2 champs now reverted
Fizz delays doesnt stop him from all ining you at 3
Talon is fizz mk 2
Akali still does the same old things, farm safely till lvl 6 then beat your ass. Or in the case of toplane forces you to be her bitch from the get go.
Shaco is an unbalancable mess
Katarina is now a complete chore to fight against
These champs need seriously looked at
TehNACHO77 votesEhh, Kat turned out pretty well methinks.
Will say though the whole premise of the Assassin Update seems flawed. I've always had the opinion that it's an Assassin's utilities that should define them, how they influence the game as a whole rather than how they kill their target, whereas the Assassin Update primarily focused on the latter, and even worse homogenized the Assassins to an extent. No shit the update will fail if you tell every Assassin to play the same way because either they will all fail together or they will all break the game.
ModKnightsKemplar8 votesI don't disagree with your conclusion, but lemme ask these two things:
Do you think that was obvious before the update hit and do you think anyone was saying that at the time?
Can you elaborate on the types of utility you think could be used to distinguish between assassins? I actually really like Talon and Kata's identities, in theory. Kata has some "zoning" with her daggers and Talon's roam is a really cool mechanic, also. I do still wonder about champs like Leblanc and Fizz, though. I don't see obvious identities there.
Death by Glamour7 votesTalons roam isnt a new thing, kassadin amd kata have been doing it since season 2
Steelflame14 votesKata's roam is just because she likes double kill situations, her kit contributes nothing to roaming, unlike what Talon or Kassadin bring, which is actually skills that enhance their ability to roam through boosted mobility and the ability to cross several walls.
Death by Glamour2 votesNot now but it used to
Steelflame10 votesEven in the past her kit didn't really do much for roaming speed. Her only wall jump depended on a unit on the other side (a ward worked) but that made it more of an escape than roam tool, because blowing gold to roam without a sure shot of success is a bit more of a cost than using a 75 gold ward to prevent the enemy from killing you for a 300 gold lead on them.
Steelflame21 votesYes. Most assassins knew that if you took away reliability at killing a target who has complete reliability at killing opponents, it tends to be bad. That is largely due to ADCs inherently having their own problems though that honestly require a full rework to make them more kit based, and as such, outplayable, than right click based.
There are 5 basic types of utility Assassins can healthily offer a team comp without breaking their purpose as an Assassin (AKA good capability to kill isolated squishy targets). I'd say it is fine for them to have 2-3 types of utilities generally.
A. Fishing. Fizz is about the only fisherman assassin (Oh the irony), with his long range ulti being a good tool to try and fish for a pick.
B. Roam. The capability to roam across the map and catch isolated targets out is very valuable. Eve, Kha'zix (with R evo), Kayn, Talon, Kassadin stand out for this.
C. Waveclear/pushing power. The capability to carve though a minion wave can be a utility for an assassin, especially if it is paired with a high degree of safety. Kayn and Ekko are the most notable safe waveclear possessing Assassins, although Zed's clear is fairly solid as well. Noct can help contribute to some safe-ish clear, but can't do it solo. (Shadow) Kayn is definitely king though on the Waveclear front, with extremely long line waveclear that can not only 1 shot casters, but even 1 shot melee minions.
D. Teamfight potential. Most assassins innately are weaker in teamfight situations, but some can be allowed to be stronger than the average in them, usually through resets or bulk AoE damage. Katarina and Talon stand out in this, and Leblanc can kite frontlines fairly well as well.
E. CC. Needs to be more conditional/easier to avoid with longer cooldowns than most other classes, but Assassins can bring CC to a teamcomp. Fizz and Ekko are notable on this front. Noct's R is a powerful utility in a teamfight that can sow panic for a few seconds if you can split the enemy team up, and his fear can help with a single target if they can't break the tether or otherwise nullify it's impact.
TehNACHO8 votesIn regards to the Assassin's utility thing, yes. It was obvious to me and I was saying it, at least, and the thread got pretty popular at the time.
