Supporting a champion who feeds off cheesing weak towers and wanting weak towers to be fixed makes no sense whatsoever. It's like condemning murder wholeheartedly yet still thinking a serial killer is righteous and good.
ChaddyFantome5 votesYou don't know what hypocrisy is. Ziggs bot being viable is perfectly okay. If people see it as anything resembling OP tho, it is indicative of towers being too weak, not him being to strong.
That is what people are saying.
These 2 things don't invalidate or contradict eachother in the slightest.
Darth Sidiouss2 votesits NOT viable by any means OP is correct its simply a early tower cheese on bot , any good jungler is gonna punish that lane over and over.
Darth Sidiouss2 votesThey feed and go like 0 9 every match going bot ive seen it with my eyes in my OWN matches and lost due to zigs APC it is TRASH. And when i VS teams with enemy zigs APC bot the team complains in all chat as well.
Marshbouy1 votesNo, you don't know what hypocrisy is. At the very least the two positions contradict. I will spell it out for you People want bot lane diversity because it has no diversity, this is fine, arguably very good for the game. People want bot tower to be less squishy and towers in general to be stronger. People want Ziggs bot to succeed because he means bot lane diversity.
The issue is that Ziggs thrives off abusing weak towers. If you want stronger towers, then it takes some serious mental gymnastics to support a champion abusing weak towers. If you said "while Ziggs is going bot for all the wrong reasons, the diversity is a good breath of fresh air" (or something along those lines) then it would make considerably more sense.
ChaddyFantome2 votesNo, you don't know what hypocrisy is. At the very least the two positions contradict. I will spell it out for you People want bot lane diversity because it has no diversity, this is fine, arguably very good for the game. People want bot tower to be less squishy and towers in general to be stronger. People want Ziggs bot to succeed because he means bot lane diversity.
The issue is that Ziggs thrives off abusing weak towers. If you want stronger towers, then it takes some serious mental gymnastics to support a champion abusing weak towers. If you said "while Ziggs is going bot for all the wrong reasons, the diversity is a good breath of fresh air" (or something along those lines) then it would make considerably more sense.
Again, ill spell it out for you. I can see why you would make the confused assumption that this is contradictory but it isn't. For it to be contradictory, you'd have to assume that Ziggs being powerful bot by itself means botlane diversity, which it doesn't.
The main thing to keep in mind is that Ziggs W executes towers. Executes This means that regardless of fortification, if a tower is at X HP or lower, he can nuke the thing.
Fortification increases would mainly affect actual marksman as opposed to Ziggs directly.
Marshbouy1 votesMore tower health means more health that anyone needs to tear through. More tower resistances means more resistances that buff the health. 25% will always be 25% of a tower, but the other 75% which he needs to AA down matters a fair amount (rough numbers, i know that his satchel charge damage can get a lot higher but it's just an example).
I forgot one part though. Ziggs bot also relies on snowballing the game off the first turret blood, a mechanic that a lot, and i mean a lot of the boards community hates.
ChaddyFantome1 votesMore tower health means more health that anyone needs to tear through. More tower resistances means more resistances that buff the health. 25% will always be 25% of a tower, but the other 75% which he needs to AA down matters a fair amount (rough numbers, i know that his satchel charge damage can get a lot higher but it's just an example).
Not so much that it actually breaks even with the net end result. You are more than likely sending your juggler and midlaner bot to hit the thing anyway so Ziggs can execute the tower.
I forgot one part though. Ziggs bot also relies on snowballing the game off the first turret blood, a mechanic that a lot, and i mean a lot of the boards community hates.
That's an issue on its own separate from Ziggs really. he just kind of rides its wave.
ChargeItDownMid3 votes[deleted]
Marshbouy1 votesYou cannot support X because of diversity when X is abusing problem Y, if you want problem Y solved at least. It's that simple. Wanting bot lane diversity is okay. Wanting bot lane to be less objective filled is great.
marksmen mains circle jerk
raucous laughter
RexSaur3 votesYou are 100% right.
"We hate weak towers, we hate towers dying so fast, but we like to see more of the champion that can kill towers pre 5 minutes!".
Its just blind adc hate at this point, the only reason ppl say they "like" bot ziggs here is because they dont want to see adcs being played anywhere.
Ackelope2 votesI think it's just two issues being unfortunately related and people being unaware of their correlation. People want stronger towers, but they also want more bot-lane diversity. When they see Ziggs appearing in the bottom lane, they think it's good that bot-lane has diversity, without thinking about why Ziggs is going bot anyway. The issue is that the people for bot-lane diversity haven't gotten much further than stating the fact that they want it, they don't seem to care how it's done and aren't looking for the connections of towers that die easily and champions that push down towers faster than any others.
Irelia Bot2 votesWhat if we like seeing marksmen feel as replaceable as any top lane champ for once?
TequilaZombie1 votesTo be honest, Ziggs deals comparable damage to towers as ADCs do during the whole game (and outscales them in the late game), bot lane or not. He might be a tad too strong right now in the bot lane, but he's still a tad too strong at mid as well, so I doubt the turrets are the main problem with him.
I enjoy Ziggs bot because it's a natural change of the meta. The first one regarding bot lane and ADCs ever since Season 1, when ADCs were the Mid Laners. For me, it could be Ziggs as well as Karthus, Oriana, Malzahar or whoever else you'd like. More diversity is a great thing.
About towers: Ziggs abuses their lack of defensive power, what most people complain about is their lack of offensive power. Sure, you see an ocasionl post here and there talking about how fast you can take a tower down, but the majority is talking about how weak they are in the sense that they are easily ignored during a dive and most champions can eat quite a few shots and leave with a decent amount of health.
Yes, Ziggs and weak turrets are related, but you could make towers stronger and, unless you only made it stronger against magic damage, he'd still oush it as fast as any ADC and would remain viable on bot lane.
It's not hypocrisy, they are correlated but not mutually exclusive subjects.
Meep Man1 votesSolution: Make towers better in ways other than being outright harder to kill. Like more Champion Damage. Maybe during the first few minutes of the game, similar to Fortifications, Bottom Lane Tower can shoot at up to two extra targets if they are enemy champions.
Marshbouy1 votesthat wouldn't affect how quickly they fall, but it would help with tower dives. I have some issue with tower dives, but way more issues with being able to take down a tower in <5 seconds solo, with only 3 items and a 6 caster minions.
Rock MD1 votes{quoted} It's like condemning murder wholeheartedly yet still thinking a serial killer is righteous and good.
I'm 90% positive there was a show about that.
And I'm 90% positive the majority of people would support it.
Marshbouy1 votesThere is a difference between finding a TV show about murders interesting, finding them thrilling, or at the least finding the plot good, and saying "i think murders are good people but I condemn murder"
Rock MD1 votesThere is a difference between finding a TV show about murders interesting, finding them thrilling, or at the least finding the plot good, and saying "i think murders are good people but I condemn murder"
No I'm referring to an anime where a serial killer is mistaken for righteous judgment.
Good show, but really just outlines how a lot of people would be content with poorer conditions so long as it satisfies their vendettas.
DunkinNoobs1 votesSimple solution: Buff towers and then also buff Ziggs. Ez.
ModRito Wuks1 votesThis thread has been archived. Commenting and voting have been disabled.