The more I know about rune changes, the less I'm excited for s8...

option paralysis·Aug 24, 2017·196 votes·17,068 views

I know they're not even here and we might even enjoy it, but c'mon, it's riot... completely changing the rune system will break the game for fucking months. Even when they changed masteries, nothing was balanced for months. And now the whole runes. And what kind of runes at that, fucking changing summs during game, first AA giving basically the same shit as iceborn gauntlet, etc... I really hate all those changes and I'm not looking forward to the preseason at all.

239 Comments

AvaristAug 24, 201792 votes

Same here, at first I was optimistic and thought it had great potential, but as time goes on I am seeing more and more potentially obnoxious gimmicks that are gonna' be introduced with s8.

But more than that, my issue is how drastically this is going to change the game, and so suddenly.

Mechanical changes to the game should really be introduced slowly so we have time to adjust, and if something goes horribly wrong there is less issue in reverting it or reworking it into something good... This new runes system is going to be so sweeping across all lanes, all playstyles, all strategies that we use in every period of the game... This is really risky by Riot, in my opinion.

I know that sounds dramatic but honestly the latest reveal of Summoner Specialist is just that, a sweeping mechanical change. And the previously highlighted keystones while less drastic are still capable of changing play patterns pretty heavily.

GelsominoKillerAug 24, 201714 votes

I am not afraid of change, and I think that pregame needed an overhaul in this exact direction (free, unlocked for everybody, meaningful choices etc).

However, those runes they showed are gimmick, lame, uninspired, weird... I don't think I'll enjoy the game more than I do now.

I must admit that keystones found some balance recently, but ONLY recently.

AvaristAug 24, 20177 votes

{quoted}

I am not afraid of change, and I think that pregame needed an overhaul in this exact direction (free, unlocked for everybody, meaningful choices etc).

However, those runes they showed are gimmick, lame, uninspired, weird... I don't think I'll enjoy the game more than I do now.

I must admit that keystones found some balance recently, but ONLY recently.

I agree that pregame needed a solid overhaul and should be accessible to everybody, which is why I was so excited and hopeful. No longer having to spend IP on specific rune setups to counter lanes? Score!

But the more and more I see the more concerned I am about the health of the game in s8.

I fear that the keystones are going to be highly abusable by some characters and cause a ton of really specific balancing issues where a keystone makes a champion too strong, but if they nerf the keystone it will become unviable on other characters, thus burying the champion in question in nerfs that force them into using the keystone they are balanced around, which in turn will remove the aspect of choice that players previously had with the keystone choice in the first place lol - Freezeray in particular seems like it may end up suffering from this problem.

3TWarriorAug 24, 20176 votes

don't forget 20 second flash...I think it's going to be a big one

RiotSparkleAug 24, 201756 votes

Hey Avarist -

Wanted to speak to your points here because I think this is a totally valid reaction that a lot of players are sharing right now.

We know that this level of change is going to be slightly overwhelming for a lot of players, which is why we're making these changes for Preseason specifically to have time to balance and change things (and for you guys to try things outside of the ranked season). We're also limiting other in game changes coming out at the same time beyond the super necessary stuff for the reasons you describe. We'll do our best to keep you guys as updated as possible on what we're going to do around runes balance, etc. We've had multiple teams focused on playtesting and balancing already, but we know that we can't 100% cover everything internally that the...well...lots of you will experience and discover (big shout out to Playtest team and Live Gameplay for all of their help so far).

This was one instance where we simply couldn't keep making incremental changes to the runes & masteries systems though. It could only take us so far. We've mentioned before that keystone masteries were an early test for some of the things we want to achieve with these new runes. One of the things this test showed us is that if we ever wanted to follow through on having meaningful pregame decisions (which you guys have been rightly asking for) then it would require some big changes to the rules, not just new content.

We do know that impactful runes like Summoner Specialist are scary (and hopefully exciting for some players?), but we're hyper aware that these are big changes and are committed to monitoring and reacting over Preseason. Some of the runes we've already talked about have already been changed or edited since because everything we're showing is super duper work in progress. I know that actions speak louder than words, so I don't expect you to take my word for it here, but I did want to put all of this out there for you guys.

