Top lane is shrinking to range tops and the fighters/tanks who can deal with them

Moody P·Mar 7, 2019·116 votes·26,124 views

And the fighters who can't generally have nowhere else to go.

And by tanks I mean Sion.

This is what happens when you design a bunch of melee characters to sit in a vacuum with other melee characters and then let ranged champs dumpster lane + outscale for almost no effort.

The only fighters who are worth picking, especially blind picking, are the fighters who stand a chance against BS like Kennen, Jayce, and Vlad. And now Neeko is going top with some dumb on hit build (Neeko has higher winrates every lane except mid this patch, lol) and cheesing fighters with her high damage and natural kiting.

When is this going to end? How many ranged champions have to shit up top lane season after season before we look at fixing a clearly systemic issue between melee tops and ranged champs?

197 Comments

nelogisMar 7, 201983 votes

It's top lane doooouuuude

Those are new and exciting playstyles! We can't just throw new and exciting playstyles out of the window!

"Heimerdinger is played bot"

WHAT THE HELL IS HEIMER DOING BOT GO F- YOURSELF AND GET YOUR ULT DAMAGE CUT IN HALF!!

Viktor top? I think that is a really interesting approach to counter existing top champs, we should look forward to keeping it viable. So unique!

"Aatrox is played mid"

YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE TOP, DO YOU WANT TO GET GUTTED HUH?! IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?!

On-Hit Neeko top oh my now that is exotic! I'm excited to see how it turns out!

Dude just give up, top has been a shit-lane this past year. Just a dumping ground for champs that have nowhere else to go. A barrage of mages / ranged cheese that are here just to fuck over the top roster.

But it's top lane so nobody gives a shit Just imagine Malzahar being good in mid, doing nothing but make the lane boring and cancer. Instantly nerfed right there.

I bet if he did it in top it would be considered a unique pick, worth preserving

We got lucky that they removed the frostmancy cancer, I thought they would keep it in the game and balance top around it.

Moody PMar 7, 201944 votes

Don't forget getting farmed by Klepto Kennen so even if he has shit CSing he'll pull ahead on gold anyway, finish his dirt cheap power spikes while you work on a 3000-3800 gold item and then 100-0 you after Protobelt

3TWarriorMar 7, 201913 votes

klepto is a mistake in general. it gives EVERY ranged champion an advantage in EVERY lane

there was a thing lately where riot changed how Spell-thief worked (again...) because someone could run spellthief and klepto and farm more than a dedicated farmer...

and yet it was klepto that was the issue. random 12 - 120 gold is not okay

Gear5LuffyMar 8, 20191 votes

it should give rewards based on champs that are melee and ranged give normal for ranged and less rewards for melee

3TWarriorMar 8, 20192 votes

You worded this improperly. You meant if targeting a melee champion, the reward given is less and if targeting a ranged champion, the reward given is the same

this kind of makes it not very optimal for melee champions to take though as their primary matchups are against other melee champions

Serge THE GREATMar 7, 201910 votes

{quoted}

It's top lane doooouuuude

Those are new and exciting playstyles! We can't just throw new and exciting playstyles out of the window!

"Heimerdinger is played bot"

WHAT THE HELL IS HEIMER DOING BOT GO F- YOURSELF AND GET YOUR ULT DAMAGE CUT IN HALF!!

Viktor top? I think that is a really interesting approach to counter existing top champs, we should look forward to keeping it viable. So unique!

"Aatrox is played mid"

YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE TOP, DO YOU WANT TO GET GUTTED HUH?! IS THAT WHAT YOU WANT?!

On-Hit Neeko top oh my now that is exotic! I'm excited to see how it turns out!

Dude just give up, top has been a shit-lane this past year. Just a dumping ground for champs that have nowhere else to go. A barrage of mages / ranged cheese that are here just to fuck over the top roster.

But it's top lane so nobody gives a shit Just imagine Malzahar being good in mid, doing nothing but make the lane boring and cancer. Instantly nerfed right there.

I bet if he did it in top it would be considered a unique pick, worth preserving

We got lucky that they removed the frostmancy cancer, I thought they would keep it in the game and balance top around it.

Top has been shit for YEARS. Not just this year. Ranged bullies have only been getting more prevalent.

SaevumMar 7, 201932 votes

So Neeko is getting struggles on mid lane so she decides to cheese top? where have we seen that exciting playstyle before?

InfernapeMar 7, 201932 votes

Viktor No idea mate.

Death by GlamourMar 7, 201927 votes

Pfft

Kennen Ryze Vladimir

All migrated top long before tank viktor was a thing

SaevumMar 7, 20191 votes

'An Americal Tail' vibes.

