I played with a jungler who refused to gank, against an illaoi.

Marshbouy·Oct 2, 2016·182 votes·7,950 views

And you know what I did? Well i got behind in lane of course and got zoned off a lot of CS because the illaoi was better than me(and also dealing about 200 damage with no items and only one tentacle). I waited and played passively as to not feed kills. I just relaxed and tried to dodge as many tentacles as possible. I build armor and refillable pots so i didn't have to spend as much gold on trying to sustain to my next TP. Eventually my malzahar came up to help me and we managed to take tower. I compliment my team on things they had accomplished (taking turrets, dragons, kills ETC)

You know what I didn't do? I did not get tilted and flame my team for not assisting. I did not go in for useless kills and die. I did not continue to build offensively. I did not go on the boards and make a rage post about how OP illaoi is.

I'm definitely not a perfect example, but I am a far better than many (at least in this one game).

222 Comments

statelesskillerOct 2, 201682 votes

as a rule of thumb for junglers with illaoi

pre-6 gankable but proceed with caution

6 and post 6. NO GO. leave your top laner to his fate. do not interfere. only fight this if you have a malzahar top or garen. or a soraka is coming to help. UNDER NO OTHER CONDITION DO YOU ATTEMPT THIS

AirKingNeoOct 2, 20166 votes

Huh? I've ganked Illaoi all the time as a jungler and it's easy. Just don't let her ult. Kite it. If you're both melee, kill her. She's not hard to beat or gank.

Velzard of KozOct 2, 201656 votes

If you're both melee, kill her

Can confirm this also works against supports.. and adcs... and midlaners... and junglers... and toplaners... death is the best cc

Stand in my XOct 2, 20169 votes

Darius approves

Legacy HydralphaOct 2, 201621 votes

Karthus lol

AstôlfoOct 2, 201623 votes

Post-6 ganks work perfectly fine provided she's generally pushed up to her enemy's tower. Flank in, both players dodge her E, bait her ult (back out before it hits both of you so it only hits one if possible), back out (jungler goes towards her tower, laner runs out towards you), pin her between your tower and the two of you out of range of her ultimate. Afterwards, just CC and kill her, or otherwise force her to burn Flash. Malzahar is a great ganker against her.

But yes, most people generally don't know squat on how to gank post-6, so you really shouldn't unless you know how.

SmileInABoxOct 2, 20165 votes

I've played a decent amount of Illaoi, and the only safe, reliable way to gank her post 6 is to chain cc and keep spread out. Most importantly, don't underestimate the potential for a flash ult. Illaoi is practically the queen of 2v1, if you can't follow this don't even try to gank her.

Spacesuit SpiffOct 2, 201621 votes

You GREATLY overestimate the coordination that happens during ganks. By assuming there is any.

AstôlfoOct 2, 20166 votes

Eh, that's their issue.

MonkeyMadnessOct 2, 20164 votes

That's the issue with Riot refusing to enable in game voice chat...Stop blaming players for lacking the resources that have basically become a standard in online games.

AstôlfoOct 2, 201610 votes

You do realize the issue is that it's far harder to monitor? And there will be the same toxicity issue there is through chat, except voice recognition is far shittier than text recognition?

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20161 votes

No other game that I have played has League's toxicity issues. This tells me that either the game is just inherently toxic and Riot is wasting time, money, and manpower, or that Riot's definition of toxicity is just fked up. I'm inclined to think the latter is more likely true.

Here's the facts, if you want to play this game "correctly" (and Riot's definition of "correctly" is with team coordination, hence why they are pushing DQ so hard), you NEED voice comms. Instead of this premade favoritism they are currently displaying, they could just release in game voice chat for everyone. That would SIGNIFICANTLY reduce the number of DQ complaints and probably would have all together avoided the cluster fuck that was season 6.

Also, let's not pretend that Riot is somehow incapable of policing a voice chat system for toxicity. They are ABSURDLY rich and they only have 1 game. It's not like they have to divide their attention like literally every other big game company. If you are telling me that Riot can't find a way to police a voice chat system, then they have even shittier management than I previously believed.

