I'm tired of these supports who refuse to get a SS.

JavelinJoe·Jul 15, 2016·35 votes·2,714 views

YELLOW AND BLUE TRINKETS DO NOT CUT IT FOR VISION. Get that through your head.

A support needs a SightStone. There is literally no excuse not to get one. All the items it can build into are pretty good. Also as a support, you do not want to ks your other laners. So going full damage is not ideal. RIOT even agrees with that. Supports are meant to get assists. So you can live with the 1 less main damage item and get a SightStone.

In case you are unaware of all the possible versions of Sightstones, here is a list. Pick one:

You even have gold income built into 3 of those options.

95 Comments

archerno1Jul 15, 201612 votes

Anyone can get ss, its not support item . its team item. And its no problem if supports get kills.

JavelinJoeJul 15, 201610 votes

yes anyone can physically get one.
It is a support item 100%
It is a team item which the support provides for the team. Just like how the jungler provides the smite or the ADC provides the ranged AD damage. Every role has their contribution to the team. supports have most of the vision as a part of theirs by getting a Sightstone.
While not entirely bad, it is always better to let the ADC, MID. TOP or JG get the kills since they tend to carry games way more often than the support.

BeldairJul 15, 201616 votes

Vision is a Team game... Yes supports have 3 vision support items but everyone else is also required to ward..

Nothing pisses me off to see an ADC, top, or mid later all have wards but never use it and get caught by the enemy jungles.

archerno1Jul 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

yes anyone can physically get one.

It is a support item 100%

It is a team item which the support provides for the team. Just like how the jungler provides the smite or the ADC provides the ranged AD damage. Every role has their contribution to the team supports have most of the vision as a part of theirs by getting a Sightstone.

While not entirely bad, it is always better to let the ADC, MID. TOP or JG get the kills since they tend to carry games way more often than the support.

U are describing LCS and high ELO. Yes Sightstone is an amazing item, but its POINTLESS to get it if you dont know how to use it efficiently and its a waste of gold if you dont remember to use it. And not just Sightstone, all active items like item 3190 item 3222 item 3401 ... Its more beneficial for team if u get offensive items and do damage (Cause u will always remember to do damage) than to invest all your gold into utility items and not use it. And no, its not always better to let others get kills. Especially if u DO plan to invest in utility items. More kills= more gold= faster utility items= better for team.

DrinkMoreWhiskeyAug 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

U are describing LCS and high ELO. Yes Sightstone is an amazing item, but its POINTLESS to get it if you dont know how to use it efficiently and its a waste of gold if you dont remember to use it. And not just Sightstone, all active items like ... Its more beneficial for team if u get offensive items and do damage (Cause u will always remember to do damage) than to invest all your gold into utility items and not use it. And no, its not always better to let others get kills. Especially if u DO plan to invest in utility items. More kills= more gold= faster utility items= better for team.

If I see a support with no sight stone it's basically a gank me sign on their back. Pair that with most people that are rushing AP play aggressive as hell. Now how exactly do you think that will end well once laners learn to not die and wait for ganks.

Honestly one death due to lack of vision control alone and you're miles behind the gold / pressure skipping sight stone gained you in dueling.

Now add how much easier it is for your jungler to jungle just having wards on the map to see where their jungle is. I really don't get how people don't understand even if you win lane not having Vision is like the definition of how you lose games that should be wins.

Ahri Body PillowJul 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Anyone can get ss, its not support item . its team item. And its no problem if supports get kills.

yeah, its true anyone can get it. HOWEVER, supports' kits are overloaded with utility, making them less dependent on items to do their job and protect their carry. Carries/Tanks need those items to do their jobs. The sightstone is just taking up precious inventory spaces on anyone who is not a support.

PartholonianJul 15, 20164 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ahri Body Pillow,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ygHt1tmo,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-07-15T20:50:21.176+0000)

yeah, its true anyone can get it. HOWEVER, supports' kits are overloaded with utility, making them less dependent on items to do their job and protect their carry.

That USED to be true... before utility items were introduced. item 3504 item 3174 item 3060 item 3190 item 3222 item 3050 item 3512 for example make inventory space just as precious to supports as to any other role.

That's why vision taking up regular inventory space should be abolished, and replaced with more things like trinkets that have their own tradeoffs that aren't mixed with real items. Then this thread wouldn't have to exist.

As the game stands, the OP is correct, but the players who rebel against the mandatory sightstone meta aren't doing so for no reason; they're doing it because other options are more fun. Riot shouldn't force them to choose between fun and effective.

JavelinJoeJul 16, 20161 votes

item 2045 reduces all those utility items' active cds by 20%

RogueWillJul 15, 201610 votes

Rushing a sight stone is such a bad idea, specially in match with randoms. It literally offers nothing that can't be obtained by playing smart on early game.

When I play support is usually my 3rd or 4th item. After upgrading my boots to second tier, my support item to second tier, get an actual tank item/ or utility item or at least a needless long rod if I'm a mage support. There is no reason to get it before mid game unless you are against a team 5 or some other variation of that which will come up with more complex and coordinated plays.