Steelflame gives a few good examples and in general Assassins need to be able to play the objective game better with more emphasis on Waveclear and Roaming, but since he's already laid out the basics I want to go on a waaay more abstract and theoretical route. I can summarize in one sentence really: the presence of that specific Assassin must change the state of the game. I also want to say that I use the term "Utilities" far beyond common examples like what type of CC they have or their Waveclear potential. I use it more like a champion's "niche", but not exactly. It will make more sense once I give some examples:
If I give you a simple Juggernaut like Mundo or Volibear, champions that have good structures in terms of their sub class but have exceedingly little personal utility, well you'd treat them like Juggernauts but you wouldn't really treat them like Mundo or Volibear. Compare this to Illaoi. Even as a Juggernaut, she has gigantic utilities between her big AOE potential, her E, and a fight changing Ultimate. If I say you're fighting a Juggernaut, your thought is "okay kite and Grievous Wounds". If I show you Mundo or Voli, your thought is "okay kite and Grievous Wounds". If I show you Illaoi though, your first thought should be somewhere between "Don't get hit by her tentacles" and "Fucking move". For a combat class champion, she doesn't even need to kill anybody to radically change the state of a given game. Assassins need to take this note.
The following 3 champions are the ones that I think truly exceed in this distinction, Evelynn, Katarina, and Kayn.
- Perma-Stealth, or Camouflage at least, is a mechanic that changes the entire nature of the game. Unless you are extremely crafty, uniquely so in such a way that really only Evelynn demands, she throws the entire map and your vision control into flux. It doesn't matter if she's even actually good at Assassinating as Old Evelynn proved, just the fact that she's in the game and you know she's in the game changes everybody's behavior around how you can't see her coming.
- There's no other champion in the game that really compares to the AOE potential that Kat has, except maybe Illaoi. Entire teamfights are won and loss off her daggers and resets, and if a team does not respect Katarina and does not do what they can to keep her offline, she makes them pay for it. Hard.
- Everything that Talon wants to be and more. Not only is his mobility ridiculous for roaming distances, he actually has the kit (and role) to fully utilize it. When playing against Kayn, players need to respect how he's capable at coming at you from any and every angle. This is on top of his Unique form mechanic and strong fundamentals like his Waveclear potential.
Virtually every other Assassin either doesn't achieve this effect at all, or has the potential to but we don't get to see it. As two quick examples, LeBlanc fits the former and Talon the latter. LeBlanc changes nothing about the game. At most, she'll scare somebody with her Ult clone (Hi Shaco) but there's literally nothing else that changes how you should react to LeBlanc than any other theoretical generic Assassin. Talon has the potential to be a ridiculous roamer and him being MIA should be a death flag for basically anybody because he can be anywhere on the map. Except, his kit isn't very conducive to achieving that ideal since his waveclear is sub par for the likes of Mid Lane to the point that he literally can't roam if he falls behind at all.
As a side note you can run this test on other classes and start to see what I mean. Many individual Juggernauts fail to change the game outside the fact that they're Juggernauts; Garen, Volibear, and Mundo do this the absolute worst. Dive Fighters too actually, if you can macro around Wukong you more or less do the same thing to Jarvan or Xin Zhao. Assassins are just the worst at this as a subclass though; so few of them get to express their idividual utilities that they all homogenize into a boring mess or an entire broken subclass.
Hyrum Graff2 votes
- Can you elaborate on the types of utility you think could be used to distinguish between assassins?
IMO, all assassins must have the ability to burst a single squishy target, else they aren't assassins. The big distinguishing factor should be what happened before and after the assassination. Here's some examples to clarify:
I'm not saying they're all well-designed champions as a whole, but I do think they are from the perspective of setup for a kill. In contrast, Akali, Diana, Kassadin, Shaco, Leblanc, Zed, Kha'zix and Ekko all do kind of the same thing: find a flank and dash onto the carry. And yes, as I'm sure someone will point out, some of those are better than others.
Everyone else kind of sucks moose juice in this department. Old Leblanc was the classic example of this problem: she'd get kills and snowball hard, but since her only strength was getting kills, she couldn't close out games and her winrate sucked (except in competitive, where they're much better at turning kills into objectives).
Where's the assassin who's good at seiging? At taking neutral objectives? At DPSing towers when uncontested? At securing or denying vision? These are the main things I'd like RIot to think about when they get back around to updating assassins.
