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I'm going to get downvoted to hell for this

Marshbouy··209 votes·7,598 views

But every game is not winnable. There are some games where you lose based on either the champ pick or the people on your team, in this case I am going to talk about the people on your team. No matter what higher elo players tell you, you cannot win if the enemy team gets over 20 kills ahead and they know what they are doing. This game is at least 30% luck. There is no possibility to carry if your team won't group, if the enemy ADC is killing you in 5 hits even with armor, if your teammates cannot take objectives, and if any other reason comes up that denies you the win. I'm not saying you should FF at 20 becasue your mid lane lux gave up first blood, oh no thats a tiny setback that most likely not affect much in low elo. What I am saying is that NOT EVERY DAMN GAME IS WINNABLE. This is a bronze QQ thread and I don't give to shits that it is. It's no different than people whining about DQ getting them matched with "bad players who got boosted" but it's not wanting Soloq back so it's going to get lost in the downvotes.

162 Comments

redniwediS95 votes

The reason higher elo players tell you every game is winnable is to get you playing every losing game as if you can win. That's how you should be playing, even if there's no possible way you can win.

You can't outright tell someone with a defeatist attitude this or else they will just ignore you, so you have to sugar coat it until they reach a point where they can fully understand what you're trying to say.

Dreadlocks31 votes

Partially true, also in lower elo, throwing is very common for multiple reasons.

Xrusa3 votes

Had a game on my smurf the other day where we were down by about 15 kills at 20 mins. We won because they kept giving away free teamfights and objectives.

Dreadlocks2 votes

Yeah, never know when someone is gana try to 2v5 with their friend and lose it all lol.

EndlessSorcerer21 votes

Had something similar happen in one of my recent games.

We were down 10k Gold, 25 kills, two Barons and a couple dragons.

Nevertheless, we managed to stall out their barons, steal one of the Elder Dragons and kill 4 members of the enemy without losing anyone during the last teamfight.

After that, we just shoved down the mid inhibitor tower, inhibitor, both nexus towers and the nexus before they respawned.

Throws happen at all levels of the game.

TauntyArmordillo1 votes

Even in LCS?

EndlessSorcerer4 votes

Even in LCS.

How many LCS games do you think have been turned around due to Baron steals, a properly executed wombo-combo, repeated picks or backdooring?

Faceroll Tactics7 votes

CLG vs RNG #MakeNAGreatAgain

dapositiveviking3 votes

ur summoner name explains darahan pretty well

Partholonian4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Red Rengo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UcwYAtrk,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-05-10T22:27:53.750+0000)

Partially true, also in lower elo, throwing is very common for multiple reasons.

That, and you never know who is going to DC. A lot of otherwise hopeless games suddenly become winnable if that hideously fed guy isn't in it anymore.

tidegate1 votes

I read this yesterday then later that day we lost a game we were 4 dragons and 5 towers ahead in because our support afked

Partholonian1 votes

{quoted}

I read this yesterday then later that day we lost a game we were 4 dragons and 5 towers ahead in because our support afked

I wonder whether the other team had any surrender votes fail, and how salty the people who proposed them got.

tidegate1 votes

Probably salty as the sea because we were stomping them until it turned into a 4v5

CowboyNinja1 votes

This more than anything. Team has a huge lead, then wins a team fight and all piles into the Baron pit with 1/3hp all while ignoring that the enemy Ziggs with Ult is still up.

Joquan1 votes

{quoted}

The reason higher elo players tell you every game is winnable is to get you playing every losing game as if you can win. That's how you should be playing, even if there's no possible way you can win.

If you can't win then why are you still playing the game? It's better to ff if you are 100% going to lose, you save yourself time and possible frustration.

redniwediS5 votes

I actually don't know why so many people have been replying to me as if I said you shouldn't surrender. Surrendering is a great option to get out of a losing game.

What I'm saying is, even if you plan on surrendering at the 20 minute mark, you should keep playing as if you're trying to win until that point happens. Until the surrender vote successfully happens you're not done with the game, and so you should keep trying.

Battlecast Sona3 votes

I think my main problem is what most people's definition of "100% going to lose" is. Being 8 kills down but now towers down shows that the enemy team isn't grouping for objectives with their kills - if the pattern continues it becomes a much easier to win game. So don't FF!

The only time I think surrendering due to a "100% lost game" is valid is if you've either lost at least 1 inhibitor or inhib turret very early or you've lost all but your inhib towers very early. Any point before that I think a game is still winnable, regardless of what the killscore is (since kills don't blow up your nexus)

SeargentAnus4 votes

If you deserve gold+ and you're in bronze nearly every game is winnable outside of the insane circumstances.

Xenos111112 votes

It's more like, you could probably win a lot of the games you think you have no chance of winning if you had better game knowledge/mechanics, or are good at coordinating your team and bringing out their potential in team fights using well-timed pings and positive/objective comments.