Mage supports are even less discouraged to get one early since they depend on raw damage to being able to help on lane. A mage support which is behind is far beyond useless so a damage item first is better for it. If you are struggling for vision just get a pink yourself as adc and you should be fine with both yellow trinkets and your support pink as long as you coordinate who and when go to ward. Honestly investing 2 cs of your income into a pink won't delay your B.f Sword or your Ghostblade or whatever item ADC rush this day.

Swiftstrike4Jul 15, 20166 votes

{quoted}

Rushing a sight stone is such a bad idea, specially in match with randoms. It literally offers nothing that can't be obtained by playing smart on early game.

When I play support is usually my 3rd or 4th item. After upgrading my boots to second tier, my support item to second tier, get an actual tank item/ or utility item or at least a needless long rod if I'm a mage support. There is no reason to get it before mid game unless you are against a team 5 or some other variation of that which will come up with more complex and coordinated plays.

Mage supports are even less discouraged to get one early since they depend on raw damage to being able to help on lane. A mage support which is behind is far beyond useless so a damage item first is better for it. If you are struggling for vision just get a pink yourself as adc and you should be fine with both yellow trinkets and your support pink as long as you coordinate who and when go to ward. Honestly investing 2 cs of your income into a pink won't delay your B.f Sword or your Ghostblade or whatever item ADC rush this day.

Mage supports are less encouraged to build one early because it provides very little to benefit THEIR kit. But if you are behind as a damage support the rationale should be, "I don't do damage I should provide vision" instead of "I need to build damage to be relevant."

It is quite simple, bad supports do not build sightstone early while good supports do.

I am not saying it needs to be your first item on your first back. But on your second back you need to have it.

Vision is incredibly important for the bottom lane specifically.

I will say that supports get a lot of flack for A LOT of different things unrelated to their play. Support is my secondary role and when my ADC is losing lane or doing poorly they typically blame ME for virtually everything.

This mostly occurs in normals and happens less frequenstly in ranked. Most ADC mains understand when the support is at fault or not, but in normals I am usually supporting someone that is not an ADC main or is new to the champion.

I also have the policy that if the ADC is being highly abusive to me or unreasonable I go to another lane. It is pretty simple and I typically give them one warning that if they continue acting like a jerk I will leave. Almost always they just tell me to "fuck off" after the warning and I go mid or top.

This mostly occurs in normals. I feel like in Gold and higher in ranked games most ADCs do not behave this way.

RogueWillJul 15, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Mage supports are less encouraged to build one early because it provides very little to benefit THEIR kit. But if you are behind as a damage support the rationale should be, "I don't do damage I should provide vision" instead of "I need to build damage to be relevant."

It is quite simple, bad supports do not build sightstone early while good supports do.

I am not saying it needs to be your first item on your first back. But on your second back you need to have it.

Vision is incredibly important for the bottom lane specifically.

I will say that supports get a lot of flack for A LOT of different things unrelated to their play. Support is my secondary role and when my ADC is losing lane or doing poorly they typically blame ME for virtually everything.

This mostly occurs in normals and happens less frequenstly in ranked. Most ADC mains understand when the support is at fault or not, but in normals I am usually supporting someone that is not an ADC main or is new to the champion.

I also have the policy that if the ADC is being highly abusive to me or unreasonable I go to another lane. It is pretty simple and I typically give them one warning that if they continue acting like a jerk I will leave. Almost always they just tell me to "fuck off" after the warning and I go mid or top.

This mostly occurs in normals. I feel like in Gold and higher in ranked games most ADCs do not behave this way.

I'm guessing this is gold at most. Vision is not that important early game since everyone have limited resources to work with so by knowing when you are the most vulnerable you can avoid most if not all the dangerous situation altogether instead of relying on seeing the threat walk to you before you start doing something about it. That's reacting to danger and not really preventing it.

Rushing a sighstone early is pretty much forfeiting the lane and accepting is a lost lane, so you try the difference to be less significant but you can forget about wining it. I won't go into detail of what item to rush on each match up with ADC and supports because that will take too long and a lot of experience to determine but there is really not many cases with rushing a SS is the right choice since it doesn't let you push your advantage or decrease the advantage that already is against you. Again having one ward per player plus 2 pinks will give you 4 wards at any time, the CD for it is 1 min (the time where no ward is available besides the 2 pink, it scales on level ), if you go for 3 wards instead of 4 then you have no CD. 3 wards means one behind you, one in river and one deep ward... that's plenty of vision considering your jungler should provide some extra vision as well so besides the HP (150) that is providing is not giving me anything extra, the 800g is better spent on a kindlegem if you desperately need the HP than on a SS.

Again, Sightstone is a mid game item unless you are on a coordinated environment (like a tourney), if people aren't on a voice call and haven't played together before the utility that SS provide is wasted.

Swiftstrike4Jul 15, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I'm guessing this is gold at most. Vision is not that important early game since everyone have limited resources to work with so by knowing when you are the most vulnerable you can avoid most if not all the dangerous situation altogether instead of relying on seeing the threat walk to you before you start doing something about it. That's reacting to danger and not really preventing it.