AstôlfoOct 3, 20165 votes

Um, it doesn't matter how rich they are. Of a playerbase with millions of people, even if only 5% report, that's still 5,000 per million. And a game is on average, 40 minutes long. That's 200,000 minutes of audio per million people. That means people need to listen through it.

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20161 votes

And you think you can't program a bot to catch certain words/phrases deemed toxic? That's literally 1 step up from what their current bot already does...You could literally just use a speech-to-text program to convert it to typed chat, then have the ban bot go through it like normal. The fact is, if Riot uses this excuse, they are being straight up 100% lazy fucks. Done.

AstôlfoOct 3, 20167 votes

Let's see.

Try any voice recognition program. Try speaking for about 10-20 minutes. Include said game-context only speech (GG/jungler/gank/'TP'/etc). Tell me how well it does.

Now imagine what it's like factoring in accents and people's personal dialect and slang and such. (What did you = Whaddya for example).

It's not that realistic.

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20161 votes

Are you kidding me? My fucking cell phone google app can figure this shit out, and I would imagine if Riot really wanted to sit down and put in some effort, they could make something waaay better. The fact is, they are lazy and utterly convinced everything they do is the absolute best for the game, even when presented with evidence to the contrary.

AstôlfoOct 3, 20166 votes

Why do you talk so much when you know so little?

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20162 votes

Why do you insist upon disagreeing with a plat player on gameplay issues when you currently sit in bronze 4?

AstôlfoOct 3, 201612 votes

Because said Plat player apparently knows even less than said Bronze 4?

Pale PirateOct 3, 20163 votes

No coordination is actually needed. Just two people who know how to individually play against an Illaoi.

MonkeyMadnessOct 2, 20161 votes

Bait the ult? There really isn't enough delay to dodge it, meaning that the only way to fight her is to back off while the ult tentacles are active, which is long enough for her to either escape or fall back to her real tentacles. MUCH easier said than done.

maikokkOct 2, 20166 votes

sorry, but the animation is prretty long for its short range (probably the longest cast time in the game for a point blank ability) And has a strong audio cue attached to it before the animation even starts. so yes, its incredibly easy to dodge... without a dash, or a speed boost. or anything. you can literally right click from being within melee range of Illaoi to being outside of her ult range within the time it takes to cast her ult.

if bronze 3 can do it you can too

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20161 votes

And if your ping is above 20, this is not going to be practical. Even with such a ridiculously low ping, do you have any idea how fast your reflexes need to be to get out of range of this spell? Without flash or some other EXTREMELY quick blink spell, you have virtually 0 chance of dodging this ability. You 100% cannot just walk out.

AstôlfoOct 3, 20166 votes

He means walk out of the tentacle pit, not avoiding the ultimate altogether. It'd help if you used common sense.

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20161 votes

Actually, no this is in no way what he said...

the animation is prretty long for its short range (probably the longest cast time in the game for a point blank ability) And has a strong audio cue attached to it before the animation even starts. so yes, its incredibly easy to dodge

In no way can this statement be interpretted to mean anything other than "it is easy to dodge ultimate altogether". So perhaps instead of telling me to get some common sense, perhaps you should work on your literacy. Also, I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop harassing me in literally every single post I comment on. I present logical information and you just systematically disagree with it. I can only assume at this point it's intentional.

AstôlfoOct 3, 20166 votes

Logical information implies the entailing of logic. You have not shown a single instance of it so far.

AstôlfoOct 2, 20164 votes

Incorrect.

The ultimate does not actually "happen" until Illaoi finishes the leaping animation and then slams into the ground. The ultimate also does not do anything except make the tentacles.

The only way to make the tentacles swing is through either hitting something with her W or by having a Spirit out, which will cause all tentacles in range to hit it. There should not be a Spirit out in the first place, because both parties should have been able to dodge it. The W range is quite short, and the tentacle(s) will not swing until she actually hits the target, which is to say, the leaping animation is just excess time for the Illaoi player.

Also, she won't escape if you flanked her in the first place between your tower while she was pushed up (which she'd naturally do through nature of her Q waveclear/Ws/occasional slams from Vessel-targeting). Like I said, once she's relatively close to her enemy's tower, flank her and push in as far as you can to increase the distance you'd have. Once she inevitably throws out her E, whichever party she aimed it at then dodges.