Akali is SO HOT22 votesKatarina's rework was really good and Talon was pretty decent as well. The rest were pretty lackluster with Rengar and Leblanc being the worst and Fizz and Akali being pretty bad too.
YumaS2Astral11 votes[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yacMUAmt,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-05T20:11:05.545+0000)
Katarina's rework was really good and Talon was pretty decent as well. The rest were pretty lackluster with Rengar and Leblanc being the worst and Fizz and Akali being pretty bad too.
I think the problem with Katarina's rework is that despite it adding skill expression to her kit, and making it so she is actually strong early game, the rework ultimately failed to solve one of her main problems: Katarina is still extremely snowbally and unstoppable once she is ahead, but when she is behind, she offers nothing to a team. Compare for example, to Nidalee or Kha'Zix. When they are behind, they can still, at least (respectively) heal her teammates or slow multiple enemies (with an evolved W). All that Katarina has is damage; if she is behind, she is useless. However, if she is ahead, she will murder your entire team because she has insane AoE burst damage with resets.
Everyone praises Katarina's rework as if it was perfect, but on my opinion, all that Kat's rework did was make it so that she is at least not infamous as a braindead champion.
Terozu9 votesThats less a problem and more her entire identity as a champion.
JMoormann2 votesI'd argue that the rework made it (somewhat) better, as she is no longer 100% reliant on getting a kill to get out of a fight. Previous Kat, once she went in with E, had to take someone down or there wouldn't be a way out. New Kat at least has the potential to go for shorter trades by picking up daggers.
Hawthorn Tree18 votesAssassin rework was all about removing reliability, but being reliable is the absolute greatest strength in this game. So, they had to add back tons of cancerous mechanics that are unfun to play against and unfun to play as. See Talon and Leblanc, for example. One has 335 base movespeed and a dash that's literally shorter than most autoattacks, and the other has enough delay on her burst to be oneshot by the ADC before she can do jack shit. But at the same time, the amount of damage that they do at all stages of the game is just absolutely ludicrous. As a Talon onetrick, I can attest that a max level and build Talon does 3k+ damage to the practice dummy. Without Ignite.
Assassins get slowed down and given counterplay, fine. But then we turn around and look at supports, and all of their shields/heals are point and click abilities that go off in the time of one frame. The double standard here is just absolutely fucking insane.
2Charmnot2Charm9 votes[{quoted}](name=Hawthorn Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yacMUAmt,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-05T20:12:05.172+0000)
- Assassins get slowed down and given counterplay, fine. But then we turn around and look at supports, and all of their shields/heals are point and click abilities that go off in the time of one frame. The double standard here is just absolutely fucking insane.
Don't forget the part where riot BUFFED both marksmen and support right after the gutting of assassins.
Hawthorn Tree7 voteslol also don't forget the fact that Janna has been sitting at like 52% winrate for years even without those buffs.
Aptest2 votes[{quoted}](name=Hawthorn Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yacMUAmt,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-05T20:12:05.172+0000)
Assassin rework was all about removing reliability, but being reliable is the absolute greatest strength in this game. So, they had to add back tons of cancerous mechanics that are unfun to play against and unfun to play as. See Talon and Leblanc, for example. One has 335 base movespeed and a dash that's literally shorter than most autoattacks, and the other has enough delay on her burst to be oneshot by the ADC before she can do jack shit. But at the same time, the amount of damage that they do at all stages of the game is just absolutely ludicrous. As a Talon onetrick, I can attest that a max level and build Talon does 3k+ damage to the practice dummy. Without Ignite.
Assassins get slowed down and given counterplay, fine. But then we turn around and look at supports, and all of their shields/heals are point and click abilities that go off in the time of one frame. The double standard here is just absolutely fucking insane.
1
first of all, what is the assassin's job? it is to be very mobile and to deal single target damage in a bursty way.
the assassin's job is NOT to score a kill and escape.
i.e. the assassin is defined by what they are supposed to perform, not what they are desired to succeed at.
2
The problem with assassins one-shotting a target immediately following a long range traversal skill is that the one-shotted target is not receiving any (fun) gameplay. Generally speaking the "avoidance" game play patterns (stay with team and support) are also not fun to play out.