Rushing a sighstone early is pretty much forfeiting the lane and accepting is a lost lane, so you try the difference to be less significant but you can forget about wining it. I won't go into detail of what item to rush on each match up with ADC and supports because that will take too long and a lot of experience to determine but there is really not many cases with rushing a SS is the right choice since it doesn't let you push your advantage or decrease the advantage that already is against you. Again having one ward per player plus 2 pinks will give you 4 wards at any time, the CD for it is 1 min (the time where no ward is available besides the 2 pink, it scales on level ), if you go for 3 wards instead of 4 then you have no CD. 3 wards means one behind you, one in river and one deep ward... that's plenty of vision considering your jungler should provide some extra vision as well so besides the HP (150) that is providing is not giving me anything extra, the 800g is better spent on a kindlegem if you desperately need the HP than on a SS.

Again, Sightstone is a mid game item unless you are on a coordinated environment (like a tourney), if people aren't on a voice call and haven't played together before the utility that SS provide is wasted.

You are very far off about your perception of when sightstone is important. I will provide more detail as to why sightstone is important and if you want to practice good habits and improve as a support you should ALWAYS build sightstone by your second back, if not your first.

Sightstone is incredibly useful because by placing additional wards it also provide potential opportunities for your team. It is not simply about providing vision of threats. A lot of silver and bronze players do not place wards in good spots or understand the importance of early warding and see it ONLY as a means to notify teammates of threats.

The additional 3 wards plus a sweeper enhances bottom lane/jungle vision for early opportunities. An early sweeper also LIMITS enemy vision which provides greater success for a gank.

If you have early vision and you know the enemy jungler is topside you can take a dragon as long as you know where the other opponents are. You can help your jungler steal a blue buff. Deep wards also allow your jungler or midlaner to counter-gank. Deep wards also allow for Top lane teleport ganks. If your trinket is on cooldown and your pink is already placed your chances for such opportunities are limited.

Early vision provides players more time to react to enemy actions and allow you to figure out if places you did ward is safe to re-ward.

Pink wards and the trinket do not allow you to place the necessary wards on the map to open such opportunities, or rather, they make these opportunities more difficult. You are also under the assumption that everyone lays wards, which they don't, but you limit your warding at the time to the trinket timer. Sometimes you need a ward at that very moment and cannot wait for the trinket to recharge.

Establishing a "ward line" of where it is safe to ward and not ward, is also incredibly important. The earlier you do this the more map control you have. You as a support should not die when warding. Your mid laner should not die when roaming and your jungler should be able to safely do camps on the bottom half of the map without concern of an invade.

Earlier warding also leaves spots where it is safely to walk and re-ward to maintain the line.

The ward line typically moves away from your base the further ahead you are while it shrinks toward your base when you are behind.

If you get your sightstone later the ward line gets established later. The later you establish the ward line the less map control you have. If you are already losing or behind you will not be able to ward very far from you base safely.

By this time getting sightstone is too late and you forgo potential opportunities and map control without it.

If you want to get better as a support, then you need to understand that playing the role is not just about winning lane and putting pressure in the bottom lane through damage items.

Support is about opening opportunities to give your team the best chance to win. By delaying your completion of sightstone you limit your team's opportunities and early map control.

You taking the additional damage for limited vision is NOT a good trade off going into the mid-game, especially if you are LOSING in the bottom lane. Or your other lanes are losing.

RogueWillJul 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You are very far off about your perception of when sightstone is important. I will provide more detail as to why sightstone is important and if you want to practice good habits and improve as a support you should ALWAYS build sightstone by your second back, if not your first.

Sightstone is incredibly useful because by placing additional wards it also provide potential opportunities for your team. It is not simply about providing vision of threats. A lot of silver and bronze players do not place wards in good spots or understand the importance of early warding and see it ONLY as a means to notify teammates of threats.

The additional 3 wards plus a sweeper enhances bottom lane/jungle vision for early opportunities. An early sweeper also LIMITS enemy vision which provides greater success for a gank.

If you have early vision and you know the enemy jungler is topside you can take a dragon as long as you know where the other opponents are. You can help your jungler steal a blue buff. Deep wards also allow your jungler or midlaner to counter-gank. Deep wards also allow for Top lane teleport ganks. If your trinket is on cooldown and your pink is already placed your chances for such opportunities are limited.

Early vision provides players more time to react to enemy actions and allow you to figure out if places you did ward is safe to re-ward.

Pink wards and the trinket do not allow you to place the necessary wards on the map to open such opportunities, or rather, they make these opportunities more difficult. You are also under the assumption that everyone lays wards, which they don't, but you limit your warding at the time to the trinket timer. Sometimes you need a ward at that very moment and cannot wait for the trinket to recharge.

Establishing a "ward line" of where it is safe to ward and not ward, is also incredibly important. The earlier you do this the more map control you have. You as a support should not die when warding. Your mid laner should not die when roaming and your jungler should be able to safely do camps on the bottom half of the map without concern of an invade.

Earlier warding also leaves spots where it is safely to walk and re-ward to maintain the line.

The ward line typically moves away from your base the further ahead you are while it shrinks toward your base when you are behind.

If you get your sightstone later the ward line gets established later. The later you establish the ward line the less map control you have. If you are already losing or behind you will not be able to ward very far from you base safely.

