Knockbacks on innitiations are counterproductive.

Kowe The Ewok·Dec 27, 2014·1 votes·572 views

It's an issue both (E) and (R) have. To some extend (E) as well, but it's not as bad for her since it transform into a stun and her ultimate actually allows her to sruvive it.

The issue with knockbacks on innitiation skills is easy: If you want to catch an out of position target you may actually put it into safety. Either way you (usually) push it father away from the team (in a normal teamfight). Transfoming the knockback into an advantage usually takes more ressources as it is worth.

8 Comments

JamareeDec 27, 20144 votes

That is why you are supposed to get behind them before using it.

Kowe The EwokDec 27, 20141 votes

Transfoming the knockback into an advantage usually takes more ressources as it is worth.

That's what this part is about. Not to mention to "simply get behind them" is simply not doable in most fights (against decent enemies). Especially since you ultimately needs your innitiation tool itself to even get in a position behind them.

EDIT: (Not to mention that you create an opening for you enemies to innitiate 5v4 against your team of 5v1 against you)

JamareeDec 27, 20143 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yiEB3nxM,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2014-12-27T12:41:37.271+0000)

That's what this part is about. Not to mention to "simply get behind them" is simply not doable in most fights (against decent enemies). Especially since you ultimately needs your innitiation tool itself to even get in a position behind them.

I'm not sure it should exactly just be that easy and that is why you need to time it a bit more properly then other initiations.

Kowe The EwokDec 27, 20141 votes

It's about timing but poistion.

If you find youself in a position where you truly can use this from behind, you yourself are in a situation where the enemies can go in 5v4 against your team or 5v1 against you (considering the different pathes of the map and the time it'ld take to get behind them).

JustMyBassCannonDec 27, 20144 votes

Shyvana's ultimate knockback is small enough that it will never actually save someone. It's about as strong a knockback as Rammus/Maokai Q spells. It's there for the interrupt, rather than the knocking effect.

Hecarim also has his ultimate for initiation, and tends to build for mobility so that he can use the +75% MS steroid to run behind his target before knocking them back.

Poppy...is literally attached to her target when she knocks them back, so even if she doesn't slam them into a wall, she's right freaking next to them. And she has an MS steroid to stick to them.

Knockbacks on gap closers are not problematic if you know what you are doing. It's something you are supposed to learn to use properly.

JamareeDec 27, 20142 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kowe The Ewok,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yiEB3nxM,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2014-12-27T12:54:52.650+0000)

It's about timing but poistion.

If you find youself in a position where you truly can use this from behind, you yourself are in a situation where the enemies can go in 5v4 against your team or 5v1 against you (considering the different pathes of the map and the time it'ld take to get behind them).

Well, in the case of Hecarim, that really isn't a problem seeing as he can use his ulti as an initiation as for Shyvana, the knock back isn't far enough to your enemies to really be able to be saved by it, and it is more so just another hard CC tacked on. It just means you can't use it going forward and instead use one of your other gap closers to get in, then use it.

FiraBurnDec 27, 20141 votes

Hec use his ult. Shyv is a garbage champ no1 cares about don't use her. And not sure poppy usually initiate fights.

AtheosisXDec 27, 20141 votes

In Hecarim's case he's more meant to be a disruptive force than an initiator. In fact you can use him as a counter-initiator quite well. You don't use Hecarim's ult like you use Malphite's ult.