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Janna is, as a statement of objective fact...

Bouncemaster Zac··4 votes·1,706 views

...the most broken Champion in the entire history of League. 6 full seasons and she's not once fallen below 54% winrate and 20%~ pickrate. She's the single most frequently and heavily nerfed Champion ever and still sits at a popular playrate with above-average winrate. She's the easiest an most reliable Champion to fully stack item 3041 on, save for maybe Lux. No matter how the meta shifts, there's still no real answer to her either. Strongest disengage in the game so diving and engaging is a no-go. Lane trading is a no because spammable shield that also gives her adc more ad. Siege isn't gonna happen because she can put her shield on turrets (and they get bonus ad too.) Rotation and splitpush comps don't work because she can use her passive to boost allies around the map. The closest thing to a valid option is poke comps, and those are dumbed down by her shield as well, and if they're really desperate for anti-poke they can just take Yasuo mid. But, you can't dare say Janna is broken because "she's just a support, you're why nobody likes to play support shut up you're wrong"

Am I crazy or is Janna's kit in it's entirety just stupid?

39 Comments

SchmidttyGames4 votes

I can't say that she's broken because when she's alone she's almost totally powerless. I mean...when was the last time you got 1v1'd by a Janna? Has it ever happened? If it did, were you as humiliated as I would be?

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yfl5HjRA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-01-11T23:29:33.236+0000)

I can't say that she's broken because when she's alone she's almost totally powerless. I mean...when was the last time you got 1v1'd by a Janna? Has it ever happened? If it did, were you as humiliated as I would be?

I just played a match with an AP Janna mid and believe me, she could 1v1 whoever she wanted whenever she wanted because there is literally no answer to her kit.

SchmidttyGames5 votes

So she tickled you guys to death with her pathetic AA's? That's fairly sad.

But there is an answer to her kit. It's called "burst mage". Specifically Zyra

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

[{quoted}](name=RAMP Schmidtty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yfl5HjRA,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-01-11T23:37:05.320+0000)

So she tickled you guys to death with her pathetic AA's? That's fairly sad.

But there is an answer to her kit. It's called "burst mage". Specifically Zyra

No, she oneshot people with E-Q-auto thunderlords because her Q did 300-400 damage even when not charged. Either way, this belief that a because a Champion "doesn't do damage lol just ignore them" needs to go. A Champion can be broken without needing to oneshot people.

SchmidttyGames2 votes

I'd question why you let her get that strong. I typically stick Janna's under their tower until the inevitable gank comes with a Zyra. She's about as threatening as a cannon minion during lane phase.

Spârky2 votes

If you let a ap janna beat you you need to get better at the game... she has no health at all i know she has a shield but just go in let her use her shield then go back in once its gone....

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

[{quoted}](name=PG Sparky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yfl5HjRA,comment-id=00010000000000000001,timestamp=2017-01-12T00:14:30.778+0000)

If you let a ap janna beat you you need to get better at the game... she has no health at all i know she has a shield but just go in let her use her shield then go back in once its gone....

I was playing Zed, and Janna is his hardest counter soooo

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

Well then you shouldn't be surprised that you were stomped then.

If a burst mage was up against her, she would be toast because her disengage would be useless against someone who can blow her up from half a screen away.

Spârky1 votes

OH i forgot that zed gets countered by janna... That statement is so stupid on so many levels. You can just push her into the turret and just w q her over and over .... whatever your not gonna listen to reason no matter what your gonna keep coming up with ways to make sure you are right so im gonna peace out janna is fine where she is.

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

[{quoted}](name=PG Sparky,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yfl5HjRA,comment-id=0001000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2017-01-12T00:28:36.365+0000)

OH i forgot that zed gets countered by janna... That statement is so stupid on so many levels. You can just push her into the turret and just w q her over and over .... whatever your not gonna listen to reason no matter what your gonna keep coming up with ways to make sure you are right so im gonna peace out janna is fine where she is.

"Claiming that a Champion is countered by their counter is stupid." Yeah no. If it were support Janna sure you could shove her in but an AP Janna who rushes Luden's can clear waves almost instantly with Q. And no, you can't "w-q her over and over" because of her shield. Also "keep coming up with ways to make sure you're right." Yes, that's how debates work, especially when you're right. So yeah, you peace out because you have no valid argument against what I've said.