By this time getting sightstone is too late and you forgo potential opportunities and map control without it.

If you want to get better as a support, then you need to understand that playing the role is not just about winning lane and putting pressure in the bottom lane through damage items.

Support is about opening opportunities to give your team the best chance to win. By delaying your completion of sightstone you limit your team's opportunities and early map control.

You taking the additional damage for limited vision is NOT a good trade off going into the mid-game, especially if you are LOSING in the bottom lane. Or your other lanes are losing.

You are having a lot of assumptions that contradict yourself in order to prove a point.

1st. Most likely I won't go an ward top lane to see that the enemy jungler is there so I can take dragon (unless bottom turret is down in which case is already mid game) so that is an example of early vision in general and not of why I should get a SS early. 2nd. I'm not saying you should go blind, like I said you have 3 wards on your bottom side of the map all the time and that is actually quite a lot of vision if you know proper placement and everyone else in your team is pitching for extra wards (mid top and jungler). If you are the only one providing the wards early game then the problem is not your lack of SS but the lack of people on your team providing vision, a SS on the support is only a band-aid if that's the case. 3rd. The sweepers. Pinks do essentially the same as sweepers. 4th. You mention that sometimes you need a ward and can't wait on the timer. The 60sec cooldown I mentioned with 4 wards is assuming you placed all 4 wards at the same time and is level 1, the effective CD is actually close to 30 sec so is rare when you don't have an extra ward available when you need it. Also by good management you can reduce this time even further, if you just saw jungler, mid and top on the minimap you know for sure it will take at least 10 sec for them to come to your lane (mid prob 5) so by delaying the replacement of the ward that just died you can reduce this CD even further. 5th. I'm assuming that everyone wards, vision this season is a team responsibility more than any other season so if no one else is warding there is no need for me to be warding either. 7th. Ward placement as I mentioned is 1 on river, 1 behind you and 1 deep ward, usually your yellow is what you want to be your deepward (assuming you have a lead on lane) if you are behind in lane then you want one in river and 2 wards behind you this time your yellow is your river ward. You can't really afford to go drop deepwards because you would risk the 3 or 4 man collapse on you. 8th. The map control vision early game is mostly a highly coordinated environment game, up until low plat players would rather stick to their lanes than roam a lot so smart wards are as effective as a huge amount of them. 9th. This is probably the more important, as support you can recall quite a number of times without real drawback early game to replace your pinks. The benefit of a SS is that you have more wards available, but since you still have the 3 ward cap then you can provide more wards without having to back that often.

Usually as support I get item 3301 / item 3302 / item 3092 then item 3096 / item 3097 / item 3098 + item 2043 x2 on my first back, if there is extra gold then I get item 1001 . Second back is item 3117 / item 3158 / item 3009 / item 3047 / item 3111 depending on what I need. Next is a second tier item (examples are item 3751 / item 3067 / item 1058 / item 3028 / item 3108 / item 1011 ) and then on my next back I decide if I should finish my item from the Part I previous bought or get a sighstone depending how late in teh game it is and how is the game playing.

Swiftstrike4Jul 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You are having a lot of assumptions that contradict yourself in order to prove a point.

1st. Most likely I won't go an ward top lane to see that the enemy jungler is there so I can take dragon (unless bottom turret is down in which case is already mid game) so that is an example of early vision in general and not of why I should get a SS early. 2nd. I'm not saying you should go blind, like I said you have 3 wards on your bottom side of the map all the time and that is actually quite a lot of vision if you know proper placement and everyone else in your team is pitching for extra wards (mid top and jungler). If you are the only one providing the wards early game then the problem is not your lack of SS but the lack of people on your team providing vision, a SS on the support is only a band-aid if that's the case. 3rd. The sweepers. Pinks do essentially the same as sweepers. 4th. You mention that sometimes you need a ward and can't wait on the timer. The 60sec cooldown I mentioned with 4 wards is assuming you placed all 4 wards at the same time and is level 1, the effective CD is actually close to 30 sec so is rare when you don't have an extra ward available when you need it. Also by good management you can reduce this time even further, if you just saw jungler, mid and top on the minimap you know for sure it will take at least 10 sec for them to come to your lane (mid prob 5) so by delaying the replacement of the ward that just died you can reduce this CD even further. 5th. I'm assuming that everyone wards, vision this season is a team responsibility more than any other season so if no one else is warding there is no need for me to be warding either. 7th. Ward placement as I mentioned is 1 on river, 1 behind you and 1 deep ward, usually your yellow is what you want to be your deepward (assuming you have a lead on lane) if you are behind in lane then you want one in river and 2 wards behind you this time your yellow is your river ward. You can't really afford to go drop deepwards because you would risk the 3 or 4 man collapse on you. 8th. The map control vision early game is mostly a highly coordinated environment game, up until low plat players would rather stick to their lanes than roam a lot so smart wards are as effective as a huge amount of them. 9th. This is probably the more important, as support you can recall quite a number of times without real drawback early game to replace your pinks. The benefit of a SS is that you have more wards available, but since you still have the 3 ward cap then you can provide more wards without having to back that often.