Jeddy017Aug 25, 201727 votes

I think with such big changes, you guys SHOULDN'T start the season early like you did last year.

Starting the season in December will only give you guys less time to moniter & balance stuff. And any leftover balance problems wouldn't be address until the new year after Riot had it's winter break. This will greatly affect players Ranked experiences for that month.

I don't mind all the pregame changes (to a certain degree). I prefer to wait & see the full thing in action before I make a solid opinion on it. But I just hope you guys take time with these massive changes.

RiotSparkleAug 25, 201724 votes

I will voice your concerns to the folks who set the dates.

Kai GuyAug 25, 201711 votes

Said it before and ill probably say it again. Personally I like that you guys take risks with your balancing and season changes. Lowers stagnation of this moba more then others that rely just on balance changes, reworks, and new heros. The pregame decisions sold me on league back in season 1. Dota 2 disappointed me when it was just copy and pasted all-stars (its gotten better but just the unwillingness to do away with janky mechanics that only existed due to limitations in Wc3 map editor prevent it from being my go to moba.)

Will you guys screw up? No doubt, but long as yall own mistakes, learn, and keep going ham I feel its worthwhile. Glhf see ya on the rift mate.

OyddAWqJ5rAug 24, 201752 votes

That's what pre-season is for. Completely breaking the game to incorporate new changes and balance it from there.

Just enjoy the mayhem for a bit, rank isn't gonna matter anyway.

WolfeurAug 24, 20176 votes

I definitely, completely agree

GayFluffyUnicornAug 24, 201710 votes

I think pre season wouldn't feel that bad if riot actually balanced the rest of the season. Instead since 2 seasons they just let everything overpowered slip because it is "exciting" or they simply don't care. Hello twitch and draven permaban for half a year. Not a single word about plants. They are just in the game now even though riot said let's see how it works out and potentially remove it but i never heard anything about it anymore if people are complaining or okay with it nothing. Look how long it took for the s6 mastery changes to settle down.... warlords is still causing headaches.

RalanrAug 24, 20175 votes

Balance is not as simple as we think it is.

And you also have to understand what we want isn't always what Riot is planning for.

3TWarriorAug 24, 201710 votes

actually, with as major of a corporation as Riot is, it would probably be no issue AT ALL to issue daily or even weekly updates to test changes

it would probably keep the game way more fresh and healthy than monthly or every other monthly, but Chaos is Riot's business model now

BlakiepugAug 24, 201715 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AxtIMqvv,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-08-24T12:19:11.568+0000)

That's what pre-season is for. Completely breaking the game to incorporate new changes and balance it from there.

Just enjoy the mayhem for a bit, rank isn't gonna matter anyway.

The problem is that the pre-season changes don't just go away after a short while. We still have the Rengar rework that was introduced, the Leblanc rework, the blast cones. These are permanent changes to the game regardless of when they are introduced.

the weeabooAug 24, 201717 votes

You guys forget that this shit isn't gonna be on every champion. Take this and you'll have to sacrifice the keystone slot. You won't be able to get any other crazy shit so you potentially gave up a huge bonus just to switch your role from lane stomper to splitpusher or something.

Also remember plants? Remember how every bitched about plants and thought they were gamebreaking and wanted them removed? They're fine now. Just give it time.

ninjaroxasAug 24, 201710 votes

It's more like riot didnt do anything with the plants so everyone gave up

the weeabooAug 24, 20179 votes

I didn't see any post-plant complaints about plants. Riot didn't need to do anything with them cuz they were fine.

SweedishGunnerAug 24, 201711 votes

Because people already complained and Riot changed nothing.

ModAcademy KaynAug 24, 20174 votes

And if it was really a problem, people would still be complaining. This is The League of Legend Boards, give it some credit.

