Oh look, Janna is at 54%~ winrate. Again.

Bouncemaster Zac·Mar 1, 2018·79 votes·42,908 views

EDIT: So a lot of folks are defending Janna saying she's strong due to the current meta favoring her... except that would imply every meta for the past 7 years has favored her. She's never not been a top-tier Champion. It's a Janna issue; not a meta issue or an adc issue or whatever else. It's just Janna.

She's a top 5/10 Champion. Again. Like she always has been since the day she came out. Can she either be gutted into unplayability or reworked to not be completely idiot-proof and impossible to be bad at? She's going to stay an anti-fun, no-skill easy mode Champ until something decisive is done with her.

310 Comments

RiotRiotRepertoirMar 1, 201871 votes

Looking into some Heal/Shield stuff during the 8.6 cycle. Unsure what the outcome of that will be, but if we move forward with it, Janna would certainly be affected.

Denims Wrath666Mar 1, 20185 votes

you guys just need a shield popper item. something that works similar to healing reduction, or just flat % increase onto shields damage. and make it kinda cheap. you wont even need to touch supports after that.

RiotRiotRepertoirMar 1, 201833 votes

We need a solution to the state of shielding in the game for sure. Whether that's shield popper, less shielding, less powerful shielding, shield mitigation, extra damage to shield, or a mix of several, we do need a solution.

LostFr0stMar 1, 20186 votes

How about directional shielding for on-ally shields and dash shields (kinda like Fiora passive but with rules)?

Has something like that been explored and a way to open up counterplay?

RiotRiotRepertoirMar 1, 201818 votes

Could be cool. Not sure if it's been explored or not, but it would definitely be interesting to see how it plays out.

ricardo2010Mar 1, 20183 votes

How about make shielding champions much more squishy than they already are so they actually have to make a decision whether to shield themself or someone else.

ChaddyFantomeMar 1, 201816 votes

{quoted}

How about make shielding champions much more squishy than they already are so they actually have to make a decision whether to shield themself or someone else.

They already blow up like tissue paper.

RyrynounetMar 1, 20182 votes

not enough huehuehue, but tbh some champions got restrained bc of their kit, sion with his HP on W, thresh with his armor on his passive for exemple, so it could be normal for champions who have a shield in their kit to be slightly more squishy tho

Corrupt BlissMar 1, 201813 votes

Janna/Sona/Soraka/Lulu start with extremely low HP. Part of the reason they play so safe and only shield carries is because of how easy they are to blow up. Zed W-Q-E-Auto can easily kill any of the above. Even when on low HP, I choose to shield carries because majority of players have ingrained in their minds that they have to kill the carry first, then the support. However, it is often the other way around.

I do not think changes need to be made to how easy an enchanter support is to kill, but rather how they need to use their utility.

jaekxMar 1, 20183 votes

You coulda just said Braum..... Braum has that..............

SõnaMar 1, 20185 votes

maybe just use the most of the mmo shield mechanism which only block certain incoming damage like 80% instead of 100%, while some damage will still be directed to ourselves. So you wouldn't want a 100hp ADC suddenly gain a 500HP shield and unstoppable.. It needs certain counterplay..

OnotoriMar 1, 20183 votes

You know what the solution is? Tune damage WAY THE FUCK DOWN (particularly ADC burst) so that the ADC that got shielded doesn't one shot the entire enemy team before they even take damage.

Problem solved.

AlienPrimateMar 1, 20181 votes

That would make the shielding problem worse. The less damage we can do the more value shields and heals will have.

jadelinkMar 5, 20182 votes

Actually, no. Sheilds are great vs burst, but not vs sustained damage, they wear out. If adcs move back to a sustained damage pattern and less 2 second frantic damage we'd get more drawn out teamfights, but sheilding is way less effective in a 15 seconds teamfight than in a 6 second one.