Additionally, if the damage is immediately following a traversal skill, most disables are not able to prevent the damage coming in. This is because for the assassin, the damage dealing is queued right after the jump, whereas the support has to generally have a target or location for whatever disables he's got, and therefore can only cast them after the arrival of the assassin.
Therefore in most cases disables are not functional against an assassin if the assassin is able to 100->0 a target immediately following a traversal skill.
3
Most assassin characters are given at least one skill that can out-tempo (= be faster) and "trump" an incoming skill. Zed's R, Fizz's E, Leblanc's dash are examples.
I do think supports should not be about protecting ADCs from assassins. But as long as they are about that, they should have skills that allow them to "trump" an assassin's kit.
I see this as fair because the assassin itself has these powers also.
4
If you could re-design supports, what kind of alternative kit do you think supports should have in general? The skill set needs to be fun for the support player specifically to enact, not just fun for his allies to have nearby.
Hawthorn Tree2 votesAssassins kill the back line. We are the squishy hunters, and the only RIGHT state for them is the olden days when a Talon would pop Youmuu's and the enemy ADC would have to Flash immediately. "Fun" for the back line shouldn't matter, because they AREN'T supposed to have fun when assassins succeed, just like how assassins have absolutely 0 fun from being CCed away from a kill. In any PVP situation, there will always be a winner and a loser, one side suffering while another laughs. And finally, there is not a single spell in this game that can effectively burst through 
's initial shield, and then through the heal from her channeling her ult. Healings and shields have NO counterplay whatsoever.
About supports specifically, I will always bring back that one scene way back in S3 World Finals, where Tabe's Sona flashed on Faker's Gragas. The play itself didn't work, but if it did, it would have won Royal Club quite a lot of ground over SKT. It also embodies what supports are for the team--they are the utility, the one with solid engages and massive vision control. Keeping your own team alive is NOT a worthwhile task, because if I wanted to play a game of kill the healer, I'd just go back to WoW.
Aptest1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hawthorn Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yacMUAmt,comment-id=000500020000,timestamp=2018-04-06T13:51:33.047+0000)
Assassins kill the back line. We are the squishy hunters, and the only RIGHT state for them is the olden days when a Talon would pop Youmuu's and the enemy ADC would have to Flash immediately. "Fun" for the back line shouldn't matter, because they AREN'T supposed to have fun when assassins succeed, just like how assassins have absolutely 0 fun from being CCed away from a kill....
That's all fun and games for you, but since you have to convince the ADC player to participate in this predator and pray fantasy you have there, what are you willing to give the ADC player, that is fun for him (not that you want to be fun for him. Has to be something that you yourself will play ADC for)?
Hawthorn Tree1 votes...did anyone ask if assassins wanted to be the bitch of tanks? Did anyone ask if assassins enjoyed being brainlessly outdueled by bruisers? Did anyone ask if assassins enjoyed supports chaining Exhaust into a point and click cc? No, because they don't have to. Like I said in the first comment, assassins are the scissor to the paper of ADC. The designated job of the assassin is to make sure that ADCs don't have fun, like how Enchanter Supports are designed so that nobody diving the back line will have any fun. It's a simple fact of the game that ADCs should not be exempt from.
Aptest1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hawthorn Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yacMUAmt,comment-id=00050002000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-06T21:23:33.184+0000)
...did anyone ask if assassins wanted to be the bitch of tanks? Did anyone ask if assassins enjoyed being brainlessly outdueled by bruisers? Did anyone ask if assassins enjoyed supports chaining Exhaust into a point and click cc? No, because they don't have to. Like I said in the first comment, assassins are the scissor to the paper of ADC. The designated job of the assassin is to make sure that ADCs don't have fun, like how Enchanter Supports are designed so that nobody diving the back line will have any fun. It's a simple fact of the game that ADCs should not be exempt from.
I think you do not understand the basis of the problem i am describing.
In general if the ADC keeps always near the support, and the support is dedicated to "make sure nobody diving the back line will have any fun" and keeps their skills and positioning to that end, than whatever diver is going to fail. This is how the game should be from your perspective.
The problem for the ADC is, that always keeping next to the support is not fun. The player wants to independently influence the game and having to receive permission for every action from that person you just met kinda sucks.
