COTC wasn't half as overbearing after its initial round of nerfs as Aftershock continues to be after repeated changes, and COTC wasn't used by mages to completely nullify trading potential.
Can we have COTC back now? This keystone was clearly much healthier.
BLIGHTBRINGER20 votesIs asking for Deathfire Touch to be brought back too much?
But getting back on the subject, I agree. I actually liked the design of that Keystone. Gave ways for tanks to do what they are meant for, you know.. Actually tanking damage lol, instead of returning some of it back.
floo4 votes[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ygWWKwq8,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-10T20:08:00.620+0000)
Is asking for Deathfire Touch to be brought back too much?
But getting back on the subject, I agree. I actually liked the design of that Keystone. Gave ways for tanks to do what they are meant for, you know.. Actually tanking damage lol, instead of returning some of it back.
DoT champs are still without a proper keystone and instead run mediocre Dark Harvest, Electrocute or Aery..
BLIGHTBRINGER1 votesIt's the worst.
Like I don't want to pick a Rune that doesn't synergize with my playstyle (Malzahar a Damage over Time focused Mage).
But only 2 Runes that work well with DoT are still mediocre. I've been running Dark Harvest on Malzahar because running an Enchanter based Rune (Aery) just doesn't feel right.
Like what the hell am I going to be shielding with it lol? Those other DoT Mages who are still using Aery, are essentially using half of the Runes total power.
floo2 votes[{quoted}](name=Darkin Hybrid,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ygWWKwq8,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-06-10T23:06:15.742+0000)
It's the worst.
Like I don't want to pick a Rune that doesn't synergize with my playstyle (Malzahar a Damage over Time focused Mage).
But only 2 Runes that work well with DoT are still mediocre. I've been running Dark Harvest on Malzahar because running an Enchanter based Rune (Aery) just doesn't feel right.
Like what the hell am I going to be shielding with it lol? Those other DoT Mages who are still using Aery, are essentially using half of the Runes total power.
Technically you aren't. You proc the rune multiple times in a fight, where shielding an ally would just lower your damage output. The inconsistency however, makes it feel bad to play with. Aery has to travel back to proc again, and based on the distance and the DoT timer, you can only proc it a few times. While an enchanter for example will have 50/50 or more 70/30 shield/damage procs, their overall damage output by the rune will be far lower than the one of a DoT mage.
Anu3isII5 votesThe idea behind taking Aery on DoT champions is that they proc it multiple times with one ability and they can throw Aery continuously at opponents.
And don't get me wrong, but Dark Harvest is only worth on very few champions. You'd be better with other Runes for damage, including Aery, which isn't as bad as people say.
Voluug131 votesTo be fair Aery procs multiple times for Malz on his prefered range of engagement: being dived almost near melee.
Thefrostyviking1 votesDoT champs often do too much damage with a proper keystone, hells, even items like Liandry often end up making them borderline broken once gained.
Then some oddballs like Jhin also end up breaking them depending on scalings.
Kirtoisplayz2 votesYo remember kayn blue deathfire that shit was halrious for stacking passive XD personally i want warriors bloodlust back that shit was gr8 with yas and honestly a fun rune and ferver of battle although eletricute became the new thunder lords decree i belive
Celestial Lion121 votesIs asking for Deathfire Touch to be brought back too much?
nah there are pretty much no options for dot mages at the moment. Aery is okay but synergyzes better with enchanters, dark harvest isnt bad because tick dmg but is very feast or famine.
AirKingNeo1 votesDeathfire Touch broke DoT effects.
SuicidePlank15 votesCan we have TLD back too? Dealt way less DMG than Electrocute and also had a lot more User.
Ragnaveil3 votesI wouldn't mind, makes cheesy level 1s less cheesy with the rune.
Ralanr9 votesI'd actually prefer TLD not come back because of how many people had access to it. It just kinda ruined attempts at diversity because it was so accessible and good in comparison to others.
SuicidePlank9 votesI'd actually prefer TLD not come back because of how many people had access to it. It just kinda ruined attempts at diversity because it was so accessible and good in comparison to others.
Where is the diversity in Runes right now? Like there are 1-2 Runes for each class, that's it.
Ralanr3 votesBetter 1-2 runes for each class than almost every champion using the same rune.