After said point, she will be forced to burn her ultimate sooner or later unless she wants to have no chance at all, at which point she'll burn said ultimate. Now, since said tentacle pit from her ultimate will be fairly close to her enemy's tower , just back out through the lane towards her tower. The tentacle pit is now out of range, but she is still trapped between the two of you. Also, if reactions are fast enough, one or both of you could potentially back out of the range of her ultimate's slam in the first place before it even spawns tentacles.

CC her and start hitting her. One of you should have some method of applying GW, because both the laner and jungler really should not be AP (AKA, one of them should have Executioner's Calling). Start damaging her. She has no mobility nor escape nor any other realistic mass damage at this point. She will either die or burn Flash if it's up or take a hefty bit of damage.

Sooo...

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20161 votes

The ultimate also does not do anything except make the tentacles.

It deals damage sooo...Also, even with the delay, the only way you are "getting out of it" is with a VERY well timed flash or other quick mobility skill (which your jungler may have been forced to use in order to initiate the gank in the first place).

The only way to make the tentacles swing is through either hitting something with her W or by having a Spirit out, which will cause all tentacles in range to hit it. Also, even with the delay, the only way you are "getting out of it" is with a VERY well timed flash or other quick mobility skill (which your jungler may have been forced to use in order to initiate the gank in the first place).

And when her ult is active, the W cd is like 2 seconds sooo...

The fact is that Illaoi is INCREDIBLY strong in 1v2 scenarios unless she is significantly behind. She has MASSIVE healing and MASSIVE aoe dmg. It is not practical at all to gank her post 6, and pre 6 can cause problems without proper coordination.

AstôlfoOct 3, 20165 votes

The damage on the ult is so short-range it's irrelevant unless she was practically on top of you. Your issue.

She doesn't have massive healing with GW. She also doesn't have it against anyone smart enough to avoid said hits in the first place. W being 2-second cooldown is irrelevant when her tentacle pit will be out of range and she's CC'd. So no, she should not have massive AoE either.

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20161 votes

Who the fuck builds grievous wonds as an early item? More importantly, please give me a current meta top laner that builds grievous wounds at all? Every top laner I can think of off the top of my head has more important items to get than an early executioners calling...

Also, stop saying that CC is a counter. CC counters literally 100% of all champions in the game. This is not a counter. That's like saying "the counter to champion X is to just kill them". No shit, that would solve your problems.

As for the range, a good Illaoi isn't going to present an opportunity for you to dodge the ult. And even if you do flash out of it, she will likely already have one of the targets soul-bound, or whatever that ghost shit is called, meaning that no matter how good your flash timing is, she will still get at least 1 extra tentacle. And if she's good and retreats back toward the wall near her other tentacles, you are fucked.

AstôlfoOct 3, 20168 votes

It's called counterbuilding you blithering fool. Same applies as any other AD top that'd get Executioner's Calling against a sustain heavy top (Mundo/Swain/Darius/etc).

Irrelevant and meaningfully incorrect. CC does counter every champion in the game. It does not counter every champion in the game equally. Get a better attempt at a counterpoint.

sigh Not this shit again. You can use the "they're a good player" argument with literally either side. It means nothing. And no, she should not have a Spirit out if either of the two enemy players were half-brained enough to step to the side instead of eating her E to their face. And the ult doesn't matter if you don't fight inside it.

The whole damned point is to keep her pinned and trapped away from her tentacles, genius. But sure, state whatever points you want that rely on the enemy players being shit to justify Illaoi being "strong".

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20161 votes

Ok, I'm just gonna say this right now because you have entirely pissed me off over the course of the past couple weeks with your incessant need to spam this blatantly moronic shit on my comments: you are bronze, I am plat. I have played enough high level games at both top and jungle (in fact, I am a jungle main, and I usually pick top as my secondary) to know that ganking an Illaoi is a fucking death sentence, usually for both players. Stop acting like you know the game better than I, the only empirical evidence available completely disproves this...