BreathlesslyMar 1, 20187 votes

how about shields that dont last a fucking hour long meaning they dont get punished for bad timing

Akali is SO HOTMar 1, 201821 votes

Adding a shield popper to the game is probably not a good idea. Then you would have to balance shields around the fact that the item exists and if it ever becomes too powerful or too weak, then all shields need to be adjusted accordingly and would just be a mess to balance around. Would be better to just do work on the shields.

PoskeMar 1, 20181 votes

Yes heard that argument. Pretty bad one dont get noob baited into this random rioter philosophy notion.

Counterplay of counterplay to counterplay for counterplay is the best design

Currently shields have 0 conterplay

ChaddyFantomeMar 1, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Yes heard that argument. Pretty bad one dont get noob baited into this random rioter philosophy notion.

Counterplay of counterplay to counterplay for counterplay is the best design

Currently shields have 0 conterplay

You mean besides waiting em out? Or silencing/stunning thr shielder? Focusing the WhiteMage instead of the ranger?

5000000000000000Mar 1, 20183 votes

Or choosing a different target. Or just breaking through.

NefasMar 1, 201817 votes

Why are supports who are just point and click like Janna and Lulu treated or viewed differently than a Pantheon or old old Swain in terms of the unhealthiness of their kits?

RiotRiotRepertoirMar 1, 201856 votes

They're not really. We're just behind on them.

FloupiMar 1, 20186 votes

[deleted]

TerozuMar 1, 201810 votes

Ehhh, Lulu isnt entirely brainless. She has to assess a situation with her ally/enemy casts and decide a good course of action. And her only real damage is a slow moving skill shot.

PoskeMar 1, 20185 votes

Support role as a whole is entirely brainless specially for how much impact Riot gave the role recently.

Now if you forced support role to interact in unique ways with their own minions for various impact and some gold, then we could talk about anything support role not being brainless. OF course some champions within brainless role require brain like thresh

Reggarding the mentioned 3 I would argue that Sona is actually the hardest. Most people dont even understand that IMPACTFUL GOOD can be. Good sona LL remind you of AOE udyr

You have to be in center of your team constantly to buff your entire team. You have to react to damage with your shield (more correct then healing after due to low cd), You have to choose which passive to use (most people dont), just a positioning in center is generaly risky on top of being easier to focus then lulu and janna

But most people when they hear sona think of... Autopilot Q... which yes shouldnt be an autopilot ability but still

Night FallsMar 1, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Support role as a whole is entirely brainless specially for how much impact Riot gave the role recently.

I do not agree. There are easier picks, obviously, but you can definitely see when someone is inexperienced. Before supports could not have the same impact as the other roles because they usually had less gold to spend. Now imho they are perfectly on par with every other role. It's just that before they weren't.

{quoted}

Now if you forced support role to interact in unique ways with their own minions for various impact and some gold, then we could talk about anything support role not being brainless. OF course some champions within brainless role require brain like thresh

I'm not following. Why do you think that right now they're all brainless champions? You didn't explain why.

{quoted}

Reggarding the mentioned 3 I would argue that Sona is actually the hardest. Most people dont even understand that IMPACTFUL GOOD can be. Good sona LL remind you of AOE udyr

You have to be in center of your team constantly to buff your entire team. You have to react to damage with your shield (more correct then healing after due to low cd), You have to choose which passive to use (most people dont), just a positioning in center is generaly risky on top of being easier to focus then lulu and janna

But most people when they hear sona think of... Autopilot Q... which yes shouldnt be an autopilot ability but still

Dude, Sona is an easy champion and it's fine. It's not that if a champion is easy to play it's a terrible thing and you should be ashamed to play that champ, not at all. Sona has just one skillshot. And a fairly easy one, it's fast, it's really wide, meaning that it's really hard to miss. Being in the center of the team... you mean positioning. Every role has to position well. It's not unique for supports. And her shield is actually easier than the others because you don't even have to target the ally. Just press W. Choosing the passive it's the only thing that is often overlooked, I feel sometimes that is really gameplay-changing. Empowered W is really really strong.

Again, Sona is an easy champion and there's nothing wrong.