Spârky2 votes

Man all im gonna say is that your reasons are lame and you can push her in because she doesnt one hit waves level one... but i'll let you do your thing sorry i bothered..

The Last Ballad1 votes

Neither does anyone else. Seriously, why is "she cant 1-shot minions lvl 1" even one of your arguments? Janna will be pushed in early, however she is more of a late game scaling champ. My guess is that people who take her mid have practice csing under tower. And the w-q combo has a cooldown of 22-15 seconds, without cdr, her shield has a cooldown of 10 without cdr. So poking for 122.5 - 367(assuming both hit and they do not go through minions(note: not likely)) every 22-15 seconds, with each one being blocked for 80-240, it isn't going to do much Mr. man. lvl 2 this would do 42.5 damage to her if both played perfectly(minus Janna being hit by the both shirikans first), which with Janna's hp/1 of 5.82 at lvl 2, would take 7 seconds to heal. In other words, it would do squat in the long run.

And you cannot judge a counter based on lvl 1 laneing. Janna counters Zed because she can completely nullify his efforts if she is anywhere near his target, what with her shield, slow, knockup, and knockback. The amount of times I have had a Zed try to kill me(or an ally) when I was Janna support, and fail, makes your assertion that Zed isn't countered by Janna laughable. Zed needs kills to be effective, Janna doesn't even need items to be effective(do her base job of protection), in addition to being faster than him. He can't kill her(unless she makes a horrendous mistake), and he can't roam without her being there if she wishes(ms w passive op). So sure, he has better pushing until item 3285 , but after that? Nah.

The Last Ballad1 votes

You do realise that used to have large ap scalings on q(70%) and w(80%). She could oneshot waves. If you built her ap, you got a super support, able to keep her entire team at full health with her 150% ap scaling ult(50% each second) so a lvl 16 Janna can heal for 200+50% of her ap, (which if you are going ap would be at least 500ap) each second for 3 seconds. That adds up to 450(which is equal to max level redemption) every second, with a total of 1350 health, which is over half of most squishies health.

item 3040 also works wonders with her as she has the highest total mana without building any. She is also one of the few people that can stack item 3041 without much issue or danger of dying. item 3089 boosts both of these, so it's a must. item 3165 for the mana sustain and cooldown, item 3117 because gotta go fast, and item 3285 for extra damage. These together giver her 3100 mana, which translates into 93 ap, plus the 80 from item 3040, then 125 from a fully stacked item 3041, 200 ap from item 3165 & item 3285, and finally it is all added to the 120 from item 3089 and compounded with 35% boost to equal 834 ap. That much, all the while having 335+115+10%+10%+33.68%+1.5%=738 raw out of combat ms, which, with the ms soft caps, equals 599 ms out of combat ms, which is almost the same as an ulting quinn. And a 524 incombat ms. Granted, this is a best case scenario and a rather expensive build, but it is possible to achieve if you are good at her.

And even with her scalings gutted(35% on q, 50% on w) my sister STILL managed to get fed and carry a game as her,** from support**(she is terrible kill stealer as Janna, somehow...). And if she goes mid and does badly? She still has excellent utility(one person managed to win a game as support Janna with only a item 3301, item 2049, and a trinket).

know she has a shield but just go in let her use her shield then go back in once its gone....

And you did not just suggest going in on a Janna. Janna is the queen of disengage, so exactly how are you going to go in on her when she does not want you to? Her shield lasts 5 seconds, the cooldown is 10. You have 5 seconds to act in between shields, without cdr, and she will be faster than you, with a tornado to keep you away and a slow if really necessary. Once she gets 45% cdr you have .5 seconds. Good luck. If you are someone like LeBlanc, then you might have a chance, but if someone is taking Janna mid, they are good at her and have practice interrupting dashes, like LB w.

Jorencice2 votes

400 damage is pathetic when compared to almost any mage...

AP janna was LONG ago neefed into oblivion.