AstôlfoOct 3, 20169 votes

"you are bronze, I am plat" Okay, so what? You apparently know even less than I do, which just makes it even more sad (and hilarious, in a way).

"I have played enough high level games at both top and jungle [...] to know that ganking an Illaoi is a fucking death sentence, usually for both players" Obviously not, if you still think that way.

"Stop acting like you know the game better than I, the only empirical evidence available completely disproves this..." Coming from the one still crying about Illaoi? mmk.

Asayake 5150glowOct 3, 20162 votes

{quoted}

"you are bronze, I am plat" Okay, so what? You apparently know even less than I do, which just makes it even more sad (and hilarious, in a way).

"I have played enough high level games at both top and jungle [...] to know that ganking an Illaoi is a fucking death sentence, usually for both players" Obviously not, if you still think that way.

"Stop acting like you know the game better than I, the only empirical evidence available completely disproves this..." Coming from the one still crying about Illaoi? mmk.

Well, I mean if you got a strong duelist jgler and Illaoi is mispositioned/without ulti... I've had a xin come and gank, I ran away since i was low and didnt wanna fight her, and xin ended up killing her on his own 0_o

Mai Waifu IreliaOct 3, 20164 votes

As someone who was sitting between at p3 and p2 for most of the season and is a top main, you're simply incorrect. If my jungler refuses to gank illaoi post 6* and justifies it with "lolno she'll kill us both" I more or less expect them to be as useful as a beginner bot the rest of the game and try to play around it.

Illaoi is completely outplayable bar her W because it's point and click.

Also you don't even need grievous wounds because she only gets the heal if her tentacles hit. Literally get good and attack in bursts instead of just trying to tunnel her down and she turns into a whacky inflatable armed tube woman.

She's also super easy to bait into trades or ganks by walking up to a tentacle near her because 8 times out of 10 she will try to stop you killing it. The trick is just to kill the tentacle before it's attack goes off, suddenly illaoi is left not near a tentacle and forced to take a bad trade and retreat or try to all in you with ult.

*The exception being if she is already fed enough to be 2+ levels above myself and the jungler (this isn't illaoi-specific)

MonkeyMadnessOct 3, 20161 votes

Attacking in bursts is all fine and dandy, but this is simply not possible in the early parts of the game in a 1v1 or 1v2. And even though he tentacle slams do have reasonable delay, if you go in on her and start attacking, it's very difficult to simply "dodge" them without using either flash or some other blink ability. Also, the ghost can't dodge, so she's guaranteed at least some damage and healing regardless of whether or not you dodge the tentacles. Late game, Illaoi falls quickly to even poorly coordinated burst, but her early game is simply oppressive as long as the Illaoi player isn't a moron.

AstôlfoOct 3, 20163 votes

You shouldn't be dueling her for long periods of time in the first place around areas with lots of spawned tentacles.

Sure, the Spirit can't dodge. That only applies if you decided to not move and ate her E to the face in the first place.

Dodging the tentacles 101, protip guide:

Get Illaoi to cause a tentacle to swing at you.
Right click to the side.
???
Profit?

Also, the Spirit's duration for which it remains out decreases by 1 second for every tick of damage Illaoi takes.

DroogzyOct 2, 20168 votes

Can second this. After 6 v.s. Illaoi, you're on your own.

It Hertz When IPOct 2, 20162 votes

It's very doable if either the jungler or the toplaner has Grevious Wounds. Hell, against an Illaoi your top laner should be building it anyway.

After 6 though, it depends very heavily on what champions you and your jungler are using. I know as Illaoi top I've turned ganks into double kills post-6 many, many times.

AstôlfoOct 2, 20164 votes

Just bait her ult and then don't fight inside it. Apply GW to ruin her healing. CC her. Kill her/burn her Flash.

I mean I can turn most ganks into double kills. Most of the people ganking me are also garbage in the aspect they're absolutely clueless on how to gank Illaoi.

LordBahamutXVIOct 2, 20162 votes

Can confirm. Silence really messes with Illaoi's fighting, because ALL OF HER DAMAGE COMES FROM ABILITIES WITH LOW CDS. If she's silenced for 2 seconds she dies because all she does is auto and her tentacles stare at you as you die horribly.