PoskeMar 1, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Night Falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EE87bgi9,comment-id=0003000200000002000000000002,timestamp=2018-03-01T20:36:37.593+0000)

I do not agree. There are easier picks, obviously, but you can definitely see when someone is inexperienced. Before supports could not have the same impact as the other roles because they usually had less gold to spend. Now imho they are perfectly on par with every other role. It's just that before they weren't.

Compare inexperienced support and inexperienced midlaner.. yeah 20 minute stomp GG

Supports are on par in terms of impact specially compared to toplane this doesnt make them any less brainless

Imaqtpie the man who hit Rank1 is aware of this

They have very little skill checking. Laners have CS ing jungle has its own thing. Supports have afking in botlane brush with ocassional poke if they are poke champs

This is why I suggested Support should have their own unique constant consistent input. Nothing better then interacting with allied minions. Now I didnt go in specifics But I would rework a minion wave and make them interact with minions in unique ways (Courrier version, denying version, speed version, forced minion block/wall etc are just the examples)

I'm not following. Why do you think that right now they're all brainless champions? You didn't explain why.

Support Role is brainless not the champions themself

I would say they are slightly more difficult then tanks on avg to excecute to the fullest

Dude, Sona is an easy champion and it's fine. It's not that if a champion is easy to play it's a terrible thing and you should be ashamed to play that champ, not at all.

I specificly played sona when I got autofilled in ARDENT meta because I felt like I could express my skill the most. More then with janna/lulu/nami and other ardenters. I do think her skillcap is slightly underated but I feel like sona players suck at hiting her maximun potentional due to clarity and some other stuff

Sona has just one skillshot. And a fairly easy one, it's fast, it's really wide, meaning that it's really hard to miss.

I mean dont get me wrong she is way to easy and I couldnt stomach constantly playing her. I main only endless skillcap champions

Being in the center of the team... you mean positioning. Every role has to position well. It's not unique for supports. And her shield is actually easier than the others because you don't even have to target the ally. Just press W.

Janna can be behind, karma can be behind, lulu can be behind.

Sona correct positioning is extremly strict as she has to be constantly close to everything and keep spreading her buff

Choosing the passive it's the only thing that is often overlooked, I feel sometimes that is really gameplay-changing. Empowered W is really really strong.

Again, Sona is an easy champion and there's nothing wrong.

She is. I find Janna and Lulu easier tho

Also there isnt much difference between aim and click and automatic skillshot..

Night FallsMar 1, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Compare inexperienced support and inexperienced midlaner..

Gladly! It seems that our support is autofilled and bad! That means... Wrong engages Bad peeling Little to no warding, or even useless/wrong warding Passive laning phase, or worse, not realizing that the support has to carry the ADC in the early game No roaming

I'm definitely not saying that support does everything, it's the most difficult role, etc. Just trying to tell you that when you don't have a support you can definitely feel it. It's just that the support power is a little more invisible sometimes. Just like when someone doesn't use Sona at her fullest potential, you can tell.

{quoted}

Lots of people like impaqtpie dont agree them being on par in terms of impact. Do you know why? Because curently support role is brainless

They have very little stat checking. Laners have CS ing jungle has its own thing

Just because a pro says something it doesn't mean that is true. Support doesn't have to CS, but it's not like it has less things to do, no? And CSing applies just to the early game basically.

{quoted}

This is why I suggested Support should have their own unique constant consistent input. Nothing better then interacting with allied minions. Now I didnt go in specifics But I would rework a minion wave and make them interact with minions in unique ways (Courrier version, denying version, speed version, forced minion block/wall etc are just the examples)

Support Role is brainless not the champions themself

I would say they are slightly more difficult then tanks on avg to excecute to the fullest

Again, you didn't say why the support role is braindead, you're just suggesting things you want in game. Why is the support role braindead?

I can agree with everything else you said about Sona, but I feel you're thinking that Sona MUST 100% give her buffs to all her team, and SO it is hard to position well. I don't think it's the correct way to play her, but this is just my opinion.