SwiftKitten884 votes

... http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/janna/all

wow that took a lot of research and digging to find a time where she had less than a 20% pick rate an a 54% winrate

[{quoted}](name=Get Blobbed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yfl5HjRA,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-11T23:25:26.228+0000) Am I crazy or is Janna's kit in it's entirety just stupid?

You're crazy

Klavier1 votes

There was a time in season 2 or 3 where she wasn't even considered a strong pick or popular one. But she always had a dedicated player base.

Cloud2733 votes

Janna is played more than any support (except thresh), and she wins more than any support. She is broken.

LolWutNaniQue3 votes

Yeah, this is exactly the main reason why you dumb chucklefucks will never, ever run out of champions to complain about. You think statistics are the actual indicators of balance. Of all the bajillion things that affect playrate/winrate/lossrate:

  1. taste in champions
  2. availability of the champion due to price
  3. happens to have a skill-set that didn't become side-shifted during any of the changes
  4. popularity of the champion in streams/tournaments
  5. a conceived "high skill-cap" that attracts players to try to master the champion
  6. actual, raw power discrepancy due to exceptionally high numbers (very, very rare)

it's always number 6 with you guys. Without ever proving why this is the case. Your "argument" boils down to: I don't like this champion, so she's obviously broken and needs to be changed so it fits my opinion on how the game should be. The appeal to statistics is always there to give the impression that you have evidence for any of your assertions. Well, the truth is, you don't.

there's no real answer to her

Winrate is not enough evidence to support this.

strongest disengage in the game

She has no engage, either. Why is this broken? Irrelevant claim.

Lane trading is a no because spammable shield

Lane trading is a yes because spamming attack abilities. Provide evidence that Janna wins the majority of 2v2 damage trades. (You can't.)

Sienge isn't gonna happen because she can put her shield on turrets.

Proof that Janna prevents all sieges? When did a single shield on a turret ever prevent it from falling? A siege comp would LOVE Janna on the opposing team - one less engage tool by the enemy, no consistent healing.

Rotation and split comps don't work

Proof?

Oleandervine2 votes

Janna is stable and pretty balanced. She is not OP or broken, and is not a guaranteed win if you have her on the team.

Dynikus2 votes

6 full seasons and she's not once fallen below 54% winrate and 20%~ pickrate. She's the single most frequently and heavily nerfed Champion ever and still sits at a popular playrate with above-average winrate.

Where are you pulling this shit from? Because that's horribly wrong on both accounts.

Leblancs Boob2 votes

She's been the strongest champion in the game for multiple seasons. Too bad she's a support so most people will just automatically defend her without any real statistics to justify her being balanced. She needs a power shift to add make her Q and W more useful while giving sizable nerfs to her E and Ult.

Dynikus2 votes

That's not true at all. When Sona Soraka or Leona were broken, everyone was complaining about them. Simply being a support doesn't give them immunity.

MaeDoSan1 votes

Like wtf is this even .... You are so inconsistent first you say she rekted you mid then said she doesn't do dmg .... If there is one champ I hate to have as support it's Janna coz she is pure utility nothing else and I'm forced to play passive with her coz she doesn't do shit herself and her Q CD is so damn high with a slow animation I'd pick soraka over Janna anyday

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

{quoted}

Like wtf is this even .... You are so inconsistent first you say she rekted you mid then said she doesn't do dmg .... If there is one champ I hate to have as support it's Janna coz she is pure utility nothing else and I'm forced to play passive with her coz she doesn't do shit herself and her Q CD is so damn high with a slow animation I'd pick soraka over Janna anyday

"You're so inconsistent."

I'm sorry you don't realize building damage on a Champion will make them do damage. That's your problem. Support Janna does not do damage, but AP Janna does. Regardless, a Champion does not need to do damage to be too strong, hence this thread.

MaeDoSan1 votes

Is this a fckin joke ??!!?! You have viegar with 2 seconds stuns and abilities to one shot your whole team and your complaining about Janna mid ?? Wt actual fk

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

{quoted}

Is this a fckin joke ??!!?! You have viegar with 2 seconds stuns and abilities to one shot your whole team and your complaining about Janna mid ?? Wt actual fk

Oh and here's this argument again. "Other champs are broken so this one isn't an issue." No. Leave.