CrystaIIineFIaskMar 7, 20192 votes

The top lane dream

Sir SaltarinMar 7, 20191 votes

Honest question, did Kennen go to Top from Mid or was he played there since the begining?

Moody PMar 7, 201912 votes

He used to be played ADC actually (it was like on hit AD build not crit of I remember right) and that saw pro play even. Never recalled a time when he was primary mid.

Sir SaltarinMar 7, 20192 votes

He used to be played ADC actually (it was like on hit AD build not crit of I remember right)

Like, on S1 ?

Because if it's not on elder seasons I only remember Rekkles pulling out the Kennen adc.

SaevumMar 7, 20193 votes

There was a time when Sona went mid and top.

Why don't you ask that one?

Sir SaltarinMar 7, 20191 votes

They were talking about Mages that didn't performed well other places at some point as Viktor some months ago or Neeko currently that MIGRATED to Toplane and they said that Kennen was one of them.

So I asked if Kennen actually migrated to toplane or if he was there since the begining.

Why would I talk about a Soraka that doesn't even exist anymore?

SaevumMar 7, 20192 votes

Exactly.

Why are the others special?

Sir SaltarinMar 7, 20191 votes

Ask them that are the ones who complain about ranged toplaners.

SaevumMar 7, 20192 votes

r00d

Death by GlamourMar 7, 20192 votes

There really wasnt a meta in s1

You picked a champ and a lane and just went. Wasnt really until season 2 that the "American" meta top tanky mage mid jungler adc and supp bot began to take hold

Moody PMar 7, 20198 votes

I thought that meta was from Europe?

Death by GlamourMar 7, 20191 votes

Always thought it was american but either or s1 was still take aby champ you want to any lane bar jungle which was fiddle ww dominated

Sir SaltarinMar 7, 20197 votes

Nop, it was EU pro players the ones who realized that playing with a marksman on bot was the right way to play League of Legends.

Sir SaltarinMar 7, 20191 votes

So, I ask again.

Can we say that Kennedy MIGRATED to Toplane from other lane at all ?

(And it was EU)

Madsin25Mar 7, 20192 votes

He has been played primarily top since I have started in s5.

However hardcore kennen mains actually prefer midlane as it is much easier to burst the squishys.

OtterlyLostMar 7, 201915 votes

Shrinking. Yet of the highest picked top laners, only two are ranged and the rest are melee fighters/bruisers. Jayce, riven, vlad, irelia, sylas, renekton, Darius, jax, yorick, and Fiora.

Two are ranged. The others are melees who fall into the bruiser category and none of them are tanks. This is according to Op.gg but I'm sure the story is the same at other websites too.

Bruisers are fine. They have been fine for over a season now. Bruiser mains are just upset that their rune(which was the best one in the game and only useable by AD melee champions such as themselves) is finally getting nerfed and put into proper balance. They still have the best items with the most build diversity and despite being "melee" many of them scale harder and better than any ADC while still having ostentatiously better early games.

Iota ThetaMar 7, 20196 votes

{quoted}

Shrinking. Yet of the highest picked top laners, only two are ranged and the rest are melee fighters/bruisers. Jayce, riven, vlad, irelia, sylas, renekton, Darius, jax, yorick, and Fiora.

Two are ranged. The others are melees who fall into the bruiser category and none of them are tanks. This is according to Op.gg but I'm sure the story is the same at other websites too.

Bruisers are fine. They have been fine for over a season now. Bruiser mains are just upset that their rune(which was the best one in the game and only useable by AD melee champions such as themselves) is finally getting nerfed and put into proper balance. They still have the best items with the most build diversity and despite being "melee" many of them scale harder and better than any ADC while still having ostentatiously better early games.

Just to provide more stats to discuss, not taking a stance here, lolalytics, plat+, sorted by pickrate: Riven, Jax, Irelia (sub 50 WR), Darius, Renekton, Yorick, Jayce, Nasus, Sylas, Vlad, Fiora (sub 50 WR), Kennen, Kled, Yasuo, Malphite, Sion. https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/home/

Edit: disclaimer, it says 9.5 but pulled from the last 7 days, so some likely is still 9.4 since we’re only on day 2 of 9.5. Data could easily shift as days go on.

OtterlyLostMar 7, 20194 votes

Thank you for more information. :) It saves a lot of people time looking it up.

BEK MakadurMar 7, 20197 votes

When you Talk about Bruisers, that is more than 1 category of champs. Overall they are "fine" but most of them are not. Let´s start with the obvious ones.