PoskeMar 2, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Night Falls,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EE87bgi9,comment-id=000300020000000200000000000200010000,timestamp=2018-03-01T22:44:22.966+0000)

Gladly! It seems that our support is autofilled and bad! That means... Wrong engages Bad peeling Little to no warding, or even useless/wrong warding Passive laning phase, or worse, not realizing that the support has to carry the ADC in the early game No roaming

I'm definitely not saying that support does everything, it's the most difficult role, etc. Just trying to tell you that when you don't have a support you can definitely feel it. It's just that the support power is a little more invisible sometimes. Just like when someone doesn't use Sona at her fullest potential, you can tell.

I am not support main. If you were supported by me you would think that I am the support main. Or I could just take A mage botlane and 1vs2. What you are saying just doesnt have merit in High elo

Only time I can tell my support isnt support main is when they say "I am autofilled" While you can notice support player in other roles due to them being below a standard curve

I mean there is a small pattern all support autofills gravitate to thresh (As seen by champion roadmap)

Just because a pro says something it doesn't mean that is true. Support doesn't have to CS, but it's not like it has less things to do, no? And CSing applies just to the early game basically.

Yes? They actually have less things to do. Thats the whole point and you are supposed to CS trough entire game I have seen gameplay of leona with one Zenith blade being thrown in 7 minutes. And that was skilled leona the enemy team just didnt give her much oportunities

There are 2 options in my book:

*Reduce support role impact due to it being brainless *Make support none brainless role, allow them to interact with allied minions in unique ways with each

With a second option they would also fix an issue of spellthief, coin and targon. This 3 items and their buildpaths are incredibly OP to a point where people have been abusing them since season3 on onther roles

Again, you didn't say why the support role is braindead, you're just suggesting things you want in game. Why is the support role braindead?

BECAUSE YOU HAVE 0 FKING SKILL EXPRESSION IN A ROLE

OTHER ROLES constantly have to battle within CS ing You just fking AFK IN A BUSH and later in a game tag buddy follow your AD carry and put your JANNA shield on him

Atleast in season 1-2 you could express yourself with wards. Now everyone wards and spamms pinkwards .. Idk what to tell you dude. Ironicly enough support role had more skill back then...

Imagine a difference between 2 mids / junglers Imagine how high can it be

Now imagine how high difference between 2 supports can be. Yes it ll never be as high due to low skill expression And if you ever SEE a fking high difference between supports

THAT IS BECAUSE ONE SIDE IS FKING STOMPING and it has nothing to do with support difference

EVERYONE Knows that support role is brainless. THIS IS WHY YOU PUT DUMB/NEW PEOPLE at it.. Or those whore Egirl players who arent hardcore anyway

This has been transperent to anyone with few braincells since season1

They became slightly less brainless with spellthief,targon and coin but they are still extremly brainless

I can agree with everything else you said about Sona, but I feel you're thinking that Sona MUST 100% give her buffs to all her team, and SO it is hard to position well. I don't think it's the correct way to play her, but this is just my opinion.

Yes you cant get away playing like this you ll get punished. I could do it back in ardent meta but they removed her base stats

You cant even play sona nowdays in my elo without trolling

Night FallsMar 2, 20184 votes

{quoted}

I am not support main. If you were supported by me you would think that I am the support main. Or I could just take A mage botlane and 1vs2. What you are saying just doesnt have merit in High elo

Only time I can tell my support isnt support main is when they say "I am autofilled" While you can notice support player in other roles due to them being below a standard curve

I mean there is a small pattern all support autofills gravitate to thresh (As seen by champion roadmap)

No, I wouldn't. Because a support main knows better when to harass, deny/allow vision, roam, when to do short engages or go all in, peeling, and so on. Also, what do you mean by high elo? If every support autofilled plays Thresh is because generally people like flashy plays. Supports in general don't have much of flashiness. Thresh also has a fuckton of things in his kit, so it's a safe choice, always relevant in meta.