MaeDoSan2 votes

None of her abilities are game breaking and each of them have a decently long cooldown so your complaining for no reason

Mysticman891 votes

Looking up jannas winrate on op.gg, right this moment shes 52.2% winrate, so you're off to a bad start on these 'objective facts'.

Bouncemaster Zac2 votes

{quoted}

Looking up jannas winrate on op.gg, right this moment shes 52.2% winrate, so you're off to a bad start on these 'objective facts'.

op.gg isn't necessarily accurate, nor is Champion.gg. Hell, I actually looked myself up on op.gg yesterday to see what I had been doing the best with personally and op.gg said that I hadn't played Ranked in over a month.

Dynikus3 votes

I actually looked myself up on op.gg yesterday to see what I had been doing the best with personally and op.gg said that I hadn't played Ranked in over a month.

Did you hit the refresh button? Because it shows the exact same match history as the client.

No 3rd party is particularly accurate when it comes to champion statistics though, which is a reason you can't really use them for your argument. The only people with completely accurate champion stats are Riot. This post is pretty damn hypocritical though, considering one of your "facts" is

6 full seasons and she's not once fallen below 54% winrate and 20%~ pickrate

Yet now you're arguing that 3rd party data isn't accurate.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Looking up jannas winrate on op.gg, right this moment shes 52.2% winrate, so you're off to a bad start on these 'objective facts'.

Facts change every day. I prefer to use data over the last month (or however long this patch was out), because that data is compiled over a long period of time. It's not numbers that change every minute. If you look at champion.gg, it has data from plat+ over the last month. I'd say that's pretty accurate.

http://champion.gg/statistics/#?sortBy=general.playPercent&order=descend

Mysticman891 votes

That source has a 53ish winrate currently too, so, they're still not really providing a solid basis for their claim.

I don't really like to use winrate/banrate/pickrate etc since theres a lot of confounding variables woven into those numbers that take work to deal with appropriately, which most people (myself included) are unlikely to do. op.gg was just the first site I happened upon, I don't really have a preferred source, and as people have said, 3rd party accuracy is prone to be suspect or may account for different things in unclear ways.

That said, I'm more inclined to trust relatively well known 3rd party sites over the claim of a random forum poster.

dim2a1 votes

And yet she is below 1% banrate in plat+. 1%! If she was as unbalanced as you claim, you'd think people would ban her more. "balanced" Vayne at ~38% banrate says Hi, as does Balanced Lee Sin

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

{quoted}

And yet she is below 1% banrate in plat+. 1%! If she was as unbalanced as you claim, you'd think people would ban her more. "balanced" Vayne at ~38% banrate says Hi, as does Balanced Lee Sin

Not how that works. People don't ban her because banning a support is "a waste." Except in the LCS, where she gets banned fairly often. Hmmmm. Either way the brokenness of Vayne and Lee (who legit got nerfed today ) isn't what's being debated here.

Spârky1 votes

LCS gets banned fairly often? I almost never saw her banned if she did it was very seldom... I think you just need to get better at playing against janna until you gather some real evidence that she is indeed broken stop complaining. The reason her winrate is high btw is because she has a simple kit. Press E on the adc. That's why her winrate is high because its hard to mess up on janna and her pickrate isnt always that high. Champs like nami and sona outclass janna way to much. They do what janna does but better. (They heal someone rather than just shield them)

Bouncemaster Zac1 votes

While I do appreciate a lot of you being constructive, I'm gonna start going with "report then ignore" on any post that boils down to either "lol git gud" or "but other chmps are broken too so shut up."

Jorencice1 votes

Your just wasting your report strength then...

For every false report the system will start giving less and less weight to your reports...

Kilanost1 votes

Janna is annoying AF but I don't think she's in a bad spot. Her win rate is strong right now because her kit directly counters divers who are the dominant class at the moment.

Immortal spax1 votes

as a rioter stated, balance isnt always 50% winrate, because this is soloQ, janna's kit isnt broken, but she counters, not only the 65% of the champs, but even the 80% of the MENTALITY of the people, that leads her to this high winrate, next time instead to pick super hard engage on janna, pick other champs, and see hoe her winrate will fall off.

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