SuicidePlank4 votesBetter 1-2 runes for each class than almost every champion using the same rune.
Bruisers had Fevor, Tanks had Courage and Grasp, Enchanter had Windspeakers, Mages had TLD AND Deathfire, ADCs had Fevor and Warlords. Plus a few niche Runes for Champs, like DFG for Jhin, Stormraiders for Ryze.
So where do you come form that almost every champion used TLD? :D
Ralanr7 votesExperience. Most champions used TLD because it was much easier to proc outside of a few outlier champions who had better options. Don't get me wrong, things like Fervor and Grasp were taken (though Fervor only got popular later in the lifetime) but there was a time where "League of Thunderlords" was a common complaint about keystones.
Sinister Anubis2 votesCan we have TLD back too? Dealt way less DMG than Electrocute and also had a lot more User.
I remember everyone using Thunderlords
Ragnaveil11 votesPlease bring back CotC. Giving a rune the ability to give resists by design breaks things, be it damage dealers or in some cases tanks (Rammus). This change would also mean Riot would have to give some actual care towards tanks, and one easy thing is just lowing the % of pen atm. LDR and Void where they stand right now is absolute overkill. Also would probably buff the base stats of tanks. The base resists should roughly be the same or slightly higher than Juggernauts. This is how I vision % Pen should be ATM: LDR: 25% Mortal: 20% LW: 15% Void: 30% or if that's still too high 25%.
Helps get rid of this ridiculous burst meta. Riot isn't actually wrong about damage not changing, but how pen vs resists goes, its way pen favored to the point resists have no day in hell to compete.
Tr4shB4NSYST3M5 votesYup CotC, scaled with # of enemies present, and was not nearly as strong early and midgame as aftershock especially on non-tank users.
The shield scaled better for tanks, as I would expect is intended from a rune like this, and scaled decently into lategame so that in teamfights tanks wouldn't just Melt super fast.
Bringing CotC back instead of aftershock would give more people a reason to play tanks (less fall-off in the late game from dmg itemization outscaling defense) and would be less abusable by champions building little to no defenses. Its a WIN WIN.
IShowerWithUrDad4 votes[deleted]
Saezio28 votesYou are thinking of stoneborn pact If I am not mistaken.
CotC gave a shield when the user CCd a champion.
Tahminatrix 1 votesI thought stoneborn pact was the one that gave your teammates damage reduction when nearby
[sg-zephyr]
jocomotion3 votesThat was windspeakers blessing, and it gave temporary Armor/MR on shields and heals
ninjaroxas3 votesNah there was a keystone that had a knights vow effect on it
flibitydoo3 votesI assume you refer to Bond of Stone
the boring 4% damage reduction keystone (boring as in that personal damage reduction didn't change your playstyle at all), that let you absorb non-relevant amounts of damage from your teammates? (cause let's face it, 6% damage reduction for a squishy adc is not gonna save anything).
was replaced like midway through the season with the "cc enemy champions to mark them, allies attacking marked champions heal".
ninjaroxas1 votesMhm. I wish the 2nd bond of stone was still a keystone rather then a minor rune
Keshaun4 votesI am down because fuck Aftershock.
Asud4 votesRunes reforged is overall a terrible design and should never have happened. All they had to do is to make those rune shards free or low cost like they did before withdrawing them, and all would have been great. It gave us so much more versatility and ways to cheese and outplay with some clever little tricks in runes and masteries. Gods i miss 25 lethality Sion lvl 1 Just as i miss going to brush to get that mini duskblade proc on syndra from the mastery whose name i cant even remember anymore. Tanks went armor hp and magic resist in runes, and defensive in masteries. If played smart couldnt possibly die in lane but then again if u played smart you wouldnt get solo killed by god damn tahm kench on lvl 2 in the middle of a minion wave.
Saezio2 votesWould CotC be broken though that's the question. Because it will need to have much higher scalings/base now that it's not a mastery but a rune.
SuicidePlank1 votesWould CotC be broken though that's the question. Because it will need to have much higher scalings/base now that it's not a mastery but a rune.
No, it wouldn't. It would still be 'niche', because Tanks generally are shit right now, especially in Top.