Usually as support I get / / then / / + x2 on my first back, if there is extra gold then I get . Second back is / / // depending on what I need. Next is a second tier item (examples are / / / / / ) and then on my next back I decide if I should finish my item from the Part I previous bought or get a sighstone depending how late in teh game it is and how is the game playing.

Your responses only try to justify you not actively taking sightstone. No one in upper Elo completely ignores sightstone AND the whole team provides wards anyways.

I think most of your points do no enhance your argument of not getting sightstone. Some of them are mostly lazy shortcuts for you to be "OK" with staying a remedial support.

I am not trying to argue with you, I am trying to help you get better as a player. This is advice, whether you think it is "good" or "bad" is your choice. I will address all your points, but I am done replying after this.

Your view as a support suggests you do not fully understand the role and I will guess you are probably in Silver or maybe Bronze. Meaning you are still learning how to play the game. I will say try the next several game building sightstone and see if that improves your win rate as a support. I am almost positive if you know where to ward you will at least win 1 or 2 more games in a sample of 10 than you normally do when supporting. Which is probably enough for you to move up a full division.

You should ward dragon, you are the support. Dragons lead to wins. The more dragons your team has the more likely (by a large margin) your chance for victory. You don't want the enemy jungler snagging the dragon without your knowing early. At low levels it is difficult to for the jungler to do the dragon by himself (taking aggro) just by you and your bot laner showing up you can contest the dragon and get them off it. Even if the enemy bot lane is helping the jungler, you can still contest the dragon with just the ADC and support. They may get the dragon but they will be low and you might be able to get kill. You need to control objectives, vision on the dragon early is controlling the objective, even if you don't get the dragon.
Vision only lasts so long. Even if EVERYONE buys a pink (which people don't)y ou can't drop 2 or 3 wards instantly unless you have 2 charges and a pink. That is a small window. Sightstone allows one to drop 3 wards to maintain a constant vision line. A vision line is extremely important and I cannot stress this enough. Maintaining a vision line probably separates decent supports from good supports. It is important to narrow the windows you DON'T have vision. Sightstone widens all your windows for vision.
No sweepers are not pink wards. This comparison does not hold weight at all. Sweepers are mobile ward removal, they do not provide vision like pinks and they do not cost gold. You can only place one pink per person on the map at a time. Placing a pink in a poor location is a waste of gold and vision just to remove a ward. You need the sweeper to remove multiple wards at a time or teemo shrooms or whatever else that is invisible, while also keeping the pink you already have placed on the map up.
This point makes no sense. You are basically talking about optimal warding based on cooldown. Which I will say, most players do not even think about this at all. But even you concede there is time when you CAN'T place a ward. Sightstone does not eliminate the inability to place a ward, but it does mitigate the time in which you cant place a ward.
Vision is a team responsibility. They should be warding too, but you as the support should be building upon that warding by building sightstone. Additional vision is never worse.
You have no point 6. You jump straight to seven.
This point about ward placement is correct in terms of the locations. But you don't seem to understand that by establishing early vision you can literally keep rewarding the same spot before the area becomes dangerous. You can only do this if YOU build a sightstone. If you have vision, you do not have to worry about 3/4 man collapsing on you because you maintain you wards and areas of safety. Sure sometimes you may ward in dangerous areas, but if you maintain vision throughout the game by re-warding then you limit you chances of warding in unsafe spots.
No, this is incorrect. Vision is extremely common in Gold and almost every support in mid-gold or higher builds a sightstone. You do not need to be in a coordinated environment to build sightstone. The supports that don't build sightstone in a ranked game typically have given up or are in silver or bronze. Supports that don't understand the importance of vision will stay in those divisions.
You actually have a 4 ward cap when you complete full item, which you can do on your 3rd back. You place 3 wards and hang on to the fourth ward if your team needs you to drop a ward. Plus if you decide to keep you trinket you have more and any additional pinks you hold. So the need to recall less than you would think.

Most of your points are very circumstantial to specific conditions to gameplay, but you really undervalue vision. As a support, you should prioritize vision.

RogueWillJul 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Your responses only try to justify you not actively taking sightstone. No one in upper Elo completely ignores sightstone AND the whole team provides wards anyways.

I think most of your points do no enhance your argument of not getting sightstone. Some of them are mostly lazy shortcuts for you to be "OK" with staying a remedial support.

I am not trying to argue with you, I am trying to help you get better as a player. This is advice, whether you think it is "good" or "bad" is your choice. I will address all your points, but I am done replying after this.

Your view as a support suggests you do not fully understand the role and I will guess you are probably in Silver or maybe Bronze. Meaning you are still learning how to play the game. I will say try the next several game building sightstone and see if that improves your win rate as a support. I am almost positive if you know where to ward you will at least win 1 or 2 more games in a sample of 10 than you normally do when supporting. Which is probably enough for you to move up a full division.

You should ward dragon, you are the support. Dragons lead to wins. The more dragons your team has the more likely (by a large margin) your chance for victory. You don't want the enemy jungler snagging the dragon without your knowing early. At low levels it is difficult to for the jungler to do the dragon by himself (taking aggro) just by you and your bot laner showing up you can contest the dragon and get them off it. Even if the enemy bot lane is helping the jungler, you can still contest the dragon with just the ADC and support. They may get the dragon but they will be low and you might be able to get kill. You need to control objectives, vision on the dragon early is controlling the objective, even if you don't get the dragon.