KoboldAug 25, 20176 votes

People asked for fixes to morde bugs for 3 years before they even took a look with his rework and that was only due to him being on a list for reworks. There have been many occasions (especially with the boards and Riot) where a problem or feature was discussed and no action was taken until years later after the complaints stopped years before and the changes then caused issues for the players as it broke something else instead of fixing the problem first.

boba drinker Aug 24, 201714 votes

{quoted}

You guys forget that this shit isn't gonna be on every champion. Take this and you'll have to sacrifice the keystone slot. You won't be able to get any other crazy shit so you potentially gave up a huge bonus just to switch your role from lane stomper to splitpusher or something.

Also remember plants? Remember how every bitched about plants and thought they were gamebreaking and wanted them removed? They're fine now. Just give it time.

I don't see why plants were implemented into the game...I feel like Riot just ran out of ideas and just said, "Hey fuck it. Let's add some plants to make this game more fun"

BlakiepugAug 24, 201720 votes

{quoted}

You guys forget that this shit isn't gonna be on every champion. Take this and you'll have to sacrifice the keystone slot. You won't be able to get any other crazy shit so you potentially gave up a huge bonus just to switch your role from lane stomper to splitpusher or something.

Also remember plants? Remember how every bitched about plants and thought they were gamebreaking and wanted them removed? They're fine now. Just give it time.

I still don't like blast cones and think they add unnecessary mobility to the game. :/

KloqdqAug 24, 201715 votes

I feel the same. Never liked blast cone and I still don't.

BlakiepugAug 24, 201711 votes

{quoted}

I feel the same. Never liked blast cone and I still don't.

Yeah, I never even feel good when I "outplay" an enemy with the blast cone. I'm always just like "ok... well that happened."

KloqdqAug 24, 20178 votes

Yeah pretty much. Vision and Health are great in my mind but Blast Cone never felt well thought out. Hell it was terrible on launch.

GelsominoKillerAug 24, 20179 votes

But I do still think plants are lame and absolutely not worth the removal of the smite bonuses.

WrÆthAug 24, 201715 votes

We heard that assassins were in a bit of a tough spot at the moment. So hey, lets give everyone a free zhonya's active at 6 minutes. You like the annoying as fuck Frozen Mallet yasuos gnars and teemos? Well FAN FUCKING TASTIC because we have something for you too! Introducing Hextech Freezray. If you thought that being run down by a machine gun teemo with a perma slow on every auto was obnoxious, well now he gets the same thing, JUST AT THE START OF THE GAME!

Coming soon to a rift near you.

bànAug 25, 20175 votes

lmao

RavoreAug 24, 201712 votes

Honestly League of legends seems like it's going to just become more and more cluttered. Plants already felt very RNG and gimmicky and they kinda still do. I like league but i feel like it's losing it's essence

SteelflameAug 24, 201710 votes

A part of the point is to make massive, quite possibly dangerous, changes to the game.

The rune system has needed a total revamp for a LONG time, and with them making runes "free" they decided to just roll them into Masteries and be done with having both sides of the coin to balance. Now they have just a single more comprehensive system to balance and change (A part of the old rune issue was that changing them was a big no-no because of how much of an investment they were to obtain for players, now Riot can freely add, change, or remove as they see fit based on balance), and this massively drops the new player grind (No more 200k+ IP spent on Runes. That is worth 31 6300 IP champs), which has gotten massively bloated compared to days of old just thanks to the fact that the champion pool has doubled (With mostly 6300 champions to boot) making it hard to get access to a lot of the content.

This is a dangerous change for Riot in multiple ways, that exclusively serves to the player benefit long term. I wouldn't be surprised if this is why Riot has been releasing more expensive skins lately, knowing that champ money income is going to drop even further for them to near nothing.

the weeabooAug 24, 20172 votes

Riot is a billion dollar company... nobody but noobs actually buy champs. The near entirety of their revenue comes from Skins and LC$

Glory ln DeathAug 24, 20175 votes

Smurf accounts.

the weeabooAug 24, 20171 votes

Yeah but smurf accounts also don't buy skins since it a smurf account. So it balances out.

