unusual.

DynikusMar 17, 20174 votes

I didn't make it up, I went to random.org and generated a number from 1-2 40 times.

skyskee008Mar 17, 20173 votes

{quoted}

If your theory were accurate, wouldn't they have a good chance of winning the next 6 games in a row to get the "forced" 50% winrate?

Shh, don't try and use logic here

Sagan ForeverMar 17, 20172 votes

Not a theory, it is a hypothesis. Theories require evidence and an explanation of how an event occurs.

ExsanguinaryMar 17, 201711 votes

The Ranked system is rigged to keep you doing this so you continually pump in $ trying to find an advantage, whether it be Runes, Rune pages, Champions, Boosts, etc.

A Ranked system based on pure Win/Loss is the ONLY way to properly show your talent in this game. The more games you win, the better of a teammate you are and thus will be closer to the top.

This current MMR system is for profits. Ever wonder why Challenger players are "gifted" Plat 1 at the start of the next season? They bring in $ and if placed in a pool of ALL players and FORCED TO FIGHT their way to the top like the rest of us, they wouldn't be there anymore, would lose their stream viewers and branding and would not be the $ machines they are for Riot that they are today.

Every Challenger player that plays in Bronze/Silver elo says the same thing "It's impossible to get these monkeys to end the game!"

DevlinCrowMar 17, 20179 votes

It is designed to give you a 50% win-rate, giving you a false sense of "climbing" and matching you with players much better if you do well.

Simply don't play ranked :D

MoetaroMar 17, 20176 votes

This.

The system is rigged as F. They will try as much as they can to keep you grinding.

I just dont play rankeds, they can just fuck off. I play only normals, that are even more rigged than rankeds, but at least they dont scam my LP.

If they ever decide to implement a fair system for ranked play, I'll have a try, why not? but I will NOT play those shitty unfair games just to get a filthy badge, thank you.

LadracMar 17, 20176 votes

I had like 57% winrate in over 200 ranked games, then I started to make huge losing streaks...and now I barely have 51% winrate. I couldnt even win with my most played champions...sometimes it was my fault, but other times just one sided games in the favor of the enemy team. Getting guys with 20-30% winrate in over 30 games, or mid laners without keystone...or I had to play vs ex master player. This is the system...it punishes you if you do good.

idontgiveabotherMar 17, 20175 votes

I went from gold5-gold 2 in week. 1 week. Then another week for gold 1. Then another week I went back to gold 4 14lp. Oh you're playing consistently and doing well? Lets give him some people who seem like they are straight up inting every other game!

1995 2017RiP EvaMar 17, 20175 votes

EASY riot system work in way with your match history

If you win 3 games riot dosent care if this games are rank or normal or ARAM they only care about the 50% win ratio on YOUR MATCH HISTORY

So what to do? after a big win streak play normals you will notice that you will lose normal games many of them and then back to winning then you can play ranked again

THAT WAY i have manage to keep an 79% win ratio through some times its hard to see what games are win

For more understanding of what i say check my match history you will see that i have 3 ranked games then i play normal games i lost them and then i play again ranked games and i win them and let me tell youi something you can see taht this is true by one thing

the game have a a weird algorith of loses/win number so if you have a DAY with lets say 3 losts and 7 win on your 10 MATCHES the next day you will have the opposite which mean YOU NEED TO PLAY NORMAL GAMES and you will notice that you will get the same THING this may take 1-2 days to occur not it may sound weird but trust me follow that and then play a ranked game that you know its a win do nothing feed do everything possible to lose YOU CANT LOSE i have try it

i have reach accounts up to diamond and so on by doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

Like is say check my account tho is not 100% possible to know what games are win becaus ethe algorithm shit to 2-8 and 6-4 which is hard or there is a week every 20 of the othe rmonthe (every 2 months) that you get from the 30 games you get first A-9-1 THEN 7-3 THEN BACK TO 8-2 this would lead your account after a drop to 5-5 6-4 and so on to have HUGE lose streak PLAY THAT LOSE STREAK IN NORMAL OR ARAM GAMES you will notice that you will have 20-30 games LOST but they are not ranked game and you beat the system

Dont believe me? that your problem i just solve you the problem its not eays but in less of 2 month monitor your games you will see a patern if you examine it you will understand it

My job here is done

notice me Sin piMar 17, 20174 votes

i wonder, if the word "diamond" in the post was replaced with "bronze" or "silver", would people downvote u to oblivion? Cuz it's not just diamond, it happens in silver as well. And when it happens to me i get very tilted and end up losing 2~3 times more than i really should on average every losing streak

KarakotMar 17, 20174 votes

It's sad that I just expect losses in champ select.