Vision only lasts so long. Even if EVERYONE buys a pink (which people don't)y ou can't drop 2 or 3 wards instantly unless you have 2 charges and a pink. That is a small window. Sightstone allows one to drop 3 wards to maintain a constant vision line. A vision line is extremely important and I cannot stress this enough. Maintaining a vision line probably separates decent supports from good supports. It is important to narrow the windows you DON'T have vision. Sightstone widens all your windows for vision.

No sweepers are not pink wards. This comparison does not hold weight at all. Sweepers are mobile ward removal, they do not provide vision like pinks and they do not cost gold. You can only place one pink per person on the map at a time. Placing a pink in a poor location is a waste of gold and vision just to remove a ward. You need the sweeper to remove multiple wards at a time or teemo shrooms or whatever else that is invisible, while also keeping the pink you already have placed on the map up.

This point makes no sense. You are basically talking about optimal warding based on cooldown. Which I will say, most players do not even think about this at all. But even you concede there is time when you CAN'T place a ward. Sightstone does not eliminate the inability to place a ward, but it does mitigate the time in which you cant place a ward.

Vision is a team responsibility. They should be warding too, but you as the support should be building upon that warding by building sightstone. Additional vision is never worse.

You have no point 6. You jump straight to seven.

This point about ward placement is correct in terms of the locations. But you don't seem to understand that by establishing early vision you can literally keep rewarding the same spot before the area becomes dangerous. You can only do this if YOU build a sightstone. If you have vision, you do not have to worry about 3/4 man collapsing on you because you maintain you wards and areas of safety. Sure sometimes you may ward in dangerous areas, but if you maintain vision throughout the game by re-warding then you limit you chances of warding in unsafe spots.

No, this is incorrect. Vision is extremely common in Gold and almost every support in mid-gold or higher builds a sightstone. You do not need to be in a coordinated environment to build sightstone. The supports that don't build sightstone in a ranked game typically have given up or are in silver or bronze. Supports that don't understand the importance of vision will stay in those divisions.

You actually have a 4 ward cap when you complete full item, which you can do on your 3rd back. You place 3 wards and hang on to the fourth ward if your team needs you to drop a ward. Plus if you decide to keep you trinket you have more and any additional pinks you hold. So the need to recall less than you would think.

Most of your points are very circumstantial to specific conditions to gameplay, but you really undervalue vision. As a support, you should prioritize vision.

2 things. I peaked at mid plat last season and second I said do not rush a sighstone, I never said do not get a sighstone at all. You are making it sound as if I said never get a sighstone.

and as PS some of the warding places that you mentioned belong to the jungler and not really to the support, which can and should run item 3711 to provide that early warding on important objectives and useful for counter-jungling. Only a handful of junglers should go for anything other than trackers, support can't move around the map early so their wards are static but I guess that's not conceivable for anyone below gold.

DrinkMoreWhiskeyJul 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I'm guessing this is gold at most. Vision is not that important early game since everyone have limited resources to work with so by knowing when you are the most vulnerable you can avoid most if not all the dangerous situation altogether instead of relying on seeing the threat walk to you before you start doing something about it. That's reacting to danger and not really preventing it.

Rushing a sighstone early is pretty much forfeiting the lane and accepting is a lost lane, so you try the difference to be less significant but you can forget about wining it. I won't go into detail of what item to rush on each match up with ADC and supports because that will take too long and a lot of experience to determine but there is really not many cases with rushing a SS is the right choice since it doesn't let you push your advantage or decrease the advantage that already is against you. Again having one ward per player plus 2 pinks will give you 4 wards at any time, the CD for it is 1 min (the time where no ward is available besides the 2 pink, it scales on level ), if you go for 3 wards instead of 4 then you have no CD. 3 wards means one behind you, one in river and one deep ward... that's plenty of vision considering your jungler should provide some extra vision as well so besides the HP (150) that is providing is not giving me anything extra, the 800g is better spent on a kindlegem if you desperately need the HP than on a SS.

Again, Sightstone is a mid game item unless you are on a coordinated environment (like a tourney), if people aren't on a voice call and haven't played together before the utility that SS provide is wasted.

And this is why you're silver

Unstoppable MonkJul 15, 20162 votes

{quoted}

And this is why you're silver

Eh, that meta is way different. Attempting to believe that your teammates will pay attention B5-S4 will result in disappointment.

RogueWillJul 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

And this is why you're silver

I actually peaked at Plat 3 last season and Plat 5 the season before that. This account was my smurf that I have refused to move out of silver so I can duo with my friends and confuse people when I'm in tourneys. It has been consistently either Silver 4 or 5 since season 3 and normally just go to gold on the pre-season/post-season so I can get placed back in silver after the placements.

redfeenixJul 15, 20169 votes

Supports aren't warding bots. Everyone should invest in vision, and please allow people to play their champs their way. It's their choice, they have the freedom to build whatever items they want.