{quoted}

Yes? They actually have less things to do. Thats the whole point and you are supposed to CS trough entire game I have seen gameplay of leona with one Zenith blade being thrown in 7 minutes. And that was skilled leona the enemy team just didnt give her much oportunities

There are 2 options in my book:

*Reduce support role impact due to it being brainless *Make support none brainless role, allow them to interact with allied minions in unique ways with each

With a second option they would also fix an issue of spellthief, coin and targon. This 3 items and their buildpaths are incredibly OP to a point where people have been abusing them since season3 on onther roles

You're plain wrong. Everyone can have their opinion, but you're just plain wrong by saying "supports have less things to do", because it's a false statement. I don't think that an adc has to harass like a supp. The adc has to focus CSing. An adc generally doesn't ward that much. He can't go anywhere alone, so he can't ward. The adc also doesn't have to care about his teammates. His main goal is to bring damage in skirmishes and fights, and so ha has to stay alive as long as possible. Supports have to care about the team, provide utility to everyone.

And these are just four of the things that the support has to do.

About that Leona you saw... oh my god. I've seen junglers afk farming for 20 minutes. I've seen midlaners hugging their tower and letting the other one to roam freely. I've seen toplaners being in an island for 50 minutes. I've seen adcs more passive than the old Janna. Does it mean that all these roles are brainless? By your logic, yes.

{quoted}

BECAUSE YOU HAVE 0 FKING SKILL EXPRESSION IN A ROLE

OTHER ROLES constantly have to battle within CS ing

So CSing is the peak of the skill in league of legends, and there's no other skill involved in this game. This is ridicolous.

{quoted}

You just fking AFK IN A BUSH and later in a game tag buddy follow your AD carry and put your JANNA shield on him

Sorry but you've just described an autofilled support or just a bad one. Also, isn't easier to think that Janna is "braindead" than the support role? Although I don't think there are any braindead champion in this game, but whatever. Maybe you mean really easy champion, then yes absolutely, there are lots of easy champions.

{quoted}

Atleast in season 1-2 you could express yourself with wards. Now everyone wards and spamms pinkwards .. Idk what to tell you dude. Ironicly enough support role had more skill back then...

Yes sure, let's think about season 1-2, where the full build of a support was boots+9 wards and gp10 items. great memory I have of those days. No gold, no items. What a wonderful role.

{quoted}

Imagine a difference between 2 mids / junglers Imagine how high can it be

Now imagine how high difference between 2 supports can be. Yes it ll never be as high due to low skill expression And if you ever SEE a fking high difference between supports

THAT IS BECAUSE ONE SIDE IS FKING STOMPING and it has nothing to do with support difference

EVERYONE Knows that support role is brainless. THIS IS WHY YOU PUT DUMB/NEW PEOPLE at it.. Or those whore Egirl players who arent hardcore anyway

This has been transperent to anyone with few braincells since season1

They became slightly less brainless with spellthief,targon and coin but they are still extremly brainless

I refuse to continue discussing with you. At first I thought you had interesting things to discuss, but now you're just going ham on supports and ranting about them. Seem like you got stomped by some good supports and now you're salty. You're not backing up your statements with nothing but bullshit. I'm sorry. And you said everyone knows that support role is brainless. You're the only one who say that.

KaìjuMar 1, 201814 votes

While I have about 10000x less experience with balancing a game (unless balancing a chess board on a basket ball counts) I do have some input if you give any kind of a shit. I like Soraka a lot, she's been a growing pick of mine in my extremely small pool and I noticed something as I played her more. Healers are generally much less problematic than shielders. I think this is because you have now given all three archetypes, mages, tanks, physical fighters, Wounds in some way and made it easier to proc. This means that healers are easily countered by simply adjusting a build to include one item for each type of champion and you reduce a healers power by 40% or more depending on who it is, since Soraka is effected by GW more than say Nidalee. But shielders don't have an equivalent. Healers generally have some kind of stipulation, normally very high mana costs. Sony's heal I believe costs 85 mana, Nami's heal costs about 110 mana, Nidalee is also about 110, Soraka costs max health even if the costs is a bit lower but even so the spammy nature of it can lead to mana issues, and maybe one or two more. And while shielders might have similar mana costs, they don't have a way to have their shields reduced. This leads to a cycle where you guys might nerf items that buff heals and shields, but what you have just done is further reduce the effectiveness of healers while only bringing shielders down to a more bearable state until suddenly you can't viably pick a healer and still be at an advantage in team comp because a Soraka is just not as useful as Janna more often than not.