Saezio2 votesSure, but back when CoC was a thing, mages didn't have such big HP pools. And we still had runes. So my question is if a CoC that is tuned to season 9 runes numbers would be just as abuseable by mages, with the change that it will become stronger with the HP they build, or bruisers like Darius riven etc
zeskgames2 votesWhat did COTC do again? I forgot [zombie-brand-facepalm]
we havent met2 votesIt gave a shield upon cc'ing a target. Primarily used by tanks only
zeskgames1 votesThank you comrade! [slayer-pantheon-thumbs]
Sir Saltarin2 votesYeah please
Bob the Toastr2 votesWow, going back to look at it really makes me miss the old runes and masteries.
Infernape2 votes[{quoted}](name=Bob the Toastr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ygWWKwq8,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-06-11T07:55:28.204+0000)
Wow, going back to look at it really makes me miss the old runes and masteries.
I still do. I personally thought Riot had the old mastery system balanced out by the time Runes Reforged came along (god I still remember that patch where Riot nerfed every single damaging rune because they felt they were adding too much damage to the game).
They could've got away with removing the old runes and keeping the mastery system by doing what they did when Runes Reforged came out by buffing the base stats and scalings of champions that usually took things like armour/AD/AS/AP seals, quintessences and glyphs etc.
TheÐarkMagician2 votesI don't know why riot focus so hard on changing runes/keysyones when they could simply add them.
If we had 4/5 keystones/runes per rune tree it would alow for more diversity and clearer nerfs.
After shock is good on any champ that can proc it. Sylas, pyke, kench, lux... It needs nerfing and a new option for tanks looking to tank.
XJ999999999999991 votesTrue. I used to use the old grasp for damage and healing over courage of the colossus on tank junglers like Tahm/Zac.
Aftershock is too good though to pass up in this heavy damage meta though so you sort've need to take it and it deals good damage as well.
Ragnaveil3 votesI mean, buying a good chunk of resists and having Aftershock is actually a detriment when in the face of % pen. You just let the enemy ignore more resists and deal more damage than if you just had the resists and no aftershock.
Dracocrash1 votesCoTC had many problems, which is why it wasn't brought back. Replacing one problem with another is not a solution, unfortunately. I would much rather riot try to work towards a new keystone.
TheSingularity2 votesCare to elaborate? During its existence I was unaware of any glaring issues with it. Curios
Critmaster Garen1 votesthis might be even worse.
the problem with aftershock is that some champions like certain mages abuse it to to trade with their opponent and make it ridiculously hard to trade back against them at the same time.
like it becomes impossible to fight back against a 
with zonyas.
courage of the colossus is almost the same mechanic, except that it grants a shield instead of increased resistances.
this means if you trade into a mage with aftershock youre dealing massively reduced damage to him. but trading into a mage with a beefed up courage of the colossus (remember that runes are stronger than masteries were), means they could potentially absorb your damage entirely.
I memba balance 5 votesExcept Courage of the Colossus had a shit shield in 1v1 scenarios. And it also scaled off either your maximum or bonus HP. So squishy mages that don't build hardly any bonus HP would have a shitty shield that doesn't do anything for laning. CotC was great for tanks that CC'ed into a teamfight and were around 5 enemies. THEN, the shield was big. But once again, it didn't grant any bonus resistances and you had to have a good sized health pool while also diving into an enemy team. It provided zero damage as well. Much more healthy than Aftershock and you won't have stupid fucking mages/battle mages ruining it for tanks.
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=I memba balance ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ygWWKwq8,comment-id=001f0000,timestamp=2019-06-11T10:38:13.861+0000)
Except Courage of the Colossus had a shit shield in 1v1 scenarios. And it also scaled off either your maximum or bonus HP. So squishy mages that don't build hardly any bonus HP would have a shitty shield that doesn't do anything for laning. CotC was great for tanks that CC'ed into a teamfight and were around 5 enemies. THEN, the shield was big. But once again, it didn't grant any bonus resistances and you had to have a good sized health pool while also diving into an enemy team. It provided zero damage as well. Much more healthy than Aftershock and you won't have stupid fucking mages/battle mages ruining it for tanks.
true, but magees also have a lot of access to hp now.
manolis2011 votesDont think Rito will hear you they dont care for anyone in the boards.
Failog2 votesThats because they are 3rd rate developer posing as a top tier developer. They are a garbage company.