JavelinJoeJul 16, 20162 votes

I get that it is important to allow some user freedom in build paths, it just is that some items are meant for certain roles/champions. You would never go full tank on a Jinx just like junglers have to take summoner 11 or they can not get jungle items to help clear camps. ALSO why do you think the role is called support? You are supporting your team, not carrying. And in this game, supporting does include vision control as a main feature, while on other roles it is more of a side job with trinkets or item 3711 .

bleufromageJul 15, 20167 votes

And I bet your the type of player who only buys one pink per game if any

bleufromageJul 15, 20166 votes

The funniest thing is every time I support and ward the fuck out of everything I still see adcs dying to a gank. Vision is useless if your team has poor awareness/reaction.

JavelinJoeJul 16, 20161 votes

buy a decent amount of pinks whenever I can (the current one was removed)

KingnewgameplusJul 16, 20162 votes

Tfw you buy I pink, place it, get another one, and nobody finds your first pink for 40 minutes.

JavelinJoeJul 16, 20161 votes

I try and keep them in useful areas, and rarely do they last for 40 minutes. Hell, I can't remember when any have lasted 30 let alone 40. Usually I move them or they are cleared.

KingnewgameplusJul 16, 20161 votes

Place it on red side red buff bush behind the camp, works wonders.

JavelinJoeJul 16, 20161 votes

I do, it is currently my second most placed spot behind the bot tri

DemoGuideJul 15, 20165 votes

I dont build sightstone. Vision game in league pisses me off so much. Sometimes i build on 20+ minutes because i need to finish my core utility items. I freaking hate idea in lol that support=wardbot. True support shields, heals, buffs allies or disrupts, controls, harasses enemies. And i maximize this potential by building ap/cdr on mages, or utility/cdr on AP supports.

Mecha MaIphiteJul 15, 20167 votes

800 gold is not a lot. You'll even make up for the gold deficit by having enough wards to prevent you and your ADC from dying to a goon squad or to sweep out wards and get your own goon squad down there.

DemoGuideJul 15, 20163 votes

800 Gold is a lot for support. And in most cases, this delay is critical. A lot of AP supports are mana hungry, so i prefer getting Lost Chapter on them as a first buy. And then i can poke enemy all day long without worry of getting oom for a crucial fight.

Duke AnaxJul 15, 20163 votes

Agreed, with a pink somewhere above dragon i don't actually need any more wards than the yellow ones.

I only get it before level 9 when I need to roam a lot. Iusually gwt it at level 9 though, because defintely is not enough wards.

Though some choice supports I actuall take tracker, like Nasus.

Bottom LanerJul 15, 20163 votes

A lot of AP supports are mana hungry

If only supports had mana regen ( item 3301 item 3096 item 3069 item 2302 item 3504 item 3028 item 3174 item 3303 item 3098 item 3092 item 2301 item 1004 item 3114 item 3222 )

Meteor DrizJul 15, 20164 votes

I think warding is a responsibility to be shared by the entire team. More fun for supports. #removeSSfromLOL

SlashStrikerJul 15, 20164 votes

i think the major problem is that Sightstone items grands charges that recharge upon visiting the shop while trinkets recharge every X seconds. They don't deliver decent stats and therefor they are not appealing.

item 3069 > item 2045 item 2302 item 3340 (free and recharges) >

The talisman seems to be good Item cause the movement speed can save your life and or it can give you OP initiation On top of it also grands some protection vs AD champions

Alistar + item 3069 item 3117 Imagine Alistar with ton of movement speed. That is pretty much nightmare for any enemy team. He is already tanky from his ult and this utility compliments him perfectly. Thats pretty much what Disco Heat builds on Ali and it works quite well

Also if i am tank like Alistar why the fk do i need vision or tenacity? 70% damage reduction mates!!!

JavelinJoeJul 16, 20161 votes

Also if i am tank like Alistar why the fk do i need vision or tenacity? 70% damage reduction mates!!!

That only applies to you. For you to even suggest that shows how much of a team player you are and should not even play the support role.

While yes, item 3340 is more convenient than item 2045 in terms of charges refreshing on the go, getting a SS allows you to grab item 3364 which comes in handy when setting up death bushes. Alstar is really suited for the blind engage Not really possible when sitting on a ward.

SlashStrikerJul 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

That only applies to you. For you to even suggest that shows how much of a team player you are and should not even play the support role.

While yes, is more convenient than in terms of charges refreshing on the go, getting a SS allows you to grab which comes in handy when setting up death bushes. Alstar is really suited for the blind engage Not really possible when sitting on a ward.

how the hell are you sitting on ward when you are pushing mid lane like boss and you are ready to tower dive any moment???

and yes i agree that this item item 2045 allows you to get this item item 3364 but since you are pushing why would you need this ????

JavelinJoeJul 16, 20161 votes

Clearing out wards around objectives like baron and dragon

DarkRitualJul 16, 20164 votes

item 3711 Forgot one item.

That said, I agree supports should be getting a sightstone. They don't always need to rush it first item though. It's fine to upgrade to tier 2 gold income, grab tier one boots, then finish sightstone. I've pushed it back a little bit on Sona, opting to grab Tear and Mobi boots before grabbing the sightstone and upgrading my Coin.