I understand that remove all poke can be annoying for some players in a lane like bot, but those same people need to understand that healers are designed to beat out poke. A Brand who does nothing but harass with W should lose to a Nami or Bard who specs into healing their ADC over just doing damage. Because those same people need to learn that all in beats healers, Thresh, Blitz, Leona, etc. So please don't nerf healers too much, Soraka and Nami have not been as hot as Janna and Lulu for some time so I think that shows a trend of who is relatively more powerful than who.

Soraka is SO HOTMar 1, 20186 votes

In the same vein, I hope that they don't mess with item 3114 item 3222 item 3504 item 3107 unique passives.

Currently, % heal/shield boosts from Forbidden Idol and its upgrades are concurrent - the item boosts the strength of both actions in one unique passive.

Nerfing the value of % heal/shield boost will hurt the healers.

[sg-soraka]

q3fogWe6LFMar 1, 201813 votes

The unique passive could be split into two - one for heals and one for shields!

Healing is already countered by grievous wounds, so there is no need to nerf % heal boost.

By splitting the passives, we could nerf potential shield power without touching healing.

For example...

item 3114 Unique Passive: Bloodrush: +8% healing power. Unique Passive: Shields Up: +4% shielding power.

item 3504
Unique Passive: Ardent Healing: +10% healing power. Unique Passive: Ardent Shielding: +6% shielding power.

item 3107 Unique Passive: +10% healing power. Unique Passive: +6% shielding power.

item 3222 Unique Passive: +20% healing power. Unique Passive: +12% shielding power.

Overall, you could only gain 24% increased shielding power versus the current 40%.

This would serve to nerf the current power of shielding without affecting the state of healing.

[sg-ezreal]

Ahri InariMar 1, 20181 votes

I understand that healer counter poker, but it's also important to give room for outplay to overcome matchup. So let's assume I play a good poker with bad all in like xerath support, why should I lose all my mana to deal no damage when I land everyskill shot agains't point & click just to see them full HP full Mana and outscale with all the healing/buff they give to their adc?

You may be countered by all in but we are both countered by all in and healer and shielder like Janna is actually a matchup we can do something, there are not much good mage support for this reason. Not only healer are usually hated for the same reason as shielder, but they are as problematic as shielder just because of matchup spread and nerfing them would open more diversity. Right now, Brand is the only high placed poker in the tier list with zyra and velkoz pretty far from him and the reason is because he can all in.

KaìjuMar 1, 20182 votes

If you are playing Xerath support and not poking Soraka herself you are doing it wrong. Even if you trade Q for Q, she won't win the trade so how would you be doing nothing?

Ahri InariMar 2, 20181 votes

Because ap poker vs healer is not just about Xerath vs Soraka? Not all mage have range to reach a lazy support siting behind their adc to poke a healer that can't heal herself without taking risk.

KaìjuMar 3, 20181 votes

Then poke the ADC, she still loses health to heal them. Invest in some mana and poke them out.

Ahri InariMar 5, 20181 votes

With fleet took by every adc, if they have a healer or even worse if they start doran shield I'll lose all my mana to put them at full hp and enemy support can match my item purchase. Buying more mana regen won't work. This is not for no reason mage is the least played for support role. If riot intent to open more diversity in bot lane other than marksmen like they said, they will have to open support role too.

KaìjuMar 5, 20182 votes

Have you tried Xerath bot? Because last I checked doing 300 HP every five seconds is a pretty decent trade off for mana.