Glory ln DeathAug 24, 20175 votes

You'd be surprised, really. They won't buy as many as on their main account, but they'll still get their favorite skins for their favorite champions.

KoKobotoAug 24, 20178 votes

I'm fine with it.

I hope that they're also focusing on all the problems that have been plaguing the game.

Towers to weak
Support too busted
Extremely underpowered champions, over powered champions
Objectives. 1 minute death timers at 20 minutes
Baron and Dragon super easy to take
Every single game is a stomp
Quinn rework sucks ass

Edit: New content is nice but I really wish they just stopped and fixed the fundamental stuff first.

deadlychuckAug 24, 201715 votes

Sadly they've seemed to have given up on the fundamentals of their game and are more focused on how they can work around them, rather than how they can/should utilize and improve them.

Dextix LTAug 24, 20178 votes

Hey, at least they are not reworking jungle again!

WoonStruckAug 25, 20174 votes

The jungle NEEDS to be reworked again.

Currently its just Wraiths->red->blue->camp lanes for EXP, farm other camps if lanes are too risky, repeat.

That's the jungle meta. It feels like shit because it is shit.

Then you have the problem at higher MMRs where junglers are just second supports, support items included.

RaiyzaAug 24, 20178 votes

Rune changes will be tough to get used to, but it is completely necessary.

NoblewindAug 24, 20177 votes

I don't care about the shit show that's coming.

I care about 1 simple thing, if there has to be a pre-game loadout system, then I want it to offer ACTUAL decision making. Basically this scenario has to be a far more common thing than it is now: 2 players who main the same champion will have different masteries/runes based on their playstyle, not 100% obvious synergies

ninjaroxasAug 24, 201718 votes

It just not possible, after awhile everyone will work out that one thing is amazing on a champ and 70% of the people playing that champ will use it

NoblewindAug 24, 20175 votes

I have to agree. Although I think it could be made a little more possible. They need more gameplay style runes as opposed to stats, things that are more universal. Like "do X creates a shield for your ally" is potentially more viable in more scenarios than "increases all shielding X %"

SpecterVonBarenAug 24, 20173 votes

They need to be more utility based or require prep time of some sort. Things that enable you to do new mechanical things not more defense or more offense.

NoblewindAug 24, 20172 votes

They also need to be a little mixed within each tree. Like if you really want 1 keystone but had to pick things along the way which may or not be such obvious choices. Not I'm a carry I'll pick easy choices down the damage tree

SpecterVonBarenAug 24, 20174 votes

I think part of the problem is that there are trees at all. Having tiers is fine but I think they should just do away with having trees so that you can customize far more. When you HAVE to pick nothing but tank, damage, or utility runes then that's just telling people to find the best setup for being tanky or dealing damage or having utility. A grab bag of runes in tiers of power opens up a lot more for finding your own personal style.

KloqdqAug 24, 20177 votes

You do know during preseason they will react faster with hotfixes right? They won't just sit on busted stuff and will work 10x harder to get stuff ready this time around, espically since they have to balance out 140 champions with the removal of masteries and runes and new runes. Sure it'll be a shit show, but a lot of good will come from it.

BlakiepugAug 24, 201713 votes

{quoted}

You do know during preseason they will react faster with hotfixes right? They won't just sit on busted stuff and will work 10x harder to get stuff ready this time around, espically since they have to balance out 140 champions with the removal of masteries and runes and new runes. Sure it'll be a shit show, but a lot of good will come from it.

Do you know how long it took them to deal with the lethality meta they created at pre-season last year? That stuff was broken all the way through February.

KloqdqAug 24, 20174 votes

Yeah but they said themselves they aren't going to still on problems this time around. They learned how bad that can be with mastery's.

BlakiepugAug 24, 201712 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but they said themselves they aren't going to still on problems this time around. They learned how bad that can be with mastery's.

I will reserve my judgement until I see them actually follow through on that. They always said they would revert changes that don't work out but every time are stubborn and refuse to make follow-up changes to failures such as Rengar and Zac rework.