LordOfTheLeagueJul 15, 20163 votes

It's not because you go full damage that you can't support. If your support can put the enemy from 100 to 10% easily, that mean you only has to do 10% so he can let you get easy kills. Damage help to support just like a lot of others stuffs.

SpecterVonBarenJul 16, 20163 votes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvJsG4F2Img&list=FLpoKboAKuAtBORIpR_WG0TA&index=3

Ok. How bout you buy a sighstone then? I hate Riot so much for removing green wards, not only can I not do anything more than half assedly ward against danger when I end up playing top or mid but it gave everyone yet another excuse to bitch at me about wards. I had a game the other day where I had used up all of my SS wards and then almost instantly I got bitched at for not warding enough.

Why don't you, the solo laner, that's getting all that gold and is so concerned about vision, build the item if it's so damn important? Why doesn't top or jung pick a damn tank if they're so worried about it instead of shoving it off on the support to pick up the slack for a horrible comp because the solo laners just HAVE to be a glass cannon? How bout YOU start fucking peeling for the carries instead of expecting me to peel off three fed bruisers/tanks that I have to use all my CC to keep ONE off of my ADC?

Blue Moon WolfJul 16, 20163 votes

item 2045 only gives health and a item cdr that might be useless if you don't have any items with actives. Health is always useful, but it doesn't do much for a squishy support that can practically die the moment someone jumps on them anyway.

item 2303 is fine, but doesn't have the shield item 3401 can give, which can mean life or death for an ADC that got jumped on.

item 2301 not only gives half the AP item 3092 gives (AP that on some champs, decides how much the rest of the team is HEALED FOR), but it also doesn't give you the extremely useful slow FQC has. A slow that was so useful, mid laners abused it till it got nerfed.

item 2302 doesn't have a movement speed boosts that item 3069 has, nor the armor. all it gives is a measly 200 HP, health regen and mana regen. Stat wise, it is a very sucky item, but this IS the most unpopular line of support items for a reason.

item 3711 is a perfectly viable item, given to the one role that can actually ward all over the map during the laning phase. but cause the other options give the jungler the ability to smite champs, people have no problem with them not having warding item.

Jungle has scuttles that can ward the river, wolfs that can act as a floating ward when smited, raptors that can help REMOVE enemy wards and a item 3711 that can still be given augments for more stats and a bonus passive in some cases.

So you can live with the 1 less main damage item and get a SightStone.

That "one less main damage item" slot isn't just for a damage item. there is item 3222 item 3174 item 3050 item 3512 and other defensive items that the that ward item can take from the support. Warding is a team effort and it's forced on the support cause no one wants to do it. I bet even if there was a ward item that gave 80 AD, one that gave 70 AP and another that gave 65 Armor and MR, nobody would ever buy them and would still force warding on the support.

JavelinJoeJul 16, 20161 votes

80 AD, one that gave 70 AP and another that gave 65 Armor and MR, nobody would ever buy them and would still force warding on the support.

Those would be taken up fairly quickly, at least by the AD champs for the damage alone. 70 ap is not really enough though so mage assassins may still not.

Blue Moon WolfJul 16, 20161 votes

My numbers were a bit off, but the point still stands. If there was a viable ward item available for each role, odds are they would go as unused as item 3033 is and item 3185 was.

TraakSCJul 16, 20163 votes

As a support who always gets SS, I am sick of being the only one with a pink constantly on the map :P

rtbf22147970Jul 15, 20162 votes

SS isn't as critical as you think. Game has evolved into a trap game with blue trink and pinks. Ideally there'd be 5 pinks down and 4 wards at all times with quadrant control on your side and a few deep wards on the same half on their side. That's how you make picks to secure objectives off of.

JezboJul 15, 20162 votes

What if I finish boots before I buy SS. Am I still the bastard?

Sassmast3rJul 16, 20162 votes

Well, considering the fact that they've made EVERYONE capable of warding with TWO WARDS now, I think supports (and this includes me as well) think it's totally pointless, as we hope that everyone else will take advantage of their own wards.

Typically, I observe how the rest of my team wards. If my ADC hasn't used their ward a single time, and my midlaner has only used one or so, then for sure I'll get a sightstone. However, if the map is already warded sufficiently almost all the time, I'm probably not going to rush sightstone. I'll still get one, but it certainly won't be a purchase I make instantaneously.

Eunbi BiasJul 16, 20162 votes

I have a question. I agree that Sightstone is very important, but many get along with out it, using their abilities and other items. Frost Queen Claim Kalista W Cait Trap Nidalee Trap Ashe Hawk Thresh Lantern Jhin Trap Kog'Maw Ultimate Lucain W Teemo Shroom Ezreal Passive Zyra Bud (Some of these are just checks, others actual lasting vision) However, is this biased off of former games where support did not get SS, or did not originally until you pestered/yelled at them to? I'm not trying to be mean, so please don't downvote just off the bat. Just know, there are more people to provide vision then just the support. ADC can do it too. It all comes to a synergy of both contributions. It's also a matter of not overextending It isn't a full support item, as extremely juke-y Lee Sin can use it on top of trackers. Supports should not take all the kills, but if they are securing or doing it to save someone's life, it is acceptable. Also, if it is a pure accident, a little gold for the support will benefit the team.