Tundra HunterMar 17, 20173 votes

I posted a few posts with the same story: I very often have big win streak (12 win streak not so long ago) and loss streak (6 or 7 loss streak).

I am having a hard time believing this is random, it seems to me that the system try its best to force you to be close to 50% winrate. This is particularly true at the beginning of the season, when a few games makes a big difference in your winrate %.

I wish the matchmaking system was open, so we could at least be fixed if this is due to the system or actually random.

I saw once a comment from a Rioter, saying that after a winnning streak, your MMR is too high for your level and you lose games because you're not at your MMR. But what happens is AFK and team feeding, I don't feel like this is due to MMR.

YoungSirJ0eyMar 17, 20172 votes

That's called confirmation bias.

ModAcademy KaynMar 17, 20173 votes

I mean, realistically, as Humans, we're apt to find patterns in randomness, and becomes suspicious when things that are random happen too often together. Apples original Random function for their iPod stuff was actually truly random, yet people claimed it wasn't working when it was giving them the same song 5 times over. So Apple made it so the Random function excluded the last played song.

Point being, in a truly random scenario, if we get the same song 5 times over, we're apt to suspect that the next song is going to be different. So, by the same logic, we're apt to believe that winning too many games in a row, that we'll eventually get a Loss. We expect the pattern to break, because we expect something happening over and over to be different after so many times.

Pr0MeisterMar 17, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F9EIwh01,comment-id=000f,timestamp=2017-03-17T03:50:54.566+0000)

I mean, realistically, as Humans, we're apt to find patterns in randomness, and becomes suspicious when things that are random happen too often together. Apples original Random function for their iPod stuff was actually truly random, yet people claimed it wasn't working when it was giving them the same song 5 times over. So Apple made it so the Random function excluded the last played song.

Point being, in a truly random scenario, if we get the same song 5 times over, we're apt to suspect that the next song is going to be different. So, by the same logic, we're apt to believe that winning too many games in a row, that we'll eventually get a Loss. We expect the pattern to break, because we expect something happening over and over to be different after so many times.

I think what the OP is trying to point out is that it isn't just breaking a win/loss streak with the opposite. That is natural and to be expected 100%. The suspicious part is where 6 wins are followed by 5-6-7 losses and then they are followed by 6-7-8 wins and so on and so forth. This is an unending seesaw for the past 6 season, affecting every League player bar Challenger who have enough skill to brute force the system despite it actively trying to drag them down as well.

Not to mention its unfair to anyone who actively plays ranked (I don't personally, despite being here since season 2) that at the end of the day they are judged by their rank, not by their MMR, but the game insists on testing them based on MMR only. If a guy in Plat has Dia MMR and is matched more or less with Diamonds, then give him bloody Diamond, don't artificially pad the game by forcing him to struggle through promos again and again and again. Because, well he will EVENTUALLY break through, but that would be many games and hours wasted later while he could have been using the time to climb Dia.

Not to mention Number Two: When will Riot earn that 150+300+200+350+150 does NOT equal 230+230+230+230+230 in terms of teambased gaming.

BisaknospMar 17, 20173 votes

xD last season i only wanted to hit plat and then stop ranked after my placements (6 wins 4 losses, 3 of them due to trolls believe me or not) i was in gold 3 i won most of my games and hit plat fast i think but what bothered me was that every couple of games i either got someone who ragequits or ints xddd so pathetic i can remember that i tried to hit diamond in s4 and i reached plat 2 and in every1 of my promos i got trolled xDdD i couldnt believe it i think i was in promos 4 times and every single time i had trolls in my games ahhaha this shit tilted me so hard i stopped ranked and didnt play any in s5 the amount of stupidity and rage was just too much for me you guys cant believe how many times i've read the sentence 'ok you lose now' god i hate ranked

from 2 zeal items talon to heimerdinger with grasp that runs it down mid and then rq's i've seen it all

EpicPizzaMasterMar 17, 20173 votes

I know the feeling. I'm learning Fiora and went on a winnning streak, now im just getting games with 0/6/2 junglers and 2/12/2 mid-laners.

SkZ DoPeMar 17, 20173 votes

i know that feel, won 5 games with high KDA and then the teammates start to have horrible winrates and losestreaks like you are supposed to carry them instead of getting better mates

terribleplAyrMar 17, 20173 votes

Yep, they hate seeing people climb who deserve to. My main account, I have recently had a 90% loss rate with teammates feeding in 4v3's while I get 2 man camped. I've been best or top 2 player on my team in pretty much every game and can't buy a win. If winning 1v1, team ensures enemy has multiple more fed enemies while I'm the only one with positive kda on my team - can't tank 4 fed enemies when my team has no damage. When I can 1v2 win? Great job, we are going to ensure you have to be able to kill 3 people and tank 4 fed enemies in teamfights. Can 1v3 win? ... Just goes on and on.