Aatrox, Urgot(now he´s shit), Trunde, Tryndamere, GP, Fiora, Irelia, Renekton, Yasuo, Olaf, Rengar, Darius, are all under 49% WR and most of them have a really low Play rate.

Conqueror was fine on most champs, it only made very few champs to strong. And they could have gotten compensation nerfs.

Now conqu is shit for everyone who can´t instantly stack it.

Also ofc "Bruisers" should be able to 1v1 an ADC unless they get outplayed hard or it´s a counter. ADCs are meant to deal huge amount of dmg from distance while being very squishy. That´s why they lane with a support.

And about items, if you talk about bruisers as i said that is more than 1 category of champs. Depending on what you believe is a bruiser, you could argue that even Dr. Mundo is a bruiser. Or volibear.

How doesn tryn i.e. have a bigger item diversity than any adc?

Iota ThetaMar 7, 201915 votes

{quoted}

When you Talk about Bruisers, that is more than 1 category of champs. Overall they are "fine" but most of them are not. Let´s start with the obvious ones.

Aatrox, Urgot(now he´s shit), Trunde, Tryndamere, GP, Fiora, Irelia, Renekton, Yasuo, Olaf, Rengar, Darius, are all under 49% WR and most of them have a really low Play rate.

Umm, what? A number of those are wrong.

Darius: 51.2% win, 9.5% pick https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Darius/

Renekton: 50.9% winrate, 9.6% pick https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Renekton/

Olaf: 50.5% win, 5.8% pick https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Olaf/

Wait, you really are using Yasuo to support your claim? 50.1% win, 16.7% pick https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Yasuo/

Rengar too? He’s current an assassin. 51.1% win, 7.1% pick https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Rengar/

Did you just..throw out names without actually checking their stats or classes? Almost half of your list was incorrect.

BEK MakadurMar 7, 20193 votes

Welcome to the league of different Statistics. Different Sites different Stats.

Iota ThetaMar 7, 20196 votes

{quoted}

Welcome to the league of different Statistics. Different Sites different Stats.

Maybe you should...idk..post where you are apparently getting your statistics if you are getting some champs at low playrates but the rest us are finding them in the 5-9% pick range and above 50% winrate? That way we can actually see why there’s such a discrepancy. Otherwise with no proof to back your claim, you sound like you’re just making stats up.

BEK MakadurMar 7, 20192 votes

https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Top

Iota ThetaMar 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

https://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend&roleSort=Top

Isn’t champion.gg the one that studies only Korean players?

BEK MakadurMar 7, 20192 votes

What stats do you use? Champion.gg uses game data from Platinum to Challenger from all Regions for the current patch, available through Riot's API

Iota ThetaMar 7, 20191 votes

{quoted}

What stats do you use? Champion.gg uses game data from Platinum to Challenger from all Regions for the current patch, available through Riot's API

I linked my source to you as I countered your stats. Lolalytics. There’s a clear issue in the number analyzed, champion.gg saying 2.5 million champions analyzed, and lolalytics saying 8.4 million champs

BEK MakadurMar 7, 20192 votes

Problem is, we don´t know which one is more accurate.

But seeing that Fogged is in Diamon with Tryn, let´s me doubt the lolalytics stats.

Edit: The 8.4 Million is the last 7 Days, that includes some 9.4. Still doesn´t seem accurate.

InfernapeMar 7, 20193 votes

No that's op.gg

SaevumMar 7, 20192 votes

Urgot and GP are not Brusiers.

Sir SaltarinMar 7, 20192 votes

They can be bruisers because bruiser is a really vague term

SaevumMar 7, 20192 votes

You can't be serious.

First and foremost, Urgot is a beefy ranged that usually shits on most melees. Or used to. Not sure if he is going to remain able to do so. From that point, he cannot by any means be considered brusier. Even if he engages as a front line.

It's like trying to say that Viktor is a Brusier cause he was able to sacrifice dps for suvivability against other brusiers top. Urgot is not a Brusier

And then, you listed GP as a brusier cause the procs trinity and his passive with autos AFTER he chunks most of the melee match ups he has due to his barrels. You don't need to engage with GP starting with your Autos so that also your kit can have a follow up close. No, no, you use first, your ranged abilities to siege a target and then squeze the last drop of health that they have. GP is not a Brusier.

OtterlyLostMar 7, 20193 votes

Could have sworn that Urgot was a juggernaut. .-. Pretty sure that's what he was released as.

https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/champion/urgot/

He is also listed as a fighter, which is another term for bruiser. Pretty sure his subclass is Juggernaut with Fighter/Bruiser being the over arching class.