SithLordLemleMar 1, 20184 votes

{quoted}

They're not really. We're just behind on them.

I have trouble believing they're not treated differently. Volibear gets up to 54% for a single patch and an E nerf is up on PBE within a week. Janna and ardent were an issue for an entire season and she's still at 54% with a 21% (INSANE) pick rate. I feel like rings true with any damage dealer (Vayne, Trist, Twitch, Shy, J4). If they're near 53% for more than a patch they get addressed, yet somehow shield supports go untouched for months, and the sentiment is oh we are just behind. I feel like saying they're treated the same is just untrue at this point. It may not be intentional, but that doesn't mean they're treated the same.

Over InnsmouthMar 1, 20183 votes

Will this Heal/Shield stuff affect self-healers and self-shielders?

341123545652Mar 1, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Looking into some Heal/Shield stuff during the 8.6 cycle. Unsure what the outcome of that will be, but if we move forward with it, Janna would certainly be affected.

Do you think a potential reason as to why Janna keeps returning as a high winrate champion over and over (despite multiple nerfs to her kit) could be related less to the power level of the champion itself and more toward the cultural tendency of the people maining Janna receiving duo q boosts from higher elo smurfs? Its extremely common and I am sure you folks at Riot are aware of it, maybe the time will come when the community is ready to stop turning a blind eye to it?

5000000000000000Mar 1, 20184 votes

Janna has a very strong anti-pick potential. This means she'll always be good in solo queue, even if her numbers become weak. Duo queues with Janna might very well be happening, and might even be more successful than other combinations (doubtful as there are stronger combos in organized play), but I highly doubt that's what's inflating her win rate.

SwiftKitten88Mar 1, 20186 votes

{quoted}

Looking into some Heal/Shield stuff during the 8.6 cycle. Unsure what the outcome of that will be, but if we move forward with it, Janna would certainly be affected.

the issue i have with janna isnt her shield, it she is freaking impossible to hit with anything other than a huge aoe or a point and click becuase she passively moves so damn fast, skillshots be damned they will never hit her unless she walks into it. you need to lower her passive speed boost. and besides we really cant afford to lower shielding until damage is lowered, so adc items needs to be nerfed before the support likes get weaker + shielding/healing.. (and yes they do need to be weaker, adc's just need to have less damage FIRST) well every class really but adc the most by FAR

Ionian VulpixMar 1, 201823 votes

Or, you know, with Braum, Alistar, and Tahm being the top supports right now, you know, champs who need to engage, people realized that Janna, the disengage support, is the best counterpick against them.

xelakerMar 1, 201817 votes

shhh logic isn't welcome round these parts

ZJD123Mar 1, 20181 votes

{quoted}

shhh logic isn't welcome round these parts

"cause anybody who disagrees with my opinion on enchanters clearly lacks logic" - gold sona main

xelakerMar 1, 20186 votes

I usually get a hankering for a champ and play em pretty hard for a week or two. Before sona was fiddle, and before him was brand and so on. anywho: op came up in here crying about a champ that fill a role that counters the general meta of engage, engage, engage right now with piss poor reasoning. Then you run over and try and rank/champ shame me. "You're wrong because of rank and champion selection" -salty boi

Dasdi96Mar 1, 201814 votes

I don't think they will considering she has one of the biggest player bases of any league champ. If she gets gutted expect a ton of outrage from boosted d5 players.

Bouncemaster ZacMar 1, 201816 votes

{quoted}

I don't think they will considering she has one of the biggest player bases of any league champ. If she gets gutted expect a ton of outrage from boosted d5 players.

They did it to Sona, and Sona's fanbase had a habit of crying she was weak even when she was pushing 60%.

Dasdi96Mar 1, 201814 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bouncemaster Zac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EE87bgi9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-03-01T01:00:55.927+0000)

They did it to Sona, and Sona's fanbase had a habit of crying she was weak even when she was pushing 60%.

Yeah, sona's player base is one of the most entitled groups I have ever seen on the internet.