The support has exactly the same issue. Enchanter supports are very versatile in what they can do in the game but if they have to keep their positioning and skills ready for the inevitable dive, than they are locked out of the parts of the game that are the most fun.
It also creates a not very fun tug of war between the ADC and the Support player who may have differing ideas on what should be done for the benefit of the game, example the ADC wants to farm the bottom lane wave and the support would like to help with pressured mid.
When an assassin jumps on the ADC and deletes him it is obviously not fun for the ADC. But the actions leading up to that point, the preparation and counter-actions that the ADC takes to avoid this situation, these should be fun for the ADC. Otherwise the game is full of un-enjoyable moments for the ADC player.
As an assassin player, you need people to want to play classes that you can jump on. If these people, outside of the moment of you jumping on them, have to spend the game doing a bunch of not that much fun tactics to preempt you having your fun in the game, than maybe they don't want to play with you in this way.
What they will do is switch roles; The will directly compete with you on who gets to play "assassin" and you will be auto-filled to the role of ADC and let's see how you like it there.
Hawthorn Tree1 votesThe "basis of the problem" doesn't fucking exist, because there IS no actual problem. I'll say this again--in every PVP game the enjoyment of any given player is always at the cost of his enemy's enjoyment. You have fun, because you just destroyed someone else. That's how the game is. When an assassin has enough gold, vision control, and backup from team to pressure an ADC into sticking with his Support 24/7, that assassin is already succeeding. Trust me, a 0/0/0 assassin with mediocre farm walking over wards to get to the enemy ADC is not going to be all that scary at all.
Aptest1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hawthorn Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yacMUAmt,comment-id=0005000200000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-07T18:44:52.264+0000)
The "basis of the problem" doesn't fucking exist, because there IS no actual problem. I'll say this again--in every PVP game the enjoyment of any given player is always at the cost of his enemy's enjoyment. You have fun, because you just destroyed someone else. That's how the game is. When an assassin has enough gold, vision control, and backup from team to pressure an ADC into sticking with his Support 24/7, that assassin is already succeeding. Trust me, a 0/0/0 assassin with mediocre farm walking over wards to get to the enemy ADC is not going to be all that scary at all.
if this is the case why do you play talon over jannna? Janna gives you a better chance to "destroy someone else". So why do you play talon?
Hawthorn Tree2 voteslol because I started in season 3 and back then assassins were actually playable.
ZJD12313 votesdont forget zed had to be repeatedly buffed after his atrocious change in the assassin rework that removed the bonus AD on his W.
Dont Blìnk8 votesToo bad the assassin update didn't account for the ADC assassins.
Somebody Love Me2 votes[{quoted}](name=The Locker Gnome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yacMUAmt,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2018-04-05T23:07:08.519+0000)
Too bad the assassin update didn't account for the ADC assassins.
Twitch got buffed in the assassin rework and was broken for a straight year after that
Khristophoros7 votesThe problem is Riot continues to try to support the power fantasy of assassins as high mobility champs that 100-0 people within short windows of time.
btw let's not forget Diana and Kassadin cleanly delete people late game with literally 0 counterplay.
Death by Glamour12 votesDiana technically isnt an assasin, but a diver/bruiser although she is played and built as an assasin because of her absurd damage that hasnt been looked at for god knows how long
I havent seen a kassidin in idk how long so i wont comment on him, but i will say he likely does sub par damag3 compared to the rest of the roster and only gets by thanks to low mr values on squishies
I agree with you that the ethos behind assasins and also burst mages in lol (100 - 0ing) is the major problem but then again riot refuses to deal with life steap in the carry role. Perhaps it would be better for the game if assasins were used as some sort of clean up going after low hp targets half way through a teamfight rather than bursting someone down. But to get to that stage alot of work would need to be done to botlane so i dpubt such a change would happen in lols limoted life time.
Sorry for long reply
Khristophoros2 votesYeah Kassadin's base/ratios are technically not high but it doesn't matter late game when he has full build. Imagine being killed by Diana except it's Kassadin. There you go, that's Kassadin late game.
Steelflame2 votesKassadin has lower burst and no CC compared to Diana, but also has the ability to get back out and more roaming power.