3TWarriorMar 7, 20192 votes

GP is technically a bruiser (due to lots of burst damage) but he also doesn't know what he is when he's a fighter and a zoning mage at the same time

SaevumMar 7, 20197 votes

The amount of punishment GP is able to handle is really low, thus why he has his own built-in QSS. He is not a brusier.

Moody PMar 7, 20198 votes

Nobody cares about low elo pick rates. Meta trickles down in ELO and it'll be a month (of we're generous) before lower ranked players adapt to what high elo has already started swapping to.

Most of these are fighters who can deal with ranged champions, so my point kind of remains. Bruiser pick % for champions like Darius shrink greatly the higher you sort for. Vladimir, and Jayce maintain higher ban rates the higher you sort for for everybody you've listed except for sylas, Yorick, Riven and Jax. 5 bruisers being good out of the entire class (which is the largest group of champions) is nothing impressive. Neeko will take time to spike in ban but if her new performance holds up expect it to rise. Kennen is the only anomaly here. Overall ranged champions have steadily increased in presence by patch.

Maybe I could use that ADC excuse last season of "well, we don't want to change our picks;" seeing as how all non bot laners never once had a pick rate higher than the average ADC and the game at almost every level except for high elo was 99% ADC anyway, but it was apparently such a disaster for marksmen worldwide and your champions were absolutely unplayable despite... still maintaining better performances in every way except for ban rates outside of Swain at his peak.

Everything else you've said is wrong. Conqueror got hotfixed the first time because it made a handful of ADCs jump to ridiculous performances. Its a good rune for less than 10 fighters and dog shit on everyone else, which is half the reason some fighters are doing much better than the rest of them to begin with; and now the rune is even weaker. Neat.

Sir SaltarinMar 7, 20194 votes

way except for ban rates outside of Swain at his peak.

That's just not true, neither in the past since Heimer or Cassio have been great on botlane or right now if you check Yauso bot.

Moody PMar 7, 20194 votes

I don't think I understand what you're saying, can you rephrase

Sir SaltarinMar 7, 20197 votes

Okay, first what I understood from that part of your comment:

Except from peak Swain bot, non botlane adc have never been better on any metric than adcs

Which is what I call to be bs since Cassio bot was op 2 patchs ago, Heimer was also op there months ago and Yauso 9.3 was on a point where pro teams had to pick Darius bot to counter him.

So, saying that adcs have had better performances in every way than non adcs botlanes (except peak Swain) is false.

OtterlyLostMar 7, 20199 votes

Low Elo? I pulled my information from Op.GG. Those are Plat + Stats.

I literally stated my source for you to look at.

https://na.op.gg/champion/statistics And it literally states that they're from Plat and higher ranked games.

The top 10 pick rates for top lane currently are 80% melee, 20% ranged. You're complaining about a nonexistent issue.

As for Conqueror, the previous iteration of it, the one we had for nearly all of season 8, was only specialized for bruisers and was the best keystone and was useable on AD bruisers only for the most part. Draven was the only ranged champion I could think of that took it regularly and that's because Draven could take any keystone and still out put insane damage. Bruisers literally ruled and owned the entirety of Season 8. Notice how it was the worst season in recent history?

And no, Conqueror was not nerfed for any ranged champion other than maybe Urgot. I never saw it in my games and every champion I looked up that was ranged preferred their original keystones before Conqueror's rework. I do know that both Urgot and Yorick were extremely out of control and are getting just deserved nerfs and changes.

As for Aatrox, he literally was dominating 3 lanes(Top, jungle, and mid) ever since his rework. Irelia was in a similar state. You're seriously complaining that these two over tuned monstrosities were finally nerfed after they harassed and dominated soloqueue for months after their reworks?

But yeah, sure, keep up your bias that Bruisers are "so weaaaak" when they really aren't. They're fine.

HàrrowRMar 7, 20194 votes

{quoted}

Shrinking. Yet of the highest picked top laners, only two are ranged and the rest are melee fighters/bruisers. Jayce, riven, vlad, irelia, sylas, renekton, Darius, jax, yorick, and Fiora.

Two are ranged. The others are melees who fall into the bruiser category and none of them are tanks. This is according to Op.gg but I'm sure the story is the same at other websites too.

Bruisers are fine. They have been fine for over a season now. Bruiser mains are just upset that their rune(which was the best one in the game and only useable by AD melee champions such as themselves) is finally getting nerfed and put into proper balance. They still have the best items with the most build diversity and despite being "melee" many of them scale harder and better than any ADC while still having ostentatiously better early games.

How dare you say this, dont you know an adc can kill a fiora in two shots while standing still, I mean I havent seen it myself but a guy on the boards tried to convince me of it two days ago so I guess its true