When you lose a game, there may be a lot of things a top tier player would have done in your place that game which wouldn't have even crossed your mind as a possibility.

That said though, there are those games which are just straight out unwinnable no matter what you do, or how good you are. But they are far and few between.

Mazariamonti26 votes

Every game is winnable, but you will not win every game. If you play well consistently, you will climb.

Biff Manly26 votes

This is 10% Luck, 20% Skill, 15% Concentrated Power of Will, 5% Pleasure, 50% Pain, and 100% reason to remember that it's just a fucking game

Let me surrender you chucklefucks, I don't care about learning from every soul-crushing, demoralizing stomp.

LordGeovanni4 votes

Its just a fucking game so don't ruin other peoples experience because you cant remember that in both the wins and losses

Powder Toastable1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Biff Manly,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UcwYAtrk,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-05-11T01:01:29.572+0000)

This is 10% Luck, 20% Skill, 15% Concentrated Power of Will, 5% Pleasure, 50% Pain, and 100% reason to remember that it's just a fucking game

Let me surrender you chucklefucks, I don't care about learning from every soul-crushing, demoralizing stomp.

that's not the final lyric from this .....

parody requires you re-write the entire thing.

You just stole lyrics to make a post...

for shame for shame so some respect for the artist and....remember his name.

Biff Manly6 votes

Fuck 'em. He knows the code. It's not about the salary, it's all about reality and making some noise.

...and my mindless jibber-jabber is definitely making noise.

TheStevenWu13 votes

You're right that not every game is winnable. However, most games are. If you're teammates are not surrendering, they probably have legitimate reason to believe they can win the game.

Most of the time, the people who claims a game is "unwinnable" have no idea what they're talking about. Look at the recent MSI game CLG vs RNG. NA was going against the #1 undefeated Chinese team. They battled on while down 20k gold. twenty-thousand gold. They won. They won because they knew they had a better teamfight comp, and that if they can survive until everyone has items and gold leads becomes obsolete, they can win teamfights and the game.

So no, I don't care if the enemy team's ADC is fed and 5 shotting our tanks 25 minutes into the game, because if I see that my team can get their shit together and turn it around in the next 15 minutes and stomp - I'm not going to surrender.

And also keep in mind that some people are better at different stages of the game. Some are bad at laning phase. Some are bad at mid-game objectives, Some are bad at lane pushing. Some are bad in teamfights. If you're team doesn't know how to take objectives, they might be godly in late game teamfights. All you have to do is get to the teamfight stage and take charge when it's time to push objectives.

Some gives are indeed unwinnable, but these games usually involves and afk/troll/disgustingly unbalanced teams.

fluxanna4 votes

"most" games.....?

You mean.... 50%.....

Sightless662 votes

Significantly more than 50% of games are winnable. Whether or not a player is good enough to win them is a different matter.

Troll for Trump2 votes

Not significantly. This season, the more changes that are added, the more people's winrates get closer to the 50/50 split.

President Swa1n2 votes

There is a difference between a 'winnable' game and a game that yu win

Troll for Trump2 votes

Games are either unwinnable for the enemy or our team

ahferroin73 votes

No, they aren't. A game is winnable for a team if there is a possibility for that team to win. A game can only be unwinnable for one team, but it very much can be winnable for both (for example, it usually is winnable for both at least until first blood, and often even beyond that point).

iamleburk2 votes

I don't think you know what the word winnable means...

It's true that one team will usually have an advantage, but all it takes is a couple small mistakes from the other team and you're golden.

ahferroin72 votes

I disagree on the 'if your teammates aren't surrendering, they probably think you can win' bit. I see more people who when asked say 'never surrender', or 'it's a learning experience' than that they think we can win. The first sentiment is just stupid period, and the second one is stupid beyond a specific point.

I don't mind waiting until actual teamfighting starts, but if we're 40 minutes in, haven't taken an objective, haven't won a teamfight, and aren't insanely ahead in kills, then it's probably time to surrender. There's a point beyond which wining becomes so unlikely that you're almost certainly wasting everyone's time by just not surrendering.

Athenes Lulu6 votes

Nah, you're not gonna downvoted as long as you have logical reasoning to back such claims up. At least sugar-coated enough reasoning to make it seem believable.

You're not wrong, but there's always something for you to do so you can play to improve, and not just play to win. People use the "you can win every game" advice as a way for people to not give up because of the smallest mistakes.

Hatsuma5 votes

2 words: death timers.

Mojihito6665 votes

This game is 80% luck 15% skill 5% vision.

OH MAN NOT GOOD4 votes

[deleted]

Dreadlocks2 votes

That's 80% o.o what abt the other 20

Marshbouy13 votes

uh 15% concentrated power or will and 5% pressure, i dunno

DorkunedAuras4 votes

You can win any game your team wants to win. I've come back and won games while 40+ kills down. Because my whole team was determined to win instead of give up.