AstôlfoOct 2, 20161 votes

Or alternatively, any movement-locking CC, as her W is treated as a dash + empowered auto. If she can't get into range to auto, then nothing will happen.

LordBahamutXVIOct 3, 20161 votes

that does not stop q or e or ult, all of which she can hurt you badly with. She doesn't need to move to kill you

AstôlfoOct 3, 20163 votes

Um. You shouldn't be standing still to get hit by her Q or E anyways. And the W causing the tentacles to slam is the main source of damage. And the damage from the initial ult itself is so short-range it shouldn't matter.

HateDaddyOct 3, 20163 votes

{quoted}

as a rule of thumb for junglers with illaoi

pre-6 gankable but proceed with caution

6 and post 6. NO GO. leave your top laner to his fate. do not interfere. only fight this if you have a malzahar top or garen. or a soraka is coming to help. UNDER NO OTHER CONDITION DO YOU ATTEMPT THIS

You can gank her post 6, just take out a tentacle so you can kite to that area because once Illaoi goes in, there's really no going out for her. But you still have to be mindful of her ult and disengaging once she pops it. Then re-engage.

Illaoi isn't ungankable, she's just oppressive as shit vs melees and your top laner will need help if he's a melee champion. And don't let her get first tower, she's snowballs pretty hard in lane with a minimal amount of gold.

BRUHDASRACISXDOct 3, 20161 votes

{quoted}

as a rule of thumb for junglers with illaoi

pre-6 gankable but proceed with caution

6 and post 6. NO GO. leave your top laner to his fate. do not interfere. only fight this if you have a malzahar top or garen. or a soraka is coming to help. UNDER NO OTHER CONDITION DO YOU ATTEMPT THIS

This is hella dumb.

Why the upvotes?

Illaoi is broken af, but she can still be killed.

Is she low? Killable. is her E or ult down? Killable.

She is kind of like darius. If you can dodge her Q, you have a good chance at killing her.

You just have to avoid her skillshots and get out of her mosh pit. If she ults you leave. I dont understand junglers who wont gnk certain champions or lanes. Dumbest shit ever.

statelesskillerOct 3, 20161 votes

because the whole "if she ults you leave" mentality means you just wasted precious time. and health. and potentially your own ult to achieve . . . a temporary lane advantage?

im not saying she is broken either. but i AM saying she is quite dangerous once she hits 6. basically if your laner cant solo kill her. there is 0 reason for you to go anywhere near that lane. you will only make things worse

AstôlfoOct 3, 20163 votes

Congratulations, you wasted like 2s to go in and then walk back out, while not getting hit by more than one tentacle at the most, if that. You shouldn't be ulting to bait hers anyways.

And a huge amount of toplaners are dangerous at 6. Soo.... And no, you can easily gank and kill her provided you actually know what you're doing.

EROTIC RAID BOSSOct 3, 20163 votes

You can also try to bait out the ultimate walk away and come back again while its on CD

Pale PirateOct 3, 20163 votes

You... can gank an Illaoi after 6, it's just that you both need to be ready to back off if you let her get the upper hand of the situation.

As an illaoi player, if I realize I'm getting ganked I'll look to get next to a tentacle, hit someone with E, and wait for the right moment to ult. If you let me do that, you must INSTANTLY back away, and consider whether you should re-engage or leave.

The difference with Illaoi when compared to other champions, is that you must get a correct read on the situation before you commit to the fight. If you hard-commit, either she will die or you will; Fleeing may not be a possible option.

So, when ganking an Illaoi: Avoiding E can be very important. If she hits E, do NOT commit unless you are certain you can burst her down. If you can't burst her down she will kill you. Not committing is usually the best option, poking her from distance and going slightly more aggressive when she get far enough from her tentacles. Try baiting her; once she feels threatened enough, she will ult; just back away. The tentacles from her ultimate won't be able to reach you. She may decide to stay in her ultimate's zone, in which case you just wait for it to end, but most probably she will decide to exit it to attack or run, in which case you can jump on her; your laner/jungler will also get to her shortly, and you should be able to beat her up.