Khristophoros2 votesLate game it doesn't matter. They both 100-0 squishies instantly with one rotation.
50000000000000004 votesBut late game is not a guarantee at this point. Early and mid game matters.
Khristophoros1 votesBut late game is not a guarantee at this point. Early and mid game matters.
So that justifies their design how?
50000000000000002 votesIt just means that Kassadin and Diana play different roles in early to mid game, and even late game. Just because their jobs are both 100-0ing squishies doesn't mean they play in the same way. Diana cannot get out once she's in, and this is a substantial difference between Kassadin and Diana (among other things).
And as for counterplay, warding and tracking them on the map, and locking them down and bursting them are some general counterplay tips against assassins. You can also build resistances, since assassins generally like to build flat penetration.
For Diana, the dash can be interrupted, Q can be dodged, which denies her a second cast of her ultimate. Locking her down and killing her before her rotation comes back up is another option. Her dash range isn't absurdly long, so hiding behind frontline is also an option. For Kassadin, tracking him can be more difficult, but still possible. He is very strong in the late game, and it is true that there's not as much you can do against him compared to other assassins. But he is weak in the early game, and can be put behind pretty far back. Mid game he is more slippery, but he also has a lot less burst than other assassins, and it is easier to survive him from full health.
And if we're going back to the original point of having a class of champions who can 100-0 squishies, they are important and necessary, not just for fulfilling power fantasy. High burst is necessary to counter high DPS backline (typically ADC), and high DPS is necessary to counter frontline, and frontline is necessary to counter high burst, whether it's by soaking up the damage or preventing the damage through CC. If you think they're currently imbalanced, maybe you have a point. But high burst champions who can kill other glass cannons is crucial for League, as well as many other team based PVP games.
Khristophoros1 voteshypermobile champs that 100-0 people in literally 1 undodgable rotation isn't a necessary thing. Plenty of matches of league are played without these champs.
Śhunpo1 voteshypermobile champs that 100-0 people in literally 1 undodgable rotation isn't a necessary thing. Plenty of matches of league are played without these champs.
Oh, so ADCs. Gotcha.
Khristophoros1 votesI'm not saying ADCs are fine currently. But being real, they take like 3 shots late game to kill somebody and most of them aren't hypermobile.
Malak5 votesThey have to start by nerfing damage on ADCs, which are auto attack assassins and the reason why everything else has to be strong, then reduce damage across the board on tanks and assassins
Death by Glamour7 votesDamage from carries isnt only problem, also the sustain they have with lifesteal and runes
SpecterVonBaren6 votesI miss when building lifesteal was a conscious choice an ADC had to make rather than just being something they're handed to from their starting item and runes.
Holgranth4 votesAt the end of the day have pure Assassins EVER been in a good spot in League? Assassins are dedicated Squishy Champion killers that lack in all other capacities (Pushing, taking objectives, fighting durable targets, providing utility). They are all or nothing champions with only one win condition. Kill a high value target.
The ugly fact is generic fantasy assassins don't work well in this (or most other PVP) game(s). If they are reliable they are living hell to play against. If they are unreliable why would you ever play such a restricted class?
Alto Saxophone4 votesYou're forgetting that Kha'zix doesn't even need isolation to one shot.
Carnicore3 votesPeople are still making posts about the assassins rework in 2018? Geez
You don't even have good complaints. Fizz is an objectively weak laner that shouldn't even be close to full health at level 3. Talon and Fizz are completely different assassins. Akali is getting reworked completely in a few months, and her mini-rework made her a little stronger without making her much more obnoxious. Shaco was always an unbalancable mess. Katarina is better to play against than before, she actually takes skill now and you can play around her daggers.
Vekkna6 votesFizz is an objectively weak laner that shouldn't even be close to full health at level 3.
Problem solved.
Then he kills you on sight from level 3 until the end of the game.
IT3etlWEXJ2 votesIdk why they are reverting LB and Rengar their updates were fine...
Death by Glamour7 votesidk about rengar but lb simply couldn't burst anyone before getting bursted herself
Terozu5 votesWell thats not entirely true. Crit hit leblanc was pretty good.