SteelMankindMar 17, 20173 votes

Unless something is changing your odds of winning (like you're tilted or tired) the chance that you'll win your 4th game given that you won the first 3 is no different from the chance you won the 1st game.

Its like rolling 6's twice in a row - rhe chance of rolling a 6 again is 1/6, same as always. The die doesnt remember your previous successes and think, "ok, now im not gonna land on 6 because this guy is too lucky"

This misconception is the main way casinos make money, btw.

DonGiovanniMar 17, 20175 votes

You have no idea about probability and statistics, do you?

What is the probability of rolling the same number 6 times in a row with a dice? 1/46656 or 1/6? The probability of rolling any number per attempt is always 1/6, but probability of rolling the same number in a row exponentially decreases. If winning/losing is determined similar to tossing a coin, then the probability of winning (or losing) 5 times in a row is 1/32 with an assumed win probability of 50%. Get your stats straight son.

SteelMankindMar 17, 20171 votes

No, you have no idea.

If I roll a 6 twice in a row, the chance of rolling a 6 three times in a row is just 1/6 because the first two rolls already happened. At that point, you're only one roll away from rolling three sixes in a row.

The probability of rolling three sixes in a row if you havent rolled any yet is (1/6)^3, which is what you're thinking of. Not P{3 sixes|2 already rolled}.

DonGiovanniMar 17, 20174 votes

God, you are stupid. You are just like my students, who think they know better than their professor. Keep on living in your alternative facts...

SteelMankindMar 17, 20171 votes

P{next roll is a 6 | first two were 6} = P{next roll is a 6 AND first two were 6} / P{first two were 6}

Dice rolls are independent events, so the intersection of the probabilities of dice rolls is just the product of their individual probabilities, = [(1/6)(1/6)^2] / (1/6)^2 =1/6

EDIT: I can tell you aren't a professor because there isn't a single professor in the world who would be so quick to scorn as you (and you're wrong to boot). Nice troll mate, you got me.

DonGiovanniMar 18, 20174 votes

I am glad I am not your professor for sure. Again, happy alternative facts.

Arcus DiabolusMar 17, 20173 votes

Kinda why I prefer 1v1 competive games these days.

Can't give me bad teammates that way, and if you stick a harder opponent in my face, I'll only improve.

(And if someone is boosted to my level, then he is going to get the shit kicked out of him, so theres that.)

Lord GalvatronMar 17, 20173 votes

That's why after 4 consective wins I choose something really meme-y to play so I don't have to take the game seriously with my main when I get the inevitable -100 MMR bonobo's and the Chinese raging AFK'ers.

strutMar 18, 20173 votes

Yeah i never understood this. Makes no fucking sense whatsoever.

SilentBomberMar 18, 20173 votes

Well,you can always expect a loss once you check lolnexus at the start of the game and notice that you got a player with 0 past experience in ranked playing for first time versus 3 last season golds.

MMR stuff....

TheHappyReaperzMar 16, 20172 votes

I expect to lose a game after a couple wins, cause I'm shit at the game. Odds are, my win streak will end, and it could be the next game I play.

ZT XperimentorMar 17, 20172 votes

Get that feeling in normals & aram even; man i had an amazing game . . . bet that means the next one is going to go terribly.

LeonerdoMar 17, 20172 votes

I mean yeah, every time you win, your MMR goes up slightly, and you get slightly tougher opponents (and better teammates). If you're not getting better at the same rate, then eventually you gotta lose.

Even so, you can still climb somewhat with as low as 50% winrate if your MMR is higher than your current division, because of extra LP gains.

If what you're really upset at is that you have to lose at all, then I'm sorry but that's not how fair (matchmade) PvP games work. For every winner there is a loser. Unless you're a challenger god, sometimes you gotta be the loser.

It's hard to accept; everyone wants to win. Every game. But we all gotta find way to cope with the losses and hopefully learn something from them. (Ideally, we could even have fun when losing, but I'mma be honest, I don't think that's a realistic goal for most of us.)

Harvey RabbitMar 17, 20173 votes

I mean, if your opponents are getting better because your mmr is going up, your teammates should be getting better too. The weird thing is that often when you have a streak of good performances you suddenly find yourself matched with HEAVIER AND HEAVIER teammates instead of better and better ones.