If your team decides to lose, you lose. if your team decides to win anyway, you can win.

doodedge4 votes

I think it's safe to say it's a little closer to 80% luck.... 5 members on a team and any one of them can easily crap on a game beyond recovery. There are also times where you may play like shit but the four others can pull you through. Much much more match making luck than people like to admit.

AMYS GRAVE4 votes

I don't give to shits that it is.

two.

Pika Fox2 votes

Pretty much. This is a team game, and you only have absolute control over yourself. You are only 10% of the overall in game decisions and actions by players, and only 20% of your team's input.

It doesnt matter how well you do, it matters how well your team does. Unless you severely outskill your opponents and get lucky in being able to get free solo split pushes, you arent going to solo carry. Your team will need to pull some degree of weight.

Very few games are winnable solely by you. Most games are winnable as a team. But some games your team just wont be able to pull their own weight, or you wont be able to pull yours. Be it teamcomp, D/C, troll, inexperience, lag, enemy team being that much better in general compared to your team, some games are decided at champ select.

DarthSpectrum2 votes

You're not wrong. From my experience, 20% of all games are up to chance. Incompetent teammates have a far larger impact than decent teammates. Depending on who you and your opponents get paired with, some games are guaranteed wins or loses.

That said, I've also noticed a trend that all my friends above Gold rarely surrenders. Even if your team is 10k behind in Gold, there is still a chance you can win. Forfeiting the game means that you give up that chance. In every game, no matter the circumstance, you need to play as if you can win. If you are unwilling to do this, get out of ranked. You won't ever get a decent rank with a poor attitude.

On the current patch, all it takes is one good team fight in the late game to win. If your ADC is alive, you can break through all 5 towers down mid during the death timers. I have seen many games won while the winning team is in deficient because they managed to aced the enemy team a single time.

The only time I would choose to forfeit would be if my teammates were trash. By that, I don't mean TF players who go 0/3 against Zed or junglers who accidentally gave a double kill due to an outplay. I'm referring to those who are trolling, those who have no idea how to play their champions, and those who are boosted. From my recent ranked games, I can only think of 2 instances in which I encountered these kind of players in my game. I had a Vayne who kept trying to face check bushes and refused to stay behind back lines. She went something like 1/10. My team still managed to drag the game out to 40+ minutes, but atlas she got caught and we lost. It was probably inevitable, but my team and I still played the game out. In the other game, I had a Leona one trick who got hard countered. She flamed the entire team after feeding despite everyone else telling her that she can't just engage as Leona against Morgana in lane. I was playing with friends during that game, and we surrendered that one because we didn't want to deal with her.

Unless your teammates are bad, don't surrender. The odds for victory may be low, but giving up is essentially the same as throwing these games. It might not seem significant now, but these losses will accumulate in the long run.

Hollowchazz2 votes

Every game is "winnable". To say that it's impossible to win means that there is no physical way the enemies nexus can be destroyed.

Now are there games that are 15-20k gold behind and have a 1% chance of winning? yeah sure.

You must remember that deaths 30minutes+ are longer than the early ones, minions and monsters are worth a little more gold AND if you make it to 40-45 minutes the power difference will be much less.

you might win 1 in 10 "unwinnable" games

the only truly unwinnable game is one that has a 4-1 surrender vote.

I have won a game where nexus had 1k hp left but we cleaned them up before they could end. I have lost games where we had a 10-0 evelyn because evelyn sucks at mid/late game.

GuiltyGecko2 votes

Morale is the most important factor in game. I've lost completely winnable games because when we were down 2 kills someone says "gg, it's over. I'm done." I've also won games that seemed hopeless because everyone on the team says "We got this, we can do this".

Unfortunately, I feel that in too many games that I have to stroke one teammate's ego so they don't go on tilt and just quit on the team.

VenenumLT1 votes

I should be challenger, but noob teams hold me back.

Marshbouy2 votes

Nope. At best im maybe gold or high silver but I'm tired of high elo players telling me every game is winnable and if we lose its my fault

Wild Geese1 votes

Thinking you've lost the game for sure is not really a good mindset for winning, The very highest skilled players I know in league (And dota, street fighter, counterstrike.. all games) - Absolutely never give up on any game. I've been there watching them play games like 40-2 and not hitting surrender, going as far as to say the entire enemy team could feed themselves to the fountain while they're hitting the Nexus.

Surrender is an absolutely worthless concept in a videogame like this, you don't maintain any resources for surrender, this isn't a war. You don't lose less if surrender, all surrender nets you is a little time for the loss of a potential victory. If I could change one thing in League, I'd remove the surrender feature so people wouldn't be so encouraged to just give up.

Partholonian2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wild Geese,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UcwYAtrk,comment-id=0046,timestamp=2016-05-12T18:32:52.792+0000)

street fighter

Daigo didn't give up when he was at such low health he couldn't even block a super without dying from the chip damage, and his opponent had like 1/3 of his health bar.

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